hello

[blacksmith]

Can someone tell me what level of humidity should be kept in my house
for care of my hurdy gurdy please?

[Simon Wascher]

Hello,

Am 14.10.2010 um 13:51 schrieb blacksmith:

> Can someone tell me what level of humidity should be kept in my house
> for care of my hurdy gurdy please?

the gurdy preferes a good medium humidity 50% to 60% but it does not
mind slow changes in a range of 30% to 80% of *relative* *humidity*
(thats about the same range as for keeping homo sapiens sapiens sane)

This was the answer, here come some more words for thouse who are not
familiar with the topic of humidity, but interested (a gurdy player
should be interested:-) :

I marked *relative* *humidity* because they are important for the
meaning of the percentage numbers: relative humidity is the content of
water in aerially form in the air. If the water can be felt as wetness
its not humidity, its liquid water which is dangerous for the gurdy (i
am not sure about the english terms its humidity as "Luftfeuchtigkeit"
vs "Nässe").

Relative humidity is relative because its depending on the temperature
(and airpressure). Air can keep a certain amount of water in gaseous
condition at a certain temperature, the percentage is telling how much
of this potential is used.

Why all the words: any change of temperature changes the relative
humidity. This can have very nasty effects if you bring a cold gurdy
into a warm room: the water from the warm air may condense on the
gurdy into liquid water. Related effect when playing in open air
whilst the air is cooling down (in the evening): the air's potential
to keep gazeous water is decreasing, the instrument gets wet as the
water is falling out.
Other way round, if cold air gets warmed up the potential of water
that can be kept by the air is increasing, the air gets relatively
dryer - this is the basic humidity problem of cold winters: the air in
the room gets heated, and therefore relatively dryer. As the air tends
to fill its potential for gaseous water it is grabbing the humidity
out of anything around, from human to hurdy gurdy.

Kind regards, Simon

[Kazimierz Verkmastare]

Like any instrument, you aim to keep it at around the humidity at which it was built.  A good builder stabilizes his wood for years around his workshop, and all the fits and measurements are accurate at that humidity.

 

Your instrument will usually tell you when it is not happy with the humidity - the lighter and more delicately built the instrument usually the more sensitive to small shifts.  But sometimes the instrument will work well in humidity levels that are not good for it in the long term, and that's when it gets tricky.

 

Best answer - write to your builder and ask them the typical humidity in their area, or if they control it in their shop, what level they like.  Or better yet, what moisture content they like to work their woods at, especially the woods they built your instrument from.  If they don't really have an answer, here's a little trick.  You can buy a wood moisture meter at most woodworkers stores for not a lot of money, or online at places like this

 

http://www.virtualvillage.com/digital-wood-moisture-meter-tester-timber-new-4-pins-003910-012.html

 

Get one and at the same time get a piece of the same type of wood that your instrument is built from.  Unless you want to spend a whole lot of money on a pinless moisture meter, you don't want to go around pricking holes in your instrument to check moisture directly on it.  Set the sample wood somewhere average (not right by the furnace, or on top of the dehumidifier) in your house (or in your case if you want to check the level of humidity you need in it) and measure the moisture content in the wood every couple of days for two or three weeks, and see when the value stabilizes.  This can happen in as little as 3 to 4 days, or it can take longer.

 

Most wood instrument makers like to see their wood at about 6%-8% moisture content.  When I cut my own wood, I use a little solar kiln room to take my wood to about 10% - 12%, then let it get the rest of the way in my shop in ambient conditions.  In my area the average year-round humidity is in the 60-65% range, so this last 4%-6% can take some time.  When I buy I purchase from a wood supplier that air-dries his wood and lives only about 20 miles from me, so his woods are stabilized in the same environment as mine.

 

But once you adjust the humidity to where the wood sample stays at the level the builder used (or between 6% and 8% moisture if you don't have that information), most likely you will be keeping your instrument happy.

 

Just my little trick

 

Chris

 

[Jerry Sowers]

thank you for the advice :)

 

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[Jerry Sowers]

thank you for the kind help, it is good to have people that are willing to share their information. Have a great day. Jerry

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[Sergio F. Ribnikov]

Interesting data about humidity. You are an encyclopedia Simon!

 

For once, I feel I am lucky compared to EU citizens.  In Buenos Aires (Argentina), humidity is continously at a range of 50% to 75%...  so far I haven´t experieced any problems with any of my instruments (well, maybe the guitar and bouzouki/mandola strings get rusty a bit faster than when I stay in Sweden :P)

 

It would be a good idea to compile all this wisdom somehow in the gurdypedia or an actual book, like "hurdy gurdy, as taught by those who CAN play it" :D

 

cheers and keep it up.

 

Sergio

2010/10/14 Jerry Sowers <jrr...@gmail.com>

[Simon Wascher]

Hello,

Am 14.10.2010 um 15:27 schrieb Kazimierz Verkmastare:
> to take my wood to about 10% - 12%

this is absolute moisture level of the wood (amount of water in the
wood and its grains) before working with it, which is a totally
different thing from the humidity of the air around it after it is
buildt.

Kind regards, Simon

[Simon Wascher]

Hello,

forgot to mention another important case:

Am 14.10.2010 um 15:12 schrieb Simon Wascher:
> Relative humidity is relative because its depending on the
> temperature (and airpressure).

The mentioned airpressure is not a theoretical problem in two
realistic cases:

if one lives in areas high above sea level like Colorado for example
and when flying with the hurdy gurdy: airpressure in airliners is
similarily low.
With low air pressure the boiling point of water is sinking, so the
water gets gaseous earlier than usually. This leads to the effect that
the moisture in the instrument (which is liquid water) is decreasing.

kind regards, Simon

[Kazimierz Verkmastare]

You're right.  Sorry.  I'll go back to lurking.

 

Chris

[Paul Howland]

Excellent idea! I just added an article to Gurdypedia
(www.gurdypedia.com) to summarize the suggestions made on this
thread. I also created another one to summarize the suggestions
people had for fixing loose tangents.

Paul

On Oct 14, 3:43 pm, "Sergio F. Ribnikov"

[Simon Wascher]

Hello

Am 15.10.2010 um 15:43 schrieb Paul Howland:
> Excellent idea! I just added an article to Gurdypedia
> (www.gurdypedia.com) to summarize the suggestions made on this
> thread.

http://www.gurdypedia.com/Gurdypedia/Maintenance/Entries/2010/10/15_Humidity_and_the_hurdy-gurdy.html

please add the missing infos about quoted authors. If you go on using
my texts to the mailinglist without any referece I will stop posting
here.

Simon Wascher

[Kazimierz Verkmastare]

You don't need to worry about citations for me, if you use my stuff.  If it does not belong to someone else (I will cite reference if it does, some folks are sticky about that) to someone else and I have posted it to this list, consider it public domain.  95% of everything I know came from people selflessly sharing, I might have put a few of the things they knew together in a way they didn't, or combined a couple of friends teachings, but for me to claim ownership of the stuff I post or suggest (especially on this topic) is just about as silly as me claiming ownership of French Toast even though I occasionally make some and serve it.  What I post or suggest is almost 100% of the time not original 'intellectual property', even if the arrangement might be unique.  In my mind, even if I don't get one bit of recognition, if the person using it got something of value out of it, it's a win.

 

And if you must reference, make sure that anything referenced to me is actually something I said.  Not cut up, edited, or remixed.  I do a most excellent job of being misunderstood and putting my foot in my mouth as it is all on my own, don't need help.

 

Chris

[Paul Howland]

Sorry to have upset you Simon. Wasn't my intention. I don't think I
quoted anything verbatim, I tried to simplify the language and combine
and rationalize where necessary. However, if you want to email me in
private and let me know which words you want attributed to you, I'll
be glad to oblige. Same goes for anyone else on this forum. I did
make it clear that the ideas were not mine, but none of them struck me
as so original that it was worth citing people's names for every quote
- particularly as they were posted in a public discussion thread. But
hey, I would recommend that you're not so quick to assume the worst in
people. Life's much nicer if you don't assume everyone has bad
intentions.

[Paul Howland]

Thanks Chris!