g/c or d/g stringing newby questions

[Barbara Currier]

Hi, folks,

I'm sure people at OTW will have some opinions to share, but I have just run into this and I'm curious.  I videotaped some of the HGers playing in Seattle at the Folklife Festival a couple of years back, some as a group on the boulevard, shall we say, and some in the French dance class. Since having my HG up to playing condition this year, I never got back to the tapes until now. First thing I saw was that the folks on the street (RT, Penny, et al) appear to be playing in D/G and the folks in the dance class were playing G/C. I wanted to play along with the players on the street, so, what the heck, couldn't hurt any to de-tune for a bit. I think my chanterelles were happier going down to d from g.

Questions:

1) Is an instrument being a D/G or G/C just a matter of preference and string diameters, or is there something about the instrument which dictates what it is? Looking at the key arrangement, I thought it was a G/C, as it corresponded to the piano keyboard and D/G layout must be different, but now I don't think so.

2) Could it be that I should stay in G/C, but use a lighter diameter string to lessen the tension on the chanterelles? I have Savarez oiled gut 0.94 mm / 0.0370 inch strings. The silver on gut (pul 1000?) gros bourdon, btw, is not happier tuned down. Or, should I just suck it up and learn my instrument better?

3) I don't know if Alden is about, he may be busy getting ready for this week. At OTW 3 years ago, I bought this set of strings from him, before my HG was refurbished. He was familiar with my instrument and I had it there, so I trusted his experience and judgment (still do :^) and bought what he gave me. Do you think he chose a set to make it a G/C because that was what the instrument was, because it was easier for a newby to read music on a G/C, or because that's what most people play?

Of course, I could find out that I've been tuning my chanterelles an octave too high. Don't think so, an octave lower is rather slack and muffled-sounding. Newby perils.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Barbara

PS - thanks to all the folks who talked about rosin. I tried different ones we had in the house. I had bought a dark, disk-shaped one at the '06 OTW auction, thinking that must be what HG players used. However, when I tried the lighter one we use for our psalteries, I didn't have nearly the problems I'd been having.

[MITC...@aol.com]

Generally the same instrument can be used for either tuning, but it is not practical to switch back and forth frequently. Generally speaking, the only physical difference between a gurdy tuned to GC and one tuned to DG consists of the gauges of the various strings and the notes that they're tuned to. So if you'd rather your instrument was in the other tuning, you can change it over. (Note that some HG's seem to "prefer," that is, work a bit better, in one or the other tuning--Roz's Boudet never seemed to settle down until it was in DG. But generally any gurdy could be set up for either tuning, and it's not a big deal to do the conversion yourself.)

 

As for switching tunings on the fly, it's a pretty bad idea unless you have an instrument that's set up for that. Such a two-tuning setup would be a 3-chanter gurdy with either 2 trompettes or a trompette "capo" or "tuning flag" arrangement such as Cali and Alden offer that switches the trompette between C and D notes quickly. Retuning a 2-chanter gurdy on the fly a lot will destroy strings quickly or worse.

 

Another approach for playing regularly in both tunings is to have one HG in each tuning, and bring them both to the session or dance. That's what Roz and I do. (Actually she's got two gurdies, I have only a DG gurdy but can play GC bagpipes or button accordion when the session switches over to GC). This approach also makes luthiers happy!!

 

The reality of French trad is that if you want to play with other people, they will play in GC sometimes when all you have is a DG, or vice versa. There's some tradition and history that favors one tuning or the other for certain kinds of music (folky Auvergne music is supposed to be GC, dark snarly Berry/Bourbonnais music is supposed to be DG), but often it just comes down to personal preference and what the other players have with them. You can be stubborn and lobby regularly for your favorite tuning and sit on your hands while your friends play, or you can come to the dance or session expecting that either tuning could happen at any time and be prepared accordingly. I strongly encourage the latter approach at the session we run.

 

Mitch

 

--------------------------------------------
Mitch Gordon
www.frenchtradmusic.com
--------------------------------------------

 

 

barbara...@gmail.com writes:

Hi, folks,

I'm sure people at OTW will have some opinions to share, but I have just run into this and I'm curious.  I videotaped some of the HGers playing in Seattle at the Folklife Festival a couple of years back, some as a group on the boulevard, shall we say, and some in the French dance class. Since having my HG up to playing condition this year, I never got back to the tapes until now. First thing I saw was that the folks on the street (RT, Penny, et al) appear to be playing in D/G and the folks in the dance class were playing G/C. I wanted to play along with the players on the street, so, what the heck, couldn't hurt any to de-tune for a bit. I think my chanterelles were happier going down to d from g.

Questions:

1) Is an instrument being a D/G or G/C just a matter of preference and string diameters, or is there something about the instrument which dictates what it is? Looking at the key arrangement, I thought it was a G/C, as it corresponded to the piano keyboard and D/G layout must be different, but now I don't think so.

2) Could it be that I should stay in G/C, but use a lighter diameter string to lessen the tension on the chanterelles? I have Savarez oiled gut 0.94 mm / 0.0370 inch strings. The silver on gut (pul 1000?) gros bourdon, btw, is not happier tuned down. Or, should I just suck it up and learn my instrument better?

3) I don't know if Alden is about, he may be busy getting ready for this week. At OTW 3 years ago, I bought this set of strings from him, before my HG was refurbished. He was familiar with my instrument and I had it there, so I trusted his experience and judgment (still do :^) and bought what he gave me. Do you think he chose a set to make it a G/C because that was what the instrument was, because it was easier for a newby to read music on a G/C, or because that's what most people play?

Of course, I could find out that I've been tuning my chanterelles an octave too high. Don't think so, an octave lower is rather slack and muffled-sounding. Newby perils.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Barbara

[Barbara Currier]

Thanks, Mitch. This is very helpful. I did not intend to switch back and forth, just trying it out today playing with the video. 

Maybe I'll just have to throw spare change in a jar until I can afford a modern hg for whichever key M. Bassot (my current HG) doesn't end up being. I suspect he'll stay G/C.

Barbara

[Jon Redpath]

I think one possible reason that some instruments sound perfect in a specific key is that the instruments own resonance is close to or matches that note that the string is tuned to. I have a double HG ( modern ) which has both a D and G set of chantrelles. In D it sounds OK, nothing wrong but no sparkle. In G however it comes really alive and has really smooth brass like sound not dissimilar to a trombone.  I have another conventional six stringed instrument which I keep in D as it does not sound so good in G. If you really want to switch around I can recommend a double instrument. They are not so much more expensive and there is only one to find the space for ! --- On Sun, 13/9/09, Barbara Currier <barbara...@gmail.com> wrote:

[MITC...@aol.com]

Actually I have committed the cardinal sin of retuning back and forth between DG and GC for a few days without changing strings. Penny Cloud teaches gurdy at Lark Camp, and to get everyone in the class in the same tuning she settled on GC last year, which was the tuning I didn't have. On my DG I pitched my trompette down from D to C (no problem) and my low chanter from D up a fourth to G (which it didn't like, but tolerated), and left my high chanter unused on the hook at its normal pitch. I think I may have retuned back to DG for a couple of the sessions, and back to GC for the daily class. It got me through the week (after which I retuned everything to DG where it belonged), but it's definitely not something I would do often. Mea culpa...

 

Mitch

 

--------------------------------------------
Mitch Gordon
www.frenchtradmusic.com
--------------------------------------------

 

barbara...@gmail.com writes:

Thanks, Mitch. This is very helpful. I did not intend to switch back and forth, just trying it out today playing with the video. 

Maybe I'll just have to throw spare change in a jar until I can afford a modern hg for whichever key M. Bassot (my current HG) doesn't end up being. I suspect he'll stay G/C.

Barbara

[lod...@calwisp.com]

For my first two trips to OTW (which used to be rather more G/C-centric) I
tuned to G/C, which involved replacing a chantrelle string, but my Pajot
was never happy in that tuning, and the method of setting the nut by
placing the octave tangent perpendicular to the string couldn't be used as
the top fifth or so of the keys couldn't be made sharp enough. Tuning it
back to re-sol made such a difference that my long-range plan now includes
a second instrument for sol-doh.

- Martin

[Barbara Currier]

Thanks, guys. I'll be thinking about all this for a time. Sometimes, I think I ought to go D/G because I'm an alto and would like to sing with my instrument from time to time. I think the lower tuning would suit me better. 

Off to OTW in the morning, woo hoo!

Barbara

[Augusto de Ornellas Abreu]

You can always get a tenor HG in GC, or a GC with an octave chanter (an octave below, I mean). My Spanish HG is exactly like that and it sings beautifully.

[Harry Wass]

My bosch is a three chanterelle instrument, i run two low G's and a
high g it allows me some great combinations and find I'm using the low
G's on there own quite often. I mainly play medieval music but find it
works well for 'modern' tunes as well.

--
Harry Wass
<http://medieval.instruments.googlepages.com>
medieval.i...@gmail.com