hmong
meremen...@hotmail.com
know some of you guys can't read hmong but your hmong, you can't
change that. Go learn your hmong. If you guys don't want that then
dont call this hmong united methodist youth. Plus bring back the
dress code rule. I'm not telling you guys to go GQ on me but dress
nicely. This is my suggestion. You can love it or hate it!
Praise_H...@yahoo.com
totally up for that. My band and I will be joining everyone up at Ca
Sab HUMY camp this summer, and we'll be bringing a few Hmong songs,
some which we wrote ourselves. I don't think it's that the Hmong
United Methodist Youth don't sing Hmong songs...I believe the youth
will sing whatever the worship leader leads them to singing. I support
singing Hmong songs to praise our God, but do understand that times
are changing, and sadly, many from this generation and upcoming
generation youth members are losing their ability to communicate in
Hmong. If this is the case, singing Hmong songs will not help or make
our worship service any more effective. More than anything, I believe
that praise & worship requires communication and connection with God.
If the group we're working with communicates and connects best with
God in english, then that's what we'll be using.
Also, I don't think we're obligated to sing in Hmong because we are
Hmong. The practice of the Hmong language shouldn't have to be a duty
of the church. Being Hmong and being Christian don't really have any
special connection. Learn and practice Hmong on your own time...I
encourage this. But when we're at our worship service, it doesn't
really matter what language we use. Remember, our identity is
Christian before it is Hmong. Worship in spirit and in truth, that's
all it takes. Music, language, clothing, etc...none of that is
necessary to worship. I'll tell you this as a worship leader...most of
my worship is done when I am off the stage. I say all this because I
believe that the HUMY staff members and my band...we're trying to
promote honest and true worship. Knowing Hmong and using it is
important, but that's not what we're trying to accomplish right now. I
believe that's more of a personal accomplishment or goal.
As for the dress code, I'm not apart of the HUMY staff, so I can't
speak for them. But personally, I believe in proper apparel. Dressing
nicely can actually be quite dangerous. I say this because...why do we
typically dress up nicely? We want to look good...we others to look at
us positively...we want to be attractive...we want to be
respectful...we want to show off some new outfit, etc. All of those
are a possibility. And this is dangerous, because it eventually brings
some sort of self-glorification. We shouldn't focus too much about
making ourselves look good, when our purpose as Christians is to
ultimately make God look good...better than all else. But, we should
still dress appropriately. Finding the balance and control is the hard
part. But personally...if jeans and a plain t-shirt is the best you
can do, then by all means, come worship with us. Even if we do end up
having a dress code...as leaders, mentors, fellow brothers and
sister...how can we make someone leave the worship service just
because they're not dressed up accordingly to the dress code? If we
ended up doing that...then I believe we fail at what we're trying to
accomplish that week...and that is bringing others to experiencing
Jesus.
Well, Mr Meremen_Ball, I hope you don't let language and apparel
hinder your worship. That is ultimately my concern. Hopefully, we will
meet at camp this summer. Please, pray for it all. And if I said
something that didn't make sense, please let me know. Also, if I was
in any way offensive, I apologize. Take care and God bless!
-Matt Xiong
meremen...@hotmail.com
I understand your side of the story but keep in fact that God created
you to be Hmong and not White. I hear all these youth wanting to be
more liberal. They want to see changes. I just want camp to stay
more conservative. I can't help it but I'm old school. Being to
liberal minded can turn us into the wrong direction.
Praise_H...@yahoo.com
english doesn't make us more white than Hmong. How the service program
goes doesn't have very much to do with being either. Being Hmong does
influence how we worship, though. Black people worship in english.
They're not being white. It really is kinda sad that a lot of Hmong
people are losing the culture and language, but that's really a
concern of the Hmong as a whole, not so much the church. Fact is, this
generation communicates better in english. If using english more is
what it takes for this generation to experience Jesus, then so be it.
More people understand english than Hmong now anyways.
As for Liberals and Conservatives...I'm kind of stuck in between these
two. I haven't sided yet, but I believe that we should just follow
scripture. Use the guidelines that God has given us, and after that,
just do what works best. Either way, the system and government will
always be somewhat flawed, i believe. Therefore, changes will always
have to be made as time goes by. God is the only unchanging
entity...this is because He's already perfect. What is not already
perfect can always be changed. You said that being too liberal minded
can turn us into the wrong direction. I believe that as long as we
obey the Word of God, it doesn't matter if we're liberal or
conservative, because we won't go the wrong direction if we're headed
towards God.
-Matt Xiong
meremen...@hotmail.com
culture. Plus I dont think God has ever change. Why do we have to
follow and worship in English? Well then this raise the question.
Are we christian b/c of the white man?
> > liberal minded can turn us into the wrong direction.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Praise_H...@yahoo.com
because we're not perfect like God is. And we're not Christian because
of white people. We're Christian because we were created by God, and
because we follow after Jesus. Christianity didn't even start with the
white people. We're followers of Christianity, not white people. We
speak english because we live in the United States. Don't you think
it's a little selfish for the Hmong people to emphasize worshipping in
Hmong when the majority of the younger generation no longer understand
it as much anymore? I believe we should accomodate the younger
generation by helping them understand the Word of God as best as they
can. With the older generations, yes, continue using Hmong. Even
continue using Hmong for the younger generations, but we can't be
against the use of english. It'll turn away so many young ones.
Nothing against the Hmong language, but not many younger youth members
can hear a 40 minute sermon in Hmong and understand/remember it all.
In my church, our pastor preaches in Hmong, but translates every idea/
thought into english so that the younger ones can understand too. This
method is pretty effective. Again, I support the use of both
languages. It just seems like you just want to worship in Hmong. And
it seems like you're against white people. That's just my
interpretation. Using English and the white people, don't really have
a big connection in the Hmong church. It's more because we're Hmong-
Americans, and we live in America, an English speaking country. This
is what I think.
ps.What is your name and where are you from?
-Matt
meremen...@hotmail.com
I'm not a racist okay. This is the reason why lot of hmong christian
gets hated by other hmong people. Yeah, we were created by God but
lets not forget the fact that we are Hmong to. You wanna know why the
younger generations dont care to speak hmong b/c of the fact you just
listed. They feel its just easier, whoever said being a christian is
easy. I'm not here to argue.. I'm here to suggest what I feels
missing at camp. Its just not the worshiping in Hmong that I'm worry
about, its the fact that its to liberal at camp. I see lot of youth
doing wrong things at camp but they dont get punish b/c of the
forgiving factor. I'm not saying lets not forgive but there has to be
a clear cut line of whats wrong and right! Camp is way to easy going
now days. The world is harsh out there, we got to face that no matter
what? Yeah camp is a good place to have fun and relax but life isnt
like that nor is church. Lot of people goes home thinking of church
that way, thats why when they get home, they tend to not want to go to
church b/c its not fun. What I'm trying to say is that people have to
take the good with the bad. I know what yall going to say now,"why
does he care what other people do, its between them and God," but if I
go "forget those people, let them rot in hell", then people will be
like"oh, hes so mean and he calls himself a christia,isnt he suppose
to help out his fellow brothers and sisters?" its a lose situation
either way. I don't know if you know me that well Matt but I've been
to this camp way longer than you and I've seen how liberal we've got.
My name is Vong Khang and I'm from wausau. I'm sorry if anyone gets
offended but this is how I feel. It may sound like I'm judging but we
got to take the good with the bad in life!
Vong Khang
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
meng yang
like as if it was rosie odonell and Donald Trump going at it! :p But
anyways, My name is Meng Yang from Saint Paul and my opinion and suggestion
of this concern/situation first is that "What is the Hmong Culture?" For
all i know, it's our language, our heritage, our tradition, etc. But the
question is, what is the main focus on our Hmong culture? <<--i believe the
main theme in our culture is "shamanism" and our language. But then
personally and this is my view, that all this language/culture/tradition
etc., doesnt matter at all in the Kingdom of Heaven. Don't you think by
having all this is "PRIDE????" Does Jesus not teach us not to have pride??
Does Jesus not teach us to have Self-Glorificaiton or glorification of men?
I personally believe that by having all this debate and arguments really
shows that the Church is falling apart. And the unification that we're
suppose to have "In Christ" is really ripping us apart. I, as a new
generation, do not want the church to split as our fathers have. We learn
from them and show that we're different and that the issues of money does
not break us apart, that language does not break us apart, that having
different clans does not break us apart, and that we should lay down our
PRIDE in everything and that the only thing in life that really really
matters is "HIS GLORY" amen?
Oh and another thing about the Hmong language. If you have read the Old
testament before, you would know the story of the "Tower of Babel." Just
like how the people were trying to build up the city, just like how we are
trying to build the church today, they let pride overcome them and had
arguments and disagreements on things. Then God came down and mixed up the
language so then no one can understand eachother. For them even when they
spoke the same language they still didnt get along. So in our case, Dont we
see a parallel? We're suppose to be ONe body but if we let culture and
tradition get in the way, then we mind as well not be the body. we'll mind
as well do our own things and go our own ways. But then thats not God's
plan for us as followers of Christ, He wants us to be the Body and thats why
Jesus died on the cross, so that we would be free from all the rules and
traditions that we used to live by. Jesus came down to break man's
tradition and that he gave us a new covenant, which is to Love our God and
love our neighbors.
Your Brother in Christ Jesus,
Meng Yang
_________________________________________________________________
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Joe mama
I'm really glad that your taking your time and communicating with us
all; it is definitely what we all need more of as a body of believers.
Even though I respect you, I can't say I agree with you in a lot of
areas. Not that I think I know better then you, but because I think a
lot of what you are expressing is your own opinion, and honestly, I
don't respect your opinion. Please understand that I also don't
respect my own opinion. What I try to do is respect only one opinion,
whether I agree with it or not; and that of course is the opinion of
our Father in Heaven.
I do agree that it is very important that we do not lose some of our
hmong identity because it was truly the gift of a creative and loving
God to make us hmong, but I also believe that his greater will is for
us to be more like him, to be so much like him that we become his
children, a title that surpasses being hmong in the kingdom of God.
You must also agree that there are some limits on our hmong culture in
terms of language. There exist thousands of more words in the English
vocabulary then in the hmong vocabulary. What this means is that in
English there is a greater opportunity to express certain
understandings and concepts that would otherwise be very difficulty in
the hmong language. And I believe that you would also agree that it is
more important that Christ is preached and is understood then it is to
have the comfort in knowing that you have a message in hmong that
maybe constricted.
As part of the leadership involved at camp, I can tell you that our
goal is not to make camp good, or fun, or even to have a good theme
and message; all of that is only a small part of the bigger picture.
The bigger picture for the cabinet members and I is the same as that
of all who are to come and follow Christ. Our goal is simply to obey
the will of God. His will for our personal lives and his will for
HUMY.
I think the question in regards to camp should not be whether what we
are doing is more liberal or more conservative, but surely, is what we
are doing more Christ like; more of what God would truly want us to be
doing. It is because of this question that we made some of the changes
last year that we did.
I do have to apologize though. There were some people who did openly
break the rules last year, and went unpunished. I understand very well
that it was my responsibility to discipline them, and that I, to a
degree, choose not to. I know that because of that, I face the
possibility for more misbehavior. I can only pray that God will
continue to help us, as he faithfully did last year, to keep everyone
in order and accountable.
Alright, that's enough for now. Sorry about the run-on sentences. I
hope that you will openly try to understand us better, but more
importantly, keep yourself open to God.
Your servant,
Joseph
Praise_H...@yahoo.com
believe you are. I just noticed your passion for the Hmong culture and
tradition, and I respect that. Before I forget, I want to thank you
for sharing your thoughts with me. I really want to know where all of
your hearts are at before I join everyone at camp again this year.
I've changed a lot, myself, since last time I was there.
I do notice that a lot of Hmong Christians are hated by Hmong non-
believers. I think this is where we Christians have gone wrong. I
don't think it has to do much with language and whether we're liberal
or conservative. I think it's because we fail to show them the same
kind of love that we show each other. We don't really feel comfortable
loving our non-christian brothers and sisters as we do with our fellow
Christians. But, I'm sure there are a lot of other factors that
contribute to this issue. I've recently began seeing that some non-
Christians don't like Christians because Christians make non-
christians seem like such bad people. No one wants to be friends with
someone who makes them feel like everything they do is a sin.
Truthfully, I think Christians live in more sin. I say this because
becoming a Christian opens your eyes to what is good and what is bad.
Our knowledge of good and evil expands when we dive in the Word of
God. Therefore, we realize that more of what we used to do, been
doing, and are doing can be sinful. Because of what we know, we are
held accountable and have no excuse for our sins. I think the mercy of
God is extended out to non-Christians even more, because eventhough
they sin, they don't know the consequence and don't know when they've
gone wrong. They are blind. Our purpose as the ones who see, must be a
light to them. We need to shine the light and love of God, not point
fingers and condemn. This is where we've failed many many times.
I've done some researching, and I've come to understand that there
have been some changes and new rules to camp. I also found out that
there are certain individuals who are strongly against this. I see how
some of you can feel left out. This is very difficult for the HUMY
staff, because they need to accomodate the needs of EVERYONE in HUMY
as best as they can, while at the same time, obey and follow the
commands of God. Fact is, the job of the HUMY staff is not to please
everybody. It is impossible to make everybody happy. They should still
know what the needs are for humy as a whole. Don't expect all needs to
be met though. I think the local church should meet more needs than
camp anyway. The local church is there for you every day/week/month.
HUMY camp only gets one shot each year. They'll try to see a certain
need, and tackle that. Don't rely on camps to get everything done.
Personal growth in faith happens most in your alone time with God. If
you're a sports fan, camps are more like huddles. It's when a team/
group gathers together to discuss methods, plan victories. After camp,
it is our responsibility to put it all to practice and go from there.
I think that whether we're becoming liberal or staying conservative is
not really that important. Camp is a huddle for all of us to plan
victories. We strategize how to becoming better soldiers of God, and
how to win the lost. Whether we're liberal or conservative doesn't
really matter...how awesome is it to bring a friend to Christ!? Would
you really be disappointed in that friend if he suddenly became a
liberal Christian? Why would you?...he's a Christian now...it's a
victory for Jesus. It's our victory. It's surely worth celebrating. In
the Bible, it says that when one person accepts Jesus as his savior,
all of the angels up in Heaven sing and celebrate together. I don't
think they really care about anything else. Man...I continuously
attend these camps because it's the best thing in the world to see
lives touched and changed; to see the lost be found. This is what
camps do. I'm sure your church already has hmong services and follows
under conservative laws. That's totally fine too, but this is a camp,
not a church.
So, I just suggest we go to camp with hearts and minds ready to hear
some game plans; ready to conquer death with Jesus. That's what we're
living for...for the glory of God. If God calls you to glorify Him a
certain way, then do so. If a fellow brother or sister glorifies God
another way, then just let him/her. As long as it is in spirit and in
truth, and not self-glorifying, then I think it's fine. Vong, I don't
mean to just be talking to you. Everything I've said, is meant for
everybody to read. So, Vong, don't feel targetted. I dont think anyone
is really right or wrong here. You mentioned something about the
judicial system at camp. There really should be some kind of system at
work, and you're right, something has to be done about those who
misbehave. Whatever they chose to do as far as consequences go, it
MUST be approached with love. Like you said, the world is harsh.
That's right...but the camp and Christian environment exists so that
we can retreat away from that harsh world. It wouldn't be right to
practice the harshness of the world at a place where we learn how to
love. We already know that the world is tough. What we don't know is
how to love it.
Also, there will always those who come to camp for the wrong reasons.
There also be those who don't know their reason for attending camp.
Everyone has their own purposes for being there. For those who go for
the wrong reason, we can only pray that they get something out of it.
My pastor, when he was younger, went to camp to meet girls. Instead,
during the week, he heard something that just stuck with him, and that
ultimately changed him forever. Let's just pray that everyone has the
opportunity to be effected by the spirit of God. Whether people are
there for whatever reason, we must provide the opportunity for them.
Sorry, I've said so much, but so much has been stirring in my heart
ever since the first post you wrote. I've put much thought into every
word though, so please read it all, and just pray. Take the time to
talk to God, and He'll reveal things to you. God Bless!
-Matt
On Apr 12, 8:28 pm, meremen_ball...@hotmail.com wrote:
meremen...@hotmail.com
with the trends? I better not chatch yall wearing hosilter, a&f or
any high price clothes? That dont matter in heaven either right?
What are you guys planning to become in life? I hope no one wants to
make money b/c that dont matter in heaven either? Joe you like
favoring thats why you dont punish. You want everyone to be your
friend. Your a leader, your not suppose to worry about that? Plus
last year when I came visit at camp and walk over to the girls side to
look for pang, you came up to me and warn me not to do that while tou
sher and kou was driving arond everywhere? Why dont you tell them to
stop? favoritism right? Say what you want joe but thats how i see it
and i dont like you opinions either!
Vong Khang
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
Joe mama
what you say. Your words seem to have a lot of anger and
misunderstanding.
If you really want to know, yes I do want everyone to be my friend.
Not so I can be favored among everyone, but so that we might work
together for the Glory of our God. Was it not Jesus who first called
us his friend if we obey his commands? Does he not want to be a friend
to all? "You are my friends if you do what I command. I no longer call
you slaves, because a master doesn't confide in his slaves. Now you
are my friends, since I have told you everything the Father told
me." (John 15: 14-15)
If my goal was to be favored, then I wouldn't be a Christian in the
first place. For I know how unpopular the true teachings of Jesus
really are, and I have come to the fact that if I continue down the
path of truth, I will face much persecution.
Now I can be honest in saying that I do try and keep up my appearance
at times. That I do exercise and keep up with my health. As it says in
1 Timothy 4:8, "physical training is good, but training for godliness
is much better..." If you truly knew me you would know that I also train
for Godliness, that I battle for Holiness. In regards to clothes, I do
have expensive clothing, not because I bought it, but because my
brothers have so much excess that there is also enough for me. I do
not pursue clothing as a possession that I am trying to gain more of
though, because as you have stated, it doesn't matter. I have grown up
with hand-me-downs, so I am content with what ever I have, whether
expensive clothing or old used clothing. If you lived with me daily
you would know that I am as modest in my dress, but still, a little
self-conscious.
As from my career, I am pursuing God's will for me to become a Pastor.
Whether he wants me to continue down that path, I don't know, but I
believe with faith, that that is what he is calling me to do, even
when my flesh often questions it. You have stated correctly that money
doesn't matter, so am I saying that we should all stop pursuing our
personal ambitions and become ministers? No I'm not saying that, God
is. The original meaning for a minister, if I am correct, is to be a
servant. We as followers of Christ are called devote all that we are
to Him, (Heart, soul, might, possessions, and ambitions) all the while
loving and serving one another as ourselves. These are not my ideas on
how to live, these is God's Idea.
Speaking on favoritism, I do have favorites, just because I am human
and my eyes are not as great as that of our God. But you used a
horrible example to demonstrate my favoritism. Tousher was allowed to
drive because I allowed him to. Since I knew he had a car, I granted
him use of it under the agreement that he would transport the many
fans that we used for cooling between the chapel and cafeteria. And to
testify to him, He did his duty. In regards to Kou, he was suffering
from a gout in his foot and requested permission to use his car, in
which, considering the circumstances I agreed. If I am wrong for
allowing either of them permission to drive, then I am wrong and will
accept what ever punishment is due me.
The reason I gave you a warning and seemed to acknowledge your
breaking of our rules when it seemed that I was ignorant to everyone
else's, is because right before I spoke to you, I had just spent
around 15 minutes running around on the girls side because I heard a
report about a guy in a girls cabin. I was later informed that it was
just a guy over on the girl's side. Even later, I found out that it
was you; I knew that you had just got to camp that day and simply took
a walk, and that is why I gave you a warning. Again, I apologize if I
should not have.
I really don't wait this to seem like I'm a glorifying myself and
showing you how much better I am then you, but I think you really need
to know who I am so that you can come to understand why I say what I
say, and why I do what I do.
Those who want to do the will of our Father in heaven will know if
what I am doing is my will or the will of God.
Your servant,
Joseph
kou1...@yahoo.com
>From looking on the outside in, it doesnt seem too healthy. I've read
almost everything that everyone is saying, and seems like this is
causing more problems than solving anything. How about I try to
summarize everything up into a nice little ball by saying we're
Hmong.. Yes we are and will always be, but worship God the way YOU
yourself feels. Will this summary 'please' everyone and can we drop
the topic and move on? I don't feel this is healthy.
Kou
meremen...@hotmail.com
I aint angry man.. You just dont understand me thats it. Buts it cool
dude. I rather worship God by myself. It doesnt take a group to get
in to heaven. I agree with Kou, lets drop this. Plus I'm just
suggesting this for camp and get bashed on by yall? No need for this
nonsense. I'm sorry if yall got offended. I'll praise God my way and
you do it your way. I'm a Christian not a HUMY.
Vong Khang
Praise_H...@yahoo.com
Amen, to that bro...We're Christians no matter what. No matter how we
worship...if we're worshipping God in a Christ-glorifying and God-
commanded way, then we're doing ok. I thought this was a pretty good
discussion, actually. A lot of it should have been heard by more
people...it wasn't meant just for the few of us. Vong...I didn't mean
to bash on you at all. I heard your opinion, and I gave mine. I think
we both have pretty good thoughts on all of this, and neither one of
our thoughts should be disregarded. I'm sorry I didn't get to join you
all last year, so I don't know how things went at last camp. Hm...I
think it's a good thing for you to express your thoughts and
suggestions Vong. Some people just take it differently if you express
it in frustration and anger, which you may not be all. I wasn't
offended by anything that was said, but if I was on the humy staff, I
probably would be. I don't think we're here to offend any body, so
just becareful. If certain words don't have to said in order to
express a thought, then don't say it. We don't want to point fingers
and all. It's just a little unprofessional as adults and leaders. I'm
sorry Joe, but this goes for you too. The important thing to do now is
to forgive one another, and yes, move on. Not just move on...but learn
from this experience and grow. Otherwise, this might as well come back
to haunt all of us. Whoa...this will be a short post for me. Sorry for
all those paragraphs. The purpose was to be insightful and
informative...not intrusive and argumentative. We really do need to
work on our Hmong...but that may not be the duty and responsibility of
the church. We also do need to watch out for misbehavors and trouble-
makers...but more than anything, we need to treat them with the love
we expect them to show us. That's all I'll say for now...unless the
next post calls me for more words...ahaha. Have a nice weekend
everybody! God bless!
-Matt