Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead.
Paul Wharton
it all wrong. They are chanting false mantras to a nonexistent "God"
and a human corpse that has been dead for hundreds of years. If
muslims want to speak of such concepts they should get it right and
join me in reciting:
"Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
Paul Wharton
American Objectivist
Dan Lind
Paul, have you stopped being an Objectivist Capitalist Medicine
Promoter and are now once again an American Objectivist?
Or am I reading too much into your change in self-description?
Dan Lind
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Paul Wharton
>Paul Wharton wrote:
>
> > These muslims in the Middle East, and wherever such may be found, have
> > it all wrong. �They are chanting false mantras to a nonexistent "God"
> > and a human corpse that has been dead for hundreds of years. �If
> > muslims want to speak of such concepts they should get it right and
> > join me in reciting:
>
> > "Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
>
> > Paul Wharton
> > American Objectivist
>
> Paul, have you stopped being an Objectivist Capitalist Medicine
> Promoter and are now once again an American Objectivist?
>
> Or am I reading too much into your change in self-description?
>
economic progress, in the long run, than one who focuses on micro-
issues, but then sits back and watches the greatest country that has
ever existed be delivered into the hands of islamic totalitarians.
Paul Wharton
American Objectivist
Dan Lind
Thank you. It's clear to me now.
Dan Lind
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Manda Ruby
>
> "Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
>
> Paul Wharton
> American Objectivist
But there are 1.8 Billion Muslism today and this is what they say in
"Who Speaks For Islam?: What a Billion Muslims Really Think
(Hardcover)
" by John Esposito
The "The moderate majority speaks, April 13, 2009" review makes some
good points:
"Here readers have finally been given the unglamorous truth, and that
is that the US and the West are not engaged in a life and death war of
civilization with the East. Instead we are faced with a people that we
don't understand, and instead of our media and political leaders
providing us with accurate descriptions of the Muslim people we are
provided caricatures. These caricatures sensationalize this conflict
and ensures that viewers will tune in and voters will turn out, but
what it hasn't provided us with is an intelligent, adult conversation
in which we the consumers are treated as sophisticated human beings
capable of complex thoughts beyond sloganeering. This study hasn't
really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
This study confirms what most level headed analysts and experts on the
East and Muslims have been saying for years, and that is just like
every social, religious or ethnic group a certain percentage is going
to be radical and dangerous while the vast majority will then reside
somewhere in the middle. This means that, while we still face a
significant threat from radical Islam, we face a much more significant
threat if we exacerbate this problem by focusing all our efforts on
smashing this dangerous minority at the risk of alienating the greater
majority. The main thing readers need to take away from this book is
that we can win the war of ideas without having to fight real wars on
the ground.
One of the most important points of this book was that it really
verbalized one of the areas that has been a source of misunderstanding
for us in the US, and that is, while Muslims may envy our
representative governments, they do not want to emulate our society.
In my own research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
humility from the West.
I think another telling aspect of this study is that it shows that
education and knowledge of Muslims have in fact not seen a significant
increase in the US since Sept. 11. The fact that a large portion of
the US population remains quite ignorant of the Muslim faith and its
adherents means that those people who wish to preach the war of
civilizations find a large and receptive audience for that message.
The problem with this is that for us to win the larger war of ideas we
need to help Muslim moderates any way we can. This goal will be helped
if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
are fighting.
What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
exchange of ideas can take place. We now have to decide if we want to
attempt to fight the war of ideas, or are we going to continue trying
to win this battle militarily. If we choose the physical war a quick
glance at the history of the military misadventures of the West in the
Muslim world may be in order. With even a cursory glance at the wars
the West has fought in these areas the picture does not bode well for
our future success if we attempt this route. In the end the strongest
weapon in the West's arsenal is our ideals, and it is this battlefield
in which our greatest advantage lies. This is not simply a peacenik's
na�ve suggestion that we need to arm our military with flowers and the
world will love us. There are a lot of bad people out there who we
will never convert, and these people will have to be dealt with either
on the criminal level or the military level. There are people who want
to kill us and will not stop until they do, but we cannot defeat these
few people by alienating more than a billion people who do not hate
us. We have to win both wars, and if we exclude the war of ideas in
our battle plan we are destined to lose both wars. "
Malrassic Park
wrote:
>But there are 1.8 Billion Muslism today and this is what they say in
>"Who Speaks For Islam?: What a Billion Muslims Really Think
>(Hardcover)
>" by John Esposito
>
>The "The moderate majority speaks, April 13, 2009" review makes some
>good points:
>
>"Here readers have finally been given the unglamorous truth, and that
>is that the US and the West are not engaged in a life and death war of
>civilization with the East. Instead we are faced with a people that we
>don't understand,
That works both ways. The "East" fails to understand the "West." Why
is it that the burden of responsbility falls on the victims?
Look you Arabs, I WILL show you the soles of my shoes, and if you
think that means I am calling you camel dung, then more than likely
that's because I AM calling you camel dung.
> and instead of our media and political leaders
>providing us with accurate descriptions of the Muslim people we are
>provided caricatures.
Likewise, the "East" is provided caricatures of the "West," usually
based on lower aspects of its popular culture which has always been a
minority of the population.
>These caricatures sensationalize this conflict
>and ensures that viewers will tune in and voters will turn out, but
>what it hasn't provided us with is an intelligent, adult conversation
>in which we the consumers are treated as sophisticated human beings
>capable of complex thoughts beyond sloganeering. This study hasn't
>really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
>billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
Sounds more like an ant-pile than either one of those.
>This study confirms what most level headed analysts and experts on the
>East and Muslims have been saying for years, and that is just like
>every social, religious or ethnic group a certain percentage is going
>to be radical and dangerous while the vast majority will then reside
>somewhere in the middle.
Those in the middle, however, understand that the entire key to
winning a war against the good is compromise. Compromise, and the
sanction of the victim, are what this article are all about.
> This means that, while we still face a
>significant threat from radical Islam, we face a much more significant
>threat if we exacerbate this problem by focusing all our efforts on
>smashing this dangerous minority at the risk of alienating the greater
>majority. The main thing readers need to take away from this book is
>that we can win the war of ideas without having to fight real wars on
>the ground.
We have already won the war of ideas, it's called the Constitution of
the United States of America.
>One of the most important points of this book was that it really
>verbalized one of the areas that has been a source of misunderstanding
>for us in the US, and that is, while Muslims may envy our
>representative governments, they do not want to emulate our society.
They would have to understand it to emulate it. They can keep their
silly music, but they cannot tell us what to do on our beaches. There
is no integrating with people who want to set a rule for all women,
not just Muslims, to wear burkhas on the beaches. If there is no
integrating with such people then there can be no compromise.
>In my own
....Non-existent...
> research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
>Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
>West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
>they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
>in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
>our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
>represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
>will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
>humility from the West.
"Hybridization" is a fancy, but empty, word that can only amount to
one thing: the West will end up looking like that shining jewel of
Muslim culture Afghanistan.
>I think another telling aspect of this study is that it shows that
>education and knowledge of Muslims have in fact not seen a significant
>increase in the US since Sept. 11.
TRANSLATION - Some attempt or other to propagandize the American
people with terrorist values has had no effect. Perhaps, just perhaps,
that's because the Muslim population does not understand the enemy it
is fighting against.
> The fact that a large portion of
>the US population remains quite ignorant of the Muslim faith and its
>adherents means that those people who wish to preach the war of
>civilizations find a large and receptive audience for that message.
Propaganda ("education") from Muslims IS part of the war of
civilizations, of cultures and not just ideas.
>The problem with this is that for us to win the larger war of ideas we
>need to help Muslim moderates any way we can.
Compromise, compromise, compromise.
> This goal will be helped
>if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
>that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
>transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
>taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
>are fighting.
>What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
>think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
>exchange of ideas can take place.
Sure, just raise two fingers in a Western peace sign, and then lower
them to wipe your ass in two-finger Muslim style.
> We now have to decide if we want to
>attempt to fight the war of ideas, or are we going to continue trying
>to win this battle militarily. If we choose the physical war a quick
>glance at the history of the military misadventures of the West in the
>Muslim world may be in order. With even a cursory glance at the wars
>the West has fought in these areas the picture does not bode well for
>our future success if we attempt this route. In the end the strongest
>weapon in the West's arsenal is our ideals, and it is this battlefield
>in which our greatest advantage lies. This is not simply a peacenik's
>na�ve suggestion that we need to arm our military with flowers and the
>world will love us. There are a lot of bad people out there who we
>will never convert, and these people will have to be dealt with either
>on the criminal level or the military level. There are people who want
>to kill us and will not stop until they do, but we cannot defeat these
>few people by alienating more than a billion people who do not hate
>us. We have to win both wars, and if we exclude the war of ideas in
>our battle plan we are destined to lose both wars. "
Well John, just start wiping your ass Muslim style (I'm sure you
already do, being a good Catholic and all), and victory for your
"Moderate Muslim" friends will be secured.
Paul Wharton
>>Paul Wharton wrote:
> > "Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
>
> But there are 1.8 Billion Muslism today...
Why do so many children adopt the same philosophy (i.e. muslim
religion) as those around them. It is because of the damn, islamic
schools, state forced religious indoctrination, and political vices
and persecution against all who dare to speak the atheist truth.
>
...[American makes a point by censoring muslim source]...
> "Here readers have finally been given the unglamorous truth, and that
> is that the US and the West are not engaged in a life and death war of
> civilization with the [Middle] East.
You want the USA to concede defeat?
>Instead we are faced with a people that we
> don't understand,
I think you understand what you are trying to pull over on us with
this post.
> and instead of our media and political leaders
> providing us with accurate descriptions of the Muslim people we are
> provided caricatures.
Actually, I argue that America and its allied individuals around the
world are providing far too few caricatures. The Danish ones were
good. And, if I had better drawing art skills I would be glad to add
to the works that have been produced. However, for now I strike out
with the art produced by my keyboard, as that is my specialized
talent.
> These caricatures sensationalize this conflict
> and ensures that viewers will tune in and voters will turn out.
Damn the Middle East voters. That was a real waste under Bush.
> but
> what it hasn't provided us with is an intelligent, adult conversation
> in which we the consumers are treated as sophisticated human beings
> capable of complex thoughts beyond sloganeering.
Sloganeering?!!! What do you call your islamic schools where human
children are taught to parrot muslim chants, nearly every day for
hours on end, until they end up the ultimate consumers of your oil
nationalized states?
> This study hasn't
> really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
> billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
Don't you mean, instead, a military target?
> This study confirms what most level headed analysts and experts on the
> East and Muslims have been saying for years, and that is just like
> every social, religious or ethnic group a certain percentage is going
> to be radical and dangerous while the vast majority will then reside
> somewhere in the middle.
The very nature of your who(lie) book, the koran, instructs you
brainwashed drones to: hate, take over, and murder all Western
individuals, (where ever we may still be found). I bought a koran out
of curiosity, years back. I wanted to critique it from a rational
perspective. I couldn't even get through the first few pages; it was
so full of injustice--spewing filth in the form of variants of human
vice.
> This means that, while we still face a
> significant threat from radical Islam, we face a much more significant
> threat if we exacerbate this problem by focusing all our efforts on
> smashing this dangerous minority at the risk of alienating the greater
> majority. The main thing readers need to take away from this book is
> that [we] can win the war of ideas without having to fight real wars on
> the ground.
Brackets around "we" added by me. Yeah. You'd like that wouldn't
you.
> One of the most important points of this book was that it really
> verbalized one of the areas that has been a source of misunderstanding
> for us in the US, and that is, while Muslims may envy our
> representative governments...
I think you are confused. muslims are not Americans. islam is an
extinct religion. Some may argue that I am closing my eyes. But, I
say, "Wait a while. You'll see."
> they do not want to emulate our society.
> In my own research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
> Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
> West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
> they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
> in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
> our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
> represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
> will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
> humility from the West.
No.
> I think another telling aspect of this study is that it shows that
> education and knowledge of Muslims have in fact not seen a significant
> increase in the US since Sept. 11.
Can you relio-tyrants give it up?
> The fact that a large portion of
> the US population remains quite ignorant of the Muslim faith and its
> adherents means that those people who wish to preach the war of
> civilizations find a large and receptive audience for that message.
> The problem with this is that for us to win the larger war of ideas we
> need to help Muslim moderates any way we can. This goal will be helped
> if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
> that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
> transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
> taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
> are fighting.
>
You are such an idiot.
> What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
> think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
> exchange of ideas can take place. We now have to decide if we want to
> attempt to fight the war of ideas, or are we going to continue trying
> to win this battle militarily. If we choose the physical war a quick
> glance at the history of the military misadventures of the West in the
> Muslim world may be in order. With even a cursory glance at the wars
> the West has fought in these areas the picture does not bode well for
> our future success if we attempt this route. In the end the strongest
> weapon in the West's arsenal is our ideals, and it is this battlefield
> in which our greatest advantage lies. This is not simply a peacenik's
> na ve suggestion that we need to arm our military with flowers and the
> world will love us. There are a lot of bad people out there who we
> will never convert, and these people will have to be dealt with either
> on the criminal level or the military level. There are people who want
> to kill us and will not stop until they do, but we cannot defeat these
> few people by alienating more than a billion people who do not hate
> us. We have to win both wars, and if we exclude the war of ideas in
> our battle plan we are destined to lose both wars. "
You will be stopped, reason willing.
Paul Wharton
American Objectivist
Manda Ruby
> >Manda Ruby wrote:
> >>Paul Wharton wrote:
> > > "Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
>
> > But there are 1.8 Billion Muslism today...
>
> Why do so many children adopt the same philosophy (i.e. muslim
> religion) as those around them. �It is because of the damn, islamic
> schools, state forced religious indoctrination, and political vices
> and persecution against all who dare to speak the atheist truth.
So your approcah to dealing with this is by trying to kill them all or
somthging like that instead of helping to enable them (for your own
benefits, of course) to have other options? Do you think you will
succeed? The first step in realizing the shoes other people in for
available choices is to have a level of compassion as a human being
but that will not be possible when people think that one (as agroup)
is superior to another.
>
> ...[American makes a point by censoring muslim source]...
>
> > "Here readers have finally been given the unglamorous truth, and that
> > is that the US and the West are not engaged in a life and death war of
> > civilization with the [Middle] East.
>
> You want the USA to concede defeat?
Where did I say that? My only point is that the way it has been
going, you are never to control *them* much less to wipe *them* out,
them being the real trouble makers. Your only chance is to mobilize
the Muslims mass and it's not going to happen unless you stop trying
to kill them all.The majority of Muslims get plenty of trouble from
*them* but you become an immediate danger to their lives and it
doesn't talke agenius to see whom they'll fight first to defend
themslevs.
>
> >Instead we are faced with a people that we
> > don't understand,
>
> I think you understand what you are trying to pull over on us with
> this post.
What do you think that is? I guarantee that you got it wrong.
People like you, born in a time where your country is dominant
politically and economically, live in this little world of your,
thinking that you are all that. And you guys keep throwing this East
versus West thing instead of getting that the Western Dominance since
the Renaissance (of Europe, not the world) is on the decline. It's a
reality that you can do nothing about other than whine, complaining
too much population increase among those groups or this or that.
Below is an informative video to watch to understand that the world
does NOT revolve around the West and western culture. You should
definitely watch it because it is your history too as all Non-
Africans on the planet can trace their descent from those early
migrations into India; the rest of the world was populated from here.
Mother India indeed. (starts at 00:34 in Part 1).
From PBS:
The Story of India Part-1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EK0hMsFpeBo
At 00:55:" It's a place whose children will grow up in a global
superpower and yet still know what it means to belong to an ancient
civilization.
The Story of India Part-2 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U92FbWAkcVA&feature=related
At 00:28: From the Buddha to Mahatma Gandhi, Indian history is full of
such figures. Men and women who contested the idea that history should
only be written by the men of war.
There is more till part 7
>
> > and instead of our media and political leaders
> > providing us with accurate descriptions of the Muslim people we are
> > provided caricatures.
>
> Actually, I argue that America and its allied individuals around the
> world are providing far too few caricatures. �The Danish ones were
> good. �And, if I had better drawing art skills I would be glad to add
> to the works that have been produced. �However, for now I strike out
> with the art produced by my keyboard, as that is my specialized
> talent.
Just as I strike out with the art produced by my keyboard though I
have reduced wasting my time on people with deaf ears. Dudes, you
guys need to get out of this superiority that the West is the center
of civilization. If you think that the economic success of the past
600 years or so in the Western world was due to Western philosophy,
think again. Right in front of your eyes, Indian is in its inception
to become the next super power. Of course, you can point out about
the poverty, etc. instead of seeing that every society as old as that
was bound to have a stratified society as seen in India. Give about
1000 years of existence, you will see it here too.
> > These caricatures sensationalize this conflict
> > and ensures that viewers will tune in and voters will turn out.
>
> Damn the Middle East voters. �That was a real waste under Bush.
>
> > but
> > what it hasn't provided us with is an intelligent, adult conversation
> > in which we the consumers are treated as sophisticated human beings
> > capable of complex thoughts beyond sloganeering.
>
> Sloganeering?!!! �What do you call your islamic schools where human
> children are taught to parrot muslim chants, nearly every day for
> hours on end, until they end up the ultimate consumers of your oil
> nationalized states?
Was Islamic schools the only religious schools doing this chanting? Of
course, you can say others don't blow themsleves up. I will tell you
that that is a cop-out way of refuting.
>
> > This study hasn't
> > really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
> > billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
>
> Don't you mean, instead, a military target?
Keep up with that attaitude. You know very well you can do that only
here. Try wiping out 1.8 Billion Muslims spread out all over the
world. Youd' be targeting. You are the one idiot, not me as you
claimed somewhere below.
>
> > This study confirms what most level headed analysts and experts on the
> > East and Muslims have been saying for years, and that is just like
> > every social, religious or ethnic group a certain percentage is going
> > to be radical and dangerous while the vast majority will then reside
> > somewhere in the middle.
>
> The very nature of your who(lie) book, the koran, instructs you
> brainwashed drones to: hate, take over, and murder all Western
> individuals, (where ever we may still be found).
Oh really!� Did you really study the Quran to be making this
statement? Btw, I don't practise any religion or read any religious
text though I am very curious about the teaching of ethics in all
religions and I try to learn those through scholarly writings instead
of reading sources that you do.
> I bought a koran out
> of curiosity, years back. �I wanted to critique it from a rational
> perspective. �I couldn't even get through the first few pages; it was
> so full of injustice--spewing filth in the form of variants of human
> vice.
If you read like that instead of *studying* it in scholarly manner,
that's what you're going to get. First of all, the Quran is put in
writing from the longest chapter to the shortest NOT chronologically
as the verses were said to have received. My guess is that the
Caliphe who ordered to put the Quran in writing - long after
Mohammad's death - wanted to prevent the mistke in the chronological
order.
>
> > This means that, while we still face a
> > significant threat from radical Islam, we face a much more significant
> > threat if we exacerbate this problem by focusing all our efforts on
> > smashing this dangerous minority at the risk of alienating the greater
> > majority. The main thing readers need to take away from this book is
> > that [we] can win the war of ideas without having to fight real wars on
> > the ground.
>
> Brackets around "we" added by me. �Yeah. �You'd like that wouldn't
> you.
Dude, I didn't write that review (at amazon; I forgot to put the
link).
>
> > One of the most important points of this book was that it really
> > verbalized one of the areas that has been a source of misunderstanding
> > for us in the US, and that is, while Muslims may envy our
> > representative governments...
>
> I think you are confused. �muslims are not Americans. �islam is an
> extinct religion. �
Contrary to Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, etc. the religions are not
going to become extinct anytime soon. I personally doubt that they
will disappear at all. I believe that they''ll be tansformed.
>Some may argue that I am closing my eyes. �But, I
> say, "Wait a while. �You'll see."
I assure you that your great grandchildren will be gone before Islam
is gone from this earth.
>
> > they do not want to emulate our society.
> > In my own research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
> > Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
> > West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
> > they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
> > in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
> > our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
> > represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
> > will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
> > humility from the West.
>
> No.
>
> > I think another telling aspect of this study is that it shows that
> > education and knowledge of Muslims have in fact not seen a significant
> > increase in the US since Sept. 11.
>
> Can you relio-tyrants give it up?
He was talking about the average Americans who are not interested
learnign anything anyway; that's why US media can brainwash them
easily. However, there has been more curiosity toward Islam since
9/11.
>
> > The fact that a large portion of
> > the US population remains quite ignorant of the Muslim faith and its
> > adherents means that those people who wish to preach the war of
> > civilizations find a large and receptive audience for that message.
> > The problem with this is that for us to win the larger war of ideas we
> > need to help Muslim moderates any way we can. This goal will be helped
> > if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
> > that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
> > transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
> > taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
> > are fighting.
>
> You are such an idiot.
No, you are.
>
>
>
>
>
> > What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
> > think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
> > exchange of ideas can take place. We now have to decide if we want to
> > attempt to fight the war of ideas, or are we going to continue trying
> > to win this battle militarily. If we choose the physical war a quick
> > glance at the history of the military misadventures of the West in the
> > Muslim world may be in order. With even a cursory glance at the wars
> > the West has fought in these areas the picture does not bode well for
> > our future success if we attempt this route. In the end the strongest
> > weapon in the West's arsenal is our ideals, and it is this battlefield
> > in which our greatest advantage lies. This is not simply a peacenik's
> > na ve suggestion that we need to arm our military with flowers and the
> > world will love us. There are a lot of bad people out there who we
> > will never convert, and these people will have to be dealt with either
> > on the criminal level or the military level. There are people who want
> > to kill us and will not stop until they do, but we cannot defeat these
> > few people by alienating more than a billion people who do not hate
> > us. We have to win both wars, and if we exclude the war of ideas in
> > our battle plan we are destined to lose both wars. "
>
> You will be stopped, reason willing.
Try it. (I am gladly putting myself among them as you wish.)
>
> Paul Wharton
> American Objectivist- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Manda Ruby
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 07:27:35 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >But there are 1.8 Billion Muslism today and this is what they say in
> >"Who Speaks For Islam?: What a Billion Muslims Really Think
> >(Hardcover)
> >" by John Esposito
>
> >The "The moderate majority speaks, April 13, 2009" review makes some
> >good points:
>
> >"Here readers have finally been given the unglamorous truth, and that
> >is that the US and the West are not engaged in a life and death war of
> >civilization with the East. Instead we are faced with a people that we
> >don't understand,
>
> That works both ways. The "East" fails to understand the "West." Why
> is it that the burden of responsbility falls on the victims?
You can complain as you wish but this is not a court of law. So, if
you want to protect yourself, you should do what is necessary.
>
> Look you Arabs, I WILL show you the soles of my shoes, and if you
> think that means I am calling you camel dung, then more than likely
> that's because I AM calling you camel dung.
Pretending to be an Arab, I will gladly take your insult because your
insult is indication that the religion Arab founded has made them a
dominant force in the world to reckon with.
>
> > and instead of our media and political leaders
> >providing us with accurate descriptions of the Muslim people we are
> >provided caricatures.
>
> Likewise, the "East" is provided caricatures of the "West," usually
> based on lower aspects of its popular culture which has always been a
> minority of the population.
But the West claims to be democracy with freedom of speech.
>
> >These caricatures sensationalize this conflict
> >and ensures that viewers will tune in and voters will turn out, but
> >what it hasn't provided us with is an intelligent, adult conversation
> >in which we the consumers are treated as sophisticated human beings
> >capable of complex thoughts beyond sloganeering. This study hasn't
> >really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
> >billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
>
> Sounds more like an ant-pile than either one of those.
I wouldn't expect anythign else from a racist like you. I will only
tell you to watch the same video I told Paul to watch in my reply post
to him.
>
> >This study confirms what most level headed analysts and experts on the
> >East and Muslims have been saying for years, and that is just like
> >every social, religious or ethnic group a certain percentage is going
> >to be radical and dangerous while the vast majority will then reside
> >somewhere in the middle.
>
> Those in the middle, however, understand that the entire key to
> winning a war against the good is compromise. Compromise, and the
> sanction of the victim, are what this article are all about.
Like I said to Paul, put in a situation of immediate danger to life,
i.e. as military target versus danger formt he Mullahs, whom do you
think the Mulims would fight first?
>
> > This means that, while we still face a
> >significant threat from radical Islam, we face a much more significant
> >threat if we exacerbate this problem by focusing all our efforts on
> >smashing this dangerous minority at the risk of alienating the greater
> >majority. The main thing readers need to take away from this book is
> >that we can win the war of ideas without having to fight real wars on
> >the ground.
>
> We have already won the war of ideas, it's called the Constitution of
> the United States of America.
How can you claim that when the your fellow sheep citizens of US don't
even know what it is? You are amusing me.
> >One of the most important points of this book was that it really
> >verbalized one of the areas that has been a source of misunderstanding
> >for us in the US, and that is, while Muslims may envy our
> >representative governments, they do not want to emulate our society.
>
> They would have to understand it to emulate it. They can keep their
> silly music, but they cannot tell us what to do on our beaches. There
> is no integrating with people who want to set a rule for all women,
> not just Muslims, to wear burkhas on the beaches. If there is no
> integrating with such people then there can be no compromise.
Your understanding of what the book says and the reviewer saying comes
down to this? At leats, the Muslims have provided provisions for the
women to use the beach freely. In other places, women simply don't
use the beach other than sitting on the sand fully clothed, out of
social intimidation. You wouldn't know that would you, sitting in
your own little world inside US.
>
> >In my own
>
> ....Non-existent...
>
> > research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
> >Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
> >West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
> >they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
> >in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
> >our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
> >represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
> >will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
> >humility from the West.
>
> "Hybridization" is a fancy, but empty, word that can only amount to
> one thing: the West will end up looking like that shining jewel of
> Muslim culture Afghanistan.
The West is already on its way due to its failure to apply the
equallity and what not that came with the Renaissance movment in their
dealings with non Europeans duirng the colonial period as well as post
Colonial period much less to foster the ideas. That's just my
personal take on it.
>
> >I think another telling aspect of this study is that it shows that
> >education and knowledge of Muslims have in fact not seen a significant
> >increase in the US since Sept. 11.
>
> TRANSLATION - Some attempt or other to propagandize the American
> people with terrorist values has had no effect. Perhaps, just perhaps,
> that's because the Muslim population does not understand the enemy it
> is fighting against.
Oh beleive me that Muslims understand their *enemies* quite well. It's
just that they also know which one they'd have to deal with first in
order to wipe the second (the Islamists) and that's exactly what
they're doing.
>
> > The fact that a large portion of
> >the US population remains quite ignorant of the Muslim faith and its
> >adherents means that those people who wish to preach the war of
> >civilizations find a large and receptive audience for that message.
>
> Propaganda ("education") from Muslims IS part of the war of
> civilizations, of cultures and not just ideas.
Just as the west has been doing.
>
> >The problem with this is that for us to win the larger war of ideas we
> >need to help Muslim moderates any way we can.
>
> Compromise, compromise, compromise.
Nope. You realy have NO clue how much the average Muslims want
secular government, do you? Most of them go along, nodding, with the
preachers' dream-talking of a just ruler leading the way but most,
given a chance to express what they really want would use the term
secular government. Some have already started using those language.
> > This goal will be helped
> >if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
> >that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
> >transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
> >taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
> >are fighting.
> >What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
> >think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
> >exchange of ideas can take place.
>
> Sure, just raise two fingers in a Western peace sign, and then lower
> them to wipe your ass in two-finger Muslim style.
Your vulgarity only shows how clueless you are about things that you
act like you know. With you, its just going to be the same cycle of
the West is superior and hence everyone must abandon their culture,
traditions, and religions and adopt western way of life.
>
>
>
>
>
> > We now have to decide if we want to
> >attempt to fight the war of ideas, or are we going to continue trying
> >to win this battle militarily. If we choose the physical war a quick
> >glance at the history of the military misadventures of the West in the
> >Muslim world may be in order. With even a cursory glance at the wars
> >the West has fought in these areas the picture does not bode well for
> >our future success if we attempt this route. In the end the strongest
> >weapon in the West's arsenal is our ideals, and it is this battlefield
> >in which our greatest advantage lies. This is not simply a peacenik's
> >na�ve suggestion that we need to arm our military with flowers and the
> >world will love us. There are a lot of bad people out there who we
> >will never convert, and these people will have to be dealt with either
> >on the criminal level or the military level. There are people who want
> >to kill us and will not stop until they do, but we cannot defeat these
> >few people by alienating more than a billion people who do not hate
> >us. We have to win both wars, and if we exclude the war of ideas in
> >our battle plan we are destined to lose both wars. "
>
> Well John, just start wiping your ass Muslim style (I'm sure you
> already do, being a good Catholic and all), and victory for your
> "Moderate Muslim" friends will be secured.- Hide quoted text -
Malrassic Park
wrote:
>On Jan 10, 9:16�am, Malrassic Park <malen...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> That works both ways. The "East" fails to understand the "West." Why
>> is it that the burden of responsbility falls on the victims?
..
>You can complain as you wish but this is not a court of law. So, if
>you want to protect yourself, you should do what is necessary.
..
>> Look you Arabs, I WILL show you the soles of my shoes, and if you
>> think that means I am calling you camel dung, then more than likely
>> that's because I AM calling you camel dung.
..
>Pretending to be an Arab, I will gladly take your insult because your
>insult is indication that the religion Arab founded has made them a
>dominant force in the world to reckon with.
Camel dung.
>> > and instead of our media and political leaders
>> >providing us with accurate descriptions of the Muslim people we are
>> >provided caricatures.
..
>> Likewise, the "East" is provided caricatures of the "West," usually
>> based on lower aspects of its popular culture which has always been a
>> minority of the population.
..
>But the West claims to be democracy with freedom of speech.
Camel dung.
>> >These caricatures sensationalize this conflict
>> >and ensures that viewers will tune in and voters will turn out, but
>> >what it hasn't provided us with is an intelligent, adult conversation
>> >in which we the consumers are treated as sophisticated human beings
>> >capable of complex thoughts beyond sloganeering. This study hasn't
>> >really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
>> >billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
..
>> Sounds more like an ant-pile than either one of those.
..
>I wouldn't expect anythign else from a racist like you. I will only
>tell you to watch the same video I told Paul to watch in my reply post
>to him.
Camel dung.
>> >This study confirms what most level headed analysts and experts on the
>> >East and Muslims have been saying for years, and that is just like
>> >every social, religious or ethnic group a certain percentage is going
>> >to be radical and dangerous while the vast majority will then reside
>> >somewhere in the middle.
..
>> Those in the middle, however, understand that the entire key to
>> winning a war against the good is compromise. Compromise, and the
>> sanction of the victim, are what this article are all about.
..
>Like I said to Paul, put in a situation of immediate danger to life,
>i.e. as military target versus danger formt he Mullahs, whom do you
>think the Mulims would fight first?
There is no need to negotiate and compromise with camel dung.
>> > This means that, while we still face a
>> >significant threat from radical Islam, we face a much more significant
>> >threat if we exacerbate this problem by focusing all our efforts on
>> >smashing this dangerous minority at the risk of alienating the greater
>> >majority. The main thing readers need to take away from this book is
>> >that we can win the war of ideas without having to fight real wars on
>> >the ground.
..
>> We have already won the war of ideas, it's called the Constitution of
>> the United States of America.
..
>How can you claim that when the your fellow sheep citizens of US don't
>even know what it is? You are amusing me.
Camel dung.
>> >One of the most important points of this book was that it really
>> >verbalized one of the areas that has been a source of misunderstanding
>> >for us in the US, and that is, while Muslims may envy our
>> >representative governments, they do not want to emulate our society.
>>
>> They would have to understand it to emulate it. They can keep their
>> silly music, but they cannot tell us what to do on our beaches. There
>> is no integrating with people who want to set a rule for all women,
>> not just Muslims, to wear burkhas on the beaches. If there is no
>> integrating with such people then there can be no compromise.
>
>Your understanding of what the book says and the reviewer saying comes
>down to this? At leats, the Muslims have provided provisions for the
>women to use the beach freely. In other places, women simply don't
>use the beach other than sitting on the sand fully clothed, out of
>social intimidation. You wouldn't know that would you, sitting in
>your own little world inside US.
It comes down to saying that there is no integrating with camel dung,
even moderate camel dung, who demand dress codes for all non-camel
dung too simply because they are so intolerant of and insensitive
toward non-camel dung.
>> >In my own
..
>> ....Non-existent...
..
>> > research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
>> >Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
>> >West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
>> >they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
>> >in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
>> >our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
>> >represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
>> >will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
>> >humility from the West.
>>
>> "Hybridization" is a fancy, but empty, word that can only amount to
>> one thing: the West will end up looking like that shining jewel of
>> Muslim culture Afghanistan.
>
>The West is already on its way due to its failure to apply the
>equallity and what not that came with the Renaissance movment in their
>dealings with non Europeans duirng the colonial period as well as post
>Colonial period much less to foster the ideas. That's just my
>personal take on it.
What worked with the Indians can work with the camel dung too, even if
it's necessary to use razor wire, electric fences, and armed guards to
keep them on their reservations.
>Nope. You realy have NO clue how much the average Muslims want
>secular government, do you?
They want a secular government, but not our culture and way of life.
Interesting.
> Most of them go along, nodding, with the
>preachers' dream-talking of a just ruler leading the way but most,
>given a chance to express what they really want would use the term
>secular government. Some have already started using those language.
..
>> > This goal will be helped
>> >if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
>> >that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
>> >transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
>> >taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
>> >are fighting.
>> >What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
>> >think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
>> >exchange of ideas can take place.
..
>> Sure, just raise two fingers in a Western peace sign, and then lower
>> them to wipe your ass in two-finger Muslim style.
..
>Your vulgarity only shows how clueless you are about things that you
>act like you know. With you, its just going to be the same cycle of
>the West is superior and hence everyone must abandon their culture,
>traditions, and religions and adopt western way of life.
They don't HAVE to adopt any culture, traditions, etc. They WILL
adopt, it because they know what's best for them.
Manda Ruby
to. I am repsonding only to tell you that there is a saying that goes
like this: you cannot rise above the opinion you have of others. You
definitely are one such person.
On Jan 12, 1:50�ｿｽpm, Malrassic Park <malen...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:16:50 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> >down to this? �ｿｽAt leats, the Muslims have provided provisions for the
> >women to use the beach freely. �ｿｽIn other places, women simply don't
> >use the beach other than sitting on the sand fully clothed, out of
> >social intimidation. �ｿｽYou wouldn't know that would you, sitting in
> >your own little world inside US.
>
> It comes down to saying that there is no integrating with camel dung,
> even moderate camel dung, who demand dress codes for all non-camel
> dung too simply because they are so intolerant of and insensitive
> toward non-camel dung.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> >In my own
> ..
> >> ....Non-existent...
> ..
> >> > research I have come across this sentiment many times. What
> >> >Muslims wish to accomplish is a hybridization of the East and the
> >> >West. They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
> >> >they admire with their own set of values, so what we have to remember
> >> >in the West is that liberalization for these people will not look like
> >> >our evolution, but instead will be something wholly new that
> >> >represents a completely different culture. Our acceptance of this fact
> >> >will help us win the war of ideas, and will evince some much needed
> >> >humility from the West.
>
> >> "Hybridization" is a fancy, but empty, word that can only amount to
> >> one thing: the West will end up looking like that shining jewel of
> >> Muslim culture Afghanistan.
>
> >The West is already on its way due to its failure to apply the
> >equallity and what not that came with the Renaissance movment in their
> >dealings with non Europeans duirng the colonial period as well as post
> >Colonial period much less to foster the ideas. �ｿｽThat's just my
> >personal take on it.
>
> What worked with the Indians can work with the camel dung too, even if
> it's necessary to use razor wire, electric fences, and armed guards to
> keep them on their reservations.
>
> >Nope. �ｿｽYou realy have NO clue how much the average Muslims want
> >secular government, do you?
>
> They want a secular government, but not our culture and way of life.
>
> Interesting.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Most of them go along, nodding, with the
> >preachers' dream-talking of a just ruler leading the way but most,
> >given a chance to express what they really want would use the term
> >secular government. Some have already started using those language.
> ..
> >> > This goal will be helped
> >> >if we in the West moderate our tone, and express in categorical terms
> >> >that we are not at war with Islam. If we can verbalize this and then
> >> >transfer that to our real actions then we will have gone a long way in
> >> >taking away the enormous propaganda boon for these very radicals we
> >> >are fighting.
> >> >What this book shows us is that we are not as far off as we might
> >> >think. It shows that there is a common ground where a dialogue and an
> >> >exchange of ideas can take place.
> ..
> >> Sure, just raise two fingers in a Western peace sign, and then lower
> >> them to wipe your ass in two-finger Muslim style.
> ..
> >Your vulgarity only shows how clueless you are about things that you
> >act like you know. �ｿｽWith you, its just going to be the same cycle of
> >the West is superior and hence everyone must abandon their culture,
> >traditions, and religions and adopt western way of life.
>
> They don't HAVE to adopt any culture, traditions, etc. They WILL
> adopt, it because they know what's best for them.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Paul Wharton
>>Paul Wharton wrote:
> > Why do so many children adopt the same philosophy (i.e. muslim
> > religion) as those around them. �It is because of the damn, islamic
> > schools, state forced religious indoctrination, and political vices
> > and persecution against all who dare to speak the atheist truth.
>
> So your approcah to dealing with this is by trying to kill them all or
> somthging like that instead of helping to enable them (for your own
> benefits, of course) to have other options? �
America must now kill muslims because their indoctrinated religion
instructs them to kill us. Bush tried to semi-peacefully encourage
freedom in a couple of islamic countries, but it is impractical (not
to mention expensive to the U.S. taxpayers). The muslims started this
conflict by teaching each other to hate and murder the Westerners.
Terrorist acts, such as 9/11, took the religion to its practical
implementation. And, the refusal to disband the beliefs in countries
that have stolen Western oil, and trampled the property rights of
businessmen, leads us to only one practical way to win. America must
nuke the Middle East.
>
> People like you, born in a time where your country is dominant
> politically and economically, live in this little world of your,
> thinking that �you are all that...
>
Why do you Middle East muslims see that the West is better
economically, scientifically, technologically, morally and
politically? It just goes to show that America is superior, and islam
is inferior.
>
>...Indian is in its inception
> to become the next super power...
>
You keep referring to India, but my Microsoft Encarta software says
India is only 13.4% muslim. Don't you think that any progress India
is making is a result of the non-muslim element. I do.
>
> Was Islamic schools the only religious schools doing this chanting? Of
> course, you can say others don't blow themsleves up.
>
islam takes the brainwashing to a way higher level.
>
> > > This study hasn't
> > > really offered anything revelatory other than to suggest that over a
> > > billion Muslims are in fact human beings and are not a monolith.
>
> > Don't you mean, instead, a military target?
>
> Keep up with that attaitude. You know very well �you can do that only
> here. Try wiping out 1.8 Billion Muslims spread out all over the
> world. Youd' be targeting. �You are the one idiot, not me as you
> claimed somewhere below.
>
islam instructed it. muslims took it from the writings to the
skyscrapers of New York, and the highest structure of the most
powerful military on Earth. muslims lost territory, but chose to keep
exploding themselves. islamic leaders are refusing to submit to
reason in politics. *You* are the ones who: planned the conflict,
caused it, continue it, and declare that you will never give it up. I
have no guilt in the matter.
>
> > The very nature of your who(lie) book, the koran, instructs you
> > brainwashed drones to: hate, take over, and murder all Western
> > individuals, (where ever we may still be found).
>
> Oh really!� Did you really study the Quran to be making this
> statement?
>
I've read enough and seen enough to know how evil it is.
>
> > I bought a koran out
> > of curiosity, years back. �I wanted to critique it from a rational
> > perspective. �I couldn't even get through the first few pages; it was
> > so full of injustice--spewing filth in the form of variants of human
> > vice.
>
> Contrary to Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, etc. the religions are not
> going to become extinct anytime soon. �I personally doubt that they
> will disappear at all. I believe that they''ll be tansformed.
>
Murder your own life at your own expense.
>
> I assure you that your great grandchildren will be gone before Islam
> is gone from this earth.
>
How? Is your "great" religion going to kill them, somehow?
You muslims might succeed in killing me, and a lot of other American:
civilians, soldiers, businessmen and political leaders. But, when the
leadership of America finally gets the backbone to go nuclear, your
religion of misery and sorrow is not going to be very pleasant.
Paul Wharton
Westmont, Illinois, America
C3
Allah most certainly does exist and He is the same God of the Hebrew
Scriptures and the Old and New Testaments. Allah is truly good!
Don't make the horrible mistake of thinking God is not good! Allah
loves you and is merciful. Even Christ himself said, "Why ask me what
is good, ONLY God is good." Of course, Christ is not a prophet
either, as Muslim religions teach. He is the Second Person of the
Trinity and the Divine Son of God. Jesus loves you. Don't ever forget
it.
C3+
Jim Klein
> They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
> they admire with their own set of values...
Look, Manda, societies and civilizations are not the sort
of entities that have values. And the sooner every Jew,
Christian, Muslim and every collectivist of any stripe
get that through their thick skulls, the better.
jk
Jim Klein
> Look you Arabs, I WILL show you the soles of my shoes, and if you
> think that means I am calling you camel dung, then more than likely
> that's because I AM calling you camel dung.
Luckily for them, this tells us tons about you but
nothing about them.
> Likewise, the "East" is provided caricatures of the "West,"
And what are you--Provision Central?
jk
Jim Klein
> So your approcah to dealing with this is by trying to kill them all or
> somthging like that instead of helping to enable them (for your own
> benefits, of course) to have other options?
Well, everyone's got options and he's about the last
guy in a position to "enable" any. He's got a prophecy
too, you know. It's called, "Look, say."
What are you asking, anyway? Obviously that's his approach.
This is old, old news and don't be a fool like I was last month.
Here are the respective claims:
"I can make thuggery moral by calling it 'Rule of Law.'"
and
"I can make genocide moral by calling it a 'Final Solution.'"
Look, say, do. What, you never owned a dog?
jk
Mal
> Allah most certainly does exist and He is the same God of the Hebrew
> Scriptures and the Old and New Testaments. �Allah is truly good!
> Don't make the horrible mistake of thinking God is not good! �Allah
> loves you and is merciful. �
Yes, just think, Allah the Merciful gave those 9/11 victims a
choice between dying by fire and dying by jumping.
Mal
> On Jan 10, 10:27 am, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > They wish to incorporate those aspects of Western civilization
> > they admire with their own set of values...
>
> Look, Manda, societies and civilizations are not the sort
> of entities that have values.
Oh yes, Amanda just loves using the collectivist "fallacy of
composition."
Mal
> These muslims in the Middle East, and wherever such may be found, have
> it all wrong. �They are chanting false mantras to a nonexistent "God"
> and a human corpse that has been dead for hundreds of years. �If
> muslims want to speak of such concepts they should get it right and
> join me in reciting:
> "Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
> Paul Wharton
> American Objectivist
Worse yet, Paul Wharton American Objectivist, they worship a
meteorite.
Mecca is built around a meteorite. Three million Muslims a year
pilgrimage to Mecca to worship at a meteorite landing site.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Superstitious fucking morons.
chazwin
Don't forget "Jahovah never existed and Jesus is dead."
Manda Ruby
> On Jan 9, 6:40锟絧m, Paul Wharton <paulwhar...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > These muslims in the Middle East, and wherever such may be found, have
> > and a human corpse that has been dead for hundreds of years. 锟絀f
> > muslims want to speak of such concepts they should get it right and
> > join me in reciting:
> .
> > "Allah never existed and Muhammad is dead."
> .
> > Paul Wharton
> > American Objectivist
>
> Worse yet, Paul Wharton American Objectivist, they worship a
> meteorite.
> Mecca is built around a meteorite. Three million Muslims a year
> pilgrimage to Mecca to worship at a meteorite landing site.
Not that I am defending this ritual practise but you got it wrong as
usual. They do NOT worship that meteriote. It's merely a ritual they
consider very important. Watching the movie "The Message" starrign
Anthony Quinn, along with knowing some history of that part of the
world around the time of Islam, it'd be easy to understand why
Mohammad, who abolished the yearly pagan pilgrimage to the 360 gos at
that site as he preached about Islam" ended up creating a yearly
ritual of Islam. Of course, if you have already decided what you wan
to believe in, no point in understanding the history of pre-Islamic
era just before Islam came to the Arabia Peninsula.
This pilgromage scence of Pre_Islamic Aravbia is in the following
video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whjpd3G9Ltk&feature=related (~10 mins)
>
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What are you? An 8 year old?
>
> Superstitious fucking morons.
Malrassic Park
wrote:
>> meteorite.
>> Mecca is built around a meteorite. Three million Muslims a year
>> pilgrimage to Mecca to worship at a meteorite landing site.
>
>Not that I am defending this ritual practise but you got it wrong as
>usual. They do NOT worship that meteriote.
I didn't say that. In the quote above I said they worship AT a
meteorite landing site.
GUH!
Manda Ruby
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 22:19:15 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> meteorite.
> >> Mecca is built around a meteorite. Three million Muslims a year
> >> pilgrimage to Mecca to worship at a meteorite landing site.
>
> >Not that I am defending this ritual practise but you got it wrong as
> >usual. They do NOT worship that meteriote.
>
> I didn't say that. In the quote above I said they worship AT a
> meteorite landing site.
>
> GUH!
But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
Objectivist, they worship a
meteorite."
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Malrassic Park
wrote:
>But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
>Objectivist, they worship a
>meteorite."
Sunnah!
Manda Ruby
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:02:08 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
> >Objectivist, they worship a
> >meteorite."
>
> Sunnah!
What?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
?
Malrassic Park
wrote:
>On Feb 19, 10:39�pm, Malrassic Park <male...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:02:08 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
..
>> >But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
>> >Objectivist, they worship a
>> >meteorite."
..
>> Sunnah!
..
>What?
You seem to know everything about this Islamic meteor kissing crapola,
so why don't you tell us what Sunnah means.
Manda Ruby
> On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:19:46 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On Feb 19, 10:39�pm, Malrassic Park <male...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:02:08 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> ..
> >> >But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
> >> >Objectivist, they worship a
> >> >meteorite."
> ..
> >> Sunnah!
> ..
> >What?
>
> You seem to know everything about this Islamic meteor kissing crapola,
> so why don't you tell us what Sunnah means.
I am sure I can google it and find out but my question was what's your
response supposed to mean? BTW, the info about the meteor kissing
crapola is not that hard to find. I first saw (accidentally) Karen
Armstrong 's "Biography of Prophet Mohammad" in 1997 or 1998 at a used
book store which I stopped by only because I saw it after eating at a
restaurant nearby. I was buying a gift - got a book on wine for
someone as a X'Mas gift. That book was only $5.00. It was an eye
opening book.
I just googled that word. It turns out that it's the same meaning as
the word I came to know as Sunnath (this is my spelling). Again, what
do you mean by "Sunnah"? Do you mean that Mohammad was kissing that
shrine and so Muslims do ti too. I don't think that's the case. I
think that Mohammad wanted to abolish that stupid practise but though
he succeeded wiping the pagan practise, he realized that without that
yearly ritual, the economy of the city of Mecca would go downhill and
so he came up with that pilgrimage plan. I don't know at which point
he started commanding that practise. As far as I know (from the movie
"The message"), he didn't talk about this practice and only talked
about not worshipping those idols. What I am extrapolating now,
"after learning some new information very recently like less than 2 -3
months", is that the same people who were collecting the fees from
pilgrims in pre-Islamic Arabia were the people who benefited from this
hajj business. I knew *from the movie* and Karen Armstrong's book that
the people were who were fighting Mohammad was his own tribe. What I
didn't know until very redently was that they were from a different
clan. In came to know this information quite accidentally: Reading
the Sunni and Shia split, I learned about the four righlty Guided
Caliphs, followed by Ummayyad dynasty which turned out to be the
descendants of Ummaya who was the brother of Mohammad's Great
grandfather. Both clans belong to the tribe of Qureish (My spelling
may be wrong), considered the most nobel tribe (Money and power make a
tribe nobel.)
So, it is my opinion that not only that the Sunni vs Shiia split was
not just soley due to ideology - Shia means "The Party of Ali". Ali
was Mohammad's cousin and son-in-law. It must have been a clan thing.
After the governor of Syria assasinated the 5th Caliph who was Ali's
son (Mohammad's grandson), he killed the fleeing brother, the other
grandson of Mohammad. This incidence took place in the region of
Iraq. I knew the killing (but not who the 5th Caliph was much less
that he was assasinated very soon after becomigng Caliph) from my
previous reading but only from the recently found info, I learned that
this so called governor of Syria was the one who founded the Ummayyad
dynasty. In another word, it is political rivalry between Ummayydas
and Hashimites aside from ideology.) That right there told me that the
clan of Mohammad "Called Hashimites" and the clan of Ummaya (Called
Ummayad), both from the noble tribe of Qureish, were rivals in pre-
islamic time as well as after Islam was firmly established and all the
tribe of Ummay became Muslims. One can safely say that all Hashimites
became Muslims very soon. Only his clan would have supported him
(Mohammad) that quickly though monotheistic concept was not a strange
concept to them.
Ummayyad dysnasty was rid of by the Abassids who moved the capital to
Bahgdad. The lone survivor of Ummayyad dynasty fled to Africa first
and then to Southern Spain to join his supporters who had already
taken over Spain but retreating to Southern Spain, an area sparsely
populated, establishing Andalusia (Muslim Spain).
I think that the guy (Mohammad) didn't get to do a lot of things he
wanted because the society was not ready. I say that because of
something I read about in Time's (or was it Newsweek?) magazine
deascribing how he was a feminist.
The bottom line was that the guy got his people (of Arabian Peninsula)
united to the point that they became a force to reckon with.
Jordan's rulers are Hashimites. (I have read that long time ago though
at the time, I didn't know what it all meant except that Jordan's late
King Hussein was a direct decendant of Mohammad.) I wouldn't be
surprised if the House of Saud is Ummayad. Or they could be
Abassids. Abbasids or Ummayyads, they're both corrupt. I don't know
which one started this harem thing, marrying thousands of women.
If you are confused reading all this..shrug. I like History (of old
time especially) and so I put pieces of what I read to get a big
picture.
Mark N
> On Feb 19, 10:39 pm, Malrassic Park <male...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:02:08 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
>>>Objectivist, they worship a
>>>meteorite."
>>
>>Sunnah!
>
> What?
That's Mal-ese for "You're right." :-)
Mark
x
x
Malrassic Park
wrote:
Haha, I wrote both that they worship a meteor and that they worship at
a meteor land site - and of course that foreigner chose to pick on the
one she considered the worse factually.
But all she accomplishes is making Islam look like a meteor-kissing
bizarre cult, which is what it is.
Manda Ruby
> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:29:54 -0800, Mark N <m...@myinboxisbroken.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Manda Ruby wrote:
>
> >> On Feb 19, 10:39 pm, Malrassic Park <male...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 19:02:08 -0800, Manda Ruby <manda.r...@gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
>
> >>>>But you started with the sentence "Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
> >>>>Objectivist, they worship a
> >>>>meteorite."
>
> >>>Sunnah!
>
> >> What?
>
> >That's Mal-ese for "You're right." :-)
>
> >Mark
>
> Haha, I wrote both that they worship a meteor and that they worship at
> a meteor land site -
> So, now you admit that you qtrote that they worship a meteorite.
> and of course that foreigner chose to pick on the one she considered the worse factually.
Wrong as usual. The furringer stopped reading that post after she saw
"Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
Objectivist, they worship a meteorite" and decided to point out the
*clueless American* that it he was wrong.
>
> But all she accomplishes is making Islam look like a meteor-kissing
> bizarre cult, which is what it is.
Are you trying to make a distinction between Islam and Christainity by
calling Islam a cult? Beside, I wasn't trying not to make Islam look
anything other than what it really looks like which is a religion full
of ritutals and idolatrous practices.
Islam is as idolatrous as all forms of Christianity (not just
Catholism) are. If I know enough about Judaism, I'd probably be able
to make a cliam that Judaism alos as idolatrous as any other
monohsistic or non monotheistic religion in the world.
> - Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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Malrassic Park
wrote:
>On Feb 24, 11:44�am, Malrassic Park <male...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Feb 2010 11:29:54 -0800, Mark N <m...@myinboxisbroken.com>
..
..
>> and of course that foreigner chose to pick on the one she considered the worse factually.
>
>Wrong as usual. The furringer stopped reading that post after she saw
OIC, you're a lazy ferriner who stopped reading when her eyes got too
lazy to continue on.
>"Worse yet, Paul Wharton American
>Objectivist, they worship a meteorite" and decided to point out the
>*clueless American* that it he was wrong.
..
>> But all she accomplishes is making Islam look like a meteor-kissing
>> bizarre cult, which is what it is.
..
>Are you trying to make a distinction between Islam and Christainity by
>calling Islam a cult? Beside, I wasn't trying not to make Islam look
>anything other than what it really looks like which is a religion full
>of ritutals and idolatrous practices.
..
>Islam is as idolatrous as all forms of Christianity (not just
>Catholism) are. If I know enough about Judaism, I'd probably be able
>to make a cliam that Judaism alos as idolatrous as any other
>monohsistic or non monotheistic religion in the world.
I'm not comparing anything to Christianity, you are. There are a great
many factions of Christianity, how can you just say they are all
idolatrous?