Is Coriolanus homoerotic?
gdf58
I was reading Coriolanus, and I was wondering if anybody else picked up the
homo eroticism in his relationship with Aufidius, or the erotic nature of
combat. Note especially Aufidius' speach welcoming Coriolanus into his army.
I would like to know what you think - thanks
--
Nick
james doyle
In rehearsal we worked on several different ways that the Martius-Aufidius
relationship could be played.
We definitely felt that there was an element of calculation in Aufidius'
acceptance of Martius as a partner, which came across most strongly in his
scenes with the Volscian conspirators. Martius is completely oblivious to
this, we felt - he is unbending in the way he lives his life, and there is
no room in his world-view for comprehension of anyone behaving in the way
Aufidius does.
When it came to the scenes when Martius arrives at Antium (which we cut
heavily, and hence may have altered the feel substantially), our director
eventually suggested to Aufidius that he played it as if he were trying to
seduce me. It was a very strong approach, particularly as there was very
little physical contact between myself and Volumnia, so there was a deep
craving for contact and touch in Martius. That was the way we ended playing
it, and it worked well. Another long-time member of our group said it was
the best love scene she had ever seen! I'm not sure it was completely
describably as homoerotic - Martius has a need for affection, which he seeks
wherever he can find it. If you want to view the whole play as homoerotic,
you have to account for Martius's relationship with Virgilia. She is not as
weak as character as she is often portrayed (she stands up to Volumnia in
her first appearance) and there are undoubtedly moments of tenderness in the
words she and Martius share.
Hope that is of some interest
james
gdf58 <nik...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:85tf13$jek$1...@lure.pipex.net...
Caius Marcius
writes:
>Dearest Everybody,
>I was reading Coriolanus, and I was wondering if anybody else picked
up the
>homo eroticism in his relationship with Aufidius, or the erotic nature
of
>combat. Note especially Aufidius' speach welcoming Coriolanus into his
army.
>I would like to know what you think
There may be a homoerotic element there, but Elizabethan men were
considerably more demonstrative in their declarations of friendship
than we might be - look in V,ii, when Menenius tells the Volscian
sentries, "I tell thee, fellow/Thy general is my lover." Obviously,
Menenius is claiming a close personal friendship with Coriolanus, not a
homosexual dalliance.
- CMC
Susan Neill
Shakespeare Theatre in DC.?). I too was struck by Aufidius' welcoming speech to
Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think. The kind of
passion that makes me love Shakespeare. Norrie Epstein thinks there's homoerotic
tension between these two, but then, she thinks there's homoerotic tension in
almost every play...
Susan Neill
gdf58 wrote:
> Dearest Everybody,
> I was reading Coriolanus, and I was wondering if anybody else picked up the
> homo eroticism in his relationship with Aufidius, or the erotic nature of
> combat. Note especially Aufidius' speach welcoming Coriolanus into his army.
> I would like to know what you think - thanks
>
> --
> Nick
Geralyn Horton
excellent young director encouraged the actors to play
a kind of romantic/physical fascination with one
another.
I thought it worked well.
--
Geralyn Horton, Playwright
Newton, Mass. 02460
<http://www.tiac.net/users/ghorton>
Sabyha
>Funny, I was just reading this myself (anyone else seeing the play at the
>Shakespeare Theatre in DC.?). I too was struck by Aufidius' welcoming speech
>to
>Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think. The kind of
>passion that makes me love Shakespeare. Norrie Epstein thinks there's
>homoerotic
>tension between these two, but then, she thinks there's homoerotic tension in
>almost every play...
>
>Susan Neill
>
>gdf58 wrote:
>
>> Dearest Everybody,
>> I was reading Coriolanus, and I was wondering if anybody else picked up the
>> homo eroticism in his relationship with Aufidius, or the erotic nature of
>> combat. Note especially Aufidius' speach welcoming Coriolanus into his
>army.
>> I would like to know what you think - thanks
>>
>> --
>> Nick
A lot of the plays have, what can be considered homoeroticism, in them. The
first two that spring to mind are "Twelfth Night" and "Julius Caesar". The tent
scene between Brutus and Cassius is electric!
Cheers!
Jodie - Australia
"O heaven, O earth, Bear witness to this sound!"
dcb
wrote:
>Funny, I was just reading this myself (anyone else seeing the play at the
>Shakespeare Theatre in DC.?).
I'm going on Sat. Look for my thoughts on Sun/Mon. I suspect they
are going to play up the relationship with Aufidius. Some of the
literature from WST says "sexually charged rivalry."
> I too was struck by Aufidius' welcoming speech to
>Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think. The kind of
>passion that makes me love Shakespeare. Norrie Epstein thinks there's homoerotic
>tension between these two, but then, she thinks there's homoerotic tension in
>almost every play...
But this can be played as in Aristotle's idea of love. The love
between (male) friends is one of the purest things.
The same language ambiguity exists in The Merchant of Venice. WST
really played the homosexual connotations last season in this one.
Regards, Diane
--
Regards, Diane
boe...@csi.com
John W. Kennedy
> But this can be played as in Aristotle's idea of love. The love
> between (male) friends is one of the purest things.
Note, however, that this is based on the underlying Greek assumption
that women are inferior beings, useful "as baby-making machines at home
and as sacrificing machines in the temples," but not good for much else.
(Of course, in some gay circles today, that attitude hasn't changed
much.)
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri...@ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
callimachus
second book of Samuel in the King James Translation, David on the death of
Jonathan --
I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant hast thou been
unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.
Of course, another patriarchal society....
John W. Kennedy <jwke...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:38875E4B...@bellatlantic.net...
Susan Neill
like Sebastian/Antonio in 12th Night, Bassanio/Antonio (is that the Merchant's
name??) in Merchant, Ciolanus/Auphidius, Romeo/Mercutio and certainly
Achilles/Patroclus in T&C involve more than just pure "friendship" between two men.
I think there's some not-so-covert taboo breaking going on...
Susan
dcb wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:20:56 -0500, Susan Neill <vsb...@erols.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Funny, I was just reading this myself (anyone else seeing the play at the
> >Shakespeare Theatre in DC.?).
>
> I'm going on Sat. Look for my thoughts on Sun/Mon. I suspect they
> are going to play up the relationship with Aufidius. Some of the
> literature from WST says "sexually charged rivalry."
>
> > I too was struck by Aufidius' welcoming speech to
> >Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think. The kind of
> >passion that makes me love Shakespeare. Norrie Epstein thinks there's homoerotic
> >tension between these two, but then, she thinks there's homoerotic tension in
> >almost every play...
>
> But this can be played as in Aristotle's idea of love. The love
> between (male) friends is one of the purest things.
>
callimachus
call him his "lover", nudge nudge). Seriously, though, why the assumption of
eroticism? By definition there must be some sign of romantic or sexual
feeling between the two characters, and except in the case of Achilles and
Patroclus, I don't find any sign of it. How are you defining the boundary of
"pure friendship", whatever that means, so that these characters may be seen
to exceed it?
Now I think Patroclus is pretty clearly fingered (if you'll pardon the
expression) by Thersites as Achilles' "masculine whore", but the others?
Susan Neill <vsb...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:3888BF4C...@erols.com...
the...@my-deja.com
Susan Neill <vsb...@erols.com> wrote:
> Funny, I was just reading this myself (anyone else seeing the play at
the
speech to
> Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think.
The DC Shakespeare Theatre production certainly plays up the homoerotic
elements betwix Aufidius and Martius in IV.v--they end up wrestling
playfully with their shirts off. It's a jarring contrast to the
other scenes they share--they don't interact similarly anywhere else in
the play--but it's not a stretch to see this mutual admiration, however
temporary, as the result of their fierce rivalry. 'Twas well staged by
director and cast.
On the whole, this was a great production, although I don't think
Volumina quite comes across as the imposing figure that I believe she
should be. Perhaps this was intentional--Aufidius's offer of friendship
seems all the more seductive when contrast with the almost shrewish
(rather than manipulative) Volumina.
Later,
Fran
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Susan Neill
postings, which referred to Aristotle's idea of male friendship.
I just think that Antonio follows Sebastian because he's in love with him,
Antonio the Merchant is depressed because Bassanio is in love the Portia, etc.,
etc. To me, it's really not a big deal. It doesn't change the plays a whole lot,
just adds an interesting element.
Susan
callimachus wrote:
> You left out Proteus and Valentine, and Brutus/Caesar (after all, he does
> call him his "lover", nudge nudge). Seriously, though, why the assumption of
> eroticism? By definition there must be some sign of romantic or sexual
> feeling between the two characters, and except in the case of Achilles and
> Patroclus, I don't find any sign of it. How are you defining the boundary of
> "pure friendship", whatever that means, so that these characters may be seen
> to exceed it?
>
> Now I think Patroclus is pretty clearly fingered (if you'll pardon the
> expression) by Thersites as Achilles' "masculine whore", but the others?
>
> Susan Neill <vsb...@erols.com> wrote in message
> news:3888BF4C...@erols.com...
> > I tend to agree with Norrie Epstein. I think the relationships between
> characters
> > like Sebastian/Antonio in 12th Night, Bassanio/Antonio (is that the
> Merchant's
> > name??) in Merchant, Ciolanus/Auphidius, Romeo/Mercutio and certainly
> > Achilles/Patroclus in T&C involve more than just pure "friendship" between
> two men.
> > I think there's some not-so-covert taboo breaking going on...
> >
> > Susan
> >
> > dcb wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 10:20:56 -0500, Susan Neill <vsb...@erols.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Funny, I was just reading this myself (anyone else seeing the play at
> the
> > > >Shakespeare Theatre in DC.?).
> > >
> > > I'm going on Sat. Look for my thoughts on Sun/Mon. I suspect they
> > > are going to play up the relationship with Aufidius. Some of the
> > > literature from WST says "sexually charged rivalry."
> > >
> > > > I too was struck by Aufidius' welcoming speech to
> > > >Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think. The
Susan Neill
of Volumnia's performance than you did. I was somewhat disappointed in
Andrew Long as Coriolanus. He needs something more...a bigger voice, I
think. I also was annoyed at the red armbands that the plebeians wore. The
hammer and sickle were manipulative.
Susan Neill
the...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <388484D8...@erols.com>,
> Susan Neill <vsb...@erols.com> wrote:
> > Funny, I was just reading this myself (anyone else seeing the play at
> the
> > Shakespeare Theatre in DC.?). I too was struck by Aufidius' welcoming
> speech to
> > Coriolanus in Act Iv, sc.v, the best lines of the play, I think.
>
mhor...@ix.netcom.com
"homoerotic" elements into virtually every piece of literature ever written.
It is getting rather tiresome. Apparently any same-sex friendship is
automatically homoerotic. I've read critics ascribing homoerotic elements
into the relationships of the T-Birds in Grease! All I can say to this is
what a college lit teacher of mine said of people who found homoerotic
elements in the relationship between Jim and Huck in "Huckleberry Finn":
Read it again.
---------------------
-- The purpose of...government is never to do good, but simply to refrain
from doing evil.
- Robert A. Heinlein
----------
Janet T. O'Keefe
mhor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> I saw the WST production of MoV. It's become fashionable to read
> "homoerotic" elements into virtually every piece of literature ever
> written. It is getting rather tiresome. Apparently any same-sex
> friendship is automatically homoerotic.
It's not just same-sex friendships that are getting this treatment. If
you listen to the radio call in show Love Lines you will hear the hosts
tell their guests over and over that any friend of the opposite sex is
just waiting for the chance to go to bed with them and that true
friendship across genders is impossible. They also trash the idea of
same gender best friends all the time. It seems to me our society and
our media are completely denigrating the entire idea of friendship. As
someone who has two best friends, on of each gender, and believes they
are the best things in her life, this stuff really irritates me.
Janet
--
"God has unresolved family issues. He has no
time to worry about you"
The Magical Plastic Grocery Bag Site
http://www.flud.com/ass/bag.html