Spelling of Shakespeare's name
Neuendorffer
>
> I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the eighth
> grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading biographical
> writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different spellings
> of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they know it
> was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this.
He was illiterate & the people who wrote for him used their best guess:
Chacsper Shakespar Shakspeyr
Sacksper Shakespare Shakspeyre
Sakesper Shakespear Shakspurre
Sakespere Shakespeare Shakysper
Saxspere Shakespeere Shakyspere
Schackspeare Shakesper Shaskespeare
Schakespeire Shakespere Shaxberd
Schakspere Shakespeye Shaxbeper
Shachespeare Shakespeyre Shaxespere
Shackespere Shakesphear Shaxkespere
Shackspare Shakesphere Shaxkspere
Shackspear Shakesspere Shaxspeare
Shackspeer Shakispere Shaxspeer
Shackspeere Shakspear Shaxper
Shackspire Shakspeare Shaxpere
Shadspere Shakspeer Shaxsper
Shagspere Shakspeere Shaxspere
Shakaspeare Shaksper Sheakspeare
Shakesper Shakspere Shexpere
--------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Greg Reynolds
AngieMLai1 wrote:
> I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the eighth
> grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading biographical
> writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different spellings
> of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they know it
> was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this.
> Thanks!!
> Sincerely,
> Angie
Spelling was a new idea. Name any person of the era and there are likely multiple
spellings of the name.
> Richie Miller wrote:
>
> Those who believe that Tom Reedy is a shill for the Kathman-Ross
> Goon Squad need look no further for their proof.
>
> Coming soon to Omencity:
> Use a cyber-pistol to fill the head of the Sk-author of your choice with
> water and watch it explode.
Now I see you ARE Richard Kennedy, using 'Kathman-Ross,' 'Goon Squad,' and
'Sk-author' in the same lifetime.
New Wind Offer:
> He was illiterate & the people who wrote for him used their best guess:
>
> Chacsper Shakespar Shakspeyr
> Sacksper Shakespare Shakspeyre
> Sakesper Shakespear Shakspurre
> Sakespere Shakespeare Shakysper
> Saxspere Shakespeere Shakyspere
> Schackspeare Shakesper Shaskespeare
> Schakespeire Shakespere Shaxberd
> Schakspere Shakespeye Shaxbeper
> Shachespeare Shakespeyre Shaxespere
> Shackespere Shakesphear Shaxkespere
> Shackspare Shakesphere Shaxkspere
> Shackspear Shakesspere Shaxspeare
> Shackspeer Shakispere Shaxspeer
> Shackspeere Shakspear Shaxper
> Shackspire Shakspeare Shaxpere
> Shadspere Shakspeer Shaxsper
> Shagspere Shakspeere Shaxspere
> Shakaspeare Shaksper Sheakspeare
> Shakesper Shakspere Shexpere
> --------------------------------------------------------
> Art Neuendorffer
Phone books changed everything except the cock roach,
the shark, and Neuendorffer.
I'm curious about this.
Thanks!!
Sincerely,
Greg Reynolds
David Kathman
>
> I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the eighth
> grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading biographical
> writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different spellings
> of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they know it
> was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this. Thanks!!
> Sincerely,
> Angie
Spelling was not standardized in those days, especially in
handwritten documents. For an exhaustive study of the spelling
of Shakespeare's name, go to this URL, which Tom Reedy has also
given you elsewhere in this thread:
http://www.clark.net/pub/tross/ws/name1.html
Dave Kathman
dj...@ix.netcom.com
AngieMLai1
Tom Reedy
AngieMLai1 <angie...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20000323195833...@ng-cq1.news.cs.com...
Richie Miller
innocent college co-ed about the spelling of Shaxbeber's name:
> http://www.clark.net/pub/tross/ws/name1.html
He writes nothing else.
Those who believe that Tom Reedy is a shill for the Kathman-Ross Goon Squad
need look no further for their proof.
Coming soon to Omencity:
Use a cyber-pistol to fill the head of the Sk-author of your choice with
water and watch it explode. Up to six scholars or idiots may play at one
time. Choose your favorite candidate and blow him/her sky high!
Bacon Oxford Marlowe Shaksper Queen Elizabeth Kempt
David Kathman
>
> In article, tre...@cooke.net says...[in response to a question by an
> innocent college co-ed about the spelling of Shaxbeber's name:
>
> > http://www.clark.net/pub/tross/ws/name1.html
>
> He writes nothing else.
>
> Those who believe that Tom Reedy is a shill for the Kathman-Ross Goon Squad
> need look no further for their proof.
Uhhh... what? Angie asked a question, and Tom directed her to
a web page containing my article which thoroughly answers her
question. How does that have anything to do with being a "shill"
for anybody, let alone this imaginary "goon squad" of yours?
Dave Kathman
dj...@ix.netcom.com
PFStreitz
authorship controversy, whether it was the man from Stratford or the Earl of
Oxford.
Part of that issue is the name of the man from Stratford. The Stratfordian
position for years has been to say that the man from Stratford was "William
Shakespeare." and that this man is the author. However, under closer
inspection some flaws appear in this.
One, the baptism record indicates the name is "Shakspere" and further this name
or variants thereof are consistently used by his family and the man until his
death. This indicates that if the man from Stratford used the name "William
Shakespeare" on his works (if they were his) he is using a variant spelling of
his name that is not used by him or his family in other records. Why he would
choose to use a pen name that is so close to his family names, is unanswered.
Second, the first time the name "William Shakespeare" is used is in 1593 with
the publication of the poem Venus and Adonis, where it is in the dedication.
It is again in the poem Lucrece.
If you assume that the man from Stratford wrote the plays, then it is plausible
that he used a variant spelling for some unknown reason. But then for the next
five years or so, the plays are published anonymously. Why this? If this is a
young playwright trying to make his mark in the world, why should he or anyone
else not put the name on them. It certainly made commercial sense to put the
name on them because Venus and Adonis was a huge success.
You will find that the "Shakespeare" spelling was not used in Stratford on Avon
until 1598 or thereabouts. It was generally used in a business context and not
in the church records at all.
Third, when the name Shakespeare first appears on the plays, it is with a
hyphen. "Shake-speare" This is again true for the Sonnets, which are title
"Shake-speare's Sonnets."
Fourth, there are practically no "Shakspere" titles on any of the plays. I may
be wrong here though, there could be one.
I will be happy to answer any emails privately. This subject has been well
debated on this newsgroup and I don't want to go through it all again.
Further, if you find some of the responses to your post rude and obnoxious, you
are right. Those supporting the man from Stratford, don't like to be
questionned.
You should realize the name issue is just one tip of the authorship iceberg.
You might go to Yahoo, type in Shakespeare, and then go to authorship
controversy, and check out some of the sites. There are sites on all sides of
the issue.
Cheers,
paul streitz
Shakespeare or Shakspere
Church Records
1558 Sept. 15 Christening "Ione Shakspere daughter to Iohn Shakspere"
1562 Dec. 2 Christening "Margareta filia Iohannis Shakspere"
1563 April 30 Burial "Margareta filia Iohannis Shakspere"
1564 April 26 Christening "Gulielmus filius Iohannes Shakspere"
1566 Oct 13 Christening "Gibertus filius Iohannis Shakspere"
1569 April 15 Christening "Ione the daughter of Iohn Shakspere"
1571 Sept 28 Christening "Anna filia magistri Shakspere"
1574 Mar 11 Christening "Richard sonne to Mr. John Shakspeer"
1579 Apr 4 Burial "Anne daughter to Mr. John Shakspere":
1580 May 3 Christening "Edmund sonne to Mr. Iohn Shakspere"
1582 Nov 17 Marriage license " Wm Shaxpere et Anna Whateley de
Temple Grafton"
1582 Nov 28 Band of sureties "willm Shagspere one thone partie and
Ann hathwey of Stratford"
1583 May 26 Christening "Susanna daughter to William Shakspere"
1585 Feb 2 Christening "Hamnet & Iudith sonne and daughter to William
Shakspere"
1589 Burial "Margaret Sakspere, being tymes the wife of Henry Shakspere"
1596 Aug 11 Burial "Hamnet filius William Shakspere"
1601 Sept 8 Burial "Mr. Johanes Shakspear(e)"
1607 June 5 Marriage "Iohn Hall gentlema & Susanna Shaxspere"
1608 Sept 9 Burial "Mayry Shaxspere wydowe"
1612 Feb 3 Burial "Gilbertus Shakspere adolescens"
1613 Feb 4 Burial "Rich: Shakspere"
1616 April 25 Burial record "will Shakspere gent"
1616 Nov 23 Christening "Shaksper fillius Thomas Quyny gent."
1617 May 8 Burial "Shakespere fillius Tho. Quyny, gent."
1623 Aug 8 Burial "Mrs. Shakspeare."
Grant of Arms’
1596 Oct 20 Grant of arms "Iohn Shakespere of Stratford;"
motto "Shakespere, non sanz droict"
Shakspere’s Will
1616 Mar 25 Legal will In title "Willm Shackspeare of Stratford on
Avon"
with three signatures,
William Shakspere,
Willm Shakspere,
William Shakspeare
John Shakspere
1552 Apr 29 John Shakyspere" charged with making a refuse heap
1556 "Johannem Shakyspere "Johannem Shakyspere de Streforde…glover" Legal
suit
1557 "Johannem Shakespere," reference in the estate of Richard
Shakespeare
mentioning his son
1558 "Shakespeyr" "John Shakespeyr" reference as constable
1560 "Richard Shakespere" ordered to fix hedges (John’s father)
1567 "Mr. Shakespeyr," reference
1570 "John Shappere" "alias Shakespere de Stratford upon Haven."
of lending money at interest (usury)
1571 "Shakespere" January 21 1571 to April 2, 1572,
Rogers (clerk) spelled the name "Shakespere;" thereafter
"Shaxpere" (Shakespeare In Fact, Irvin Leigh Matus, pg 25)
1572 "John Shakspere" acccused of illegal wool dealing
1586 "Johannes Shaksspere" "Johannus Shakspere.., glover" stands bail for
a man
1586 "John Shagspere" struck off aldermanic rolls
1590 "Johannes Shakespere." list of tenants of the Earl of Warwick
1592 "John Shakespere" listed as not attending church
Kathman claims: I have pointed out that: (1) the spelling "Shakespeare" occurs
for William's father John in 1569 and 1574 (see *Shakespeare Quarterly* (1984
John W. Kennedy
>
> I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the eighth
> grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading biographical
> writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different spellings
> of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they know it
> was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this. Thanks!!
Unfortunately, you've triggered a response from some loonies.
Plain fact is as Dave Kathman says: orthography hadn't been invented
yet. People spelled words any damn way they wanted to. (Take a look at
any book actually printed back then, not a modern edition with the
spelling cleaned up.) Shakespeare was not illiterate, and he was not
somebody else.
--
-John W. Kennedy
-rri...@ibm.net
Compact is becoming contract
Man only earns and pays. -- Charles Williams
Greg Reynolds
"John W. Kennedy" wrote:
> AngieMLai1 wrote:
> >
> > I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the eighth
> > grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading biographical
> > writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different spellings
> > of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they know it
> > was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this. Thanks!!
>
> Unfortunately, you've triggered a response from some loonies.
>
> Plain fact is as Dave Kathman says: orthography hadn't been invented
> yet. People spelled words any damn way they wanted to. (Take a look at
> any book actually printed back then, not a modern edition with the
> spelling cleaned up.) Shakespeare was not illiterate, and he was not
> somebody else.
I see almost all their names spelled variably, even by the individual himself.
BUT, are there any variants for Elizabeth? That I don't see, not that anyone was
allowed to call her that, but was it ever spelled a different way? Even by her?
Greg Reynolds
DHE
publish this? After the publication of the First Folio?
And by the way, since Ben Jonson edited the First Folio, rather thoroughly I
suspect, the spelling used by Oxford in private letters cannot be used to
disprove authorship.
"John W. Kennedy" <jwke...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:38E605FC...@bellatlantic.net...
> AngieMLai1 wrote:
> >
> > I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the
eighth
> > grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading
biographical
> > writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different
spellings
> > of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they
know it
> > was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this.
Thanks!!
>
> Unfortunately, you've triggered a response from some loonies.
>
> Plain fact is as Dave Kathman says: orthography hadn't been invented
> yet. People spelled words any damn way they wanted to. (Take a look at
> any book actually printed back then, not a modern edition with the
> spelling cleaned up.) Shakespeare was not illiterate, and he was not
> somebody else.
>
BobGr...@nut-n-but.net
"DHE" <sagew...@usa.net> wrote:
> Wasn't it Ben Jonson who developed the first English dictionary? When
did he
> publish this? After the publication of the First Folio?
>
> And by the way, since Ben Jonson edited the First Folio, rather
thoroughly I
> suspect, the spelling used by Oxford in private letters cannot be used
to
> disprove authorship.
Ah, you're back, Stephanie. I was wondering what happened to you.
--Bob G.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
merrill...@my-deja.com
"DHE" <sagew...@usa.net> wrote:
> Wasn't it Ben Jonson who developed the first English dictionary? When
did he
> publish this? After the publication of the First Folio?
>
Tom Reedy
"DHE" <sagew...@usa.net> wrote:
> Wasn't it Ben Jonson who developed the first English dictionary? When
> did he publish this? After the publication of the First Folio?
>
> thoroughly I suspect, the spelling used by Oxford in private letters
> cannot be used to disprove authorship.
>
No, it was not Ben Jonson who developed the first English dictionary
(whatever "developed" means).
.
Samuel Johnson edited a dictionary in 1746-47, but it was hardly the
first one. There were at least a half dozen English dictionaries
published before then.
.
And by the way, Samuel Jonson did not edit the First Folio, either
sloppily or thoroughly, despite your suspicions.
.
TR
DHE
dictionary, they needed one.
"Tom Reedy" <tre...@cooke.net> wrote in message
news:8c6prs$d2v$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Tom Reedy
"DHE" <sagew...@usa.net> wrote:
> It was Ben Jonson who edited the First Folio. Too bad he didn't work
> on a dictionary, they needed one.
>
with proof of this. When are you going to publish your findings?
.
Or are you just parroting someone else's unsubtantiated remark? In
which case, no, Ben Jonson did not edit the First Folio.
JPWearing
>with proof of this. When are you going to publish your findings?
>.
>Or are you just parroting someone else's unsubtantiated remark? In
>which case, no, Ben Jonson did not edit the First Folio.
>.
>TR
If I remember correctly, the notion of Jonson editing F1 occurs in "Who Were
Shake-speare." The evidence and logic of the book tends to match the grammar of
its title.
John W. Kennedy
>
> "John W. Kennedy" wrote:
>
> > AngieMLai1 wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been interested in Shakespeare since reading "Hamlet" in the eighth
> > > grade (now I'm in college), but just recently I have begun reading biographical
> > > writings on him. I was curious as to why there were so many different spellings
> > > of the last name (e.g., Shaxsper, etc.). Does anyone know? How did they know it
> > > was the same person with so many variations? I'm curious about this. Thanks!!
> >
> > Unfortunately, you've triggered a response from some loonies.
> >
> > Plain fact is as Dave Kathman says: orthography hadn't been invented
> > yet. People spelled words any damn way they wanted to. (Take a look at
> > any book actually printed back then, not a modern edition with the
> > spelling cleaned up.) Shakespeare was not illiterate, and he was not
> > somebody else.
>
> BUT, are there any variants for Elizabeth? That I don't see, not that anyone was
> allowed to call her that, but was it ever spelled a different way? Even by her?
While there was no orthography, there _were_ conventions -- otherwise,
no-one could write or read at all. "Elizabeth" happens to be possessed
of particularly strong and unambiguous sounds; about the only possible
variants I can think of (but I'm not a scholar) would have been
"Ilizabeth" and "Elisabeth". The first would have been ruled out by the
omnipresent "E.R.", but the second, I dare say, may well have appeared.
John W. Kennedy
>
> In article <OpyF4.2071$sO4.2...@news-east.usenetserver.com>,
> "DHE" <sagew...@usa.net> wrote:
> > Wasn't it Ben Jonson who developed the first English dictionary? When
> did he
> > publish this? After the publication of the First Folio?
> >
I'm sure that's what "DHE" was thinking of, though Johnson's wasn't
actually the first, albeit it was the first that can be called a
reasonably scholarly production (despite "oats" and "Whig").
John W. Kennedy
>
> In article <t1JF4.6460$sO4.7...@news-east.usenetserver.com>,
> "DHE" <sagew...@usa.net> wrote:
> > It was Ben Jonson who edited the First Folio. Too bad he didn't work
> > on a dictionary, they needed one.
> >
> with proof of this. When are you going to publish your findings?
> .
> Or are you just parroting someone else's unsubtantiated remark? In
> which case, no, Ben Jonson did not edit the First Folio.
(The funniest part of this, of course, is that if he _had_, he would
have done a much better job -- as Professor Peter Schikele said of the
suggestion that the works of P.D.Q. Bach were actually composed by
Marlowe.)