X-rays uncover 'hidden portrait' of Henry Wriothesley
Lyra
(quote_)
X-rays uncover 'hidden portrait'
A rare portrait, believed to be of Shakespeare's only known patron,
has been discovered using X-ray technology.
Art historians from Bristol University have found what they believe is
a picture of Henry Wriothesley which was painted over in the 16th
Century.
To the naked eye, it is a portrait of his wife Elizabeth Vernon,
dressed in black and wearing ruby ear-rings.
The hidden picture was uncovered when the work was X-rayed in
preparation for an exhibition in Somerset.
Radiography revealed that underneath the oil portrait of Elizabeth I's
maid of honour was a ghostly male figure - an older work which had
been painted over.
Flamboyant appearance
From the man's flamboyant appearance and long auburn hair, experts
believe it shows Vernon's husband, Henry Wriothesley, the third Earl
of Southampton.
He was Shakespeare's only known patron and experts said finding the
picture was a significant discovery, although there are no plans to
chip away the portrait of his wife to uncover him properly.
It is thought the unknown artist painted over the image, possibly
because a commission for a double portrait of husband and wife was
abandoned in favour of the single portrait seen today.
The painting is one of 12 to be seen in the display - entitled On the
Nature of Women: Tudor and Jacobean Portraits of Women 1535-1620 - at
Montacute House in Somerset.
Among other discoveries are a portrait thought to be of Margaret
Douglas, Countess of Lennox, who was Mary Queen of Scots's mother-in-
law and one believed to be of Lady Jane Grey, both of which have not
been seen in public for more than 70 years.
It is the first display for the National Trust and the National
Portrait Gallery to have been curated by university students.
Lyra
Lyra wrote:
(quote)
Students discover 'ghost figure' in portrait thought to be
Shakespeare's patron
Last updated at 14:16pm on 29th April 2008
Students curating a display of Tudor portraits uncovered a "ghost
figure", which could be William Shakespeare's only known patron.
The group from Bristol University had one of the paintings x-rayed for
a display at Montacute House in Somerset, when a secret portrait was
revealed.
The National Portrait Gallery said the figure may be Henry
Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton and Shakespeare's "man of the
sonnets".
Scroll down for more...
Tudor portrait
Underneath a portrait of Elizabeth Vernon (left), students discovered
the figure of a man thought to be Henry Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of
Southampton
It was painted over with an image of his wife Elizabeth Vernon, who
was a maid of honour to Queen Elizabeth I.
Vernon was painted in her 40s by an unknown artists and she wore a
black dress slashed to reveal scarlet fabric.
The male figure is lower and to the right of the existing portrait and
it closely resembles the composition of portraits of Wriothesley,
which was made around the same time said the National Portrait
Gallery.
Some of the paintings of the 3rd Earl of Southampton have been
attributed to the Dutch artist Paul van Somer.
A spokesman for the National Portrait Gallery said: "It is thought
that the unknown artist of this portrait painted over the image,
possibly because a commission for a double portrait of husband and
wife was abandoned in favour of the single portrait seen today.
"Another very similar version of this portrait, attributed to van
Somer, exists at Sherborne Castle, Dorset, very close to Montacute
House, where this portrait can now be seen."
Wriothesley, known for his flamboyant appearance, was a favourite of
Elizabeth I and was the only known patron of Shakespeare, who
dedicated his poem Venus and Adonis to him.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=562746&in_page_id=1770
> (quote)
Art Neuendorffer
>
> (quote)
>
> Students discover 'ghost figure' in portrait thought to be
> Shakespeare's patron
>
> Last updated at 14:16pm on 29th April 2008
>
> Students curating a display of Tudor portraits uncovered a "ghost
> figure", which could be William Shakespeare's only known patron.
>
> The group from Bristol University had one of the paintings x-rayed for
> a display at Montacute House in Somerset, when a secret portrait
> was revealed.
>
> The National Portrait Gallery said the figure may be Henry
> Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton and Shakespeare's
> "man of the sonnets".
>
> discovered the figure of a man thought to be
> Henry Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton
>
> It was painted over with an image of his wife Elizabeth Vernon,
> who was a maid of honour to Queen Elizabeth I.
>
> Vernon was painted in her 40s by an unknown artists and
> she wore a black dress slashed to reveal scarlet fabric.
>
> The male figure is lower and to the right of the existing portrait and
> it closely resembles the composition of portraits of Wriothesley,
> which was made around the same time said the
> National Portrait Gallery.
>
> Some of the paintings of the 3rd Earl of Southampton have
> been attributed to the Dutch artist Paul van Somer.
>
> A spokesman for the National Portrait Gallery said: "It is thought
> that the unknown artist of this portrait painted over the image,
> possibly because a commission for a double portrait of husband and
> wife was abandoned in favour of the single portrait seen today.
>
> "Another very similar version of this portrait, attributed to van
> Somer, exists at Sherborne Castle, Dorset, very close
> to Montacute House, where this portrait can now be seen."
>
> Wriothesley, known for his flamboyant appearance, was a favourite
> of Elizabeth I and was the only known patron of Shakespeare,
> who dedicated his poem Venus and Adonis to him.
>
> > of which have not been seen in public for more than 70 years.
>
> > It is the first display for the National Trust and the National
> > Portrait Gallery to have been curated by university students.
>
> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7372629.stm
Alright....there never was an Elizabeth Vernon!
------------------------------------------------------
B S wrote:
>
> A she or not a she... that is the question for Shakespeare
> Arts: the full story Anthony Holden
> Sunday April 21, 2002 _The Observer_
> Fresh light has been thrown on William Shakespeare's sexual
> orientation by the discovery of a previously unknown portrait of
> the playwright's patron, Henry Wriothesley, 3rd Earl of Southampton
> - apparently dressed as a woman.
> Believed to be the 'fair youth' to whom Shakespeare's early sonnets are
> addressed, Southampton is wearing lipstick, rouge and an elaborate
> double earring. His long hair hangs down in voguish feminine tresses
> and his hand lies on his heart in a rather camp gesture.
> The picture goes on display today - two days before the 438th
> anniversary of Shakespeare's birth - at Hatchlands Park, a National
> Trust property in East Clandon, Surrey, where it was found. It has been
> authenticated by experts and dated to 1590-93, when Shakespeare was
> living in the Southampton household and writing sonnets to the
> 'master-mistress of my passion'.
> For 300 years the painting has belonged to the aristocratic Cobbe
> family, the present occupants of Hatchlands, whose connections with the
> Southamptons have been traced back to the Elizabethan era and beyond.
> 'My family always believed it to be a dull portrait of a female ancestor
> called Lady Norton,' says Alec Cobbe, who inherited the picture among
> his family's collection now displayed at Hatchlands, For centuries the
> picture occupied obscure corners of the family home in Ireland. In
> Cobbe's lifetime it has been back and forth between his homes
> in Ireland and England.
> The National Trust's adviser on art and sculpture, Alastair Laing, who
> first suggested to Cobbe that the portrait was of a young man,
> declares himself 'entirely convinced' of the painting's authenticity and
> provenance. 'It is a very exciting discovery,' he said. Literary scholar
> Sir Frank Kermode also believes it to be a 'remarkable'
> and 'historic' discovery.
> Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2002
-------------------------------------------------------------
"lyra" <mountain_qu...@RockAthens.com> wrote:
> on page
> http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
> there is a picture of
> Elizabeth nee Vernon,
> married to Southampton,
> that reminded me a lot
> of the recently-discovered
> "Southampton" portrait...
> maybe the portrait was of her,
> not the Earl?
> tho', their hair is remarkably similar...
> like seeing a gender switch!
> "Orlando" (by Virginia Woolf), etc.!
--------------------------------------
Excellent, mountain queen lyra!!
.
Southampton's ALDER ego.
.
(Gaullish VERN => "place of ALDERS)
.
Compare with a young lipsticked Southampton:
.
http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4398248,00.html
.
http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
.
. long fingers <=> long fingers
.
. right hand right hand
. pointing up <=> pointing down
.
. Bible <=> Prayer book?
.
. black attire <=> white attire
.
black cat on table <=> white rabbit on ground
-----------------------------------------
suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.
There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did
Alice think it so very much out of the way to hear the
Rabbit say to itself, 'Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!'
--------------------------------------------
CHAPTER 1
Looking-Glass house
One thing was certain, that the WHITE kitten had had
nothing to do with it:--it was the black kitten's fault entirely.
. . . . .
`And as for YOU,' she went on, turning fiercely upon the Red Queen,
whom she considered as the cause of all the mischief--but the Queen
was no longer at her side--she had suddenly dwindled down to the size
of a little doll, and was now on the table, merrily running round and
round after her own shawl,
which was trailing behind her. At any other time, Alice would have
felt surprised at this, but she was far too much excited to be
surprised at anything NOW. `As for YOU,' she repeated, catching hold
of the little creature in the very act of jumping over a bottle which
had just lighted upon the table, `I'll
shake you into a kitten, that I will!'
CHAPTER X
Shaking
She took her off the table as she spoke,
and shook her backwards and forwards with all her might.
The Red Queen made no resistance whatever;
only her face grew very small, and her eyes got large and green:
and still, as Alice went on shaking her, she kept on growing
shorter--and fatter--and softer--and rounder--and--
CHAPTER XI
Waking
--and it really WAS a kitten, after all.
CHAPTER XII
Which Dreamed it?
`Your majesty shouldn't purr so loud,' Alice said, rubbing her eyes,
and addressing the kitten, respectfully, yet with some severity.
`You woke me out of oh! such a nice dream! And you've been
along with me, Kitty- -all through the Looking-Glass world.
Did you know it, dear?'
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> http://www.gunpowder-plot.org/d7001/g0000138.htm
>> Sir Edward STANLEY of TONGe Castle, Shropshire.
>> Father: Thomas STANLEY Mother: Margaret VERNON
>> 1534 Margaret VERNON, the last Prioress
>> for the Nunnery at Little MARLOW
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> OL. *TONGere* (to know)
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
Mountain Queen "lyra" <mountain_qu...@RockAthens.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe they are part of the same Vernon family
> as Southampton's wife?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Henry Wriothesley was grandson of Thomas (1505-1550)
1st Baron Wriothesley of Titchfield & Earl of Southampton
Ambassador to HUNGARY and chief secretary to Henry VIII
MARY BROWNE --- Henry Wriothesley
| (Southampton)
|
Henry Wriothesley ----- Elizabeth VERNon
(1573-1624) | {Gaullish VERN => "place of ALDERS}
|
|
Lady Penelope ---- William Spencer
(1598-1667) | 2nd Baron Spencer
| (1591-1636)
|
John 1st Baron CRAVEN --- ELIZAbeth --- Henry Howard
d.1650 d.1650
---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.hants.gov.uk/newforesthistory/beaulieu.htm
A Brief History of Beaulieu by Jeremy Greenwood
<<At the Dissolution, the abbey was partially demolished to provide
building materials for nearby Hurst castle. Henry VIII granted
Beaulieu (and much other property) in 1538 to Thomas Wriothesley, 1st
Earl of Southampton. For his diplomatic efforts, he was created (1544)
(Baron Wriothesley and made Lord Chancellor - an office in which he
became notorious for his severity. Protector Somerset gave Wriothesley
the earldom of Southampton. The Hampshire estates were centred on
Titchfield, another former abbey, which was the family's main house.
He was succeeded by his son Henry, who became the 2nd Earl in 1550
and who remained a Catholic throughout his life and was, in
consequence, imprisoned in the Tower for a spell. His otherwise
uneventful life was marred by excessive expenditure so that many of
the bequests in his will could not be carried out. Even so, his will
of 1581 ordered 'two faire monuments' to be set up in Titchfield
church to consist of 'portraitures of white alabaster, one for my
lorde my father and my ladye my mother, the other for mee'. Although
only made for about 15% of the sum bequeathed for the purpose, it
remains a magnificent tomb sculpted in 1594 by GERARD JOHNSON, a
Flemish refugee. The 2nd, 3rd & 4th Earls were also later interred in
the vault .
Henry Wriothesley, 3rd earl of Southampton, (1573-1624) was the second
son of Henry, 2nd Earl of Southampton and his wife Mary Browne
(daughter
of the 1st Viscount Montague) and succeeded to his title in 1581
before he had attained his eighth birthday, and consequently became,
and remained until his majority, a ward of the Crown under Lord
Burghley. Towards the end of 1585 he became a student at St. John's
College, Cambridge, from whence he graduated as M.A. in 1589. Early in
this year, or possibly while Southampton was still at Cambridge,
Burghley had opened negotiations with the Countess of Southampton with
the object of uniting the interests and fortunes of her son with his
own house, by a marriage with his own granddaughter, Lady ELIZABETH
VERE, daughter of the Earl of Oxford.
In 1598 he was in disgrace as he had married his pregnant mistress,
ELIZABETH VER-non, one of the Queen's ladies in waiting, without the
Queen's permission. He further attracted royal opprobrium during the
Irish campaign. A friend of Robert DEVEREAUX, 2nd Earl of Essex,
Southampton accompanied Essex to Ireland in 1599 as general of the
HORSE, but Elizabeth revoked his appointment.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
John VERNON ----- Elizabeth DEVEREAUX.
|
Elizabeth VERNON----- Henry Wriothesley
died after 23 Nov 1655
--------------------------------------------------------
<<Was [Southampton] homosexual?
The unrealiable William Reynolds wrote that Southampton
lived in a tent in Ireland with PIERS Edmondes, a brother officer,
and the earle Sowthamton would cole and huge [embrace & hug]
him in his arms and play wantonly with him. Reynolds expected to be
believed, but even if we dismiss that report, there are signs enough
that the young earl preferred bisexual or homosexual friends.>>
- p. 177, _Shakespeare_ by Honan.
-------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.hants.gov.uk/newforesthistory/beaulieu.htm
<< [Henry Wriothesley] was closely involved in DEVEREAUX's
Essex's rebellion (1601) and was sentenced to death,
but this sentence was changed to life imprisonment.>>
Upon the accession (1603) of James I,
Southampton was released and restored to favour and the Beaulieu
estates were regranted to him. However he fell out with the king's
favourite, the Duke of Buckingham, in 1619 and left the court.
[Henry Wriothesley] conceived the idea of reclaiming the salt marshes
between Titchfield & the sea. A *SEA WALL*
across the mouth of the Meon was completed in 1611,
and since that time Titchfield Haven has been fresh or brackish,
although the sea has occasionally broken back in during storms.
The reclamation spelt the doom of Titchfield as a port, even though
a canal was built, and the town sank into a centuries-long decline.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3d earl of Southampton, Henry Wriothesley, [ROT'slE]
http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/people/A0846028.html
<<Southampton, Henry Wriothesley, 3d earl of , 1573-1624, English
nobleman and patron of letters. He succeeded to his title in 1581, was
educated at Cambridge, and gained favor at the court of Queen
Elizabeth
I. A generous patron of such writers as Barnabe Barnes, Thomas Nash,
and
John Florio, he is best known as the patron of William Shakespeare,
who
dedicated Venus and Adonis (1593) and The Rape of Lucrece (1594) to
him.
Some scholars have maintained that Southampton is the patron and
friend
described in Shakespeare's sonnets. A friend of Robert Devereux, 2d
earl
of Essex, Southampton accompanied him on military and naval
expeditions
in 1596 and 1597. His secret marriage (1598) to Elizabeth Vernon, one
of
Elizabeth's ladies in waiting, angered the queen greatly, and she
never
forgave him. Southampton accompanied Essex to Ireland in 1599 as
general
of the HORSE, but Elizabeth revoked his appointment. He was closely
involved in Essex's rebellion (1601) and was sentenced to death, but
this sentence was changed to life imprisonment. Upon the accession
(1603) of James I, Southampton was released and restored to favor. He
became interested in colonial explorations and was a member of the
Virginia Company and of the British East India Company. Although his
impetuosity involved him in a number of court brawls, Southampton
became (1619) a privy councilor. He lost favor, however, because of
his
opposition to the 1st duke of Buckingham. In 1624 he volunteered, with
his son James, to lead a troop of English volunteers to fight for the
Netherlands against Spain. Shortly after arriving in the Netherlands,
both Southampton and his son died of fever.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
nordicskiv2
<95019058-1168-46b1...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
Art Neuendorffer <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
(aneuendor...@comicass.nut) wrote:
No, Art; she was his altar ego -- his wife.
But I'm surprised that you didn't pursue the obvious lunacy that
the name suggests. The alder-king of Teutonic folklore became (in
Herder's translation, and later in Goethe's celebrated poem) "Erlking"
in German -- but the word is a homophone of "Earl-king," suggesting
that the Earl of Oxford was the rightful heir to the throne, as Mr.
Streitz and many other Tudor heir nutcas...err...eccentrics propose.
> (Gaullish VERN => "place of ALDERS)
> .
> Compare with a young lipsticked Southampton:
Better that than a young dipsticked Orazio Cogno.
> http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4398248,00.html
> .
> http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
> .
> . long fingers <=> long fingers
> .
> . right hand right hand
> . pointing up <=> pointing down
Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if it's pointed in the other
direction. After all it has to point *somewhere*. But perhaps your
point is that both sitters have right hands -- that's a parallel that
seems pretty typical for desperate anti-Stratfordian nutcases.
> . Bible <=> Prayer book?
> .
> . black attire <=> white attire
Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if the attire is a different
color. But perhaps your point is that both sitters were attired --
that's a parallel that seems pretty typical for desperate anti-
Stratfordian nutcases.
> black cat on table <=> white rabbit on ground
Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if the animals are different
species. In fact, they don't even belong to the same order: rabbits
are lagomorphs, while cats belong to the order carnivora. And it
*certainly* isn't a parallel if moreoVER they are different colors!
> suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.
> There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did
> Alice think it so very much out of the way to hear the
> Rabbit say to itself, 'Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!'
"All-ass in Blunderland" would be a better source for you to quote,
Art.
[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
Art Neuendorffer
>> "lyra" <mountain_qu...@RockAthens.com> wrote:
>
>>>http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
>
>>> there is a picture of
>>> Elizabeth nee Vernon,
>>> married to Southampton,
>>> that reminded me a lot
>>> of the recently-discovered
>>> "Southampton" portrait...
>>> maybe the portrait was of her,
>>> not the Earl?
>>> tho', their hair is remarkably similar...
>>> like seeing a gender switch!
>>> "Orlando" (by Virginia Woolf), etc.!
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>> Excellent, mountain queen lyra!!
>> .
>> Southampton's ALDER ego.
Bullshit, Dave! Gay Southampton would have....
___ *NON(e of) ELIZABETH VER* ...i.e.,
___ *ELIZABETH VER-NON*
It's a joke *NOT* a marriage.
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> But I'm surprised that you didn't pursue the obvious lunacy that
> the name suggests. The alder-king of Teutonic folklore became (in
> Herder's translation, and later in Goethe's celebrated poem) "Erlking"
> in German -- but the word is a homophone of "Earl-king," suggesting
> that the Earl of Oxford was the rightful heir to the throne,
.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> (Gaullish VERN => "place of *ALDERS* )
-------------------------------------------
<<The Seven *CHIEFTAIN* trees:
Oak, Hazel, Holly, Yew, Ash, Pine, Apple
The Seven *PEASANT* trees:
*ALDER* , *WILLOW* , Hawthorn, ROwan, Birch, Elm, ? >>
The triumph of Gwydion's ash over Bran's *ALDER* at the Cad Goddue:
the ash is the only tree mentioned in connection with royalty
and the alder has been degraded to the status of *PEASANT* .>>
- p 203 _The White Goddess_ by RObert Graves.
-----------------------------------------------------------
QUEEN GERTRUDE: There is a *WILLOW* grows aslant a BROOK,
_ That shows his *HOAR LEAVes in the GLASSy* stream;
_ There with fantastic GARLANDS did she come
_ There, on the PEN-DENT boughs her coronet weeds
.
_ *CLAMBERING TO HANG, AN ENVIOUS SLIVER BROKE*
.
_- V E R O N I L V E R I U S
________ L
________ E
________ N
________ K
________ C
________ N
_________ I
________ R
________ B
___- A G N E S B O G A
________ A
________ M
________ O
________ H
________ T
---------------------------------------------------
_ *AGNES* : chaste (Greek) [Diana]
_ *BOGA* : Bough (Anglo-Saxon) [Golden]
-------------------------------------------
.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> Compare with a young lipsticked Southampton:
>>
>> http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4398248,00.html
>> .
>> http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
>> .
>> . long fingers <=> long fingers
>> .
>> . right hand right hand
>> . pointing up <=> pointing down
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if it's pointed in
> the other direction. After all it has to point *somewhere*.
.
It doesn't have to point at all;
it's not polite to point and, besides,
there is left & right and in & out.
.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> . Bible <=> Prayer book?
>> .
>> . black attire <=> white attire
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel
> if the attire is a different color.
Up/Down, Black/White...are the concepts to profound for you, Dave?
.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> black cat on table <=> white rabbit on ground
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if the animals are different
> species. In fact, they don't even belong to the same order: rabbits
> are lagomorphs, while cats belong to the order carnivora. And it
> *certainly* isn't a parallel if moreoVER they are different colors!
.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.
>> There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did
>> Alice think it so very much out of the way to hear the
>> Rabbit say to itself, 'Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!'
Art Neuendorffer
nordicskiv2
<76298482-2ae9-4197...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Art Neuendorffer <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
(aneuendor...@comicass.nut) wrote:
> >>------------------------------------------------
> >> "lyra" <mountain_qu...@RockAthens.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
> >
> >>> there is a picture of
> >>> Elizabeth nee Vernon,
> >>> married to Southampton,
> >>> that reminded me a lot
> >>> of the recently-discovered
> >>> "Southampton" portrait...
> >>> maybe the portrait was of her,
> >>> not the Earl?
> >>> tho', their hair is remarkably similar...
> >>> like seeing a gender switch!
> >>> "Orlando" (by Virginia Woolf), etc.!
> >> --------------------------------------
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> Excellent, mountain queen lyra!!
> >> .
> >> Southampton's ALDER ego.
> --------------------------------------
> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > No, Art; she was his altar ego -- his wife.
> Bullshit,
You're getting repetitive, Art -- that's what you always post.
> Dave! Gay Southampton
What makes you think (if I may use the word in reference to you)
that, Art?
> would have....
> ___ *NON(e of) ELIZABETH VER* ...i.e.,
> ___ *ELIZABETH VER-NON*
>
> It's a joke *NOT* a marriage.
They had seven children, Art.
> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > But I'm surprised that you didn't pursue the obvious lunacy that
> > the name suggests. The alder-king of Teutonic folklore became (in
> > Herder's translation, and later in Goethe's celebrated poem) "Erlking"
> > in German -- but the word is a homophone of "Earl-king," suggesting
> > that the Earl of Oxford was the rightful heir to the throne,
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> (Gaullish VERN => "place of *ALDERS* )
> -------------------------------------------
> <<The Seven *CHIEFTAIN* trees:
> Oak, Hazel, Holly, Yew, Ash, Pine, Apple
>
> The Seven *PEASANT* trees:
> *ALDER* , *WILLOW* , Hawthorn, ROwan, Birch, Elm, ? >>
I wouldn't pursue this direction any further if I were you, Art --
you don't want to get Faker aroused.
Besides, what about the pecan, walnut, etc.? Those seem more apt
for your researches.
["Agnes Boga" lunatic logorrhea snipped]
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> Compare with a young lipsticked Southampton:
But Art -- what about the young dipsticked Orazio Cogno?
> >> http://www.observer.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4398248,00.html
> >> .
> >> http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
> >> .
> >> . long fingers <=> long fingers
> >> .
> >> . right hand right hand
> >> . pointing up <=> pointing down
> .
> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if it's pointed in
> > the other direction. After all it has to point *somewhere*.
> It doesn't have to point at all;
> it's not polite to point and, besides,
> there is left & right and in & out.
Huh? That last sentence sounds positively Streitzian. (Don't send
it to Lehigh, Art.)
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> . Bible <=> Prayer book?
> >> .
> >> . black attire <=> white attire
> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel
> > if the attire is a different color.
> Up/Down, Black/White...are the concepts to [sic] profound for you, Dave?
Is English your native tongue, Art?
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> black cat on table <=> white rabbit on ground
> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Then it plainly *isn't* a parallel if the animals are different
> > species. In fact, they don't even belong to the same order: rabbits
> > are lagomorphs, while cats belong to the order carnivora. And it
> > *certainly* isn't a parallel if moreoVER they are different colors!
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> suddenly a White Rabbit with pink eyes ran close by her.
> >> There was nothing so very remarkable in that; nor did
> >> Alice think it so very much out of the way to hear the
> >> Rabbit say to itself, 'Oh dear! Oh dear! I shall be late!'
More of your trademark Malice in Blunderland, Art?
> Art Neuendorffer
Art Neuendorffer
>>>> "lyra" <mountain_qu...@RockAthens.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>http://roundtable.iwarp.com/photo6.html
>
>>>>> there is a picture of
>>>>> Elizabeth nee Vernon,
>>>>> married to Southampton,
>>>>> that reminded me a lot
>>>>> of the recently-discovered
>>>>> "Southampton" portrait...
>>>>> maybe the portrait was of her,
>>>>> not the Earl?
>>>>> tho', their hair is remarkably similar...
>>>>> like seeing a gender switch!
>>>>> "Orlando" (by Virginia Woolf), etc.!
>>>> --------------------------------------
>>> Neuendorffer wrote:
>
>>>> Excellent, mountain queen lyra!!
>>>> .
>>>> Southampton's ALDER ego.
>> --------------------------------------
>> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
>>> No, Art; she was his altar ego -- his wife.
> Art Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> Gay Southampton...
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> What makes you think that, Art?
.
As we used to say back at MIT:
"It's obvious to the most casual obsERVEr."
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Henry_Wriothesley,_3rd_Earl_of_Southampton.jpg
<<During his time in the Irish wars, it was reported to Cecil that
[Southampton] saw most of his active service in bed with a captain
Piers Edmunds - he would "cole and hug" his captain in his arms, and
"play wantonly" with him. >>
.
> Art Neuendorffer wrote:
>>
>> ...would have....
>> ___ *NON(e of) ELIZABETH VER* ...i.e.,
>> ___ *ELIZABETH VER-NON*
>
>> It's a joke *NOT* a marriage.
.
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> They had seven children, Art.
---------------------------------------------------------
<<In 1598 Henry Wriothesley married *ELIZABETH VER-NON* , the daughter
of John Vernon of Hodnet by his wife *Elizabeth DEVEREux* . *Elizabeth
DEVEREux's* grandfathers were the Viscount *HERE-FORD* and the *Earl
of Huntingdon* ; on her father John's side, Elizabeth's family *were
more obscure* .
Henry and Elizabeth married while "...she was already highly
pregnant". Recent speculation advances the possibility that their
eldest child was actually by William Shakespeare.
Henry and Elizabeth had several children including:
1. Penelope Wriothesley who married William Spencer,
. 2nd Lord Spencer of *WORMleighton* ;
2. an elder son who died shortly before his father in the Netherlands;
3. Thomas Wriothesley b 1608 who became the 4th Earl Southampton;
4. Anne Wriothesley who married Robert Wallop of Farley Wallop.
Wallops Island proper, originally known as Kegotank Island,
was granted to John Wallop by the Crown on April 29, 1692.
---------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
nordicskiv2
<8a06d065-27a1-4b6f...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Art Neuendorffer <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
(aneuendor...@comicass.nut) wrote:
[...]
> >> Gay Southampton...
> nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> > What makes you think that, Art?
> As we used to say back at MIT:
> "It's obvious to the most casual obsERVEr."
Well, if anyone is to be denominated "the most casual observer," it
would certainly have to be you, Art -- your casual observations are a
bit like what Alan Jones characterized as Elizabeth's "casual
reading." That may be the way things are done at MIT (although I
doubt it), but at Lehigh more care is taken. However, many things
that are "obvious" to such a comically casual observer as you or
Elizabeth are demonstrably false, Art -- a more careful observer would
not ascribe to the number 19 any particular significance because it
was the sum of two consecutive integers and the difference of their
squares. A less casual observer would not infer, from the death of a
middle-aged industrial plant manager named Peter A. Gay that the
distinguished Emeritus Yale historian Peter J. Gay had perished,
particular since the latter is a quarter century older than the
former. A less casual observer would not have identified Anne
Hathaway as Shakespeare's mother.
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Henry_Wriothesley,_3rd_Earl_of_Southam
> pton.jpg
>
> <<During his time in the Irish wars, it was reported to Cecil that
> [Southampton] saw most of his active service in bed with a captain
> Piers Edmunds - he would "cole and hug" his captain in his arms, and
> "play wantonly" with him. >>
Of course, even if true, this does not mean that Southampton was
gay. Have you eVER heard of bisexuality, Art? No, probably you
haven't.
> > Art Neuendorffer wrote:
> >>
> >> ...would have....
> >> ___ *NON(e of) ELIZABETH VER* ...i.e.,
> >> ___ *ELIZABETH VER-NON*
> >
> >> It's a joke
Yes, your reading is certainly a joke, Art -- but you are by no
means alone among anti-Stratfordians in that respect.
[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
Art Neuendorffer
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/6o4dyw
>
> > <<During his time in the Irish wars, it was reported to Cecil that
> > [Southampton] saw most of his active service in bed with a captain
> > Piers Edmunds - he would "cole and hug" his captain in his arms, and
> > "play wantonly" with him. >>
nordicskiv2 <David.L.W...@dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Of course, even if true, this does not mean that Southampton
> was gay. Have you eVER heard of bisexuality, Art?
We've all heard of it but apparently bisexuals
are too rare to have even formed their own group.
More likely, gays marry the opposite sex:
1) to conform,
2) to look respectable and
3) to have children.
Mostly, gay men just keep cats for companions.
Art N.