Was Shakespeare a Drunk?
Alkibiades
>Was Shakespeare a Drunk?
>
>Since I never give serious consideration to the biography of Willy, I
>was surprised to notice that Harold Bloom seems to believe that Willy
>not only died drunk...as the famous story goes, but was an alcoholic!
>
>He cites the Feste's swan song (v,i,388-408) and suggests it might
>apply to Willy.
>
>So what is the orthodox position on Willy?
>
>Was he an alcoholic?
>
>If so where is the evidence in the works?
>
>Baker
Came across this on the C-SPAN booknotes.org web site archive,
transcription of Prof. Joyce Appleby (UCLA, History) interviewed by
Brian Lamb, 18 June 2000:
http://www.booknotes.org/transcripts/50570.htm
Called to mind this thread:
________________________________________________________
LAMB: Where did the rush for temperance come from?
Prof. APPLEBY: I think it came from--well, obviously, the religious
revivals had a lot to do with it, because you're not in control of
yourself if you're--if you drink too much. And--and the Revolutionary
generation drank a lot, way more than we drink today. And so I think
there was this desire for more control; the control had religious
impetus, but I also think that it had to do with ambition. If you
have a plan, a life plan, and you want to succeed in that life
plan--this is not an easy society to get ahead in; it takes a lot of
hard work--it's incompatible with drinking in the morning or drinking
in the afternoon, whereas in the old society, in an artisan's shop, as
a printing shop, the youngest apprentice went out at--at 10:30 and
came back with a bottle of--of liquor, and then at 2:00 they went out.
I mean, there--no one ever built a ship or raised a house without
providing liquor for the--for the workers.
__________________________
Of course, we all know that Winston Churchill was drunk all the time,
and the look at the prodigious volume of writing produced. Maybe it
was the tobacco...
- Alkibiades
Alkibiades
Correction based on consideration of Jo Lonergan's post above in this
thread:
>I have read somewhere or other that, since small (i.e. weak) beer was
>the standard beverage in the 16th century (no reliably clean water,
>coffee or tea available) Shakespeare, like the rest of the population,
>was probably never entirely sober.
"Was probably never entirely sober" is probably more accurate for
Churchill than "drunk all the time." But then again, he did have that
whole team of scholars working with him round the clock...
- Alkibiades
Alkibiades
<alkibia...@my-deja.com> wrote:
It seems I can't control myself. Here's another one:
_____
LAMB: They didn't--they didn't stop?
Prof. APPLEBY: No, no, no. No. No. The only thing I know that was
sort of violent was--that was--may have been ...(unintelligible)
with--they--once the temperance for--once they formed associations,
then they wanted to get rid of all liquor, and they cut down hundreds
of apple trees to get rid of apple cider which was fermented, and hard
apple cider was one of--one of the liquors. No, it was all voluntary,
but I--you know, this--we conform to the social mores if we see that
something is going to get--earn us frowns and--and--and ugly looks,
we'll move away, just like smoking today. The poor people who smoke
and have to huddle up against business buildings outside, you know,
that--that's a miracle of the anti-smoking campaign in the last 30
years.
______
Cutting down TREES (!!!) to stop people from making hard cider!
Imagine that!
Some of the best conversations I have had have been while huddled
outside corporate towers in our city squares with furtive smokers.
Goodness forbid they start cutting down the TOWERS in order to stop us
from lighting up!
- Alkibiades
Melanie Sands
symptoms being typical of that disease, and that two or three other
inhabitants of Stratford died of the same disease shortly before WS.
However, being a lusty Taurus (presumably) he probably liked
"wine,woman and song".
Melanie Sands
http://melaniesands.itgo.com
Alkibiades
>I read somewhere Shakespeare presumably died of typhoid fever - the
>symptoms being typical of that disease, and that two or three other
>inhabitants of Stratford died of the same disease shortly before WS.
>
>However, being a lusty Taurus (presumably) he probably liked
>"wine,woman and song".
Proof positive that you can drink and smoke and cuss and generally
carry on without having it kill you.
- Alk.
Melanie Sands
No, it means you can eat and drink and sing and have lusty sex without
having it kill you. Cussing is for the frustrated.
baker
That huge house in the middle of Stratford.
I suspect it was a rooming house, like the Mountjoy's.
A place locals could room and a place travelers might spend the
night for a fee...of course.
And all that malt he was hoarding.
He was making hooch with it.
This would explain why there are known to have been people other than
the Shakespeare's living in the house. And of course the drinking.
baker
John Baker
Visit my Webpage:
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"Chance favors the prepared mind." Louis Pasteur
Stephanie Caruana
<baker> wrote in message news:3b94dcf...@News.localaccess.com...
> I keep thinking about Willy the business man.
>
> That huge house in the middle of Stratford.
>
> I suspect it was a rooming house, like the Mountjoy's.
>
> A place locals could room and a place travelers might spend the
> night for a fee...of course.
Hmm, well, maybe that's why he billed the town of Stratford for some wine
served to a visiting preacher.
Maybe the town asked him to put the preacher up for the night, and.....the
preacher asked for something extra.
Stephanie
baker
<spear-...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>
><baker> wrote in message news:3b94dcf...@News.localaccess.com...
>> I keep thinking about Willy the business man.
>>
>> That huge house in the middle of Stratford.
>>
>> I suspect it was a rooming house, like the Mountjoy's.
>>
>> A place locals could room and a place travelers might spend the
>> night for a fee...of course.
>
>Hmm, well, maybe that's why he billed the town of Stratford for some wine
>served to a visiting preacher.
>Maybe the town asked him to put the preacher up for the night, and.....the
>preacher asked for something extra.
That's right...it would explain a lot. New Place wasn't a country
mannor house, it was on the cross roads in the middle of town...right
where a hostel usually is...
Hmmm...
Here he is in the Mountjoy home paying rent...taking notes on how it
was done...
And that house he bought in London after he retired wasn't it a
rooming house...
Hmmm...
Alkibiades
>I keep thinking about Willy the business man.
>
>That huge house in the middle of Stratford.
>
>I suspect it was a rooming house, like the Mountjoy's.
>
>A place locals could room and a place travelers might spend the
>night for a fee...of course.
>
>And all that malt he was hoarding.
>
>He was making hooch with it.
>
>This would explain why there are known to have been people other than
>the Shakespeare's living in the house. And of course the drinking.
Churchill had a big house, too.
baker
Yes, but not in the middle of town!
And that brick wall...wasn't it grand....
john
Alkibiades
>On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 18:16:26 -0400, Alkibiades
><alkibia...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:57:19 GMT, baker wrote:
>>
>>>I keep thinking about Willy the business man.
>>>
>>>That huge house in the middle of Stratford.
>>>
>>>I suspect it was a rooming house, like the Mountjoy's.
>>>
>>>A place locals could room and a place travelers might spend the
>>>night for a fee...of course.
>>>
>>>And all that malt he was hoarding.
>>>
>>>He was making hooch with it.
>>>
>>>This would explain why there are known to have been people other than
>>>the Shakespeare's living in the house. And of course the drinking.
>>
>>
>>Churchill had a big house, too.
>
>Yes, but not in the middle of town!
Good point. Either a cause or effect of Shake-speare's greater
insight into the human: a broader spectrum of humanity.
>
>And that brick wall...wasn't it grand....
What was it Machiavelli say about walls?
Yes, a wonderful hobby in dark days -- like landscape painting. But
nobody thinks Shake-speare was writing family history.
Hey, I stopped by the Emporium this morning. Where's that Troilus &
Cressida essay? Starting to think you're teasing.
- Alk.
baker
<alkibia...@my-deja.com> wrote:
I have too kinds of essays...shorts one and too long ones.
It got soo looooong I didn't know what to do with it...I need to
revist it...lets plan on the first of October?
Alkibiades
Sned em a drift and I'll edit.
- Alkibiades, Barber
Richard Kennedy
Jonson and Michael Drayton, by way of a "surfeit of Rhenish wine
and pickled herring," is the best my memory does with the quote.
Most likely he drank, he was a gentleman with leisure, and its also
said that he was witty, very likely convivial. Drink is a good thing,
isn't it, and if he smoked weed who cares about that? And he
probably liked to sing as well. Wine, smoke, song, and we
don't know much about his love life, except that the well-known
poet, Wm Davenant, claimed to be his son.
It's likely that the fatal party never happened, and
it may be right that Shakespere died of typhoid. That would be
news, for then we must wonder why this villager was put
in the company of Jonson and Drayton that last day, even in an
anecdote, for he was never in his whole life placed in a literary
context, much less to have been in the company of other poets.
Why should the story exist?