Marlowe and "George Scanderbeg"
Elisabeth Riba
I've seen some Marlowe biographies describe it as an early lost play of his.
I've seen other biographies not even *mention* it.
And the articles that do include it are frequently more dubious authorship
sites that tie it into the Le Doux collection or something like that.
So what are the facts?
Is it real? Is this just wishful thinking or misreading?
I'd like to know.
thanks.
--
------> Elisabeth Riba * http://www.osmond-riba.org/lis/ <------
"[She] is one of the secret masters of the world: a librarian.
They control information. Don't ever piss one off."
- Spider Robinson, "Callahan Touch"
Art Neuendorffer
> What is known about the "True History of George Scanderbeg"?
>
> I've seen some Marlowe biographies describe it as an early lost play of
his.
> I've seen other biographies not even *mention* it.
>
> And the articles that do include it are frequently more dubious authorship
> sites that tie it into the Le Doux collection or something like that.
>
> So what are the facts?
>
> Is it real? Is this just wishful thinking or misreading?
----------------------------------------------------
Only "the Earl of Oxford's Men " knew for sure:
----------------------------------------------------
http://www.sheffieldtheatres.co.uk/education/productions/edwardii/edward_edpack.pdf
The True History of George Scanderbeg c. 1582 1601 (registered),
for the Earl of Oxford's Men lost, anonymous
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.marlowe-society.org/educat.htm
<<Marlowe's first full-length play (now lost) is believed to be _The True
History of George Scanderbeg based on the life of a heroic Christian Prince
of Albania, Prince Castrioto, who was abducted as a child by the conquering
Turks and renamed Scanderbeg. He developed outstanding prowess at arms and
became a favourite of the Turkish emperor who gave him charge of his armies.
Learning of his true origin he converted to Christianity and fled to his own
country, freeing it from Turkish rule and leading his people in victorious
opposition to the Turkish enemy. He was a man of pristine valour who taught
his soldiers to respect women, forbidding them to rape their victims in war.
------------------------------------------------------------
The nose knows
------------------------------------------------------------
The Physiognomist's Own Book: an introduction to physiognomy
drawn from the writings of Lavater, 1841. [pp.82, 83]
http://www.newcastle.edu.au/discipline/fine-art/pubs/lavater/pop-pl-33.htm
<<According to Aristotle's opinion on Physiognomy, he whose nose is curved
from the root of the forehead, and strongly marked like the beak of an
eagle, must be a brave man. It was also observed by Polemon and Adamantius,
that such a nose denotes courage; and Albert, upon the authority of Loxus,
conveys the same idea. Noses thus formed are commonly distinguished by the
term aquiline, or Roman, and seem to bear the character of something royal
or majestic; for the eagle, whose bill is so formed, is the[p84] king of
birds: from this it may be inferred that an aquiline nose denotes a
dignified mind, capable of magnificent conceptions. Cyrus, according to
Xenophon and Plutarch, possessed such a nose, and the Persians held them in
such high estimation, that they granted royal honours to none but those
possessed of aquiline noses, and to that custom they still adhere. They
loved Cyrus above all other princes, and admired his magnanimity and
courage. Demetrius, son of a Syrian king, was surnamed Grypus, by the
Greeks, on account of his nose, as is mentioned by Justin. Dares, the
Phrygian, says, that Neoptolemus, son of Achilles, had a nose of the same
shape.
According to Suetonius, that of Sergius Galba (who is represented as a very
liberal and magnificent prince) was curved in the same manner.
George Scanderbeg, whose physiognomy indicated a matchless hero, and who
[p.85] stood unrivalled in courage and liberality, had a gentle and
agreeable eminence on his aquiline nose. Junius says, that the great
Sforza's was elevated on its centre, and he was invincible in courage. It is
certain that Ishmael Sophy, king of Persia, had a nose of the above
description, with eyes remarkably quick and brilliant, and his manners
exhibited the greatest liberality, courage, and ambition. His greatest
delight was to be amid the dangers and chances of war, where his invincible
courage and noble heroism were always conspicuous and successful. Selim, the
son of Bajazet, who for liberality could vie with Alexander the Great, had
an arched nose. Lastly, the face of Soliman, the son of Selim, who was a
great warrior, and beloved by all his subjects for his munificence, had a
Roman nose.>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Art Neuendorffer
Brewer Dictionary of Phrase and Fable. 1898.
Scanderbeg.: A name given by the Turks to George Castriota, the patriot
chief of Epi'rus. The word is a corruption of Iskander-beg, Prince Alexander
(1414-1467).
----------------------------------------------
Columbia Encyc.
<<Scanderbeg: or Skanderbeg, c.1404-1468, Albanian national hero. His
original name was George Castriota or Kastriotes, but the Ottomans called
him Iskender Bey, and this was corrupted into Scanderbeg. The son of a
prince of N Albania, he was educated in the Muslim faith as a hostage at the
court of Sultan Murad II. The sultan showered favors on him and gave him the
title bey and an army command. In 1443, when the Ottomans indicated they
would attack Albania, Scanderbeg escaped to his homeland, abjured Islam, and
formed a league of princes among the Albanian chieftains. He proclaimed
himself prince of Albania. To resist the Ottomans under Sultan Muhammad II,
Scanderbeg received aid at various times from Venice, Naples, Hungary, and
the pope. He had success in these wars partly because of the rugged Albanian
terrain and partly because he employed a mobile defense force using
guerrilla methods. He withstood repeated attacks and forced the sultan to
conclude a 10-year truce in 1461. Scanderbeg broke the truce in 1463 when
Pope Pius II called for a new crusade. The pope's death (1464) forced
abandonment of the crusade; Scanderbeg, left without allies, had to retreat
to his fortress of Kroia. After his death the league dissolved, resistance
collapsed, and Albania fell to the Ottomans. Scanderbeg's life is the source
of many Albanian tales.
Muhammad II, Ottoman sultan: or Mehmet II (Muhammad the Conqueror), 1429-81,
Ottoman sultan (1451-81), son and successor of Murad II. He is considered
the true founder of the Ottoman Empire (Turkey). He completed the conquest
of the Byzantine Empire by successfully storming (1453) Constantinople after
a 50-day siege, for which he constructed the largest cannons the world had
yet known. Byzantine Emperor Constantine XI fell in its defense. Muhammad
moved his capital from Adrianople to Constantinople and restored the
greatness of that city by settling there the populations of other conquered
towns. To Greek and Armenian citizens of Constantinople he granted the
privileges that they were to enjoy throughout Ottoman rule, including the
freedom to practice Orthodox Eastern Christianity. The Church of Hagia
Sophia became a mosque. Muhammad then conquered the Balkan Peninsula, taking
Greece, Bosnia, and several Venetian possessions in the Aegean islands. The
khan of Crimea became his ally and vassal. However, his further advance was
checked at Belgrade by John Hunyadi, in Albania by Scanderbeg until 1478,
and in Rhodes by the Knights Hospitalers under Aubusson. In Asia, Muhammad
annexed the empire of Trebizond, ended most independent Turkish dynasties,
and subdued the emirate of Karamania, putting to death its ruling family,
who were Seljuk Turks. In 1480 he captured Otranto, in Italy, but the
expedition had no results. Muhammad was a patron of learning and an
accomplished linguist as well as a great commander. His son, Beyazid II,
succeeded him. For a contemporary account of Muhammad II, see Kritoboulos, A
History of Mehmed the Conqueror (tr. 1954).
Ralph Waldo Emerson. (1803-1882). Essays and English Traits.
----------------------------------------------
Emerson: IV. Self-Reliance 1841
<<Our reading is mendicant and sycophantic. In history our imagination makes
fools of us, plays us false. Kingdom and lordship, power and estate, are a
gaudier vocabulary than private John and Edward in a small house and common
day's work: but the things of life are the same to both: the sum total of
both is the same. Why all this deference to Alfred and Scanderbeg and
Gustavus? Suppose they were virtuous; did they wear out virtue? As great a
stake depends on your private act to-day as followed their public and
renowned steps. When private men shall act with original views, the lustre
will be transferred from the actions of kings to those of gentlemen.>>
----------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
lar...@yahoo.com
Well, you might have seen this already, but Scanderbeg and
"Scanderbegging" is mentioned in the Gabriel Harvey Gorgon poem, which
might refer to Marlowe.
Peter Farey's link:
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/rey/gorgon.htm
C.
Peter Farey
Elisabeth Riba wrote:
>
> What is known about the "True History of George Scanderbeg"?
>
> I've seen some Marlowe biographies describe it as an early
> lost play of his. I've seen other biographies not even
> *mention* it.
>
> And the articles that do include it are frequently more
> dubious authorship sites that tie it into the Le Doux
> collection or something like that.
Thanks a heap! Yes the collection of Le Doux's books did
include biographies of Scanderbeg both in Latin and Spanish.
> So what are the facts?
>
> Is it real? Is this just wishful thinking or misreading?
>
> I'd like to know.
>
> thanks.
The play was, as Art said, registered in 1601 for The Earl
of Oxford's Men. This is perhaps a point against Marlowe's
having written it, as no other play of his was, as far as I
know, played by them. However, I know that Bakeless thought
it a possibility, although I don't know whether he was the
first to do so.
I believe that the main reason for attributing the play to
Marlowe, other than it being about the sort of larger than
life character he might be assumed to have admired, comes
from the poem *Gorgon, or the wonderfull yeare*, written by
Gabriel Harvey in September 1593, which contains this verse:
I mus'd awhile: and having mus'd awhile,
Jesu, (quoth I) is that Gargantua minde
Conquer'd, and left no Scanderbeg behinde?
Vow'd he not to Powles A Second bile?
What bile, or kibe? (quoth that same early Spright?)
Have you forgot the Scanderbegging wight?
The poem itself, which is very cryptic, had been thought by
many to be about Marlowe's death, and this seemed to refer
to his having promised a second play about Scanderbeg (just
as he had written a second part to his *Tamburlaine*). Not
everyone agrees that it *was* about Marlowe, however - for
example Charles Nicholl (supported by Kuriyama) claims that
it was about the death of a braggart called Peter Shakerley,
who is actually given a couple of mentions in the poem
itself.
Frankly, I find it difficult to understand what those lines
even *might* mean, if it was Shakerley being referred to,
or Nashe (his death being dreamt of in this bit) as some
maintain - including Terry Ross, I seem to recall. But, as
you can see, there is room for doubt either way.
Peter F.
pet...@rey.prestel.co.uk
http://www2.prestel.co.uk/rey/index.htm
Art Neuendorffer
> >
> > What is known about the "True History of George Scanderbeg"?
> >
> > I've seen some Marlowe biographies describe it as an early
> > lost play of his. I've seen other biographies not even
> > *mention* it.
> >
> > And the articles that do include it are frequently more
> > dubious authorship sites that tie it into the Le Doux
> > collection or something like that.
>
> Thanks a heap! Yes the collection of Le Doux's books did
> include biographies of Scanderbeg both in Latin and Spanish.
> > So what are the facts?
"Peter Farey" <Peter...@prst17z1.demon.co.uk> wrote
--------------------------------------------------------------
ScanderBEGGING WIGHT
-----------------------------------------------------------
<<I remember thinking once myself, in the days of my childhood, that
pickled onions grew on trees, and that EVERy elephant was born with
an impregnable castle on his back. I have not found the fact to be so;
far from it; and yet those visions have comforted me under
circumstances of trial.>> -- MARTIN ChuzzleWIT
--------------------------------------------------------------
<<Saint Martin's emblems are a globe of fire over his head as he says
Mass, or a goose, whose migration often coincides with his feast.
Martin was the son of a pagan army officer. While stationed
at Amiens in France in 337, a semi-naked BEGGAR
approached him in bitterly cold weather. Martin's name
became immortal at that moment, for he sliced his military
cloak in two and gave half of it to the starving man.
http://metalab.unc.edu/wm/paint/auth/martini/st-martin.jpg
Saint MAR-TIN serves as patron of BEGGARS, GLOVERS,
innkeepers, tailors, wine growers & wine merchants
(because his feast falls just after the vendange),
and WOOL-WEAVERS (because he divided his cloak).>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
Ulysses - James Joyce
<<The face of MARTIN Cunningham, bearded,
refeatures Shakespeares beardless face.>>
---------------------------------------------------------------
2 Henry IV Act 2 scene 2
BARDOLPH An you do not make him hanged among you,
the GALLOWS shall have wrong.
PRINCE HENRY And how doth thy master, Bardolph?
BARDOLPH Well, my lord. He heard of your grace's
coming to town: there's a letter for you.
POINS Delivered with good respect. And how doth the
MARTLEMAS, your master?
----------------------------------------------------------------
_The Talisman_ - Sir Walter Scott
``How now, sirrahs,'' continued the King, ``are you dainty-lipped,
or do you fear death, that you dally thus?''
``Not the death of a man,'' said Long Allen, to whom the
King looked as he spoke, ``but methinks I would not die like a
poisoned rat for the sake of a black chattel there, that is bought
and sold in a market like a MARTLEMAS OX.''
``His Grace speaks to men of sucking poison,'' muttered
another yeoman, ``as if he said, Go to, swallow a gooseberry!''
``Nay,'' said Richard, ``I never bade man do that
which I would not do myself.''
---------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: Neuendorffer <p...@erols.com>
Subject: Re: Martinists - a question
NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Nov 2000 18:21:28 GMT
Newsgroups: humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
-----------------------------------------------
> <aghard...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Art might know the answer to this one..
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> As long as one has no concern whatever for the correctness or
> reliability of the information, Art might know.
Might not!
> <aghard...@aol.com> wrote:
> > as I understand it, Martinists are part of the Rosicrucian movement
> > and came into being in the 18th century. So any ideas people
> > as to who the Martinists are that I've come across a couple
> > of references to in the 1590's? This, from John Florio's dictionary:
> > "Martinisti - - Martinists, followers of Martin's profession."
> > Anybody know what he means???
> >
> > Giulia.
>
> Without more information about the references to which you're
> referring, I don't know, but "Martinist" was used around that time in
> the sense of an enthusiast or adherent of the Martin Marprelate tracts.
>
> The term was later, of course, used in the sense of an adherent of
> Martin Luther. Still later, it was (and is) used to mean an adherent
> of any of various modern Hermetic mystical orders, some connected with
> the Rose-Croix. It has been claimed that the British Martinist Order
> owes its origin to the legend of a twelfth-century gnostic St. Martin
> dividing his cloak with a beggar on a cold day, but that supposed link
> with the gnostic tradition is almost certainly spurious, and indeed the
> *same* story of St. Martin and the beggar is told by other Martinists
> of a much earlier (in fact, fourth-century) St. Martin.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ides of March 1604: As one of the King's Men, "William Shakespeare"
heads the list of those to receive (4 feet 6 inches of) SCARLET cloth in
preparation of their participation (as grooms of the King's Chamber) for
King James's Royal Progress through London.
25: And this is the writing that was written,
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
26: This is the interpretation of the thing:
MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
27: TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
28: PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
29: Then commanded Belshazzar,
and they clothed Daniel with SCARLET..
-----------------------------------------------------------
> Indeed, there
> are dozens of so-called Martinst orders, many of them claiming lineage
> from ancient Hermetic traditions -- Mithraic, Gnostic, Johannite,
> Druidic, cabbalistic, etc. -- and/or association with the usual
> Hermetic suspects -- St. Germain, Cagliostro, Swedenborg, Boehme,
> Blavatsky, Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin, and others. Many Martinist
> organizations use some version of the Mogen David in their insignias.
> Some organizations have an outer exoteric circle one joins by a secret
> initiation and also an inner esoteric circle of the Hermetic elect, the
> Elus Cohens (there is also a separate Hermetic order of Elus Cohens,
> adding to the confusion). Amusingly, some claim that Martinez
> Pasqualez, upon whose teachings Louis-Claude de Saint-Martin is said to
> have founded the modern Martinist order, was himself initiated by his
> father, who in turn was initiated by Bonnie Prince Charlie. You'll
> find a few of these amusing claims advanced at some of the URLs listed
> below. None of this, of course, has any bearing upon your question,
> but it will be interesting to see whether as a consequence Art begins
> attributing Shakespeare's works to a conspiracy of Martinists, Druids,
> or space aliens.
>
> <http://members.nbci.com/silvani/martin02.html>
> <http://www.chez.com/crp/marti/>
> <http://www.icbl.hw.ac.uk/~bill/martinist.html>
> <http://www.bmosite.org/history.htm>
> <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1896/mart.html>
> <http://freespace.virgin.net/clive.culbertson/martinism1.htm>
> <http://www.martinisme.com/index2.htm>
-----------------------------------------------------------
No space aliens involved, certainly!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Martin, n. (Stone Working) [Etymol. uncertain.]
A perforated stone-faced runner for grinding.
Martin, n. [F. martin, from the proper name Martin. Cf. {Martlet}.]
(Zo["o]l.) One of several species of swallows, usually having the tail
less deeply forked than the tail of the common swallows;
migrate around Martinmas. [Written also {marten}.]
-----------------------------------------------------------
" Isn't this supposed to be Martini's place?"
-----------------------------------------------------------
<<In 1621, Professor Martini lecturing students at the Univ. of
HELMstedt, explained to his student why transmutation was impossible.
One student demanded a crucible, a stove and lead and under the
scrutiny of Martini performed the transmutation of lead into gold.
'Domine, solve mi hunc syllogismum.'
('Sir, confound this syllogism.')
But Martini had nothing to say.>>
- Seligmann _History of Magic & the Occult_
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://hiwaay.net/~paul/bacon/devices/gestaintro.html
_Knights of the Helmet_ by Martin Pares
<<Their device was to turn Gray's Inn, "with the consent and advice of
the Readers and Ancients," into the semblance of a court and kingdom,
and to entertain each other during the twelve days of Christmas licence
with playing at kings and counsellors. They proceeded accordingly to
elect a prince -- the Prince of Purpoole. . .>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.bibliomania.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/1019.html
Purple (blue and red) indicates the love of truth even unto martyrdom.
-----------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------
From: David Kathman <d...@popd.ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Martinists - a question
X-Server-Date: 11 Nov 2000 17:49:49 GMT
Newsgroups: humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
AGHARDING wrote:
>
> Art might know the answer to this one.. as I understand it, Martinists
are
> part of the Rosicrucian movement and came into being in the 18th century.
So
> any ideas people as to who the Martinists are that I've come across a
couple of
> references to in the 1590's? This, from John Florio's dictionary for
> instance:
> "Martinisti - - Martinists, followers of Martin's profession."
> Anybody know what he means???
I'm pretty sure he's talking about the followers of Martin Marprelate,
which was the pseudonym of a Puritan polemicist who wrote several
widely-circulated pamphlets in the late 1590s. "Martin" attacked the
bishops of the Church of England, who he thought were not anti-Catholic
enough; he called them "petty popes" and lots of other things in a
very witty and rambunctious style that's still amusing to read today.
Martin's identity was a matter of dispute at the time, and has
continued to be so, but Leland Carlson showed nearly 30 years ago
that the primary author of the Marprelate tracts was Job Throckmorton,
a Puritan former Member of Parliament from Warwickshire who was
considered one of the primary suspects at the time but never formally
charged.
Dave Kathman
d...@ix.netcom.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------
AGHARDING Nov 11 2000, 5:59 pm show options
Newsgroups: humanities.lit.authors.shakespeare
From: aghard...@aol.com (AGHARDING) - Find messages by this author
Local: Sat,Nov 11 2000 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: Martinists - a question
Thanks for replies folks.. the original reference Florio makes in "2nd
Fruits"
may well refer to Marprelate (it's part of a general criticism of his
contemporaries with a particular focus on Thomas Nashe) and runs thus:
"some
with Amadysing and Martinising a multitude of our libertine yonkers with
trivial, frivolous and vain, vain drolleries, set many minds a gadding:
could a
fool with a feather make men better sport?" That does look like a
Marprelate
reference.. but I hesitated when I saw the dictionary entry "Martinisti" -
surely the Marprelate affair was too transitory and far away for Italians to
have a word for it? and they're defined as "followers of Martin's
profession" -
what profession? Does this represent some other kind of
Martinising/Martinist? it's probably not important but I hate loose ends!
Any other notions gratefully received :-)
cheers - Giulia.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
lyra
Peter Farey wrote:
> Elisabeth Riba wrote:
> >
> > What is known about the "True History of George Scanderbeg"?
> >
> > I've seen some Marlowe biographies describe it as an early
> > lost play of his. I've seen other biographies not even
> > *mention* it.
> The play was, as Art said, registered in 1601 for The Earl
> of Oxford's Men. This is perhaps a point against Marlowe's
> having written it, as no other play of his was, as far as I
> know, played by them. However, I know that Bakeless thought
> it a possibility, although I don't know whether he was the
> first to do so.
troupes of the Earl of Oxford...
(quote)
1. Earl of Oxford's Bearward <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=1009>
Vere, Edward de
(1550-1604) Performing Animals
1 event
2. Earl of Oxford's Bearward <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=758>
Vere, John de
(1499-1526) Performing Animals
1 event
3. Earl of Oxford's Bearward/s <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=759>
Vere, John de
(1499-1526) Performing Animals
1 event
4. Earl of Oxford's Entertainer <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=967>
Vere, John de
(1442-1512/13) Entertainers/Minstrels
2 events
5. Earl of Oxford's Players <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=78>
Vere, Edward de
(1550-1604) Players
10 events
6. Earl of Oxford's Players <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=1139>
Vere, John de
(1516-1562) Players
3 events
7. Earl of Oxford's Trumpeter/s <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=760>
Vere, Henry de
(1592/3-1625) Musicians
1 event
8. Earl of Oxford's Trumpeters <troupe.cfm?TroupeListID=821>
Vere, Henry de
(1592/3-1625) Musicians
1 event
lyra
> 25: And this is the writing that was written,
> MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
I always liked "meany, meany, to kill a parson"...
or maybe "mar prelate"...
> 26: This is the interpretation of the thing:
> MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it.
> 27: TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
> 28: PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.
> I'm pretty sure he's talking about the followers of Martin Marprelate,
> which was the pseudonym of a Puritan polemicist who wrote several
> widely-circulated pamphlets in the late 1590s. "Martin" attacked the
> bishops of the Church of England, who he thought were not anti-Catholic
> enough; he called them "petty popes" and lots of other things in a
> very witty and rambunctious style that's still amusing to read today.
> Martin's identity was a matter of dispute at the time, and has
> continued to be so, but Leland Carlson showed nearly 30 years ago
> that the primary author of the Marprelate tracts was Job Throckmorton,
> a Puritan former Member of Parliament from Warwickshire who was
> considered one of the primary suspects at the time but never formally
> charged.
>
> Dave Kathman
> d...@ix.netcom.com
I still think it's Kit Marlowe.
In fact, if he is the son of William Parr,
he would be closely related to the Throckmortons.
(and Ardens)
(and he and Throckmorton would be cousins to the Queen)
...........................................................................
Art Neuendorffer
> > MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
"lyra" <mountai...@RockAthens.com> wrote
> I always liked "meany, meany, to kill a parson"...
> or maybe "mar prelate"...
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > I'm pretty sure he's talking about the followers of Martin Marprelate,
> > which was the pseudonym of a Puritan polemicist who wrote several
> > widely-circulated pamphlets in the late 1590s. "Martin" attacked the
> > bishops of the Church of England, who he thought were not anti-Catholic
> > enough; he called them "petty popes" and lots of other things in a
> > very witty and rambunctious style that's still amusing to read today.
> > Martin's identity was a matter of dispute at the time, and has
> > continued to be so, but Leland Carlson showed nearly 30 years ago
> > that the primary author of the Marprelate tracts was Job Throckmorton,
> > a Puritan former Member of Parliament from Warwickshire who was
> > considered one of the primary suspects at the time but never formally
> > charged.
> >
> > Dave Kathman d...@ix.netcom.com
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
"lyra" <mountai...@RockAthens.com> wrote
> I still think it's Kit Marlowe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
1526 Tyndale
Luke Chapter 1, Verse 52
"He putteth doune the myghty from their seates
and exalteth them of LOWE degre."
1 Corinthians Chapter 5, Verse 13
"Put awaye from amonge you that evyll PARSON."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"lyra" <mountai...@RockAthens.com> wrote
> In fact, if he is the son of William Parr,
> he would be closely related to the Throckmortons.
> (and Ardens)
> (and he and Throckmorton would be cousins to the Queen)
---------------------------------------------------------------
_PARSON Weems' Fable_ by Grant Wood:
http://www.csusm.edu/profe/overlooking.htm
<<Mason Locke Weems, 1759-1825, American author and preacher, b. Anne
Arundel co., Md., studied theology in London. He was ordained in 1784 and
served various Episcopal parishes. For 30 years after 1794 he was a
traveling agent for Mathew Carey, bookseller and publisher. Parson Weems is
chiefly known for The Life and Memorable Actions of George Washington
(c.1800), in the fifth edition of which appears the famous cherry-tree
story. He fictionalized this and other biographies he wrote to increase
their interest. Weems also wrote moralistic tracts, such as The Drunkard's
Looking Glass (1812).>>
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http://www.common-place.org/vol-01/no-01/dutch/dutch4.shtml
<<Today, the phrase "Parson Weems" evokes multiple responses. The most
common, of course, is Parson Weems the unreliable storyteller, whose myths
aimed to inculcate values but whose history was half-baked at best. Several
commentators have noted how the false history undercut the moral message.
Commenting on the biblical doctrine of bearing false witness on the eve of
the Clinton impeachment hearings, a North Carolina minister noted that
Weems's story hadn't done its job: it "has succeeded in making George
Washington the sworn enemy of all young children," but it "certainly has not
made them more truthful. The funny part of it is that this story about the
virtue of telling the truth is itself not true--Parson Weems or somebody
made it up." Maybe the message is utterly different, at least for a
generation of capitalists. In the New York Times, Michael Lewis, author of
the best-selling Liar's Poker: Rising through the Wreckage on Wall Street,
suggested that the "true significance" of the cherry-tree story is that "it
pays to lie, if you have the knack for it. And if you lie as well as Weems
you can make a lot of people happy, simply by telling them what they think
they want to hear.">>
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Art Neuendorffer