Perchance to dream
lyra
http://chemicool.com/Shakespeare/hamlet/full.html
is the whole play on one page, and most useful for
searching, as one can (on Internet Explorer)
click "Edit", then on "Find (on This Page)"
to find any word or speech...)
perchance to dream
anagrams
not "peach", reader?? ...C.M.
oh reader! C.M. pen Act
C.M. ... not cheap, reader??
(cheap at the price!)
actor read......pen? C.M., he
act, or read..."C.M."...pen, he
crepe on hat? read C.M.
RC made crepe on hat?
O a pretence! hard, CM?
* * * * * *
to sleep: perchance to dream
anagrams
note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
lyra
David L. Webb
<beautif...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> (from Hamlet...
>
> http://chemicool.com/Shakespeare/hamlet/full.html
>
> is the whole play on one page, and most useful for
> searching, as one can (on Internet Explorer)
> click "Edit", then on "Find (on This Page)"
> to find any word or speech...)
>
> perchance to dream
>
> anagrams
>
> not "peach", reader?? ...C.M.
> oh reader! C.M. pen Act
> C.M. ... not cheap, reader??
> (cheap at the price!)
> actor read......pen? C.M., he
> act, or read..."C.M."...pen, he
> crepe on hat? read C.M.
> RC made crepe on hat?
> O a pretence! hard, CM?
>
> * * * * * *
The appearance of the initials "C.M." is, to put it quite mildly,
unpersuasive -- one can take virtually *any* text of reasonable length
containing the letters "C" and "M" and produce multiple random and
utterly meaningless anagrams.
In any case, you missed a few anagrams. For example, there's
"Note: Heed C. Mar. crap."
> to sleep: perchance to dream
>
> anagrams
>
> note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
You're still missing a few. For example,
"Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
This one pointedly *denies* Marlowe's authorship, and suggests John
Dee's involvement. Surely an anagram naming "C. Marlo" is far more
persuasive than one that merely contains the initials "C.M." One could
list pages of suggestive anagrams, all far superior to the anemic "act,
or read...'C.M.'...pen, he," etc., but I trust that this single example
suffices to demonstrate how absurd this method of investigating
authorship is.
Finally, there are other serious problems with this approach. One
is that the text you anagrammed does not appear at all in the First
Quarto, and in the Second Quarto and First Folio it reads "To sleepe,
perchance to dreame...." Since every letter is crucial in an anagram,
it seems rather foolish to seek revelatory anagrams using a text whose
spelling is a modernization of the original.
David Webb
Neuendorffer
>
> > (from Hamlet...
> >
> > http://chemicool.com/Shakespeare/hamlet/full.html
> >
> > is the whole play on one page, and most useful for
> > searching, as one can (on Internet Explorer)
> > click "Edit", then on "Find (on This Page)"
> > to find any word or speech...)
> >
> > perchance to dream
> >
> > anagrams
> >
> > not "peach", reader?? ...C.M.
> > oh reader! C.M. pen Act
> > C.M. ... not cheap, reader??
> > (cheap at the price!)
> > actor read......pen? C.M., he
> > act, or read..."C.M."...pen, he
> > crepe on hat? read C.M.
> > RC made crepe on hat?
> > O a pretence! hard, CM?
> >
> > * * * * * *
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> The appearance of the initials "C.M." is, to put it quite mildly,
> unpersuasive -- one can take virtually *any* text of reasonable length
> containing the letters "C" and "M" and produce multiple random and
> utterly meaningless anagrams.
In other words: it is important to have a high ratio of Proper Names
(i.e., a high INPNC) in one's anagram.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> In any case, you missed a few anagrams. For example, there's
>
> "Note: Heed C. Mar. crap."
Note: INPNC = 4/16
Only 4 of the 16 letters refers to a proper name.
> Lyra wrote:
> > to sleep: perchance to dream
> >
> > anagrams
> >
> > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> You're still missing a few. For example,
>
> "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
Note: INPNC = 9/22
Only 9 of the 22 letters refers to proper names.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> This one pointedly *denies* Marlowe's authorship, and suggests John
> Dee's involvement. Surely an anagram naming "C. Marlo" is far more
> persuasive than one that merely contains the initials "C.M." One could
> list pages of suggestive anagrams, all far superior to the anemic "act,
> or read...'C.M.'...pen, he," etc., but I trust that this single example
> suffices to demonstrate how absurd this method of investigating
> authorship is.
I trust that these examples suffice to demonstrate how absurd the use
of low INPNC anagrams is.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> Finally, there are other serious problems with this approach. One
> is that the text you anagrammed does not appear at all in the First
> Quarto, and in the Second Quarto and First Folio it reads "To sleepe,
> perchance to dreame...." Since every letter is crucial in an anagram,
> it seems rather foolish to seek revelatory anagrams using a text whose
> spelling is a modernization of the original.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"Since every letter is crucial in an anagram"
"KIT MARLOWE"
"OMIT WALKER"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
OMIT MARLOWE => KIT WALKER
secret identity of the comic strip PHANTOM
CAMILLO Who have we here?
We'll make an instrument of this,
OMIT nothing may give us aid.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TOUS-PHANTOM
SOUT-HAMPTON
"UNG par TOUS, TOUS par UNG" => Southampton Motto
ONE for ALL , ALL for ONE.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
hide S
O
U
H A M P T O N
"hideOUS PHANTOM"
<<Fagin sat watching in his old lair, with face so distorted and pale,
and eyes so red and blood-shot, that he looked less like a man, than
like some hideOUS PHANTOM, moist from the grave, and worried by an
evil spirit. He sat crouching over a cold hearth, wrapped in an old
torn coverlet,>> - oliver twist
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"KIT MARLOWE"
"OMIT WALKER"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sirbacon.org/links/parentage.htm
A previous owner of Shakespeare's house in Blackfriar's was Anne Bacon.
(Francis' stepmother) In 1604 her son, Matthew Bacon sold it to
Henry WALKER, who sold it in 1613 to William Shakespeare.
Matthew was admitted to Gray's Inn in 1597.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.xrefer.com/entry/554920
At his death, the house passed to his daughter,
Susanna, and her husband, Dr John Hall, and then to their
daughter and son-in-law, Elizabeth and Thomas Nash.
New Place was sold in 1675 to Sir Edward WALKER, and
passed from him to his daughter and, in 1699, into the
Clopton family. It was extensively rebuilt by Sir John
Clopton, who settled it on his son, Hugh, in 1702 before
it was ready for reoccupation. When Sir Hugh died,
it passed to his daughters, who sold it to the
Reverend Francis Gastrell in 1756. He demolished it in 1759.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Reedy wrote:
> One of my ancestors married Shakespeare's niece.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Arden of Wilmcote --- Agnes WEBBE Sir Thomas
| (sister) Wilson (d.1581)
| (of) | secretary
Margaret Arden (b.1538) --- Alexander WEBBE(1534-73) | of QE.I
| |
/---------/----------------\ |
| | Alexander |
Sara Robert WEBBE II ------------ Mary Wilson
Ann WEBBE (1559-1630) |
Mary |
Elizabeth |
| |
| David L. WEBB
Tom Reedy --- Brenda Reedy
|
Kit Jr.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The skills of Shakespeare's mother have been unkown, but it is not
unlikely that she could read and write, and we have a sign of her hand.
When selling her share in a landholding to her nephew Robert WEBBE, in
1579, she mad her 'marke' on a deed and on a bond. Instead of drawing
a stolid cross on the Webbe deed, Mary Shakespeare drew a small,
neat, rather complex design. . .>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Reedy wrote:
> Hi Bob. thanks for the compliment, but as you know, who we debate is out of
> our hands. I got an e-mail from the Trust & was assigned Foelster just as
> soon as his name appeared on the ng. Boy, I'm glad I was taken off Crowley:
> the man is too well-read & intelligent, it was all I could do to keep up with
> him. I'm damn glad they've never given me Art to debate; I feel sorry for
> poor David. Of course that new anagram program they have is sure coming in
> handy for him, but I *NEVER* want to go toe-to-toe with Art--he knows too
> much, although I doubt if he's even aware of all he knows.
>
> Hey, I finally got the check. Something about a computer virus in the
> mainframe at Stratford. I was glad to see it--the rent was overdue & I had
> to pay a late fee.
>
> Sorry about that last e-mail appearing on the ng. Apparently I hit "post"
> instead of "e-mail." It won't happen again.
>
> My 14-year-old is giving me trouble--the usual ersatz teenage angst. He
> doesn't want to accept his occupation being already chosen for him. I told
> him it was like the Phantom--the ghost who walks--& that it was an honor to
> be born into a family with a 400-year old mission, but he just sulks off &
> gets on the computer. I'm sure he'll come around--we all do, eventually.
> Meanwhile all he does is play on the computer (he's a real whiz at
> programming) & mutters about how he's going to "fix me" & about some
> grandoise plan he has to "expose the truth to the world." Yeah, right,
> that'll be the day, hey Bob?
>
> Who do you think is going to get the old monument in April? Schoenbaum had
> it for so long I think they almost completely forgot about it. I vote for
> Matus--he deserves it. I've heard some say that Dave or Terry should get it,
> but they're a little young yet, I think. I know damn well it'll be years
> before I'm eligible, not to mention that whoever gets it keeps it for life.
>
> Say, before they ship it to whomever they give it to we should all gather
> around it & have our picture taken & send it to Kennedy! I'd want to pose
> atop the woolsack. Wouldn't that be a hoot! I bet the old fart would think
> he was having the DTs! If a picture could be printed with some type of
> disappearing ink that couldn't be copied it would be worth it. Maybe he'd
> have a heart attack or something & we'd be rid of that thorn in the side &
> make our jobs a lot easier.
>
> Well, that's about it for now. Brenda says to tell the family "hi" & that
> we'll see you all in Stratford in April.
>
> Tom
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ghost Who Walks Will Never Die": The Phantom's First 400 Years.
http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/phantom/about.htm
<<Such is the riveting, myth-freighted legend of The Phantom -- "The
Ghost Who Walks," "The Man Who Cannot Die," "The Guardian of the Eastern
Dark." In the beginning he had been a half-drowned sailor, flung ashore
on the terrible, blood-drenched Bengalla coast after pirates burned his
ship and slaughtered his mates. The gentle Bandar pygmies, taking him to
be a sea god of ancient prophecy, nursed him back to fitness and became
his everlasting friends -- as the castaway faced his destiny, donned
costume and mask and was reborn as the first of the Phantoms, scourge of
predators everywhere.
"I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed,
cruelty and injustice!" he cried as he formally took "The Oath of the
Skull" by firelight. "And my sons and their sons shall follow me!"
And in time there was a son. In time that son begat another, and
thereafter that son begat again. After a while, there arose a dynasty of
Phantoms, one after another, born into the legend then reared and
rigorously drilled in the disciplines and the duties.
Through the generations these eerily identical jungle lords have
prowled an evil world in the cloaks of many identities, and none today
but the Bandar and a handful of other secret souls know that all are not
one and the same.
The modern Phantom is the 21st of the line. Since Feb. 17, 1936, he
has been the law in his dangerous part of the world, a one-man police
force, a silent avenger who appears and vanishes like lightning. His
home is the fearsome "Skull Cave," deep in the heart of his jungle. His
only intimates have been the faithful Bandar, his great white horse
Hero, his savage gray wolf Devil, and his lovely American sweetheart
Diana Palmer. Even the men of the Jungle Patrol, the paramilitary
peacekeeping [Goon] squad an ancestor had organized some years ago, have
never seen the face of their mysterious commander in chief.
From Anti-Stratfordians, thieves and smugglers to cut-throat harbor
rats to crazed dictators seeking to enslave free men, all have met the
Phantom over 60 thrilling years, and all have tasted his wrath. Always
changing with the whirlwind times around him, he has increasingly come
to function as something of a United Nations troubleshooter-at-large, a
shadowy trench-coated figure slipping in and out of modern Third World
political intrigue.
But never far from the Phantom's stage are the great emperors and
brigands of yore, in the shining tales of his 20 heroic forebears,
recounted in the epic Phantom Chronicles. In more than 60 years of daily
newspaper stories and 58 years of Sunday-only yarns, "Phantom" creator
Lee Falk has meticulously fleshed out the most minute details of a
fabulous dynastic pageant, illuminating the lives of the Phantoms of old
whose blood courses through the veins of the modern Ghost Who Walks.
Many of them have swashbuckled their way through the famous newspaper
comic strip in grand flashback sequences -- one early Phantom is known
to have married Christopher Columbus' granddaughter; another is known to
have married Shakespeare's niece; still another took a Mongol princess
as his bride.
The fifth Phantom crossed swords with the pirate Blackbeard in the
early 1600s. The 13th Phantom traveled to the young United States and
fought alongside Jean Lafitte in the War of 1812. The 16th appears to
have put in some time as a Wild West cowboy.
And succession is assured.
The current Phantom and Diana Palmer were wed in 1977, and today their
scrappy young son, Kit, is in training to someday take the sacred "Oath
of the Skull" and become the 22nd Phantom. (Phantom 2040, the futuristic
television series that in 1994 spun off from Lee Falk's classic
comic-strip legend, posits a 24th Phantom, apparently Kit's grandson.)>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CE7CC81...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.compost) wrote:
No, Art; a high Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Names Criterion score
means VERy little. In fact, your own habitual cavalier and almost
complete disregard for the INPNC in assessing your own anagrams
underscores the INPNC's worthlessness emphatically. For instance, the
moronic "I kill Edwasd de Vese" merits an INPNC score of 0/17, since
"Edwasd" is not a proper name in any natural language known to me.
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > In any case, you missed a few anagrams. For example, there's
> >
> > "Note: Heed C. Mar. crap."
> Note: INPNC = 4/16
>
> Only 4 of the 16 letters refers to a proper name.
Then why aren't you criticizing Lyra's anagrams' INPNC score, Art?
None of them scores better than 2/16, or only *half* the INPNC score of
"Note: Heed C. Mar. crap." By your own idiotic criterion, the latter
anagram is *twice* as persuasive as any of Lyra's!
> > Lyra wrote:
>
> > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > >
> > > anagrams
> > >
> > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > You're still missing a few. For example,
> >
> > "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
> Note: INPNC = 9/22
>
> Only 9 of the 22 letters refers to proper names.
Why aren't you criticizing Lyra's anagrams' INPNC score, Art? None
of them scores better than 2/22, less than a *quarter* of the INPNC
score of "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo." By your own idiotic
criterion, the latter anagram is oVER *four times* as persuasive as any
of Lyra's! You aren't any chance using a double standard, are you,
Art?
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > This one pointedly *denies* Marlowe's authorship, and suggests John
> > Dee's involvement. Surely an anagram naming "C. Marlo" is far more
> > persuasive than one that merely contains the initials "C.M." One could
> > list pages of suggestive anagrams, all far superior to the anemic "act,
> > or read...'C.M.'...pen, he," etc., but I trust that this single example
> > suffices to demonstrate how absurd this method of investigating
> > authorship is.
> I trust that these examples suffice to demonstrate how absurd the use
> of low INPNC anagrams is.
No, Art; these examples merely suffice to demonstrate how absurd the
use of the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion is.
That's *not* an anagram, Art -- the "T" is dragooned into doing
double duty, as there are two occurrences in "hide Southampton" but
only one in "hideous phantom." I realize that counting to two is not
your strong suit -- indeed, had you been able to count to two you might
not have committed your Peter Gay gaffe -- but take it from one who
*can* count to two that "hideous phantom" has fewer occurrences of "T"
than "hide Southampton."
In fact, I you're barking up the wrong tree, Art --
"Hide brash Southampton" is a perfect anagram of
"Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
Given that you evidently cannot even count to two, Art, the VERacity of
this decipherment can scarcely be gainsaid.
> <<Fagin sat watching in his old lair, with face so distorted and pale,
> and eyes so red and blood-shot, that he looked less like a man, than
> like some hideOUS PHANTOM, moist from the grave, and worried by an
> evil spirit. He sat crouching over a cold hearth, wrapped in an old
> torn coverlet,>> - oliver twist
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> "KIT MARLOWE"
> "OMIT WALKER"
But Art -- "Kit Marlowe" is a perfect anagram of "Klima wrote,"
showing the novelist Ivan Klima to be the true author of the works
attributed to Marlowe.
[...]
> Tom Reedy wrote:
>
> > One of my ancestors married Shakespeare's niece.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Robert Arden of Wilmcote --- Agnes WEBBE Sir Thomas
> | (sister) Wilson (d.1581)
> | (of) | secretary
> Margaret Arden (b.1538) --- Alexander WEBBE(1534-73) | of QE.I
> | |
> /---------/----------------\ |
> | | Alexander |
> Sara Robert WEBBE II ------------ Mary Wilson
> Ann WEBBE (1559-1630) |
> Mary |
> Elizabeth |
> | |
> | David L. WEBB
> Tom Reedy --- Brenda Reedy
> |
> Kit Jr.
Proof, Art? Alexander Webbe spelled his surname with an extra "e."
Since you (along with Mr. Streitz, Stephanie, and other notoriously
clueless individuals) apparently find the spellings "Shakespere" and
"Shakspere" so different that they could not possibly refer to the same
individual, it follows by your own orthographic analysis that Alexander
Webbe cannot have been my ancestor. (You would do better to consult
the Priory of Sion's more reliable genealogies of the Sacred Bloodline,
Art.)
[...]
You're priceless, Art! I laughed so hard I almost choked when you
pretended to take Tom Reedy's joke seriously the first time; it's
almost as funny in retrospect.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Ghost Who Walks Will Never Die": The Phantom's First 400 Years.
> http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/phantom/about.htm
>
> <<Such is the riveting, myth-freighted legend of The Phantom -- "The
> Ghost Who Walks," "The Man Who Cannot Die," "The Guardian of the Eastern
> Dark." In the beginning he had been a half-drowned sailor, flung ashore
> on the terrible, blood-drenched Bengalla coast after pirates burned his
> ship and slaughtered his mates. The gentle Bandar pygmies, taking him to
> be a sea god of ancient prophecy, nursed him back to fitness and became
> his everlasting friends -- as the castaway faced his destiny, donned
> costume and mask and was reborn as the first of the Phantoms, scourge of
> predators everywhere.
Drawing inferences about the authorship of Elizabethan dramas and
poetry from 20th-century comic books is certainly in the venerable
Oxfordian tradition -- the books of the Ogburns, Clark, Sobran, and
especially Mr. Streitz are practically comic books even *without* the
graphics. In particular, Mr. Streitz's book affords more laughs per
page than I comic book I ever saw, with the possible exception of
Quino's brilliant _Toda Mafalda_.
[...]
David Webb
Neuendorffer
> > > > perchance to dream
> > > >
> > > > anagrams
> > > >
> > > > not "peach", reader?? ...C.M.
> > > > oh reader! C.M. pen Act
> > > > C.M. ... not cheap, reader??
> > > > (cheap at the price!)
> > > > actor read......pen? C.M., he
> > > > act, or read..."C.M."...pen, he
> > > > crepe on hat? read C.M.
> > > > RC made crepe on hat?
> > > > O a pretence! hard, CM?
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > The appearance of the initials "C.M." is, to put it quite mildly,
> > > unpersuasive -- one can take virtually *any* text of reasonable length
> > > containing the letters "C" and "M" and produce multiple random and
> > > utterly meaningless anagrams.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
> > In other words: it is important to have a high ratio of Proper Names
> > (i.e., a high INPNC) in one's anagram.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> No, Art; a high Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Names Criterion score
> means VERy little. In fact, your own habitual cavalier and almost
> complete disregard for the INPNC in assessing your own anagrams
> underscores the INPNC's worthlessness emphatically.
I almost always insist on a high INPNC.
You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
> For instance, the
> moronic "I kill Edwasd de Vese" merits an INPNC score of 0/17, since
> "Edwasd" is not a proper name in any natural language known to me.
The name "EdwaRd de VeRe" is hidden
by "S(hake) S(peare)"
It sort of makes sense and INPNC = 10/17
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > In any case, you missed a few anagrams. For example, there's
> > >
> > > "Note: Heed C. Mar. crap."
> Neuendorffer wrote:
> > Note: INPNC = 4/16
> >
> > Only 4 of the 16 letters refers to a proper name.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> Then why aren't you criticizing Lyra's anagrams' INPNC score, Art?
I thought that I was; I'm just using you as an example.
> None of them scores better than 2/16, or only *half* the INPNC score of
> "Note: Heed C. Mar. crap." By your own idiotic criterion, the latter
> anagram is *twice* as persuasive as any of Lyra's!
Almost any anagram (or near anagram) with an INPNC <0.5 is not worth
taking seriously. But that does not mean that it isn't fun to generate
such low INPNC anagrams.
> > > Lyra wrote:
> >
> > > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > > >
> > > > anagrams
> > > >
> > > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > You're still missing a few. For example,
> > >
> > > "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
> Neuendorffer wrote:
> > Note: INPNC = 9/22
> >
> > Only 9 of the 22 letters refers to proper names.
>
> Why aren't you criticizing Lyra's anagrams' INPNC score, Art? None
> of them scores better than 2/22, less than a *quarter* of the INPNC
> score of "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo." By your own idiotic
> criterion, the latter anagram is oVER *four times* as persuasive as any
> of Lyra's! You aren't any chance using a double standard, are you,
> Art?
I thought that I was criticizing Lyra's anagrams by using your low
INPNC anagrams as an example. Once the INPNC drops below 0.5 there is
little real point in comparing relative INPNC scores.
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > This one pointedly *denies* Marlowe's authorship, and suggests John
> > > Dee's involvement. Surely an anagram naming "C. Marlo" is far more
> > > persuasive than one that merely contains the initials "C.M." One could
> > > list pages of suggestive anagrams, all far superior to the anemic "act,
> > > or read...'C.M.'...pen, he," etc., but I trust that this single example
> > > suffices to demonstrate how absurd this method of investigating
> > > authorship is.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>
> > I trust that these examples suffice to demonstrate how absurd the use
> > of low INPNC anagrams is.
>
> No, Art; these examples merely suffice to demonstrate how absurd the
> use of the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion is.
Then you should have no problem in generating meaningless *high*
INPNC anagrams.
Then I take it that you have no problem with:
----------------------------------------------------------------
TOUS-PHANTOM
SOUT-HAMPTON
"UNG par TOUS, TOUS par UNG" => Southampton Motto
ONE for ALL , ALL for ONE.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, I you're barking up the wrong tree, Art --
>
> "Hide brash Southampton" is a perfect anagram of
>
> "Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
There you go again, Dave: INPNC= 3/20.
> Given that you evidently cannot even count to two, Art, the VERacity of
> this decipherment can scarcely be gainsaid.
>
> > <<Fagin sat watching in his old lair, with face so distorted and pale,
> > and eyes so red and blood-shot, that he looked less like a man, than
> > like some hideOUS PHANTOM, moist from the grave, and worried by an
> > evil spirit. He sat crouching over a cold hearth, wrapped in an old
> > torn coverlet,>> - oliver twist
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > "KIT MARLOWE"
> > "OMIT WALKER"
>
> But Art -- "Kit Marlowe" is a perfect anagram of "Klima wrote,"
> showing the novelist Ivan Klima to be the true author of the works
> attributed to Marlowe.
INPNC= 5/10
That's a little better, Dave.
> > Tom Reedy wrote:
> >
> > > One of my ancestors married Shakespeare's niece.
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Robert Arden of Wilmcote --- Agnes WEBBE Sir Thomas
> > | (sister) Wilson (d.1581)
> > | (of) | secretary
> > Margaret Arden (b.1538) --- Alexander WEBBE(1534-73) | of QE.I
> > | |
> > /---------/----------------\ |
> > | | Alexander |
> > Sara Robert WEBBE II ------------ Mary Wilson
> > Ann WEBBE (1559-1630) |
> > Mary |
> > Elizabeth |
> > | |
> > | David L. WEBB
> > Tom Reedy --- Brenda Reedy
> > |
> > Kit Jr.
>
> Proof, Art? Alexander Webbe spelled his surname with an extra "e."
> Since you (along with Mr. Streitz, Stephanie, and other notoriously
> clueless individuals) apparently find the spellings "Shakespere" and
> "Shakspere" so different that they could not possibly refer to the same
> individual, it follows by your own orthographic analysis that Alexander
> Webbe cannot have been my ancestor.
The point is that Shakespeare is pronounced
differently from Shakspeare.
Is Webbe pronounced differently from Webb?
> (You would do better to consult the Priory of Sion's
> more reliable genealogies of the Sacred Bloodline, Art.)
Are your relatives in their genealogies?
I'm really not all that interested that Tom Reedy posted this.
What interests me is that Tom Reedy deleted this post almost
immediately.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Ghost Who Walks Will Never Die": The Phantom's First 400 Years.
> > http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/phantom/about.htm
> >
> > <<Such is the riveting, myth-freighted legend of The Phantom -- "The
> > Ghost Who Walks," "The Man Who Cannot Die," "The Guardian of the Eastern
> > Dark." In the beginning he had been a half-drowned sailor, flung ashore
> > on the terrible, blood-drenched Bengalla coast after pirates burned his
> > ship and slaughtered his mates. The gentle Bandar pygmies, taking him to
> > be a sea god of ancient prophecy, nursed him back to fitness and became
> > his everlasting friends -- as the castaway faced his destiny, donned
> > costume and mask and was reborn as the first of the Phantoms, scourge of
> > predators everywhere.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> Drawing inferences about the authorship of Elizabethan dramas and
> poetry from 20th-century comic books is certainly in the venerable
> Oxfordian tradition -- the books of the Ogburns, Clark, Sobran, and
> especially Mr. Streitz are practically comic books even *without* the
> graphics. In particular, Mr. Streitz's book affords more laughs per
> page than I comic book I ever saw, with the possible exception of
> Quino's brilliant _Toda Mafalda_.
Whatever.
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CE98B8E...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.compost) wrote:
The INPNC score of "To them, my OM, by de Vere (fool)" is *at best*
8/22, or about 36%. Probably one should not even count "OM," since
there is no extant reference to Oxford's men by that acronym. Most of
the others (Agnes a gob, etc.) are *not even anagrams* and hence merit
an INPNC score of 0.
> You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%. To suggest that
Herodotus had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is. "Saint
Monica" is an anagram of "Ain't Masonic," which has an INPNC of 7/11,
or about 64%. And so forth.
> > For instance, the
> > moronic "I kill Edwasd de Vese" merits an INPNC score of 0/17, since
> > "Edwasd" is not a proper name in any natural language known to me.
> The name "EdwaRd de VeRe" is hidden
> by "S(hake) S(peare)"
>
> It sort of makes sense and INPNC = 10/17
You cannot even apply your own idiotic criterion!
[...]
> Almost any anagram (or near anagram) with an INPNC <0.5 is not worth
> taking seriously. But that does not mean that it isn't fun to generate
> such low INPNC anagrams.
In that case, I repeat that "Hide brash Southampton" is an anagram of
"Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
> > > > Lyra wrote:
> > >
> > > > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > > > >
> > > > > anagrams
> > > > >
> > > > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
> > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > >
> > > > You're still missing a few. For example,
> > > >
> > > > "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
>
> > > Note: INPNC = 9/22
> > >
> > > Only 9 of the 22 letters refers to proper names.
Can't you count, Art? An INPNC score of 9/22 is *better* than the
8/22 score of "To them, my OM, by de Vere (fool)," a lame and incorrect
anagram you've posted countless times.
[...]
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >
> > > I trust that these examples suffice to demonstrate how absurd the use
> > > of low INPNC anagrams is.
> > No, Art; these examples merely suffice to demonstrate how absurd the
> > use of the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion is.
> Then you should have no problem in generating meaningless *high*
> INPNC anagrams.
I have done so on numerous occasions, Art, as you know quite well;
however, surely a *meaningful* and *plausible* anagram -- like, for
example, "Art (dumbshit) has no hope" -- trumps a meaningless one,
whateVER the respective INPNC scores.
No, Art; "tous" is not English, and "phantom" is not French (the
word is "fantôme"). Mongrel anagrams of this sort are as ludicrous as
"Agnes Boga."
> > In fact, I you're barking up the wrong tree, Art --
> >
> > "Hide brash Southampton" is a perfect anagram of
> >
> > "Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
> There you go again, Dave: INPNC= 3/20.
>
> > Given that you evidently cannot even count to two, Art, the VERacity of
> > this decipherment can scarcely be gainsaid.
> >
> > > <<Fagin sat watching in his old lair, with face so distorted and pale,
> > > and eyes so red and blood-shot, that he looked less like a man, than
> > > like some hideOUS PHANTOM, moist from the grave, and worried by an
> > > evil spirit. He sat crouching over a cold hearth, wrapped in an old
> > > torn coverlet,>> - oliver twist
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "KIT MARLOWE"
> > > "OMIT WALKER"
> > But Art -- "Kit Marlowe" is a perfect anagram of "Klima wrote,"
> > showing the novelist Ivan Klima to be the true author of the works
> > attributed to Marlowe.
> INPNC= 5/10
>
> That's a little better, Dave.
It's certainly better than virtually all of your anagrams, most of
which aren't even anagrams.
> > > Tom Reedy wrote:
> > >
> > > > One of my ancestors married Shakespeare's niece.
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Robert Arden of Wilmcote --- Agnes WEBBE Sir Thomas
> > > | (sister) Wilson (d.1581)
> > > | (of) | secretary
> > > Margaret Arden (b.1538) --- Alexander WEBBE(1534-73) | of QE.I
> > > | |
> > > /---------/----------------\ |
> > > | | Alexander |
> > > Sara Robert WEBBE II ------------ Mary Wilson
> > > Ann WEBBE (1559-1630) |
> > > Mary |
> > > Elizabeth |
> > > | |
> > > | David L. WEBB
> > > Tom Reedy --- Brenda Reedy
> > > |
> > > Kit Jr.
> > Proof, Art? Alexander Webbe spelled his surname with an extra "e."
> > Since you (along with Mr. Streitz, Stephanie, and other notoriously
> > clueless individuals) apparently find the spellings "Shakespere" and
> > "Shakspere" so different that they could not possibly refer to the same
> > individual, it follows by your own orthographic analysis that Alexander
> > Webbe cannot have been my ancestor.
> The point is that Shakespeare is pronounced
> differently from Shakspeare.
Don't tell me that you believe Streitz's "magic 'e'" rule, Art! Do
you believe in Streitz's theories of aerodynamics and AIDS etiology as
well, Art?
> Is Webbe pronounced differently from Webb?
> > (You would do better to consult the Priory of Sion's
> > more reliable genealogies of the Sacred Bloodline, Art.)
> Are your relatives in their genealogies?
Why don't you check for yourself, Art?
Tom didn't cancel it; the Grand Master did, Art.
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "Ghost Who Walks Will Never Die": The Phantom's First 400 Years.
> > > http://www.kingfeatures.com/features/comics/phantom/about.htm
> > >
> > > <<Such is the riveting, myth-freighted legend of The Phantom -- "The
> > > Ghost Who Walks," "The Man Who Cannot Die," "The Guardian of the Eastern
> > > Dark." In the beginning he had been a half-drowned sailor, flung ashore
> > > on the terrible, blood-drenched Bengalla coast after pirates burned his
> > > ship and slaughtered his mates. The gentle Bandar pygmies, taking him to
> > > be a sea god of ancient prophecy, nursed him back to fitness and became
> > > his everlasting friends -- as the castaway faced his destiny, donned
> > > costume and mask and was reborn as the first of the Phantoms, scourge of
> > > predators everywhere.
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > Drawing inferences about the authorship of Elizabethan dramas and
> > poetry from 20th-century comic books is certainly in the venerable
> > Oxfordian tradition -- the books of the Ogburns, Clark, Sobran, and
> > especially Mr. Streitz are practically comic books even *without* the
> > graphics. In particular, Mr. Streitz's book affords more laughs per
> > page than I comic book I ever saw, with the possible exception of
> > Quino's brilliant _Toda Mafalda_.
> Whatever.
Not even whateVER, Art? Mr. Streitz's book should be right up your
alley, Art!
David Webb
Neuendorffer
>
> > > >
> > > > > The appearance of the initials "C.M." is, to put it quite mildly,
> > > > > unpersuasive -- one can take virtually *any* text of reasonable length
> > > > > containing the letters "C" and "M" and produce multiple random and
> > > > > utterly meaningless anagrams.
>
> > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >
> > > > In other words: it is important to have a high ratio of Proper Names
> > > > (i.e., a high INPNC) in one's anagram.
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > No, Art; a high Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Names Criterion score
> > > means VERy little. In fact, your own habitual cavalier and almost
> > > complete disregard for the INPNC in assessing your own anagrams
> > > underscores the INPNC's worthlessness emphatically.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
> > I almost always insist on a high INPNC.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> The INPNC score of "To them, my OM, by de Vere (fool)" is *at best*
> 8/22, or about 36%. Probably one should not even count "OM," since
> there is no extant reference to Oxford's men by that acronym.
True, but this only involves a shuffle permutation:
------------------------------------------------------------
A shuffle permutation of 10 objects in five decks:
only 10!/(3!*1!*1!*4!*1!) = 25,200 possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------
"(To the m)emory of my beloved "
(To the m)[-eMOry of my beloVED]
(To them) [my OM, by fo(DEVere)ol-]
" To them, my OM, by fo(DEVere)ol- "
--------------------------------------------------------------
[my OM, by fo(DEVere)ol-] => [-eMOry of my beloved]
[m-y-OM-by-fo-DEV-e-r-e-ol-] => [-e-MO-r-y-of-m-yb-e-lo-VED]
--------------------------------------------------------------
m-y-OM- => -MO -y -m
by- => -yb
fo- => -of
DEV-e-r-e- => -e -r -e -VED
ol- => -lo
--------------------------------------------------------------
[m-y-OM-by-fo-DEV-e-r-e-ol-] => [-e-MO-r-y-of-m-yb-e-lo-VED]
---------------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the others
> (Agnes a gob, etc.) are *not even anagrams*
> and hence merit an INPNC score of 0.
They all represent valid word play:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"CLAMBERIN[G] TO HANG, AN ENVIOUS SLIVER BROKE":
L
V E R O N I L V E R I U S
E
N
K
C
N
I
R
B
A G N E S A B O[Y]
A
M
O
H
T
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
>
> Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> To suggest that
> Herodotus had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
<<Next to the infamous engraving in Dugdale's Antiquities of
Warwickshire, Dugdale transcribed both the Latin and English verses from
Shakespeare's tomb, along with the verse from the gravestone. Except for
minor spelling differences (entirely typical of Dugdale), these verses
are the same as those seen today. The Latin reads:
Ivdicio Pylivm, genio Socratem, arte Maronem,
Terra tegit, popvlvs maeret, Olympvs habet
which may be translated thus:
In judgment a Nestor, in wit a Socrates, in art a Virgil;
the earth buries [him], the people mourn [him], Olympus possesses [him]
On the page facing the engraving of the monument,
Dugdale writes the following in his account of Stratford:
One thing more, in reference to this antient town is observable,
that it gave birth and sepulture to our late famous Poet Will.
Shakespeare, whose Monument I have inserted in my discourse of the
Church. [Shakspere Allusion-Book, II, 62]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> "Saint Monica" is an anagram of "Ain't Masonic,"
> which has an INPNC of 7/11, or about 64%.
Is "ain't" a real word?
> > > For instance, the
> > > moronic "I kill Edwasd de Vese" merits an INPNC score of 0/17, since
> > > "Edwasd" is not a proper name in any natural language known to me.
>
> > The name "EdwaRd de VeRe" is hidden
> > by "S(hake) S(peare)"
> >
> > It sort of makes sense and INPNC = 10/17
>
> You cannot even apply your own idiotic criterion!
No, it is INPNC = 10/17
> > Almost any anagram (or near anagram) with an INPNC <0.5 is not worth
> > taking seriously. But that does not mean that it isn't fun to generate
> > such low INPNC anagrams.
>
> In that case, I repeat that "Hide brash Southampton" is an anagram of
>
> "Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
That wasn't fun.
> > > > > Lyra wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > > > > >
> > > > > > anagrams
> > > > > >
> > > > > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > > > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
>
> > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You're still missing a few. For example,
> > > > >
> > > > > "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
>
> > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >
> > > > Note: INPNC = 9/22
> > > >
> > > > Only 9 of the 22 letters refers to proper names.
>
> Can't you count, Art? An INPNC score of 9/22 is *better* than the
> 8/22 score of "To them, my OM, by de Vere (fool)," a lame and incorrect
> anagram you've posted countless times.
True, but this only involves a shuffle permutation:
------------------------------------------------------------
A shuffle permutation of 10 objects in five decks:
only 10!/(3!*1!*1!*4!*1!) = 25,200 possibilities.
----------------------------------------------------------
"(To the m)emory of my beloved "
(To the m)[-eMOry of my beloVED]
(To them) [my OM, by fo(DEVere)ol-]
" To them, my OM, by fo(DEVere)ol- "
--------------------------------------------------------------
[my OM, by fo(DEVere)ol-] => [-eMOry of my beloved]
[m-y-OM-by-fo-DEV-e-r-e-ol-] => [-e-MO-r-y-of-m-yb-e-lo-VED]
--------------------------------------------------------------
m-y-OM- => -MO -y -m
by- => -yb
fo- => -of
DEV-e-r-e- => -e -r -e -VED
ol- => -lo
--------------------------------------------------------------
[m-y-OM-by-fo-DEV-e-r-e-ol-] => [-e-MO-r-y-of-m-yb-e-lo-VED]
---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > >
> > > > I trust that these examples suffice to demonstrate how absurd the use
> > > > of low INPNC anagrams is.
>
> > > No, Art; these examples merely suffice to demonstrate how absurd the
> > > use of the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion is.
>
> > Then you should have no problem in generating meaningless *high*
> > INPNC anagrams.
>
> I have done so on numerous occasions, Art, as you know quite well;
I can't recall one (except for the real: Droeshout/Herodotus).
As "VERO" is shorthand for Oxford
"TOUS" is shorthand for Southampton
> > > In fact, I you're barking up the wrong tree, Art --
> > >
> > > "Hide brash Southampton" is a perfect anagram of
> > >
> > > "Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
>
> > There you go again, Dave: INPNC= 3/20.
> >
> > > Given that you evidently cannot even count to two, Art, the VERacity of
> > > this decipherment can scarcely be gainsaid.
> > >
> > > > <<Fagin sat watching in his old lair, with face so distorted and pale,
> > > > and eyes so red and blood-shot, that he looked less like a man, than
> > > > like some hideOUS PHANTOM, moist from the grave, and worried by an
> > > > evil spirit. He sat crouching over a cold hearth, wrapped in an old
> > > > torn coverlet,>> - oliver twist
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > "KIT MARLOWE"
> > > > "OMIT WALKER"
>
> > > But Art -- "Kit Marlowe" is a perfect anagram of "Klima wrote,"
> > > showing the novelist Ivan Klima to be the true author of the works
> > > attributed to Marlowe.
>
> > INPNC= 5/10
> >
> > That's a little better, Dave.
>
> It's certainly better than virtually all of your anagrams, most of
> which aren't even anagrams.
It's not even as good as "OMIT WALKER" INPNC = 6/10
Streitz's theories of aerodynamics and AIDS etiology are original.
Streitz's "magic 'e'" rule is standard anti-Stratfordian.
> > Is Webbe pronounced differently from Webb?
>
> > > (You would do better to consult the Priory of Sion's
> > > more reliable genealogies of the Sacred Bloodline, Art.)
>
> > Are your relatives in their genealogies?
>
> Why don't you check for yourself, Art?
I wouldn't know where to begin.
>> > Tom Reedy wrote:
> >
>> > > Hi Bob. thanks for the compliment, but as you know, who we debate is out of
>> > > our hands. I got an e-mail from the Trust & was assigned Foelster just as
>> > > soon as his name appeared on the ng. Boy, I'm glad I was taken off Crowley:
>>>> the man is too well-read & intelligent, it was all I could do to keep up with
>> > > him. I'm damn glad they've never given me Art to debate; I feel sorry for
>> > > poor David. Of course that new anagram program they have is sure coming in
>> > > handy for him, but I *NEVER* want to go toe-to-toe with Art--he knows too
>> > > much, although I doubt if he's even aware of all he knows.
> > >
>> > > Hey, I finally got the check. Something about a computer virus in the
>> > > mainframe at Stratford. I was glad to see it--the rent was overdue &
>> > > I had to pay a late fee.
> > >
>> > > Sorry about that last e-mail appearing on the ng. Apparently I hit "post"
>> > > instead of "e-mail." It won't happen again.
>> > >
>> > > My 14-year-old is giving me trouble--the usual ersatz teenage angst. He
>> > > doesn't want to accept his occupation being already chosen for him. I told
>> > > him it was like the Phantom--the ghost who walks--& that it was an honor to
Well that explains that. (Is Brenda the Grand Master?)
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CEAEDB6...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.comedy) wrote:
[...]
Ten objects partitioned into five decks is *VERy* unimpressive, Art
-- I might be slightly impressed if the shuffle only involved two
decks, but *FIVE*?! No, this anagram has a poor INPNC score.
> > Most of the others
> > (Agnes a gob, etc.) are *not even anagrams*
> > and hence merit an INPNC score of 0.
[...]
> > > You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
> > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> > To suggest that
> > Herodotus had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
It's just as idiotic to imagine that they had anything to do with
writing Shakespeare as it to suggest that Herodotus did.
[...]
> > "Saint Monica" is an anagram of "Ain't Masonic,"
> > which has an INPNC of 7/11, or about 64%.
> Is "ain't" a real word?
If you think that it ain't, then perhaps you would prefer the
anagram
"Anti Masonic."
> > > > For instance, the
> > > > moronic "I kill Edwasd de Vese" merits an INPNC score of 0/17, since
> > > > "Edwasd" is not a proper name in any natural language known to me.
> > > The name "EdwaRd de VeRe" is hidden
> > > by "S(hake) S(peare)"
> > >
> > > It sort of makes sense and INPNC = 10/17
No, Ast -- it maker no renre to conjectuse asbitsasily that "s" and
"r" ase inteschangeable. Indeed, ruch a ruggestion ir mosonic.
[...]
> > > Almost any anagram (or near anagram) with an INPNC <0.5 is not worth
> > > taking seriously. But that does not mean that it isn't fun to generate
> > > such low INPNC anagrams.
> > In that case, I repeat that "Hide brash Southampton" is an anagram of
> >
> > "Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
> That wasn't fun.
Of course it was!
> > > > > > Lyra wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > anagrams
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > > > > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
> > > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > You're still missing a few. For example,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
> > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Note: INPNC = 9/22
> > > > >
> > > > > Only 9 of the 22 letters refers to proper names.
> > Can't you count, Art? An INPNC score of 9/22 is *better* than the
> > 8/22 score of "To them, my OM, by de Vere (fool)," a lame and incorrect
> > anagram you've posted countless times.
> True, but this only involves a shuffle permutation:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> A shuffle permutation of 10 objects in five decks:
> only 10!/(3!*1!*1!*4!*1!) = 25,200 possibilities.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
As noted, a shuffle permutation of ten objects in *five* decks is
risible -- what next? a shuffle permutation of ten objects in ten
decks?!
> > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I trust that these examples suffice to demonstrate how absurd the use
> > > > > of low INPNC anagrams is.
> > > > No, Art; these examples merely suffice to demonstrate how absurd the
> > > > use of the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion is.
> > > Then you should have no problem in generating meaningless *high*
> > > INPNC anagrams.
> > I have done so on numerous occasions, Art, as you know quite well;
> I can't recall one (except for the real: Droeshout/Herodotus).
I know quite well that you have memory problems, Art, but they're
not my fault.
If frogs had wings, they could fly. "Vero" is *not* shorthand for
Oxford (or at any rate, there is certainly no evidence to that effect),
and "tous" is *not* shorthand for Southampton.
> > > > In fact, I you're barking up the wrong tree, Art --
> > > >
> > > > "Hide brash Southampton" is a perfect anagram of
> > > >
> > > > "Art (dumbshit) has no hope."
> > > There you go again, Dave: INPNC= 3/20.
> > > > Given that you evidently cannot even count to two, Art, the VERacity of
> > > > this decipherment can scarcely be gainsaid.
> > > > > <<Fagin sat watching in his old lair, with face so distorted and pale,
> > > > > and eyes so red and blood-shot, that he looked less like a man, than
> > > > > like some hideOUS PHANTOM, moist from the grave, and worried by an
> > > > > evil spirit. He sat crouching over a cold hearth, wrapped in an old
> > > > > torn coverlet,>> - oliver twist
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > "KIT MARLOWE"
> > > > > "OMIT WALKER"
> > > > But Art -- "Kit Marlowe" is a perfect anagram of "Klima wrote,"
> > > > showing the novelist Ivan Klima to be the true author of the works
> > > > attributed to Marlowe.
> > > INPNC= 5/10
> > >
> > > That's a little better, Dave.
> > It's certainly better than virtually all of your anagrams, most of
> > which aren't even anagrams.
> It's not even as good as "OMIT WALKER" INPNC = 6/10
But "Omit Walker" makes no sense.
Streitz's theories of aerodynamics and AIDS etiology are completely
standard among ignorant cranks who know no science.
Streitz's "magic 'e'" rule is completely standard among ignorant
cranks who know no Elizabethan literary history.
> > > Is Webbe pronounced differently from Webb?
> > > > (You would do better to consult the Priory of Sion's
> > > > more reliable genealogies of the Sacred Bloodline, Art.)
> > > Are your relatives in their genealogies?
> > Why don't you check for yourself, Art?
> I wouldn't know where to begin.
I know, Art -- therein lies your problem (well, one of them, anyway).
No, Art; the Grand Master always takes the name John. I thought you
knew that.
David Webb
Neuendorffer
> > > > Then I take it that you have no problem with:
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > TOUS-PHANTOM
> > > > SOUT-HAMPTON
> > > > "UNG par TOUS, TOUS par UNG" => Southampton Motto
> > > > ONE for ALL , ALL for ONE.
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > No, Art; "tous" is not English, and "phantom" is not French (the
> > > word is "fantôme"). Mongrel anagrams of this sort are as ludicrous
> > > as "Agnes Boga."
>
> > As "VERO" is shorthand for Oxford
> > "TOUS" is shorthand for Southampton
"David L. Webb" wrote:
There are a lot of things that make no sense:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sirbacon.org/links/parentage.htm
http://www.xrefer.com/entry/554920
<<A previous owner of Shakespeare's house in Blackfriar's was Anne
Bacon. (Francis' mother) In 1604, her son, Matthew Bacon sold it
to Henry WALKER, who sold it in 1613 to William Shakespeare.
Matthew was admitted to Gray's Inn in 1597.>>
<<New Place was sold in 1675 to Sir Edward WALKER, and passed
from him to his daughter and, in 1699, into the Clopton family.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
> > Neuendorffer wrote (David L. Webb):
> > > You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
Neuendorffer wrote:
> Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
>
> > To suggest that Herodotus
> > had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
>
> Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
------------------------------------------------------------
Well, . . .on average, atleast. :-)
http://dev(i)lab.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/27.html
<<Later Greeks dated the Trojan War as follows:
1184 B.C. (Eratosthenes),
1209/8 B.C. (the Parian Marble),
ca. 1250 B.C. (Herodotus),
and 1334/3 B.C. (Douris).>>
Nestor: c. 1250 BC {ca. 1250 B.C.}
Socrates: c. 430 BC {469 BC - 399 BC}
Virgil c. 30 BC {Oct. 15, 70 BC
----------- - Sept. 21, 19 BC}
average: c. 570 BC
Herodotus c. 444 BC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://phd.evansville.edu/tools/loc/sybaris.htm
<<Sybaris was founded in 720 by settlers from Peloponnese and was very
prosperous for a while. It retained a reputation of luxury and lush life
(hence the word "sybarite" for one living a life of pleasure and luxury
; see Herodotus, VI, 127). The city was destroyed in 511 by neighboring
Crotona (Herodotus, V, 44-45 and VI, 21). After two unsuccessful
attempts at reviving the city, in 444 the panhellenic city of Thurii
was created near the site of Sybaris at the instigation of Pericles.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
<<On the page facing the engraving of the monument,
Dugdale writes the following in his account of Stratford:
One thing more, in reference to this antient town is observable,
that it GAVE BIRTH and sepulture to our late famous Poet Will.
Shakespeare, whose Monument I have inserted in my discourse of
the Church. [Shakspere Allusion-Book, II, 62]>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Terra tegit, popvlvs maeret, Olympvs habet
the earth COVERS [me], the people mourn [me], Olympus has [me]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Mantua me genuit; Calabri rapuere; tenet nunc Parthenope.
Mantua GAVE BIRTH to me, the Calabrians took me, now Naples holds me;
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Virgil's tomb, which once was treated like a shrine, has disappeared.
Supposedly his epitaph was:
Mantua me genuit; Calabri rapuere; tenet nunc Parthenope.
Cecini pascua, rura, duces
Mantua gave birth to me, the Calabrians took me, now Naples holds me;
I sang of pastures, country & leaders
[Eclogues] [Georgics] [Aeneiad]).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"OUR EVER-LIVIN(G) POET"
"UNO VERE-VIR(G)IL POET"
"NIL VERO-VERIU(S) POET"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
<<Dugdale transcribed both the Latin and English verses from
Shakespeare's tomb, along with the verse from the gravestone.
Except for minor spelling differences (entirely typical of Dugdale),
these verses are the same as those seen today. The Latin reads:
Ivdicio Pylivm, genio Socratem, arte Maronem,
Terra tegit, popvlvs maeret, Olympvs habet
which may be translated thus:
In judgment a Nestor, in wit a Socrates, in art a Virgil;
the earth COVERS [him], the people mourn [him], Olympus has [him]>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
<<In 1631, a year before his death, John Weever published the massive
Ancient Funerall Monuments, which recorded many inscriptions from
monuments around England, particularly in Canterbury, Rochester, London,
and Norwich. Shakespeare's monument does not appear in the published
book, but two of Weever's notebooks, containing his drafts for most
of the book as well as many unpublished notes, survive as Society of
Antiquaries MSS. 127 and 128. In one of these notebooks, under the
heading "Stratford upon Avon," Weever recorded the poems from
Shakespeare's monument and his gravestone, as follows:
Iudcio Pilum, Genio Socratem, Arte Maronem
Terra tegit, populus maeret, Olympus habet.
Stay Passenger, why goest thou by so fast
Read if your canst whome envious death hath plac'd
Within this monument Shakespeare with whome
Quick Nature dy'd whose name doth deck his Tombe
far more then cost, sith all yt hee hath writt
Leaves living Art but page to serve his witt.
ob Ano doi 1616 AEtat. 53. 24 die April
In the margin opposite the heading "Stratford upon Avon", Weever wrote
"Willm Shakespeare the famous poet", and opposite the last two lines
of the epitaph he wrote "vpo[n] the grave stone".>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOSEA 10:8 The high places also of AVEN, the sin of Israel, shall
be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars;
and they shall say to the mountains, COVER US;
* AVEN *: nothingness; VANITY.
Hosea speaks of the "high places of Aven", by which he means Bethel.
He also calls it Beth-aven, i.e., "the house of VANITY",
on account of the golden calves Jeroboam had set up there.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Pensees - Blaise Pascal
<<HOSEA, the last chapter, the last verse,
after many temporal blessings, says:
"Who is wise, and he shall understand these things?">>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dwebb wrote:
> > To suggest that Herodotus had anything to do
> > with the writing of the Shakespeare canon is of course moronic,
> > since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only limns
> > starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
<<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
Their principal concern was the synthesis of disparate local legends
into sustained, coherent accounts, with elaborate genealogies that would
trace the history of important families back to famous mythological
figures. Like so many other elements of classical Greek culture, this
practice first appears in Asia Minor, but it is a far cry from what we
would call history. While the LOGOGRAPHERs did record the local history
of various city-states, they did so in mythological terms. Thus,
although they employed prose, to a certain degree they merely
"translated" the poetic/mythological tradition into a new medium.
(Compare Geoffrey of Monmouth's history of Britain.) For the most part,
the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
historians.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
<<Herodotus' use of myth is quite cunning, at times seeming
to translate specific literary genres into the medium of prose
"history." Many have noted, e.g., that the story of Croesus' son
Atys has been developed along lines that directly recall the practices
of the Greek tragedians. (One German scholar has even "translated"
the story into tragic verse.) This is even more interesting
when we consider:
(1) that an ancient tradition held that Herodotus was
a friend of Sophocles, the famous tragic playwright;
(2) that Herodotus and Sophocles sound similar themes in their works.
In any case, you want to be careful when reading Herodotus: like
Chaucer, he presents us with a narrator who at times seems incredibly
naive, even absurd, but there is evidence that, like Chaucer, a cunning
intelligence lies beneath that humble facade.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
<<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
Their principal concern was the synthesis of disparate local legends
into sustained, coherent accounts, with elaborate genealogies that would
trace the history of important families back to famous mythological
figures. Like so many other elements of classical Greek culture, this
practice first appears in Asia Minor, but it is a far cry from what we
would call history. While the LOGOGRAPHERs did record the local history
of various city-states, they did so in mythological terms. Thus,
although they employed prose, to a certain degree they merely
"translated" the poetic/mythological tradition into a new medium.
(Compare Geoffrey of Monmouth's history of Britain.) For the most part,
the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
historians.>>
<<We can see the influence of the LOGOGRAPHERs reflected
quite clearly in Herodotus' work. Note, e.g., his attention to the
geography and cultures of the various peoples with which he deals, and
his general awareness of the nomos-physis controversy. Note as well
his use of myth, his tendency to rationalize or reject traditional
stories of the Greeks and others. (Herodotus often echoes
the skepticism found in a famous statement of HECATAEUS:
"What I write here is the account I believe to be true. The Greeks
tell many stories on the topic which are, in my opinion, absurd".
Herodotus' use of the term *historia ("inquiry" or "research") in the
opening sentence of his work marks him as a product of an age that was
beginning to question the older mythopoetic tradition.>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
SEGUII TE, SHACESPEARE [It.]
I FOLLOWED YOU, SHACESPEARE
HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
TUO SHACESPEARE DIO [It.]
YOUR SHACESPEARE GOD
HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
TU SHACESPEARE ODIO [Sp.]
YOUR SHACESPEARE HATRED
HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
TI ESEGUI SHACESPEARE [It.]
YOU EXECUTE SHACESPEARE
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
The most famous of the LOGOGRAPHERs is *HECATAEUS of Miletus (fl. late
6th century), who responded to the increasing interest in foreign trade
and travel by writing what could best be called a descriptive geography.
Known as a PERIPLOUS (lit. "a sailing around"), PERIEGESIS, or PERIODOS,
this type of work originally was intended as a practical guide for
mariners, who traditionally avoided the dangers of the open sea by
hugging the coast in their journeys (cf. Mardonius' expedition in 492).
The PERIPLOUS described the route that sailors would follow: safe
harbors, treacherous areas, and, of course, the various peoples with
which one would come into contact. Over time it appears that these
practical guides grew in scope, describing the geography of the interior
and going into further detail of the customs and habits of various
foreign peoples. Thus more and more attention came to be paid to matters
of *ethnography (the study of foreign cultures), the beginnings of what
we today call anthropology. These studies will be of particular
importance in the course of the 5th century. The Greeks had always been
aware that foreign peoples worshipped different gods and had different
customs from their own. The rise of these ethnographic studies, however,
encouraged systematic reflection on the nature of human culture and
society, and suggested that matters which the Greeks had always taken
to be founded in immutable divine law, sanctioned by the Olympian gods,
were in fact merely human inventions which other societies either
ignored or directly contravened. This realization led to a sharp
distinction between things that existed according to *physis ("nature")
and those that existed merely according to *nomos ("custom").
Nomos is a complex term. It literally means "custom"
or "convention," the way things traditionally have been done.
In the highly conservative societies of ancient Greece, however —
where "the ways of our ancestors" were regarded with reverence, where
history was often viewed as a process of decline from the noble age of
heroes, and where the adjective "new" often carried overtones of
"strange" or "evil" — the term nomos had a force that the English
"convention" altogether lacks. In religious matters, nomos was
particularly important. Ancient Greek religion was largely a communal
affair, a matter of pleasing the supernatural rulers of this world to
ensure the community's continued prosperity (healthy children, crops,
and herds; success in war; freedom from plague, drought, blight, etc.).
In conducting religious rites it was important to follow the methods
that had been successful in the past, since to deviate from tradition
was to risk incurring divine anger. (Thus a common expression in Greek
for worshipping the gods literally means "to treat the gods according to
nomos.") In the legal sphere, nomos is the proper term for "law" — i.e.
the "customs" or "mores" of the society as enshrined in a legal code.
The nomos-physis distinction, however, suggested a different view
of nomos, as something arbitrary. According to physis, the human
animal needs food, water, air, warmth, and shelter or it will perish.
The sex-drive also exists by physis, something that ensures the
continuation of the race and is innate. Concern for the gods, however,
or for fairness in one's dealings with others; taboos against murder or
incest; religious practices of various sorts; fashions in clothing or in
diet — such things are mere human conventions, as the studies of the
ethnographers indicated, and are not essential to our physis (the latter
tending to be associated with self-interest, defined in the narrowest of
terms). In fact, these conventions can be viewed as chains upon physis,
arbitrarily limiting the individual's scope of action.>>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~atstover/herodotus/
<<Herodotus was born (c 484 BC) in a Greek city on the coast of lower
Asia Minor. He was raised by his wealthy family to be loyal to Greece,
despite the location of his hometown, Halicarnassus. This caused him
trouble with the Persians who took over the colony and exiled him. He
lived in Athens long enough to have met Sophocles and then he moved to
Thurii, A greek colony in Italy. It is uncertain when he died, however,
his History ended in 430 BC. He probably lived in Athens, or central
Greece, at the onset of the Peloponnesian War.
Travels:
Herodotus traveled a lot. His wealth and determination were a large
factor in this. Unlike other historians of his time, Herodotus was
interested in a broad area over a brief time span. Formerly, historians
covered a small area over a long time (usually folklore about a city
from its founding). Herodotus, on the other hand had money on his side.
He could afford to travel and see the world. That may have been what was
holding other historians back. Many of the places he went were very
related to the writing of his History. He had an eye for culture, and he
was an excellent geographer. Here is a list of the many places he went,
some of which you will not be able to find on the map, due to the
distance.
<<HERODOTUS is said to have been one of the colonists of
the second Sybaris.>> - New Century Classical Handbook
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~atstover/herodotus/hist.html
During the time of Herodotus, historians weren't known of as they are
now. Actually, they were called LOGOGRAPHERs, and their history was more
folklore than anything else. Unlike the others, Herodotus was not just
a 'writer of tales' (technical translation of logographer), but a
collector of facts. He had begun something that would revolutionize
history, or at least record it better. He took the role of logographer,
but spent much more time investigating things, interviewing people,
learning about the cultures of other lands. This was more than
telling stories to him, it was searching for the untold.
The History was written to evaluate the wars between Greece and Persia,
including the events that lead up to war. It is divided into nine books,
although Herodotus had not organized them in this way (uncertain who
made the division). Books one through four cover the background to the
conflict. He mostly used these books to look into Persia before the war.
He covered Persian Kings and conquests. He studied the cultures Persia
had seized. He went places that Persian Kings and Warriors went. Books
five through nine consisted of the actual war with Greece, beginning
with the Ionian Revolt and ending with Greek victory. Unlike his
successor, Thucydides, it is quite obvious that Herodotus was not
knowledgeable about the military. He wrote a very thorough description,
however it did lack the technical incorporation helpful for a complete
understanding.
His outlook on life and the war is quite interesting. He wanted to
portay the war as a tale, but did not wish to veer from the facts. He
stayed away from religion, but tried to keep a Homeric narration. He did
this by using the warriors and events as pawns for the gods. He never
actually had the gods enter the field as Homer often did. He believed
that Persia lost due solely to their pride, and that their vanity
angered the gods.
Below is a short outline of Herodotus' History:
Book i: Clio
- the history and description of Lydia and its conquest by the Persians
- story or Cyrus, his defeat of the Medes,
and his attack on Massagetae, and then his death
Book ii: Euterpe
- succession of Cyrus' son, Cambyses
- gives his plan to attack Egypt
- followed by a long description of the land of Egypt
Book iii: Thalia
- describes the Persian conquest of Egypt
- and failure to take the southern regions (Ethiopia)
- the madness and death of Cambyses, and struggle over leadership
- Darius chosen as king, he organizes the large new empire
- a few revolts are suppressed
Book iv: Melpomene
- description of Scythian people
- Darius proposes to attack Scythia by crossing the Bosporus
- the story of the invasion of Scythia
- the story of Persia's taking over the Greek cities Byzantium & Libya
- description of Libya
Book v: Terpsichore
- describes Persian advances and the submission
of Thrace and Macedonia and other Greek cities
- the Ionian Revolt in 499 bc
Book vi: Erato
Book vii: Polymnia
Book viii: Urania
Book ix: Calliope
- the last books consist of his main work, a history of the battles
and military occurrences between Greece and Persia
- ends with Greek victory
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Love's Labour's Lost Act 5, Scene 2
ADRIANO DE ARMADO This side is HIEMS, Winter,
this VER, the SPRING;
the one maintained by the owl,
the other by the CUCKOO. VER, begin.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
[H]elen, [I]o, [E]uropa, & [M]edea
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Herodotus and Myth: I
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
<<Herodotus begins his account of tensions between the Greeks and the
East by reaching back into the realm of myth and arguing that the
stories of [H]elen, [I]o, [E]uropa, & [M]edea reflect the beginnings of
a lengthy series of disputes that culminate in the Persian Wars. Here
we meet yet another puzzling feature of Herodotus' approach to history.
Compare Herodotus' account with the following standard versions of
these women's stories as Herodotus' audience knew them.
[H]elen: see The Mythological Background of Homer's Iliad.
[I]o: daughter of Inachus, king of Argos (in the Peloponnese). She
caught the attention of Zeus, who came down to rape her and hid his
activities from Hera by covering Argos in a cloud. Hera became
suspicious and popped down to see what was going on. Not knowing what to
do, Zeus transformed Io into a cow. Hera saw through his deception and
asked if she might have the cow as her own. Not seeing how he could
reasonably refuse, Zeus complied, whereupon Hera set the watchman Argos
to guard Io and make certain that Zeus kept his distance. Argos had eyes
all over his body, some of which were always awake. Hermes hypnotized
Argos with his magic staff and killed him, so Hera set a gad-fly on poor
Io. This creature tormented Io constantly and sent her wandering
desperately all over the globe until eventually she arrived in Egypt,
where she was released from Hera's anger, restored to her human shape,
and gave birth to the god Epaphus (identified by the Greeks with the
Egyptian bull-god Apis).
[E]uropa: daughter of Agenor, king of Tyre (in the Levant). Zeus
fell in love with her as she was gathering flowers by the seashore and
disguised himself as a bull. Europa saw the bull and was so taken with
it that she climbed on its back, whereupon Zeus swam off to Crete, where
he raped her. Europa bore Minos and Rhadamanthys.
[M]edea: daughter of king Aeetes of Colchis (on the far eastern shore
of the Black Sea). Jason and the Argonauts came to Colchis in search of
the golden fleece, which was in Aeetes' possession. Aeetes did not take
kindly to this and, as a condition for handing over the fleece, set a
series of impossible tasks for Jason to accomplish. The princess Medea,
who was also a practiced sorceress, fell in love with Jason and used her
magic powers to help him complete his task. Aeetes was enraged and
suspected treachery, but before he could act Medea ran off with Jason,
first helping him retrieve the fleece from the dragon that guarded it.
After further questionable adventures, Medea was deserted by Jason and
took revenge by killing, not only Jason's new bride, but her own
children by Jason. (This story is the subject of a famous play by
Euripides.)
Not only is Herodotus' version of these myths peculiar — notice how he
has rationalized the traditional versions, presenting them in a new,
"secular" form — but the very mention of these figures of myth is
problematic. (Imagine a history of the Second World War that began
by claiming that the author's researches indicated that the tensions
between Germany and the rest of Europe could be traced back to the
affair of Hansel and Gretel!) Moreover, Herodotus cites Persian and
Phoenician sources for all of this, the equivalent of getting the
"true" (revisionist) version of George Washington and the cherry tree
from "learned English historians." >>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
<<Only after this curious beginning does Herodotus turn to what we
would call historical matters, focusing on King Croesus of Lydia (1.6).
Here we again see Herodotus' odd habit of backing into his stories.
What Herodotus sets out to describe in Book 1 of the Histories is the
expansion of the Persian Empire, under its king *Cyrus, into Asia Minor
in the 6th century B.C. The heart of the Persian Empire (Persis,
the chief cities of which were Susa and Persepolis) lay in
present-day Iran. To the north was the empire of the Medes (Media,
the capital of which was Ecbatana), which rose to prominence after
overthrowing the old Assyrian empire in 612 B.C. In Asia Minor were
a series of smaller kingdoms, the most prominent of which in the 6th
century was that of Lydia. A chronological account of the growth of the
Persian Empire would begin, then, with the conquest of the Medes, under
their king Astyages, to the north and the subsequent Persian expansion
westward, with the eventual conquest of the Lydians, under their king
*Croesus, in Asia Minor. Instead, Herodotus begins by focusing our
attention on Croesus of Lydia, as "the first foreigner so far as we know
to come into direct contact with the Greeks" (a claim that is patently
false). In order to tell us about Croesus, however, Herodotus feels that
he must trace Croesus' royal line from the beginning, so he immediately
backs up and recounts how Gyges (the first of Croesus' ancestors to rule
Lydia) came to the throne by overthrowing the previous king, Candaules.
He then gives a rapid account of the growth of the Lydian empire
under Gyges' successors, until he again reaches the reign Croesus,
under whom the Lydian empire reaches its peak. (This reflects what
is known as Herodotus' periodic style of composition: his habit of
citing a topic, only to backtrack in a lengthy parenthesis to deal with
the relevant background before getting back to his original subject.) At
the height of his power, Croesus is overthrown by Cyrus. Having dealt
with Cyrus' defeat of Croesus, and having described Lydia and its
people, Herodotus then backs up once again to consider the origin of the
Persian Empire. He begins by giving an account of the rise of the
Median empire from its founder, the shadowy Deioces, through Astyages.
Herodotus then gives a fanciful account of the birth of Cyrus (Astyages'
grandson), who overthrows his grandfather and unites the Medes and
Persians into one great empire. After an account of Persian customs,
Herodotus then jumps back into the "present" (the aftermath of Cyrus'
defeat of Croesus) and deals, in the remainder of Book 1, with the
career of Cyrus until his death in 529. Notice how this approach: (1)
places a good deal of emphasis on the figure of Croesus and his fate;
(2) allows Herodotus to discuss the different empires (Lydian, Median,
and Persian) separately and, in the case of the Lydians and particularly
the Persians, to examine their geography, climate, customs, etc.
If we look at the tradition in which Herodotus is working, we can
perhaps gain a better understanding of some of the curious features of
his Histories. In the 440s, when we can assume that Herodotus began work
on his account, "history" in the modern sense of the term — i.e. an
objective, analytic account of the past that examines an earlier era or
series of events by evaluating a wide range of sources and considering
such things as socio-economic and political factors — did not exist. In
fact the fundamental distinction accepted today between history and myth
— between, e.g., modern studies of 6th-century England and tales of
Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table — was only just emerging. The
poet Pindar (c. 513-438), for example, composing in the first half of
the 5th century does not treat Achilles and Ajax as figures of
make-believe, but as "historical" individuals, about whom there might be
conflicting traditions, but whose existence is taken for granted. As a
rsult, before Herodotus' time "history" was largely the province of
poets such as Homer and Pindar.
In the mid-6th century, however, the practice did arise of recording the
local traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
Their principal concern was the synthesis of disparate local legends
into sustained, coherent accounts, with elaborate genealogies that would
trace the history of important families back to famous mythological
figures. Like so many other elements of classical Greek culture, this
practice first appears in Asia Minor, but it is a far cry from what we
would call history. While the LOGOGRAPHERs did record the local history
of various city-states, they did so in mythological terms. Thus,
although they employed prose, to a certain degree they merely
"translated" the poetic/mythological tradition into a new medium.
(Compare Geoffrey of Monmouth's history of Britain.) For the most part,
the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
historians.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Herodotus and Myth: II
<<Herodotus stands apart from the LOGOGRAPHERs, however, in a
number of ways. He is not at all sympathetic toward HECATAEUS, and
in fact goes out of his way to mock him on more than one occasion.
His rationalizations of myth, in particular, are more cunning
than anything that seems to have appeared in the LOGOGRAPHERs.
Here are five examples for you to consider:
1) The story of Gyges and Candaules. Gyges was a historical figure,
renowned for his wealth. He quickly became a figure of myth, however. In
Plato's Republic his story involves the discovery of a magic ring in a
mysterious ancient tomb. When wearing the ring, Gyges becomes invisible.
He uses this power to seduce Candaules' wife and, with her help, to
assassinate him. Contrast Herodotus' version of Gyges' rise to power.
2) The story of Arion. As Herodotus tells us, Arion was a famous poet
of the 7th century who was said to have invented the *dithyramb, a
choral song and dance (thought by many to be the origin of tragedy) in
honor of the god *Dionysus. Today Dionysus (or Bacchus) is associated
mainly with wine, and his rites (Gk. orgia) with "orgies." In ancient
Greece, however, he was a "vegetation god" associated with the life
force in all living things. Above all, Dionysus was a mysterious god
of communal ecstasy, who dissolved traditional boundaries and led the
individual to lose him/herself in the exultant experience of the god's
power. We know little about the dithyramb in its early form, but are
told that it celebrated the god. It seems reasonable that one of the
stories celebrated in dithyramb would have been a famous tale preserved
for us in the so-called Homeric Hymn to Dionysus and represented on a
famous black figure cup by Exekias (mid-6th century). Compare Herodotus'
story of Arion with the myth of Dionysus presented in the Homeric Hymn.
3) The story of Atys. Herodotus' story of Croesus' son Atys recalls a
famous myth associated with a god who appears in a variety of guises
in the ancient eastern Mediterranean. The myth involves the young male
consort of a mother goddess figure. The young god is born, becomes the
lover of the mother goddess, but then is killed in his prime while
hunting a wild boar, which gores him in the groin. The mother goddess
buries her beloved and mourns him. This story was told in ancient
Sumeria of Inanna and her lover Dumuzi, in Assyria of Ishtar and Tammuz,
and in Greece of Aphrodite (Roman: Venus) and Adonis (cf. the Egyptian
Isis and Osiris). It generally has been interpreted as a vegetation myth
intended to explain the seasons, with the young male consort symbolizing
the coming and passing of summer, although this interpretation has been
challenged. (A similar myth is told in Greece of Demeter and her
daughter Persephone, again with antecedents in the ancient Near East.)
In Asia Minor (and, more particularly, in Croesus' Lydia), a similar
tale was told of the great earth mother Cybele and her lover Attis
(symbolized by a pine tree). Perhaps in commemoration of Attis, Cybele
was served by eunuch priests known as Galli, who initiated themselves
into her cult by castrating themselves with a piece of flint.
Compare Herodotus' story of Atys with the myth of Cybele and Attis.
4) The story of Croesus on the pyre (1.86-87). Like tales of Gyges, this
story too was wide-spread. It is recounted in the following passage from
one of the odes of Bacchylides (dated to 468 B.C.) and may have appeared
in a play depicted on the fragments of a red figure vase dated to c.
460:
Bacchylides: Let one adorn the god with gifts, for in this lies the
best hope of true prosperity (olbos). Once Apollo of the golden sword
saved even the marshal of the horse-taming Lydians, when Zeus fulfilled
the fated judgment and Sardis was taken by the Persian host. Croesus,
having come to that unexpected day, was not about to await the grievous
lot of slavery. In front of his court, with its brazen walls, he had a
pyre built up. There he mounted, with his dear wife and his tearful
daughters with their gorgeous hair. Lifting his hands to the lofty
aether he called out: "Wanton daimon, where is the gratitude of the
gods? Where is the divine lord, Leto's son? The halls of Alyattes are
rushing to ruin. ... Gold-eddying Pactolus is stained red with blood and
— disgrace! — our women are being led off to slavery from our stately
palaces. What before was hateful now is dear: to die is sweetest." So
he spoke, and commanded a delicately-treading servant to set ablaze the
wooden structure. The young women cried out, stretching out their arms
toward their mother, for death that approaches openly is the most
hateful for mortals. But when the blazing force of the dread fire had
quickly spread all around, Zeus sent a dark-shrouding cloud overhead and
quenched the tawny flame: nothing is beyond belief which the care of
the gods contrives. Then Delos-born Apollo conveyed the old man and his
slender-ankled daughters to the land of the blessed Hyperboreans and
settled them there, all on account of Croesus' piety (eusebeia),
because he had sent the greatest gifts to holy Pytho.
5) The birth of Cyrus.
Compare the following myths:
a) The myth of Oedipus.
b) The myth of Alope. Alope, daughter of Cercyon and a girl of
exceeding beauty, was raped by Poseidon. Out of this embrace she bore a
child, which, without her father's knowledge, she gave to her nurse to
expose. When it had been exposed, a mare came and nursed it. A certain
shepherd, in search of the mare, saw the child and took it up. After he
had taken the baby, clad in its royal garments, to his hut, one of his
fellow shepherds asked that he give the baby to him, which the first
shepherd did — but without its regal dress. A dispute fell out between
the two shepherds when the one who had received the baby demanded the
insignia of its birth (i.e. the garment) and the first shepherd refused
to yield them. They sought out King Cercyon and began to argue their
respective cases. The shepherd who had received the child began to
demand back the insignia. When these were brought, however, and Cercyon
recognized them as having been torn from a dress belonging to his
daughter, the nurse (afraid of the king's anger) confessed that the baby
was Alope's. Cercyon ordered that his daughter be shut away and starved
to death, and that the baby be cast out. Once again the mare nursed the
baby, once again shepherds found it and took it up, thinking it to have
survived and been raised by the will of the gods. They gave the child
the name Hippothoos. Theseus, passing by on his way from Troezen, killed
Cercyon. Hippothoos, however, went to Theseus and demanded his ancestral
realms. Theseus gladly granted them to him once he learned that
Hippothoos was the son of Poseidon, whence he traced his own descent.
Moreover, Poseidon transformed the body of Alope into the spring
which today bears her name.
c) The myth of Romulus and Remus. Romulus and Remus are the
mythological founders of Rome. Their mother, Rhea Silvia, was the
daughter of Numitor, king of Alba Longa. Numitor was overthrown by his
evil brother Amulius, who compelled Rhea Silvia to become a Vestal
Virgin to insure that she could never have sons who would grow up and
avenge their grandfather. Rhea Silvia was raped by the god Mars,
however, and had two sons, Romulus and Remus. Amulius ordered the sons
to be exposed on the banks of the river Tiber and so drowned, but the
men given the job of exposing the boys failed to put them close enough
to the water and they survived, being suckled by a she-wolf. They were
taken in by a shepherd and grew up to be noble youths who rid the
countryside of wild beasts and robbers. Remus was captured by robbers
and taken before Amulius as a brigand. The two youths' identity was
revealed, Remus was rescued by Romulus, and Numitor was restored to the
throne of Alba Longa. Romulus and Remus then leave to found their own
city, Rome.
d) The myth of Atreus and Thyestes. Atreus was king of Mycenae. His
brother, Thyestes, managed to steal the throne by seducing Atreus' wife
and gaining access to the magic ram that was the source of Atreus'
kingly authority. Atreus regained the throne and pretended to forgive
his brother. He invited Thyestes to a banquet. Once the banquet was
over, Atreus had a covered platter brought in; when the cover was
lifted, the heads of Thyestes' children were revealed and Atreus
announced that Thyestes had been feasting on the flesh of his own
children. One son of Thyestes survived and later took revenge
by killing Atreus' son Agamemnon.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Poul Chowdley
Neuendorffer wrote in message <3CED1728...@erols.com>...
In fact, these conventions can be viewed as chains upon physis,
>arbitrarily limiting the individual's scope of action.>>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Art Neuendorffer
Art, I want to thank you for your many efforts on behalf
of the Oxfordian cause. Between your posts and my posts,
the world can at last understand Oxfordian scholarship's
true nature and content.
---Poul Chowdley
Neuendorffer
> > > > Then I take it that you have no problem with:
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > TOUS-PHANTOM
> > > > SOUT-HAMPTON
> > > > "UNG par TOUS, TOUS par UNG" => Southampton Motto
> > > > ONE for ALL , ALL for ONE.
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > No, Art; "tous" is not English, and "phantom" is not French (the
> > > word is "fantôme"). Mongrel anagrams of this sort are as ludicrous
> > > as "Agnes Boga."
>
> > As "VERO" is shorthand for Oxford
> > "TOUS" is shorthand for Southampton
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> If frogs had wings, they could fly. "Vero" is *not* shorthand for
> Oxford (or at any rate, there is certainly no evidence to that effect),
> and "tous" is *not* shorthand for Southampton.
-------------------------------------------------------
"VERO" is shorthand for Oxford
EVIL
"TOUS" is shorthand for Southampton
GLFH
--------------------------------------------------------------------
GLyFH carving (Gr.)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
GLYPH, n. [Gr. glyfh` carving, fr. gly`fein to carve: cf. F. glyphe.]
1 : an ornamental vertical groove especially in a Doric frieze
2 : a symbolic figure or a character (as in the Mayan system of
writing)
usually incised or carved in relief
3 : a symbol that conveys information nonverbally
-------------------------------------------------------
Notable Egyptian Gods - Shawn C. Knight
Maat: Considered the wife of Thoth and the daughter of Ra by various
traditions, Maat's name implies "truth" and "justice" and even "cosmic
order". She is an anthropomorphic personification of the concept maat
and as such has little mythology. Maat was represented as a tall woman
with an ostrich feather (the GLYPH for her name) in her hair. She was
present at the judgement of the dead; her feather was balanced against
the heart of the deceased to determine whether he had led a pure and
honest life.
-------------------------------------------------------
Wicca - Book of Shadows
The witches' pyramid is a GLYPH which symbolizes the mentality
necessary for the directed manifestation of magical energy.
The GLYPH in Fig. 2 is the basis for the Tree of Life. The first
principle of consciousness is called Kether, which means Crown.
The raw energy of consciousness is called Chockhmah or Wisdom,
and the capacity to give form to the energy of consciousness is
called Binah, which is sometimes translated as Understanding,
and sometimes as Intelligence. The outcome of the interaction of
force and form, the physical world, called Malkuth or Kingdom.
This quaternery is a Cabalistic representation of God-the-
Knowable, in the sense that it the most primitive representation
of God we are capable of comprehending; paradoxically, Kabbalah
also contains a notion of God-the-Unknowable which transcends
this GLYPH, and is called En Soph. There is not much I can say
about En Soph, and what I can say I will postpone for later.
God-the-Knowable has four aspects, two male and two female:
Kether and Chokhmah are both represented as male, and Binah and
Malkuth are represented as female. One of the titles of Chokhmah
is Abba, which means Father, and one of the titles of Binah
is Aima, which means Mother, so you can think of Chokhmah as
God-the-Father, and Binah as God-the-Mother. Malkuth is the
daughter, the female spirit of God-as-Matter, and it would not be
wildly wrong to think of her as Mother Earth. One of the more
pleasant things about Kabbalah is that its symbolism gives
equal place to both male and female.
And what of God-the-Son? Is there also a God-the-Son in
Kabbalah? There is, and this is the point where Kabbalah tackles
the interesting problem of thee and me. The GLYPH in Fig. 2 is a
model of consciousness, but not of self-consciousness, and self-
consciousness throws an interesting spanner in the works.
Anthra Andromda
The number is a very interesting one indeed. Originally suggested by
David Cherubim, in connection with the "true" meaning of the initials
A.`. A.'.. At first glance there doesn't seem to be much there...BUT!
451 = 4 + 5 + 1 = 10 = 1.
A GLYPH of the cycle. The monad starting its trek through experience
in the infinite body of Nuith and returning to this supreme Unity.
451 = ATh HADM. The essence of Man. Also Ath ADMH (a Temurah), The
essence of the attained Man.
ADMH also means "Red Earth" in the traditional sense. However, there
is a rather 'new' qabalistic operation at work here, that of fusing or
synthesis. That of two words joining to make a new one (or an old one)
with a new meaning. Here we have 'ADM' and 'MH'. Both words add to 45,
which may be a key to the way things are working here. ADM, Man and
MH, Yetzirah. In this case we have man identified with Yetzirah to
which he aspires. Crowley says of this number, "Thus 45 baffles the
accuser, but only by affirmation of progress. It cannot help that
progress."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CED1728...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.comedy) wrote:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Neuendorffer wrote (David L. Webb):
>
> > > > You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>
> > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout in
Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare? For instance,
see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
<http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
> > > To suggest that Herodotus
> > > had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> > Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
...and as I noted it's just as moronic to suggest that they had
anything to do with writing the Shakespeare canon.
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Well, . . .on average, atleast. :-)
I know, Art -- in your unassailable ignorance you were evidently
unaware that Herodotus predated Virgil! That's an even more comic
chronological gaffe than Stephanie's Caxton blunder, or your own
risible reference to Aleksandr Nevskii as "tsar"!
> http://dev(i)lab.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/27.html
>
> <<Later Greeks dated the Trojan War as follows:
>
> 1184 B.C. (Eratosthenes),
> 1209/8 B.C. (the Parian Marble),
> ca. 1250 B.C. (Herodotus),
> and 1334/3 B.C. (Douris).>>
>
> Nestor: c. 1250 BC {ca. 1250 B.C.}
> Socrates: c. 430 BC {469 BC - 399 BC}
> Virgil c. 30 BC {Oct. 15, 70 BC
> ----------- - Sept. 21, 19 BC}
> average: c. 570 BC
>
> Herodotus c. 444 BC
Are you under the impression that Nestor was a real person, Art?
Incidentally, Art, have you pondered the significance of the fact that
if you multiply 444 by 3/2 you obtain 666, the Number of the Beast?
[...]
> http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
>
> <<Dugdale transcribed both the Latin and English verses from
> Shakespeare's tomb, along with the verse from the gravestone.
> Except for minor spelling differences (entirely typical of Dugdale),
> these verses are the same as those seen today. The Latin reads:
>
> Ivdicio Pylivm, genio Socratem, arte Maronem,
I've already explained this to you, Art -- it's a typo. It should
read "Art -- Moronem."
[...]
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
>
> <<In 1631, a year before his death, John Weever
But Art -- "Iohn Weever" is an anagram of "I, Vere -- Wen Ho."
Since you profess to repose such confidence in the Idiotic Neuendorffer
Proper Name Criterion, note that the INPNC score of this anagram is
9/10, or 90%. Does this suggest that one should suspect Oxford of
espionage, Art?
[...]
> Dwebb wrote:
>
> > > To suggest that Herodotus had anything to do
> > > with the writing of the Shakespeare canon is of course moronic,
> > > since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only limns
> > > starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
> http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
>
> <<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
> traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
> accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
What about Logorrheographers such as yourself, Art?
[...]
> For the most part,
> the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
> collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
> historians.>>
That describes you perfectly, Art!
[...]
> In any case, you want to be careful when reading Herodotus: like
> Chaucer, he presents us with a narrator who at times seems incredibly
> naive, even absurd, but there is evidence that, like Chaucer, a cunning
> intelligence lies beneath that humble facade.>>
Again, this describes your Clueless Cretin h.l.a.s. persona
perfectly, Art!
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
> http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
>
> <<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
> traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
> accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
> Their principal concern was the synthesis of disparate local legends
> into sustained, coherent accounts, with elaborate genealogies that would
> trace the history of important families back to famous mythological
> figures. Like so many other elements of classical Greek culture, this
> practice first appears in Asia Minor, but it is a far cry from what we
> would call history. While the LOGOGRAPHERs did record the local history
> of various city-states, they did so in mythological terms. Thus,
> although they employed prose, to a certain degree they merely
> "translated" the poetic/mythological tradition into a new medium.
> (Compare Geoffrey of Monmouth's history of Britain.) For the most part,
> the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
> collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
> historians.>>
You just quoted this paragraph above, Art -- are you getting senile?
Or are you reVERting to a parody of Richard Kennedy?
[...]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> SEGUII TE, SHACESPEARE [It.]
> I FOLLOWED YOU, SHACESPEARE
The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> TUO SHACESPEARE DIO [It.]
> YOUR SHACESPEARE GOD
The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> TU SHACESPEARE ODIO [Sp.]
> YOUR SHACESPEARE HATRED
The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Spanish, Art, nor in any
ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> TI ESEGUI SHACESPEARE [It.]
> YOU EXECUTE SHACESPEARE
The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
ancient or modern tongue known to me.
Is this *really* the best you can do?!
[...]
David Webb
lyra
> lyra wrote:
>
> > (from Hamlet...
> > http://chemicool.com/Shakespeare/hamlet/full.html
> > is the whole play on one page, and most useful for
> > searching, as one can (on Internet Explorer)
> > click "Edit", then on "Find (on This Page)"
> > to find any word or speech...)
> >
> > perchance to dream
> >
> > anagrams
> >
> > not "peach", reader?? ...C.M.
> > oh reader! C.M. pen Act
> > C.M. ... not cheap, reader??
> > (cheap at the price!)
> > actor read......pen? C.M., he
> > act, or read..."C.M."...pen, he
> > crepe on hat? read C.M.
> > RC made crepe on hat?
> > O a pretence! hard, CM?
> >
> > * * * * * *
>
> The appearance of the initials "C.M." is, to put it quite mildly,
> unpersuasive -- one can take virtually *any* text of reasonable length
> containing the letters "C" and "M" and produce multiple random and
> utterly meaningless anagrams.
> In any case, you missed a few anagrams. For example, there's
>
> "Note: Heed C. Mar. crap."
>
> > to sleep: perchance to dream
> >
> > anagrams
> >
> > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
>
> You're still missing a few. For example,
>
> "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
>
> This one pointedly *denies* Marlowe's authorship, and suggests John
> Dee's involvement.
It shows Dee's own ideas maybe! why should he have known
anything though...
I like "preceptor...he'd a mace stolen"
"preceptor...he came and stole!"
"ale...and the preceptor's come!"
"the preceptor...come and seal..."
"con?? the preceptor made seal"
well it makes interesting mind-pictures anyway!
>
> Finally, there are other serious problems with this approach. One
> is that the text you anagrammed does not appear at all in the First
> Quarto, and in the Second Quarto and First Folio it reads "To sleepe,
> perchance to dreame...." Since every letter is crucial in an anagram,
> it seems rather foolish to seek revelatory anagrams using a text whose
> spelling is a modernization of the original.
>
"note plot! a C.M. speeche, readere"
"speeche, readere? C.M. to pen a lot"
well, at least it's fun!
lyra
lyra
> lyra
> wrote:
>
> >
> > <with snips>
> >
> > perchance to dream
> >
> > anagrams
> >
> > O a pretence! hard, CM?
> >
> > * * * * * *
> >
> >
> > anagrams
> >
> > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
I also like...
"O! can pose the Templar creed!"
(i.e. put it forward to others)
* * * * * *
"can compose...peer had letter"
"Oscan poem, C. ...peer had letter"
"o scan poem! <or, "O! poem, scan!">
peer...had letter *C.* "
"peer...the poem conceals dart!"
(sounds dangerous!)
lyra
> You're still missing a few. For example,
>
> "Dee precept: He's not C. Marlo."
> <with snips>
lyra
> "David L. Webb" <David....@Dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> > lyra wrote:
> >
> > > (from Hamlet...)
> > > perchance to dream
> > >
> > > anagrams
<snipped>
> > > * * * * * *
>
> > In any case, you missed a few anagrams.
> >
> > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > >
> > > anagrams
> > >
> > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
> >
> > You're still missing a few.
<snips>
>
> I like
> "ale...and the preceptor's come!"
> "the preceptor...come and seal..."
> "con?? the preceptor made seal"
>
> well it makes interesting mind-pictures anyway!
and, "The Preceptor made *C* on seal"
(that one reminds me of
"As You Like It"
anagrams "I seal you *Kit*")
(http://www.geocities.com/sunspirit19/plays_poetry_sonnets_marlowe_shakespeare.html)
> well, at least it's fun!
lyra
p.s.
also from the above URL, I include these just because I like them!
"we are such stuff as dreams are made on......"
Awed? as for name...see "Dr. Faustus"...hear *C.M.*!
* * * * * *
"and our little life is rounded with a sleep"
In Stratford lie? a dull end! "O LIE !"
...thus I weep!
In Stratford sleep?? dull end? A white lie! ...*I.O.U.*!
In ale-house diest? In Deptford
*laurel* wilt??
* * * * * *
"Hamlet, Prince of Denmark"
Think real ? pen of C.M. dream !
Pyramus
A rum spy!
Pyramus and Thisby {Thisbe}
And this by a "rum spy" ?!
{and this be a "rum spy"?}
lyra
> > lyra wrote:
> >
> > > (from Hamlet...)
> > > * * * * * *
> >
<with several snips>
> >
> > In any case, you missed a few anagrams.
> >
> > > to sleep: perchance to dream
> > >
> > > anagrams
> > >
> > > note plot! a C.M. speech, reader
> > > speech, reader? C.M. to pen a lot...
> >
> > You're still missing a few.
>
> well it makes interesting mind-pictures anyway!
I forgot to include the two following...
(from the same URL)
"A Midsummer Night's Dream"
Mad night! a murder?! miss me??
* * * * * *
"The Tragedy of Hamlet, Prince of Denmark"
At Deptford inn, ye charge K.M. for the meal ???
At Deptford inn, thy meal free? O charge *K.M.* !?
a moment of great importance to all Marlowe fans!
Neuendorffer
> > > > Neuendorffer wrote (David L. Webb):
> >
> > > > > You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
>
> > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
>
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> >
> > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout in
> Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare? For instance,
> see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
Who knows, maybe, it's a real name. Maybe Shakespeare was a real name.
I'm simply pointing out why Droeshout was used for the Folio.
> > > > To suggest that Herodotus
> > > > had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > > > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > > > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
>
> > > Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
>
> ...and as I noted it's just as moronic to suggest that they had
> anything to do with writing the Shakespeare canon.
It's that silly Stratford moniment which suggests it.
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Well, . . .on average, atleast. :-)
>
> I know, Art -- in your unassailable ignorance you were evidently
> unaware that Herodotus predated Virgil!
You had your opportunity to point this out earlier, Dave, and you
blew your opportunity. Apparently, you were unaware that Herodotus
predated Virgil until I pointed it out.
> That's an even more comic
> chronological gaffe than Stephanie's Caxton blunder, or your own
> risible reference to Aleksandr Nevskii as "tsar"!
That's why every time you point out Stephanie's Caxton blunder we can
bring up your Herodotus blunder.
> > http://dev(i)lab.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/27.html
> >
> > <<Later Greeks dated the Trojan War as follows:
> >
> > 1184 B.C. (Eratosthenes),
> > 1209/8 B.C. (the Parian Marble),
> > ca. 1250 B.C. (Herodotus),
> > and 1334/3 B.C. (Douris).>>
> >
> > Nestor: c. 1250 BC {ca. 1250 B.C.}
> > Socrates: c. 430 BC {469 BC - 399 BC}
> > Virgil c. 30 BC {Oct. 15, 70 BC
> > ----------- - Sept. 21, 19 BC}
> > average: c. 570 BC
> >
> > Herodotus c. 444 BC
>
> Are you under the impression that Nestor was a real person, Art?
No more so than those who pur up the Stratford moniment.
> Incidentally, Art, have you pondered the significance of the fact that
> if you multiply 444 by 3/2 you obtain 666, the Number of the Beast?
You mean Terry or HENRY?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Terry Ross wrote:
> There's a 1 in 444 chance of finding a HENRY in some array,
> but doing so eliminates the possibility of finding WRIOTHESLEY
> in that array.(remember, there is only one Y in the dedication).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
FW page 444: And lest there be no misconception,
Miss Forstowelsy, over who to fasten the plight-
forlifer on (threehundred and thirty three to one
on Rue the Day!)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> >
> > <<Dugdale transcribed both the Latin and English verses from
> > Shakespeare's tomb, along with the verse from the gravestone.
> > Except for minor spelling differences (entirely typical of Dugdale),
> > these verses are the same as those seen today. The Latin reads:
> >
> > Ivdicio Pylivm, genio Socratem, arte Maronem,
>
> I've already explained this to you, Art -- it's a typo.
> It should read "Art -- Moronem."
Should it also read genio Sophocles?
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> >
> > <<In 1631, a year before his death, John Weever
>
> But Art -- "Iohn Weever" is an anagram of "I, Vere -- Wen Ho."
> Since you profess to repose such confidence in the Idiotic Neuendorffer
> Proper Name Criterion, note that the INPNC score of this anagram is
> 9/10, or 90%. Does this suggest that one should suspect Oxford of
> espionage, Art?
Wen was innocent, Dave; hadn't you heard.
> > Dwebb wrote:
> >
> > > > To suggest that Herodotus had anything to do
> > > > with the writing of the Shakespeare canon is of course moronic,
> > > > since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only limns
> > > > starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
> > http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
> >
> > <<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
> > traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
> > accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
>
> What about Logorrheographers such as yourself, Art?
I'm a MAGOGRAPHER, Dave.
> > For the most part,
> > the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
> > collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
> > historians.>>
>
> That describes you perfectly, Art!
The local legend that interests most is the illiterate Stratford
boob.
> > In any case, you want to be careful when reading Herodotus: like
> > Chaucer, he presents us with a narrator who at times seems incredibly
> > naive, even absurd, but there is evidence that, like Chaucer, a cunning
> > intelligence lies beneath that humble facade.>>
>
> this describes your Clueless Cretin h.l.a.s. persona perfectly, Art!
A very cunning intelligence.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Moby Dick - Melville
I am convinced that from the heads of all ponderous profound beings,
such as Plato, Pyrrho, the Devil, Jupiter, Dante, and so on, there
always goes up a certain semi-visible steam, while in the act of
thinking deep thoughts.
If then, Sir William Jones, who read in thirty
languages, could not read the simplest peasant's face in its
profounder and more subtle meanings, how may unlettered Ishmael hope
to read the awful Chaldee of the Sperm Whale's brow? I but put that
brow before you. Read it if you can.
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> > SEGUII TE, SHACESPEARE [It.]
> > I FOLLOWED YOU, SHACESPEARE
>
> The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> ancient or modern tongue known to me.
Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
> > HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> > TUO SHACESPEARE DIO [It.]
> > YOUR SHACESPEARE GOD
>
> The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> ancient or modern tongue known to me.
Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
> > HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> > TU SHACESPEARE ODIO [Sp.]
> > YOUR SHACESPEARE HATRED
>
> The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Spanish, Art, nor in any
> ancient or modern tongue known to me.
>
> > HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> > TI ESEGUI SHACESPEARE [It.]
> > YOU EXECUTE SHACESPEARE
>
> The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> ancient or modern tongue known to me.
Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
> Is this *really* the best you can do?!
It's not bad.
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CF2E261...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
wrote:
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Neuendorffer wrote (David L. Webb):
> > >
> > > > > > You hardly ever provide a high INPNC.
> >
> > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > >
> > > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > >
> > > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout in
> > Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare? For instance,
> > see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> > <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
> Who knows, maybe, it's a real name.
It *is* a real name, Art, and it is in use in Belgium today.
> Maybe Shakespeare was a real name.
It *is* a real name, Art. In fact, it's also a reel name:
<http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/antiques/how.shtml>.
> I'm simply pointing out why Droeshout was used for the Folio.
No, Droeshout was the name of an engraVER whose work appears in the
Folio, and elsewhere as well.
> > > > > To suggest that Herodotus
> > > > > had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > > > > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > > > > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> > > > Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
> > ...and as I noted it's just as moronic to suggest that they had
> > anything to do with writing the Shakespeare canon.
> It's that silly Stratford moniment which suggests it.
No, Art; can't you read Latin?
> > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Well, . . .on average, atleast. :-)
> > I know, Art -- in your unassailable ignorance you were evidently
> > unaware that Herodotus predated Virgil!
> You had your opportunity to point this out earlier, Dave, and you
> blew your opportunity.
I certainly don't attempt to point out *all* of your hilarious
blunders, Art -- as I've said before, doing so would be like cleansing
the Augean stables with a toothbrush. EVERybody -- except you, of
course, Art -- knows that Virgil wrote in Latin during the decline of
the Roman republic and the rise of Imperial Rome, and that his main
epic is the literary landmark of the Augustan Age. EVERybody -- except
you, of course, Art -- knows that that Herodotus is believed to have
been in Athens during the Peloponnesian War. Even if you know *none*
of the history of Greco-Roman antiquity (which you clearly do not), one
would at least expect you to be aware that the Peloponnesian War
predates Imperial Rome by over three centuries! One need not even know
*that* -- one need only know that the "Greco" in "Greco-Roman" precedes
the "Roman" chronologically. Your Caruanaian chronological gaffe,
while farcical (it's about on a par with your use of the term "tsar"
for Aleksandr Nevskii), is irrelevant, since *none* of Herodotus,
Virgil, or Socrates survived late enough to have had a role in the
writing of the Shakespeare canon. But I wouldn't expect you to find
this subtle point comprehensible without some thought.
> Apparently, you were unaware that Herodotus
> predated Virgil until I pointed it out.
No, you're wrong, Art; *eVERy* sentient being is aware of that.
Your comic confusion is comparable to dating John F. Kennedy to the
Restoration period.
> > That's an even more comic
> > chronological gaffe than Stephanie's Caxton blunder, or your own
> > risible reference to Aleksandr Nevskii as "tsar"!
> That's why every time you point out Stephanie's Caxton blunder we can
> bring up your Herodotus blunder.
It's *your* blunder, Art, not mine -- indeed, while I wish that I
could claim credit, it's far more hilarious than anything I could
devise.
> > > http://dev(i)lab.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/27.html
> > >
> > > <<Later Greeks dated the Trojan War as follows:
> > >
> > > 1184 B.C. (Eratosthenes),
> > > 1209/8 B.C. (the Parian Marble),
> > > ca. 1250 B.C. (Herodotus),
> > > and 1334/3 B.C. (Douris).>>
> > >
> > > Nestor: c. 1250 BC {ca. 1250 B.C.}
> > > Socrates: c. 430 BC {469 BC - 399 BC}
> > > Virgil c. 30 BC {Oct. 15, 70 BC
> > > ----------- - Sept. 21, 19 BC}
> > > average: c. 570 BC
> > >
> > > Herodotus c. 444 BC
> > Are you under the impression that Nestor was a real person, Art?
> No more so than those who pur [sic] up the Stratford moniment.
If real people did not erect the Stratford monument, Art, then
according to you, who did? Space aliens? Nephilim?
[...]
> > > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> > >
> > > <<Dugdale transcribed both the Latin and English verses from
> > > Shakespeare's tomb, along with the verse from the gravestone.
> > > Except for minor spelling differences (entirely typical of Dugdale),
> > > these verses are the same as those seen today. The Latin reads:
> > >
> > > Ivdicio Pylivm, genio Socratem, arte Maronem,
> > I've already explained this to you, Art -- it's a typo.
> > It should read "Art -- Moronem."
> Should it also read genio Sophocles?
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> > >
> > > <<In 1631, a year before his death, John Weever
> > But Art -- "Iohn Weever" is an anagram of "I, Vere -- Wen Ho."
> > Since you profess to repose such confidence in the Idiotic Neuendorffer
> > Proper Name Criterion, note that the INPNC score of this anagram is
> > 9/10, or 90%. Does this suggest that one should suspect Oxford of
> > espionage, Art?
> Wen was innocent, Dave; hadn't you heard.
But he was certainly *suspected*, which was all I suggested. Can't
you read, Art?
> > > Dwebb wrote:
> > >
> > > > > To suggest that Herodotus had anything to do
> > > > > with the writing of the Shakespeare canon is of course moronic,
> > > > > since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only limns
> > > > > starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> > > Herodotus' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
> > > http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
> > >
> > > <<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
> > > traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
> > > accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
> > What about Logorrheographers such as yourself, Art?
> I'm a MAGOGRAPHER, Dave.
> > > For the most part,
> > > the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
> > > collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
> > > historians.>>
> > That describes you perfectly, Art!
> The local legend that interests most is the illiterate Stratford
> boob.
There is no legend that he was either illiterate or a boob, except
among the more deluded anti-Stratfordians, some of whom are
demonstrably illiterate themselves. Besides, the illiterate NOAA boob
is more entertaining, and also legendary -- in the sense of celebrated,
not in the sense of apocryphal.
> > > In any case, you want to be careful when reading Herodotus: like
> > > Chaucer, he presents us with a narrator who at times seems incredibly
> > > naive, even absurd, but there is evidence that, like Chaucer, a cunning
> > > intelligence lies beneath that humble facade.>>
> > this describes your Clueless Cretin h.l.a.s. persona perfectly, Art!
> A very cunning intelligence.
A VERy funning intelligence.
[...]
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> > > SEGUII TE, SHACESPEARE [It.]
> > > I FOLLOWED YOU, SHACESPEARE
> > The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> > ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
On the contrary --Stratfordians note, quite correctly, that
Elizabethan spelling was not standardized, so the momentous
significance Oxfordians haplessly attempt to ascribe to variant
spellings of the name "Shakespeare" are even less sensible than
suspecting an authorship imposture because "Chaikovskii" is sometimes
spelled, "Tchaikovsky," "Tchaikovskii," "Tschaikowsky," etc. HoweVER,
a spelling of the name "Shakespeare" that is unattested elsewhere would
be of some interest.
> > > HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> > > TUO SHACESPEARE DIO [It.]
> > > YOUR SHACESPEARE GOD
> > The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> > ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
On the contrary --Stratfordians note, quite correctly, that
Elizabethan spelling was not standardized, so the momentous
significance Oxfordians haplessly attempt to ascribe to variant
spellings of the name "Shakespeare" are even less sensible than
suspecting an authorship imposture because "Chaikovskii" is sometimes
spelled, "Tchaikovsky," "Tchaikovskii," "Tschaikowsky," etc. HoweVER,
a spelling of the name "Shakespeare" that is unattested elsewhere would
be of some interest.
> > > HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> > > TU SHACESPEARE ODIO [Sp.]
> > > YOUR SHACESPEARE HATRED
> > The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Spanish, Art, nor in any
> > ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> > > HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> > > TI ESEGUI SHACESPEARE [It.]
> > > YOU EXECUTE SHACESPEARE
> > The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> > ancient or modern tongue known to me.
> Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
On the contrary --Stratfordians note, quite correctly, that
Elizabethan spelling was not standardized, so the momentous
significance Oxfordians haplessly attempt to ascribe to variant
spellings of the name "Shakespeare" are even less sensible than
suspecting an authorship imposture because "Chaikovskii" is sometimes
spelled, "Tchaikovsky," "Tchaikovskii," "Tschaikowsky," etc. HoweVER,
a spelling of the name "Shakespeare" that is unattested elsewhere would
be of some interest.
> > Is this *really* the best you can do?!
> It's not bad.
It's risible -- even for someone convincingly impersonating a
Clueless Cretin.
David Webb
Neuendorffer
> > > >
> > > > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
>
> > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout in
> > > Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare? For instance,
> > > see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> > > <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
HERODOTUS' Relationship to Contemporary "Historians"
http://www.usask.ca/antharch/cnea/CourseNotes/HdtNotes.html
<<In the mid-6th century the practice did arise of recording the local
traditions of individual city-states in prose. The writers of such
accounts were known as *LOGOGRAPHERs ("recorders of stories/legends").
Their principal concern was the synthesis of disparate
local legends into sustained, coherent accounts,
with elaborate genealogies that would trace the history
of important families back to famous mythological figures.>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
>
> > Who knows, maybe, it's a real name.
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> It *is* a real name, Art, and it is in use in Belgium today.
I don't care!
> > Maybe Shakespeare was a real name.
>
> It *is* a real name, Art. In fact, it's also a reel name:
>
> <http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/antiques/how.shtml>.
I don't care!
> > I'm simply pointing out why Droeshout was used for the Folio.
>
> No, Droeshout was the name of an engraVER whose work
> appears in the Folio, and elsewhere as well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
ALL Coincidence?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > To suggest that Herodotus
> > > > > > had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > > > > > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > > > > > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
>
> > > > > Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
>
> > > ...and as I noted it's just as moronic to suggest that they had
> > > anything to do with writing the Shakespeare canon.
>
> > It's that silly Stratford moniment which suggests it.
>
> No, Art; can't you read Latin?
The Stratford moniment suggests that:
1) Shakespeare's judgement is like Nestor's
2) Shakespeare's genius is like Socrates'
3) Shakespeare's art is like Virgil's
To suggest that the Droeshout reference was intended to include
Herodotus into the mix is hardly any more far fetched. To suggest that
all four provide a clue as to Shakespeare's true identity is simply an
attempt to "READ IF YOU CANST" as the moniment asks.
> > > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Well, . . .on average, atleast. :-)
>
> > > I know, Art -- in your unassailable ignorance you were evidently
> > > unaware that Herodotus predated Virgil!
>
> > You had your opportunity to point this out earlier, Dave, and you
> > blew your opportunity.
>
> I certainly don't attempt to point out *all* of your hilarious
> blunders, Art -- as I've said before, doing so would be like cleansing
> the Augean stables with a toothbrush. EVERybody -- except you, of
> course, Art -- knows that Virgil wrote in Latin during the decline of
> the Roman republic and the rise of Imperial Rome, and that his main
> epic is the literary landmark of the Augustan Age. EVERybody -- except
> you, of course, Art -- knows that that Herodotus is believed to have
> been in Athens during the Peloponnesian War.
You didn't have A CLUE WHEN HERODOTUS lived (at least, off the top
of your head); otherwise, you would have jumped all over me immediately.
You blew it and you know it.
> Even if you know *none*
> of the history of Greco-Roman antiquity (which you clearly do not), one
> would at least expect you to be aware that the Peloponnesian War
> predates Imperial Rome by over three centuries! One need not even know
> *that* -- one need only know that the "Greco" in "Greco-Roman" precedes
> the "Roman" chronologically. Your Caruanaian chronological gaffe,
> while farcical (it's about on a par with your use of the term "tsar"
> for Aleksandr Nevskii), is irrelevant, since *none* of Herodotus,
> Virgil, or Socrates survived late enough to have had a role in the
> writing of the Shakespeare canon. But I wouldn't expect you to find
> this subtle point comprehensible without some thought.
It's your Caruanaian chronological gaffe as well, Dave.
And nobody ever said that Nestor, Herodotus, Virgil, or Socrates
wrote Shakespeare; just that Nestor, Herodotus, Virgil, & Socrates
provide clues as to who wrote Shakespeare.
> > Apparently, you were unaware that Herodotus
> > predated Virgil until I pointed it out.
>
> No, you're wrong, Art; *eVERy* sentient being is aware of that.
I guess you're not a sentient being.
> Your comic confusion is comparable to dating John F. Kennedy to the
> Restoration period.
*Your* comic confusion is comparable to dating John F. Kennedy to the
Restoration period. *Your* comic egotism prevents you from admitting
your blunder.
> > > That's an even more comic
> > > chronological gaffe than Stephanie's Caxton blunder, or your own
> > > risible reference to Aleksandr Nevskii as "tsar"!
>
> > That's why every time you point out Stephanie's Caxton blunder we can
> > bring up your Herodotus blunder.
>
> It's *your* blunder, Art, not mine -- indeed, while I wish that I
> could claim credit, it's far more hilarious than anything I could
> devise.
It's my blunder, Art, for posting it without giving it sufficient
thought or bothering to look it up.
It's your blunder, Art, for letting it pass without giving it
sufficient thought or bothering to look it up.
At least it bothered me enough to go back, admit to, and correct my
mistake.
> > > > http://dev(i)lab.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/27.html
> > > >
> > > > <<Later Greeks dated the Trojan War as follows:
> > > >
> > > > 1184 B.C. (Eratosthenes),
> > > > 1209/8 B.C. (the Parian Marble),
> > > > ca. 1250 B.C. (Herodotus),
> > > > and 1334/3 B.C. (Douris).>>
> > > >
> > > > Nestor: c. 1250 BC {ca. 1250 B.C.}
> > > > Socrates: c. 430 BC {469 BC - 399 BC}
> > > > Virgil c. 30 BC {Oct. 15, 70 BC
> > > > ----------- - Sept. 21, 19 BC}
> > > > average: c. 570 BC
> > > >
> > > > Herodotus c. 444 BC
>
> > > Are you under the impression that Nestor was a real person, Art?
>
> > No more so than those who pur [sic] up the Stratford moniment.
>
> If real people did not erect the Stratford monument, Art, then
> according to you, who did? Space aliens? Nephilim?
Real people (masons, in fact) put up the Stratford moniment.
> > > > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> > > >
> > > > <<Dugdale transcribed both the Latin and English verses from
> > > > Shakespeare's tomb, along with the verse from the gravestone.
> > > > Except for minor spelling differences (entirely typical of Dugdale),
> > > > these verses are the same as those seen today. The Latin reads:
> > > >
> > > > Ivdicio Pylivm, genio Socratem, arte Maronem,
>
> > > I've already explained this to you, Art -- it's a typo.
> > > It should read "Art -- Moronem."
>
> > Should it also read genio Sophocles?
(1) that an ancient tradition held that Herodotus was
a friend of Sophocles, the famous tragic playwright;
(2) that Herodotus and Sophocles sound similar themes in their works.
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> > > >
> > > > <<In 1631, a year before his death, John Weever
>
> > > But Art -- "Iohn Weever" is an anagram of "I, Vere -- Wen Ho."
> > > Since you profess to repose such confidence in the Idiotic Neuendorffer
> > > Proper Name Criterion, note that the INPNC score of this anagram is
> > > 9/10, or 90%. Does this suggest that one should suspect Oxford of
> > > espionage, Art?
>
> > Wen was innocent, Dave; hadn't you heard.
>
> But he was certainly *suspected*, which was all I suggested. Can't
> you read, Art?
If Wen was innocent then why should one suspect Oxford?
> > > > For the most part,
> > > > the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
> > > > collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
> > > > historians.>>
>
> > > That describes you perfectly, Art!
>
> > The local legend that interests most is the illiterate Stratford
> > boob.
>
> There is no legend that he was either illiterate or a boob,
It's the oldest legend in the book.
> except among the more deluded anti-Stratfordians, some of whom are
> demonstrably illiterate themselves. Besides, the illiterate NOAA boob
> is more entertaining, and also legendary -- in the sense of celebrated,
> not in the sense of apocryphal.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Celebrate, v. t. [L. celebratus, p. p. of celebrare to frequent, to
celebrate, fr. celeber famous.] 1. To extol or honor in a solemn manner;
as, to celebrate the name of the Most High.
2. To honor by solemn rites, by ceremonies of joy and respect, or by
refraining from ordinary business; to observe duly; to keep; as, to
celebrate a birthday.
3. To perform or participate in, as a sacrament or solemn rite; to
solemnize; to perform with appropriate rites; as, to celebrate a
marriage.
------------------------------------------------------
> > > > In any case, you want to be careful when reading Herodotus: like
> > > > Chaucer, he presents us with a narrator who at times seems incredibly
> > > > naive, even absurd, but there is evidence that, like Chaucer, a cunning
> > > > intelligence lies beneath that humble facade.>>
>
> > > this describes your Clueless Cretin h.l.a.s. persona perfectly, Art!
>
> > A very cunning intelligence.
>
> A VERy funning intelligence.
> A VERy punning intelligence.
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> > > > SEGUII TE, SHACESPEARE [It.]
> > > > I FOLLOWED YOU, SHACESPEARE
> > > > HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> > > > TUO SHACESPEARE DIO [It.]
> > > > YOUR SHACESPEARE GOD
>
> > > > HECATAEUS' PERIODOS
> > > > TU SHACESPEARE ODIO [Sp.]
> > > > YOUR SHACESPEARE HATRED
>
> > > The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Spanish, Art, nor in any
> > > ancient or modern tongue known to me.
>
> > > > HECATAEUS' PERIEGESIS
> > > > TI ESEGUI SHACESPEARE [It.]
> > > > YOU EXECUTE SHACESPEARE
>
> > > The name is not spelled "Shacespeare" in Italian, Art, nor in any
> > > ancient or modern tongue known to me.
>
> > Stratfordians pay no attention to the spelling.
>
> On the contrary --Stratfordians note, quite correctly, that
> Elizabethan spelling was not standardized, so the momentous
> significance Oxfordians haplessly attempt to ascribe to variant
> spellings of the name "Shakespeare" are even less sensible than
> suspecting an authorship imposture because "Chaikovskii" is sometimes
> spelled, "Tchaikovsky," "Tchaikovskii," "Tschaikowsky," etc.
You mean that bisexual composer who had to hide his sexual orientation?
> > > Is this *really* the best you can do?!
>
> > It's not bad.
>
> It's risible -- even for someone convincingly impersonating a
> Clueless Cretin.
People who constantly use the term 'risible' in the 21st century are
rather amusing as well.
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CF4309C...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
wrote:
> > > > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> >
> > > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > > > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> >
> > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout in
> > > > Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare? For instance,
> > > > see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> > > > <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
[...]
> > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Who knows, maybe, it's a real name.
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > It *is* a real name, Art, and it is in use in Belgium today.
> I don't care!
I know that you couldn't care less about evidence, Art, particularly
evidence that undermines your pet fantasies; I'm just pointing it out
for the sake of accuracy.
> > > Maybe Shakespeare was a real name.
> > It *is* a real name, Art. In fact, it's also a reel name:
> >
> > <http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/antiques/how.shtml>.
> I don't care!
I know that you couldn't care less about evidence, Art, particularly
evidence that undermines your pet fantasies; I'm just pointing it out
for the sake of accuracy.
> > > I'm simply pointing out why Droeshout was used for the Folio.
> > No, Droeshout was the name of an engraVER whose work
> > appears in the Folio, and elsewhere as well.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
>
> ALL Coincidence?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, Art. Any other questions? And what on earth do you mean by
"ALL coincidence"? A *single* date is not VERy impressive, nor is such
a coincidence in the least surprising. You really need to learn some
elementary probability theory, Art.
> > > > > > > To suggest that Herodotus
> > > > > > > had anything to do with the writing of the Shakespeare canon
> > > > > > > is of course moronic, since Herodotus lived in antiquity, and only
> > > > > > > limns starkly just how idiotic the INPNC criterion actually is.
> > > > > > Nestor, Socrates & Virgil were more ancient.
> > > > ...and as I noted it's just as moronic to suggest that they had
> > > > anything to do with writing the Shakespeare canon.
> > > It's that silly Stratford moniment which suggests it.
> > No, Art; can't you read Latin?
> The Stratford moniment suggests that:
>
> 1) Shakespeare's judgement is like Nestor's
> 2) Shakespeare's genius is like Socrates'
> 3) Shakespeare's art is like Virgil's
>
> To suggest that the Droeshout reference was intended to include
> Herodotus into the mix is hardly any more far fetched.
Of *course* your suggestion is *much* more far-fetched, Art! The
monument *states explicitly* the comparisons with Nestor, Virgil, etc.;
there is *no mention whateVER* of Herodotus. That Herodotus has
anything to do with it is simply one of your hilarious hallucinations,
evidently occasioned by nothing more than a meaningless, chance
anagram.
> To suggest that
> all four provide a clue as to Shakespeare's true identity is simply an
> attempt to "READ IF YOU CANST" as the moniment asks.
The exhortation is to *read*, not to hallucinate, and if you see
"Herodotus" on the monument, then you are plainly engaged in the latter
activity rather than in the former. In any case, even the exhortation
to read is evidently lost upon you, Art.
> > > > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > Well, . . .on average, atleast. :-)
> > > > I know, Art -- in your unassailable ignorance you were evidently
> > > > unaware that Herodotus predated Virgil!
> > > You had your opportunity to point this out earlier, Dave, and you
> > > blew your opportunity.
> > I certainly don't attempt to point out *all* of your hilarious
> > blunders, Art -- as I've said before, doing so would be like cleansing
> > the Augean stables with a toothbrush. EVERybody -- except you, of
> > course, Art -- knows that Virgil wrote in Latin during the decline of
> > the Roman republic and the rise of Imperial Rome, and that his main
> > epic is the literary landmark of the Augustan Age. EVERybody -- except
> > you, of course, Art -- knows that that Herodotus is believed to have
> > been in Athens during the Peloponnesian War.
> You didn't have A CLUE WHEN HERODOTUS lived (at least, off the top
> of your head); otherwise, you would have jumped all over me immediately.
> You blew it and you know it.
No, Art, you're quite wrong; if you had read my earlier posts
attentively you would know that. I would not have known Herodotus's or
Virgil's precise birth and death dates off the top of my head (in any
case, those of the former are conjectural), but like any sentient
being, I could certainly, off the top of my head, place Herodotus
during the Peloponnesian War, and I could certainly place Virgil as the
literary ornament of the Augustan Age of early Imperial Rome -- and as
any sentient being knows, the former predates the latter by oVER three
centuries! There are some blunders so monumental and so depressing
that even I would not "jump all oVER" you about them.
> > Even if you know *none*
> > of the history of Greco-Roman antiquity (which you clearly do not), one
> > would at least expect you to be aware that the Peloponnesian War
> > predates Imperial Rome by over three centuries! One need not even know
> > *that* -- one need only know that the "Greco" in "Greco-Roman" precedes
> > the "Roman" chronologically. Your Caruanaian chronological gaffe,
> > while farcical (it's about on a par with your use of the term "tsar"
> > for Aleksandr Nevskii), is irrelevant, since *none* of Herodotus,
> > Virgil, or Socrates survived late enough to have had a role in the
> > writing of the Shakespeare canon. But I wouldn't expect you to find
> > this subtle point comprehensible without some thought.
> It's your Caruanaian chronological gaffe as well, Dave.
No, Art, the credit is entirely yours.
> And nobody ever said that Nestor, Herodotus, Virgil, or Socrates
> wrote Shakespeare; just that Nestor, Herodotus, Virgil, & Socrates
> provide clues as to who wrote Shakespeare.
Nobody (except perhaps a few poor deluded souls) suggests that
Nestor and Virgil "provide clues as to who wrote Shakespeare"; nobody
(except perhaps a complete lunatic) suggests that Herodotus "provide[s]
clues as to who wrote Shakespeare."
> > > Apparently, you were unaware that Herodotus
> > > predated Virgil until I pointed it out.
> > No, you're wrong, Art; *eVERy* sentient being is aware of that.
> I guess you're not a sentient being.
As I've already noted, Art, I don't even attempt to correct more
than a VERy small proportion of your comic gaffes -- even the Grand
Master doesn't expect anything more Herculean than that -- and even
then only the ones that amuse me. (Indeed, correcting even half of
your hilarious howlers would VERy probably afford seVERal people a
full-time occupation!)
The present example is so pathetic that I initially found it more
depressing than amusing. Even Stephanie's gargantuan gaffe regarding
Caxton was funnier than it was depressing, as it was evidently a case
of someone who knew nothing of the history of either period hurriedly
consulting the equivalent of the World Book Encyclopedia on her shelves
and botching the date by a full century. However, someone clueless
enough to date Roman Imperial civilization prior to the Athens of
Sophocles displays cultural ignorance of western civilization so
monumental as to be thoroughly depressing -- and, while I have little
doubt that some of the clueless anti-Stratfordians whose hapless
howlers you parody are indeed that ignorant, I *still* found it
depressing.
Indeed, I only began to appreciate the humor you doubtless intended
when I read your followup about aVERaging -- that's a rejoinder worthy
of an anti-Stratfordian, and it reminds me of the some of the comic
data processing I've seen on student evaluations at an institution with
which I was once affiliated. For instance, one such survey asked "Why
did you take this course?" The alternatives were things like: (1)
Required for my major. (2) To meet a distribution requirement. (3)
Recommended by a friend. (4) Reputation of professor. (5) Meeting time
fit my schedule. Incredibly, the student committee charged with
compiling and processing the information *averaged* the student
responses to this question, and produced an aggregate statistic like
2.45!
> > Your comic confusion is comparable to dating John F. Kennedy to the
> > Restoration period.
> *Your* comic confusion is comparable to dating John F. Kennedy to the
> Restoration period. *Your* comic egotism prevents you from admitting
> your blunder.
I've neVER opined that Virgil predated Herodotus, Art -- that's
exclusively your own stupidity. I have neVER seen you deny Elizabeth
Weir's weirdness concerning Einstein, Minkowski, etc., despite the fact
that you undoutbedly know better -- or at least, I *hope* that you do!
-- so by your own "logic," then, I should label these howlers as yours
rather than Weir's.
> > > > That's an even more comic
> > > > chronological gaffe than Stephanie's Caxton blunder, or your own
> > > > risible reference to Aleksandr Nevskii as "tsar"!
> > > That's why every time you point out Stephanie's Caxton blunder we can
> > > bring up your Herodotus blunder.
> > It's *your* blunder, Art, not mine -- indeed, while I wish that I
> > could claim credit, it's far more hilarious than anything I could
> > devise.
> It's my blunder, Art, for posting it without giving it sufficient
> thought or bothering to look it up.
>
> It's your blunder, Art, for letting it pass without giving it
> sufficient thought or bothering to look it up.
No, I'm under no obligation to correct all your blunders, Art. Is
Elizabeth Weir's assertion that the geometry of Minkowski space is
hyperbolic geometry actually *your* blunder for letting it pass without
giving it sufficient thought or bothering to look it up, Art? If you
*really* want to claim it for your own, be my guest! What next? You
didn't take issue with Mr. Streitz's claim that only one of
Shakespeare's plays is set in a foreign country other than Italy --
would you like to claim that one as well?
> At least it bothered me enough to go back, admit to, and correct my
> mistake.
Congratulations, Art! I earnestly enjoin you to do so more often --
but not *too* often, or the rich vein of humor afforded by your posts
would be impoVERished.
> > > > > http://dev(i)lab.dartmouth.edu/history/bronze_age/lessons/27.html
> > > > >
> > > > > <<Later Greeks dated the Trojan War as follows:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1184 B.C. (Eratosthenes),
> > > > > 1209/8 B.C. (the Parian Marble),
> > > > > ca. 1250 B.C. (Herodotus),
> > > > > and 1334/3 B.C. (Douris).>>
> > > > >
> > > > > Nestor: c. 1250 BC {ca. 1250 B.C.}
> > > > > Socrates: c. 430 BC {469 BC - 399 BC}
> > > > > Virgil c. 30 BC {Oct. 15, 70 BC
> > > > > ----------- - Sept. 21, 19 BC}
> > > > > average: c. 570 BC
> > > > >
> > > > > Herodotus c. 444 BC
> > > > Are you under the impression that Nestor was a real person, Art?
> > > No more so than those who pur [sic] up the Stratford moniment.
> > If real people did not erect the Stratford monument, Art, then
> > according to you, who did? Space aliens? Nephilim?
> Real people (masons, in fact) put up the Stratford moniment.
Lowercase "masons," Art? Or uppercase "Masons"? HoweVER, *don't*
oVERlook the Nephilim as a possibility.
[...]
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > http://ShakespeareAuthorship.com/monrefs.html
> > > > >
> > > > > <<In 1631, a year before his death, John Weever
> > > > But Art -- "Iohn Weever" is an anagram of "I, Vere -- Wen Ho."
> > > > Since you profess to repose such confidence in the Idiotic Neuendorffer
> > > > Proper Name Criterion, note that the INPNC score of this anagram is
> > > > 9/10, or 90%. Does this suggest that one should suspect Oxford of
> > > > espionage, Art?
> > > Wen was innocent, Dave; hadn't you heard.
> > But he was certainly *suspected*, which was all I suggested. Can't
> > you read, Art?
> If Wen was innocent then why should one suspect Oxford?
Because an INPNC of 90% would surely, by your "reasoning," suggest
that the anagram linking Oxford with Wen Ho Lee was intentional. Lee
would be an unknown had he not been suspected of espionage.
> > > > > For the most part,
> > > > > the LOGOGRAPHERs were quite uncritical in their approach: they were
> > > > > collectors and systematizers of local legends rather than analytical
> > > > > historians.>>
> > > > That describes you perfectly, Art!
> > > The local legend that interests most is the illiterate Stratford
> > > boob.
> > There is no legend that he was either illiterate or a boob,
> It's the oldest legend in the book.
Only, as I said, among more deluded anti-Stratfordians. The sane
don't subscribe to the legend of Shakespeare's illiteracy that still
circulates -- like the "moniment" canard, the "hasty remarriage" myth,
the notion that the Ashbourne Portrait depicts Oxford, and countless
other untenable and even demonstrably false legends -- among the
ignorant and the credulous -- not that those two categories are
necessarily disjoint, especially where Oxfordians and at least one
Baconian are concerned.
> > except among the more deluded anti-Stratfordians, some of whom are
> > demonstrably illiterate themselves. Besides, the illiterate NOAA boob
> > is more entertaining, and also legendary -- in the sense of celebrated,
> > not in the sense of apocryphal.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Celebrate, v. t. [L. celebratus, p. p. of celebrare to frequent, to
> celebrate, fr. celeber famous.] 1. To extol or honor in a solemn manner;
> as, to celebrate the name of the Most High.
>
> 2. To honor by solemn rites, by ceremonies of joy and respect, or by
> refraining from ordinary business; to observe duly; to keep; as, to
> celebrate a birthday.
>
> 3. To perform or participate in, as a sacrament or solemn rite; to
> solemnize; to perform with appropriate rites; as, to celebrate a
> marriage.
I know the meaning of the word, Art; congratulations upon having
looked it up yourself. HoweVER, in your impatience, you evidently
didn't read far enough to find the sense I had in mind: "Much talked
about, famed, renowned."
> ------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > In any case, you want to be careful when reading Herodotus: like
> > > > > Chaucer, he presents us with a narrator who at times seems incredibly
> > > > > naive, even absurd, but there is evidence that, like Chaucer, a
> > > > > cunning
> > > > > intelligence lies beneath that humble facade.>>
> > > > this describes your Clueless Cretin h.l.a.s. persona perfectly, Art!
> > > A very cunning intelligence.
> > A VERy funning intelligence.
> > A VERy punning intelligence.
I freely admit that your intelligence is often punning, Art -- but
it is *always* funning.
I don't see what his sexual orientation has to do with anything, Art
-- his works were published and performed under his own name, and the
spelling variants merely reflect the various conventions of different
tongues in transliterating the Cyrillic alphabet, not some vast Masonic
conspirac. There is simply no uniVERsally recognized standard scheme
for transliterating into the Latin alphabet texts written in the
Cyrillic alphabet. Similarly, spelling conventions in Early Modern
English were not standardized as early as the Elizabethan period, as
those familiar with texts from that era know quite well -- I realize
that the latter category excludes you and Mr. Streitz, and perhaps even
a few others as well, Art.
> > > > Is this *really* the best you can do?!
> > > It's not bad.
> > It's risible -- even for someone convincingly impersonating a
> > Clueless Cretin.
> People who constantly use the term 'risible' in the 21st century are
> rather amusing as well.
Only to those for whom the limited vocabulary of Beavis and Butthead
is already a stretch.
David Webb
Neuendorffer
> > > > > But Art -- "Iohn Weever" is an anagram of "I, Vere -- Wen Ho."
> > > > > Since you profess to repose such confidence in the Idiotic Neuendorffer
> > > > > Proper Name Criterion, note that the INPNC score of this anagram is
> > > > > 9/10, or 90%. Does this suggest that one should suspect Oxford of
> > > > > espionage, Art?
>
> > > > Wen was innocent, Dave; hadn't you heard.
>
> > > But he was certainly *suspected*, which was all I suggested.
> > > Can't you read, Art?
> Dwebb wrote:
> > If Wen was innocent then why should one suspect Oxford?
>
> Because an INPNC of 90% would surely, by your "reasoning," suggest
> that the anagram linking Oxford with Wen Ho Lee was intentional.
> Lee would be an unknown had he not been suspected of espionage.
1) a high INPNC is a necessary though not sufficient condition,
2) a proper name *not* identifiable in Elizabethan/Jacobian times does
not qualify as a proper name,
3) multiple (apparently) unrelated proper names (including my own:
"AGNES CERVANTES HIRAM") should be penalized one point per name.
In fact, I was too generous in allowing positive points for
"ANAGRAM", it should get null points ways:
> Dwebb wrote:
>> But Art -- "Sans changer ma verite" is an anagram of
>>
>> VER SCENE: ANAGRAM SHIT.
Allowing null points for ANAGRAM=> INPNC= 3/12
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> > >
> > > > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > > > > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> > >
> > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout
> > > > > in Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare?
> > > > > For instance, see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> > > > > <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
> > > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Who knows, maybe, it's a real name.
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > It *is* a real name, Art, and it is in use in Belgium today.
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > I don't care!!!!
> > I'm simply pointing out why Droeshout was used for the Folio.
>
> > > No, Droeshout was the name of an engraVER whose work
> > > appears in the Folio, and elsewhere as well.
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> > 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
> >
> > ALL Coincidence?
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> What on earth do you mean by "ALL coincidence"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) DROESHOUT is a perfect anagram for HERODOTUS
(and only HERODOTUS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes braging about
the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
"sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller, Sir
Walter Scott, and Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
--------------------------------------------------------------------
2) April 26, 1607, Capt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia
April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
April 26, 121, M. Julius Aurelius VERUS born
--------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Julius Aurelius VERUS => Edward de VERE
Antoninus Pius => William Cecil
Faustina Pius => Anne Cecil
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ntin.net/McDaniel/0426.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02109a.htm
http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/Mediterranean/MAurelius.html
April 26, 121, Marcus Aurelius born. His father died while Marcus was
yet a boy, and he was adopted by his grandfather, Annius VERUS. In the
first pages of his "Meditations" (I, i-xvii) he has left us an account,
unique in antiquity, of his education by near relatives and by tutors of
distinction; diligence, gratitude and hardiness seem to have been its
chief characteristics. From his earliest years he enjoyed the friendship
and patronage on the Emperor Hadrian, who bestowed on him the honour of
the equestrian order when he was only six years old, made him a member
of the Salian priesthood at eight, and compelled Antoninus Pius
immediately after his own adoption to adopt as sons and heirs both the
young Marcus and Ceionius Commodus, known later as the Emperor Lucius
Verus. In honour of his adopted father he changed his name from M.
Julius Aurelius Verus to M. Aurelius Antoninus. By the will of Hadrian
he espoused Faustina, the daughter of Antoninus Pius. He was raised to
the consularship in 140, and in 147 received the "tribunician power".
With the accession of Marcus, the great Pax Romana that made the era of
the Antonines the happiest in the annals of Rome, and perhaps of
mankind, came to an end, and with his reign the glory of the old Rome
vanished. Younger peoples, untainted by the vices of civilization, and
knowing nothing of the inanition which comes from overefinement and
over-indulgence, were preparing to struggle for the lead in the
direction of human destiny. Marcus was scarcely seated on the throne
when the Picts commenced to threaten in Britain the recently erected
Wall of Antoninus. The Chatti and Chauci attempted to cross the Rhine
and the upper reaches of the Danube. These attacks were easily repelled.
Marcus Aurelius' death (180 AD). The last years of the reign of Marcus
were saddened by the appearance of a usurper, Avidius Cassius, in the
Orient, and by the consciousness that the empire was to fall into
unworthy hands when his son Commodus should come to the throne.
Marcus died at Vindobona or Sirmium in Pannonia.
--------------------------------------------------------------
April 26 (23? 15? 14?), 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized.
April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized.
April 26, 1607, Cpt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia.
April 25, 1616, Will Shakspere buried
April 26, 1711, Scottish philosopher David Hume born.
April 25, 1719, Daniel Defoe publishes
_The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
April 26, 1731, Daniel Defoe, the creator of Robinson Crusoe and Moll
Flanders and one of the pioneers of the thriller novel, died hiding from
creditors in Ropemaker's Alley, Moorfields. His original family name
was Foe, but he himself ennobled it by adding the aristocratic "De."
He was a fearless attacker of privilege and prestige and was
once put in the pillory for his insolence against the Establishment.
It is said that his friends came and tossed flowers instead
of refuse at him. He is buried in the dissenter cemetery
Bunhill Fields on the New City Road, across the street from
Wesley's first London Chapel. Blake is buried in the same cemetery.
Although Defoe was an incredibly productive & successful writer,
"he left no will, all his property having been previously assigned,
and letter of administration were taken out by a creditor."
April 26, 1785, John James Audubon born in Haiti.
April 26, 1798, French realist painter Eugčne Delacroix born. Liberty on
the Barricades (Louvre) shows his sympathy with the French Revolution.
April 26, 1819, Independent Order of Odd Fellows founded
April 26, 1822, America's first landscape Frederick Law Olmsted born. He
designed Central Park and landscaping the American Capitol. Before the
Civil War, he traveled extensively in the American South and wrote,
among other travelogues, A Journey through Texas (1857).
April 26, 1862, Emily Dickinson wrote to Thomas Wentworth Higginson, an
editor, saying, among other observations, that she had heard of Whitman
but had not read his poems, having heard that they were "disgraceful."
April 26, 1865, John Wilkes Booth was killed by federal troops near
Bowling Green, Virginia. The assassin of President Lincoln, was
surrounded by federal troops in Garrett's Tobacco Farm and killed when
he set fire to the barn where he was hiding, the light the fire emitted
blew his cover and one of the soldiers, Sgt. Boston Corgett, shot him.
Corbett was a religious fanatic who had castrated himself with a bayonet
to be free of sin. Years after killing Booth he committed suicide.
Booth died looking at his hands muttering "Useless..."
April 26, 1923, King George VI and Queen (Mum) Elizabeth, marry.
April 26, 1937, The Spanish city of Guernica was bombed by Fascist
forces using German bombers during Spanish Civil War.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Americans have already subscribed Ł1,000 for an American
memorial window to be put in the Shakespeare Church at Avon. About
three-fourths of the visitors to Shakespeare's tomb are Americans. If
you will show me any American who has visited England and has not seen
that tomb, Barnum shall be on his track next week. It was an American
who roused into its present vigorous life, England's dead interest in
her Shakespearean remains. Think of that! Imagine the house that
Shakespeare was born in being brought bodily over here and set up on
American soil! That came within an ace of being done once. A reputable
gentleman of Stratford told me so. The old building was going to wreck
and ruin. Nobody felt quite reverence enough for the dead dramatist to
repair and take care of his house; so an American came along ever so
quietly and bought it. The deeds were actually drawn and ready for the
signatures. Then the thing got wind and there was a fine stir in
England! The sale was stopped. Public-spirited Englishmen headed a
revival of reverence for the poet, and from that day to this every relic
of Shakespeare in Stratford has been sacred, and zealously cared for
accordingly. Can you name the American who once owned Shakespeare's
birth place for twenty-four hours? There is but one who could ever
have conceived of such an unique and ingenious enterprise, and
he is the man I refer to - P. T. Barnum.
MARK TWAIN
HARTFORD, Monday, April 26, 1875
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> > >
> > > > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > > > > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> > >
> > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout
> > > > > in Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare?
> > > > > For instance, see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> > > > > <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
> > > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Who knows, maybe, it's a real name.
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > It *is* a real name, Art, and it is in use in Belgium today.
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > I don't care!!!!
> > I'm simply pointing out why Droeshout was used for the Folio.
>
> > > No, Droeshout was the name of an engraVER whose work
> > > appears in the Folio, and elsewhere as well.
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> > 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
> >
> > ALL Coincidence?
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> What on earth do you mean by "ALL coincidence"?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
1) DROESHOUT is a perfect anagram for HERODOTUS
(and only HERODOTUS)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes braging
about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
"sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
Americans have already subscribed £1,000 for an American
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CF57C2D...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.compost) wrote:
> > > > > > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Droeshout/Herodotus has an INPNC score of 100%.
> > > > > > > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Consequently, I accepted the phoney name "Droeshout"
> > > > > > > > as being nothing more than an anagram for Herodotus.
> > > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Then how do you account for the appearance of the name Droeshout
> > > > > > in Flemish genealogies both before and after Shakespeare?
> > > > > > For instance, see <http://users.pandora.be/svdroeshout/>,
> > > > > > <http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/1370/dat55.htm>, etc.
[...]
> > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> > > 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
> > >
> > > ALL Coincidence?
> > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > What on earth do you mean by "ALL coincidence"?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 1) DROESHOUT is a perfect anagram for HERODOTUS
> (and only HERODOTUS)
Not *only* "Herodotus," Art -- "Droeshout" is a perfect anagram of
"Oh, E.O.'s turd,"
a summary opinion of Oxford that appears to have been widely shared by
his contemporaries. There are also numerous pertinent anagrams of
"Martin Droeshout," among them
Shit due Art (moron).
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes braging [sic]
Since you profess to regard "y" as interchangeable with the
"Masonic" letter "g," Art, is that supposed to be "braying"? Or did
you actually mean "bragging"?
> about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
> "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
> Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
"coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> 2) April 26, 1607, Capt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia
So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
"coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
(Do you imagine that this "coincidence" is important because 143 is
both the sum of two consecutive integers and the difference of their
squares, Art?)
> April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
> April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
A single coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
> April 26, 121, M. Julius Aurelius VERUS born
So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
"coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
Are you actually unaware of the name Verus, in use many centuries
before Oxford?
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> M. Julius Aurelius VERUS => Edward de VERE
No, Art, you would do better to link Oxford with Marcus Aurelius's
grandfather, Annius Verus. "Annius" admits a perfect anagram that
describes graphically the offense with Orazio Cogno of which Oxford was
accused.
> Antoninus Pius => William Cecil
> Faustina Pius => Anne Cecil
Huh? I fail to see anything remarkable here. For one thing, Marcus
Aurelius did not spurn his wife and abandon their offspring.
[...]
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> April 26 (23? 15? 14?), 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
Well, make up your mind, Art -- which is it? If you cannot even
decide whether da Vinci was born on the date in question, then the
supposed "coincidence" becomes exceedingly unremarkable. The
probability that of four randomly chosen dates, one will be April 26 is
not impressive at all.
> April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized.
>
> April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized.
You *just said this* above in your post, Art -- are you getting
senile? As I said the first time you said this in your post, a single
coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
> April 26, 1607, Cpt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia.
You also said *this* above in your post, Art -- senility this seVERE
is cause for concern! Since you seem not to recall having said this
just a few lines above, doubtless you've already forgotten my response
a few lines above, so I repeat it for your benefit:
"So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
'coincidence'? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
(Do you imagine that this "coincidence" is important because 143 is
both the sum of two consecutive integers and the difference of their
squares, Art?)"
> April 25, 1616, Will Shakspere buried
So?
> April 26, 1711, Scottish philosopher David Hume born.
So?? What does Hume have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
> April 25, 1719, Daniel Defoe publishes
> _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
So?? What does Defoe have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
fact that he happened to publish a novel on the date of Shakespeare's
baptism?
> April 26, 1731, Daniel Defoe, the creator of Robinson Crusoe and Moll
> Flanders and one of the pioneers of the thriller novel, died hiding from
> creditors in Ropemaker's Alley, Moorfields. His original family name
> was Foe, but he himself ennobled it by adding the aristocratic "De."
> He was a fearless attacker of privilege and prestige and was
> once put in the pillory for his insolence against the Establishment.
> It is said that his friends came and tossed flowers instead
> of refuse at him. He is buried in the dissenter cemetery
> Bunhill Fields on the New City Road, across the street from
> Wesley's first London Chapel. Blake is buried in the same cemetery.
> Although Defoe was an incredibly productive & successful writer,
> "he left no will, all his property having been previously assigned,
> and letter of administration were taken out by a creditor."
Shakespeare didn't die intestate, Art, although doubtless you've
already forgotten about his will.
> April 26, 1785, John James Audubon born in Haiti.
So?? What does Audubon have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
> April 26, 1798, French realist painter Eugčne Delacroix born. Liberty on
> the Barricades (Louvre) shows his sympathy with the French Revolution.
But Art -- "Evgčne Delacroix" is a perfect anagram of
O.C. a de Ver ex-ingle!
Since Oxford was indeed accused of keeping Orazio Cogno as his ingle,
the correctness of this decipherment can scarcely be disputed!
> April 26, 1819, Independent Order of Odd Fellows founded
So?? What do the Odd Fellows have to do with Shakespeare? The only
possible connection I can see is yourself, Art, but according to the
membership rolls, you're not a member of the Order -- in other words,
you're merely a lower-case odd fellow, not an uppercase Odd Fellow.
HoweVER, if it's any consolation, you're one of the oddest!
> April 26, 1822, America's first landscape Frederick Law Olmsted born. He
> designed Central Park and landscaping the American Capitol. Before the
> Civil War, he traveled extensively in the American South and wrote,
> among other travelogues, A Journey through Texas (1857).
So?? What does Olmstead have to do with Shakespeare -- other than
the fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's
baptism?
> April 26, 1862, Emily Dickinson wrote to Thomas Wentworth Higginson, an
> editor, saying, among other observations, that she had heard of Whitman
> but had not read his poems, having heard that they were "disgraceful."
She was probably thinking not of Whitman's VERse but of his
anti-Stratfordian beliefs, which are indeed an acute embarrassment.
> April 26, 1865, John Wilkes Booth was killed by federal troops near
> Bowling Green, Virginia. The assassin of President Lincoln, was
> surrounded by federal troops in Garrett's Tobacco Farm and killed when
> he set fire to the barn where he was hiding, the light the fire emitted
> blew his cover and one of the soldiers, Sgt. Boston Corgett [sic],
Is "b" also interchangeable with the Masonic "g," Art? Or are you
just geinb a gumglinb goog and glunderinb, gy hagit? What does Sbt.
Goston Corgett have to do with Shakespeare anyway? Or Gooth, for that
matter? Or Gowling Breen, Virbinia?
> shot him.
> Corbett was a religious fanatic who had castrated himself with a bayonet
> to be free of sin. Years after killing Booth he committed suicide.
> Booth died looking at his hands muttering "Useless..."
So?? What does Booth or Corbett have to do with Shakespeare?
> April 26, 1923, King George VI and Queen (Mum) Elizabeth, marry.
So?? What does George VI (or his bride) have to do with Shakespeare
-- other than the fact that they happened to marry on the date of
Shakespeare's baptism?
> April 26, 1937, The Spanish city of Guernica was bombed by Fascist
> forces using German bombers during Spanish Civil War.
So?? What does Guernica, the Fascists, or the Spanish Civil War
have to do with Shakespeare? Are you under the impression that once
Shakespeare was christened, the date of his baptism was foreVER retired
like a Hall-of-Famer's number, neVER to be used again by any person for
any purpose whateVER, except by Masonic conspirators cunningly alluding
to Shakespeare??!! Is that what you mean by "ALL coincidence," Art??!!
One can only marvel at how utterly imbecilic such a belief is!
[...]
David Webb
lyra
<snips>
> No more so than those who pur up the Stratford moniment.
Purr up, maybe? then they would be kittycats...
lyra
Neuendorffer
> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> > > > 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
> > > >
> > > > ALL Coincidence?
> > > >------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > What on earth do you mean by "ALL coincidence"?
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 1) DROESHOUT is a perfect anagram for HERODOTUS
> > (and only HERODOTUS)
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> Not *only* "Herodotus," Art -- "Droeshout" is a perfect anagram of
>
> "Oh, E.O.'s turd,"
Herodotus => single word, INPNC=9/9
"Oh, E.O.'s turd," => four words, INPNC=2/9
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes bragging
> > about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
> > "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
> > Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
>
> So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
Mason's published Shakespeare;
for them "It's always noon somewhere."
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 2) April 26, 1607, Capt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia
>
> So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
Mason's published Capt. John Smith;
for them "It's always noon somewhere."
> > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
> > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
>
> A single coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
When you are as phoney as Droeshout & Shakspere it is.
> > April 26, 121, M. Julius Aurelius VERUS born
>
> So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
M. Julius Aurelius VERUS is surely a Masonic icon.
> Are you actually unaware of the name Verus, in use many centuries
> before Oxford?
Are you actually unaware of the name William Shakespeare is a pseudonym
like Carolyn Keene (author of Nancy Drew Mysteries).
> Verus, in use many centuries before Oxford?
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > M. Julius Aurelius VERUS => Edward de VERE
> > Antoninus Pius => William Cecil
> > Faustina Pius => Anne Cecil
>
> Huh? I fail to see anything remarkable here. For one thing, Marcus
> Aurelius did not spurn his wife and abandon their offspring.
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > April 26 (23? 15? 14?), 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
>
> Well, make up your mind, Art -- which is it? If you cannot even
> decide whether da Vinci was born on the date in question, then the
> supposed "coincidence" becomes exceedingly unremarkable. The
> probability that of four randomly chosen dates, one will be April 26 is
> not impressive at all.
I'm just being honest about the fact that Da Vinci is assignned a
number of April birthdates.
> > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized.
> >
> > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized.
>
> You *just said this* above in your post, Art -- are you getting
> senile? As I said the first time you said this in your post, a single
> coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
>
> > April 26, 1607, Cpt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia.
> > April 25, 1616, Will Shakspere buried
>
> So?
It goes with Defoe below.
> > April 26, 1711, Scottish philosopher David Hume born.
>
> So?? What does Hume have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
I was just a little Hume[sic].
> > April 25, 1719, Daniel Defoe publishes
> > _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
>
> So?? What does Defoe have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> fact that he happened to publish a novel on the date of Shakespeare's
> baptism?
Defoe has strong Rosicrucian connections.
> > April 26, 1731, Daniel Defoe, the creator of Robinson Crusoe and Moll
> > Flanders and one of the pioneers of the thriller novel, died hiding from
> > creditors in Ropemaker's Alley, Moorfields. His original family name
> > was Foe, but he himself ennobled it by adding the aristocratic "De."
> > He was a fearless attacker of privilege and prestige and was
> > once put in the pillory for his insolence against the Establishment.
> > It is said that his friends came and tossed flowers instead
> > of refuse at him. He is buried in the dissenter cemetery
> > Bunhill Fields on the New City Road, across the street from
> > Wesley's first London Chapel. Blake is buried in the same cemetery.
> > Although Defoe was an incredibly productive & successful writer,
> > "he left no will, all his property having been previously assigned,
> > and letter of administration were taken out by a creditor."
>
> Shakespeare didn't die intestate, Art, although doubtless you've
> already forgotten about his will.
---------------------------------------------------------
<<A thoroughgoing business man's will. It named in minute detail
every item of property he owned in the world -- houses, lands, sword,
silver-gilt bowl, and so on -- all the way down to his "second-best
bed" and its furniture.
It carefully and calculatingly distributed his riches among the
members of his family, overlooking no individual of it. Not even
his wife: the wife he had been enabled to marry in a hurry by
urgent grace of a special dispensation before he was nineteen; the
wife whom he had left husbandless so many years; the wife who had
had to borrow forty-one shillings in her need, and which the lender
was never able to collect of the prosperous husband, but died at
last with the money still lacking. No, even this wife was
remembered in Shakespeare's will.
He left her that "second-best bed."
And NOT ANOTHER THING; not even a penny to bless her lucky
widowhood with.
It was eminently and conspicuously a business man's will, not a
poet's. It mentioned NOT A SINGLE BOOK.
Books were much more precious than swords and silver-gilt bowls and
second-best beds in those days, and when a departing person owned
one he gave it a high place in his will.
The will mentioned NOT A PLAY, NOT A POEM, NOT AN UNFINISHED
LITERARY WORK, NOT A SCRAP OF MANUSCRIPT OF ANY KIND.
Many poets have died poor, but this is the only one in history that
has died THIS poor; the others all left literary remains behind.
Also a book. Maybe two.
If Shakespeare had owned a dog -- but we need not go into that: we
know he would have mentioned it in his will. If a good dog,
Susanna would have got it; if an inferior one his wife would have
got a dower interest in it. I wish he had had a dog, just so we
could see how painstakingly he would have divided that dog among
the family, in his careful business way.>>
---------------------------------------------------------
> > April 26, 1785, John James Audubon born in Haiti.
>
> So?? What does Audubon have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
He is credited with inventing German freeways.
> > April 26, 1798, French realist painter Eugčne Delacroix born. Liberty on
> > the Barricades (Louvre) shows his sympathy with the French Revolution.
>
> But Art -- "Evgčne Delacroix" is a perfect anagram of
>
> O.C. a de Ver ex-ingle!
INPNC=7/15
> > April 26, 1819, Independent Order of Odd Fellows founded
>
> So?? What do the Odd Fellows have to do with Shakespeare?
Shakespeare was an odd fellow.
> The only
> possible connection I can see is yourself, Art, but according to the
> membership rolls, you're not a member of the Order -- in other words,
> you're merely a lower-case odd fellow, not an uppercase Odd Fellow.
> HoweVER, if it's any consolation, you're one of the oddest!
>
> > April 26, 1822, America's first landscape Frederick Law Olmsted born. He
> > designed Central Park and landscaping the American Capitol. Before the
> > Civil War, he traveled extensively in the American South and wrote,
> > among other travelogues, A Journey through Texas (1857).
>
> So?? What does Olmstead have to do with Shakespeare -- other than
> the fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's
> baptism?
Just thinking of my Olmstead again.
> > April 26, 1862, Emily Dickinson wrote to Thomas Wentworth Higginson, an
> > editor, saying, among other observations, that she had heard of Whitman
> > but had not read his poems, having heard that they were "disgraceful."
>
> She was probably thinking not of Whitman's VERse but of his
> anti-Stratfordian beliefs, which are indeed an acute embarrassment.
An acute embarrassment for Stratfordians.
> > April 26, 1865, John Wilkes Booth was killed by federal troops near
> > Bowling Green, Virginia. The assassin of President Lincoln, was
> > surrounded by federal troops in Garrett's Tobacco Farm and killed when
> > he set fire to the barn where he was hiding, the light the fire emitted
> > blew his cover and one of the soldiers, Sgt. Boston Corgett [sic],
>
> Is "b" also interchangeable with the Masonic "g," Art?
Why should I bother proof reading this if you'll do it for me.
> > shot him.
> > Corbett was a religious fanatic who had castrated himself with a bayonet
> > to be free of sin. Years after killing Booth he committed suicide.
> > Booth died looking at his hands muttering "Useless..."
>
> So?? What does Booth or Corbett have to do with Shakespeare?
Booth's brother was the leading Shakespearean actor of the time.
(When I was little I watched Tom Corbett's Space Cadets on TV.)
> > April 26, 1923, King George VI and Queen (Mum) Elizabeth, marry.
>
> So?? What does George VI (or his bride) have to do with Shakespeare
> -- other than the fact that they happened to marry on the date of
> Shakespeare's baptism?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
King Richard III Act 1, Scene 1
CLARENCE Yea, Richard, when I know; for I protest
[A]s yet I do not: but, as I can learn,
[H]e hearkens after prophecies and dreams;
[A]nd from the cross-row plucks the letter G.
[A]nd says a WIZARD told him that by G
[H]is issue disinherited should be;
[A]nd, for my name of GEORGE begins with G,
It follows in his thought that I am he.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
> > April 26, 1937, The Spanish city of Guernica was bombed by Fascist
> > forces using German bombers during Spanish Civil War.
>
> So?? What does Guernica, the Fascists, or the Spanish Civil War
> have to do with Shakespeare? Are you under the impression that once
> Shakespeare was christened, the date of his baptism was foreVER retired
> like a Hall-of-Famer's number, neVER to be used again by any person for
> any purpose whateVER, except by Masonic conspirators cunningly alluding
> to Shakespeare??!!
That's an interesting concept, Dave.
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
> > No more so than those who pur up the Stratford moniment.
lyra wrote:
> Purr up, maybe? then they would be kittycats...
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The cats in the Tower
http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/dreams/383/towercat.htm
<<The Tower of London has been a home for many prisoners during its long
history. A grim and foreboding place like this seems to be an unlikely
home for two cats to set up home. But during the Tudor and Elizabethan
eras, a cat gave loyal comfort to one of those unfortunates incarcerated
there. During the bitter struggle between the Yorkest and Lancastrians
in the War of the Roses, Sir Henry Wyatt was taken prisoner by King
Richard III, in 1483, and sent to the tower. This was quite a difference
in life for him, as he had once been the Governor of the Tower, and now
he had a rather different view on life in the tower. Being a well known
cat lover living in Allington Castle it was said of him that he "ever
used to make much of a cat". Stories say that while in the Tower he was
visited by a stray cat which made its way to his cell through a CHIMNEY.
The cat often used to leave the cell and come back with pigeons
which it gave to Wyatt. It is said these were cooked for him by a
friendly gaoler and made up for the meagre rations that were fed to the
prisoners. It was surmised that when he was first incarcerated he would
become succumb to illness and starvation, but the gifts of food that the
cat brought kept him alive until he was later released. Later Sir Henry
had a memorial built to his cat friend in a church at Boxley in Kent. He
also remembered him in a painting of him in 1532. Several years later,
in 1601, when the reign of Queen Elizabeth was nearing its end, Henry
Wriothesley, the third Earl of Southampton, was incarcerated in the
Tower of London for supporting The Earl of Essex's rebellion. During his
stay there he was joined by his favourite cat, a black and white female
called Trixie. The Earl being a nobleman, had two houses, one country
mansion in Gloucestershire and another, Southampton House, in London.
One story says the cat made its own way across London from Southampton
House, scaled the walls and clambered across the roofs until it found
the CHIMNEY of his cell and climbed down to join the Earl.
We know that the cat kept Wriothesley company because many years
later after the event, the tale was put into writing by Thomas
Pennant an antiquarian. The cat was also included in a portrait
commissioned by Wriothesley around 1603, and painted by John de Critz
the Elder. Trixie is shown as a black cat with white markings to her
face, a snowy white bib, and white forepaws ,sitting by the right
arm of the Earl with a quizzical look upon her face.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CF8059D...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.comedy) wrote:
> > > > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> > > > > 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
> > > > >
> > > > > ALL Coincidence?
> > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > >
> > > > What on earth do you mean by "ALL coincidence"?
> > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 1) DROESHOUT is a perfect anagram for HERODOTUS
> > > (and only HERODOTUS)
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > Not *only* "Herodotus," Art -- "Droeshout" is a perfect anagram of
> >
> > "Oh, E.O.'s turd,"
> Herodotus => single word, INPNC=9/9
> "Oh, E.O.'s turd," => four words, INPNC=2/9
But Art -- the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion score is
not what's at issue, nor indeed is the appeal of the anagram even at
issue. You said that "Droeshout" is a perfect anagram of "Herodotus"
and *only* "Herodotus"; I'm merely pointing that the "only" is clearly
wrong. Besides, as I ponited out, there are also numerous pertinent
anagrams of the *full* name "Martin Droeshout," among them
Shit due Art (moron).
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes bragging
That isn't what you wrote, Art -- you're editing quoted text again.
> > > about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
> > > "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
> > > Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
> > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> Mason's [sic] published Shakespeare;
> for them "It's always noon somewhere."
What on earth makes you think (if I may use the word loosely) that
"Mason's" published Shakespeare, Art? And saying that it's always noon
somewhere is *not* equivalent to saying that the sun neVER sets upon
the British Empire, the adage to which I presume that you're referring.
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 2) April 26, 1607, Capt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia
> > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> Mason's [sic] published Capt. John Smith;
> for them "It's always noon somewhere."
What on earth makes you think (if I may use the word loosely) that
"Mason's" published John Smith, Art? And saying that it's always noon
somewhere is *not* equivalent to saying that the sun neVER sets upon
the British Empire, the adage to which I presume that you're referring.
> > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
> > > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
> > A single coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
> When you are as phoney as Droeshout & Shakspere it is.
That's circular "reasoning" (if I may use the term so loosely), Art
-- you argue that Droeshout and Shakespeare are "phoney" largely upon
the strength of what your Quantitatively Clueless Cretin persona
regards as a striking coincidence of dates, and when I point out that
the supposedly striking coincidence is not striking at all, you claim
that it is anyway because of the putative phoniness of Shakespeare and
Droeshout! Brilliant, Art! You remind me of the genuinely clueless
cretins who claim -- without evidence -- that _Hamlet_ is Oxford's
biography, then proceed to reconstruct Oxford's biography -- including
the hitherto unsuspected fact that he is the Queen's son and prince of
the realm -- from the fact that Hamlet is a prince in the play!
> > > April 26, 121, M. Julius Aurelius VERUS born
> > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> M. Julius Aurelius VERUS is surely a Masonic icon.
"Surely"?! Why "surely," Art? You evidently know that the mission
of the Piory of Sion and its Templar and Masonic offshoots is the
restoration of the Sacred Bloodline to the throne of France, yet you
gibber about Marcus Aurelius being a "Masonic icon"?! Are you aware
that Christians were persecuted under Marcus Aurelius, and that the
Emperor personally disliked them, Art? How, then, could he possibly be
a "Masonic icon"?! And are you aware that the Sacred Merovingian
Bloodline whose restoration is the raison d'ętre of the Masonic orders
did not lose the throne until 750 C.E., some *six centuries* after the
death of Marcus Aurelius, whom you proclaim to be a "Masonic icon"?!
Surely ph...@errors.comedy is a Moronic icon!
> > Are you actually unaware of the name Verus, in use many centuries
> > before Oxford?
> Are you actually unaware of the name William Shakespeare is a pseudonym
> like Carolyn Keene (author of Nancy Drew Mysteries).
You didn't answer my question, Art. And no, there is no credible
evidence known to me that "William Shakespeare" is a pseudonym.
> > Verus, in use many centuries before Oxford?
>
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > M. Julius Aurelius VERUS => Edward de VERE
> > > Antoninus Pius => William Cecil
> > > Faustina Pius => Anne Cecil
> > Huh? I fail to see anything remarkable here. For one thing, Marcus
> > Aurelius did not spurn his wife and abandon their offspring.
Well, what about it, Art? What evidence is there for the
identification of Antonius Pius with Burghley, or of Faustina Pius with
Anne Cecil? Surely *even you* aren't imbecilic enough to believe that
Oxford's is the only instance in recorded history of a man marrying the
daughter of his guardian or mentor?!
> > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > April 26 (23? 15? 14?), 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
> > Well, make up your mind, Art -- which is it? If you cannot even
> > decide whether da Vinci was born on the date in question, then the
> > supposed "coincidence" becomes exceedingly unremarkable. The
> > probability that of four randomly chosen dates, one will be April 26 is
> > not impressive at all.
> I'm just being honest about the fact that Da Vinci is assignned a
> number of April birthdates.
...in which case the supposed "coincidence" of one of those dates
with that of Shakespeare's baptism is utterly unremarkable.
> > > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized.
> > >
> > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized.
> > You *just said this* above in your post, Art -- are you getting
> > senile? As I said the first time you said this in your post, a single
> > coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
> > > April 26, 1607, Cpt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia.
> > > April 25, 1616, Will Shakspere buried
> > So?
> It goes with Defoe below.
But the rubbish about Defoe was idiotic also.
> > > April 26, 1711, Scottish philosopher David Hume born.
> > So?? What does Hume have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
> I was just a little Hume[sic].
At least your posts are Hume-orous, Art.
> > > April 25, 1719, Daniel Defoe publishes
> > > _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
> > So?? What does Defoe have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > fact that he happened to publish a novel on the date of Shakespeare's
> > baptism?
> Defoe has strong Rosicrucian connections.
So?? What has that to do with Shakespeare?
[...]
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > > April 26, 1785, John James Audubon born in Haiti.
> > So?? What does Audubon have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
> He is credited with inventing German freeways.
What?! What has that to do with Shakespeare?!
Only to those who admire Whitman, whether Stratfordian or not.
> > > April 26, 1865, John Wilkes Booth was killed by federal troops near
> > > Bowling Green, Virginia. The assassin of President Lincoln, was
> > > surrounded by federal troops in Garrett's Tobacco Farm and killed when
> > > he set fire to the barn where he was hiding, the light the fire emitted
> > > blew his cover and one of the soldiers, Sgt. Boston Corgett [sic],
> > Is "b" also interchangeable with the Masonic "g," Art?
> Why should I bother proof reading this if you'll do it for me.
Gou ogviourly don't gother psoofseadiny, Ast.
> > > shot him.
> > > Corbett was a religious fanatic who had castrated himself with a bayonet
> > > to be free of sin. Years after killing Booth he committed suicide.
> > > Booth died looking at his hands muttering "Useless..."
> > So?? What does Booth or Corbett have to do with Shakespeare?
> Booth's brother was the leading Shakespearean actor of the time.
So??
> (When I was little I watched Tom Corbett's Space Cadets on TV.)
And you've been one eVER since?
> > > April 26, 1923, King George VI and Queen (Mum) Elizabeth, marry.
> > So?? What does George VI (or his bride) have to do with Shakespeare
> > -- other than the fact that they happened to marry on the date of
> > Shakespeare's baptism?
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> King Richard III Act 1, Scene 1
>
> CLARENCE Yea, Richard, when I know; for I protest
>
> [A]s yet I do not: but, as I can learn,
> [H]e hearkens after prophecies and dreams;
> [A]nd from the cross-row plucks the letter G.
>
> [A]nd says a WIZARD told him that by G
> [H]is issue disinherited should be;
> [A]nd, for my name of GEORGE begins with G,
>
> It follows in his thought that I am he.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
So??
> > > April 26, 1937, The Spanish city of Guernica was bombed by Fascist
> > > forces using German bombers during Spanish Civil War.
Ah, *now* I see the connection -- GERMAN bombers were used during
the Spanish Civil War, and Audubon was credited with inventing GERMAN
freeways! Brilliant, Art! What does any of it have to do with
Shakespeare?
> > So?? What does Guernica, the Fascists, or the Spanish Civil War
> > have to do with Shakespeare? Are you under the impression that once
> > Shakespeare was christened, the date of his baptism was foreVER retired
> > like a Hall-of-Famer's number, neVER to be used again by any person for
> > any purpose whateVER, except by Masonic conspirators cunningly alluding
> > to Shakespeare??!!
> That's an interesting concept, Dave.
I should have guessed that you would find it intriguing.
David Webb
Neuendorffer
> > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized
> > > > > > 37 years after Will Shakspere baptized.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ALL Coincidence?
> > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > What on earth do you mean by "ALL coincidence"?
>
> > > Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 1) DROESHOUT is a perfect anagram for HERODOTUS
> > > > (and only HERODOTUS)
>
> > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> >
> > > Not *only* "Herodotus," Art -- "Droeshout" is a perfect anagram of
> > >
> > > "Oh, E.O.'s turd,"
> Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com> wrote:
> > Herodotus => single word, INPNC=9/9
> > "Oh, E.O.'s turd," => four words, INPNC=2/9
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> But Art -- the Idiotic Neuendorffer Proper Name Criterion score is
> not what's at issue, nor indeed is the appeal of the anagram even at
> issue. You said that "Droeshout" is a perfect anagram of "Herodotus"
> and *only* "Herodotus"; I'm merely pointing that the "only" is clearly
> wrong. Besides, as I ponited [sic] out,
I'm merely ponting that "Herodotus" is the only single word perfect
anagram of "Droeshout" regardless of INPNC
> there are also numerous pertinent
> anagrams of the *full* name "Martin Droeshout," among them
> Shit due Art (moron).
four words, INPNC=3/9
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes bragging
>
> That isn't what you wrote, Art -- you're editing quoted text again.
I keeps from confusing the newbies.
> > > > about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
> > > > "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
> > > > Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
>
> > > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
>
> > Mason's [sic] published Shakespeare;
> > for them "It's always noon somewhere."
>
> What on earth makes you think (if I may use the word loosely) that
> "Mason's" published Shakespeare, Art?
--------------------------------------------------------------
[In first Quarto (1603) Guildenstern was GILDERSTONE]
Thomas Sackville, Lord Buckhurst, (1536-1608)
the English dramatist that paved the way for Shakespeare.
was Grandmaster Freemason (1561-1567)
-------------------------------------------------------------
[B]oaz [J]achin
[B]en [J]onson <=> bnbn-stone
Son of John's son
occup.: bricklayer
‘O Atum-Khoprer, you became high on the
height, you rose up as the bnbn-stone
in the Mansion of the Phoenix at On’
From ancient Egyptian myth, [Benben was]
the hill which was the first land to rise from the waters.
------------------------------------------------------------------
p[YRAMID]-minded Shakspeare
<<The greatest genius that perhaps human nature has yet produced,
our MYRIAD-minded Shakspeare.>> -- 1817 Samuel Taylor Coleridge
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ancientsites.com/~Tjeti_Sobkneferu/Amun/benben.html
<<Sacred stone at Heliopolis that symbolized the Primeval mound
and perhaps also the petrified semen of the sun god Re-Atum,
when he self-copulated and brought things into being:
The Benben served as the earliest prototype for the obelisk, and
possibly
even the pyramid. In recognition of these connections, the gilded
cap-stone placed at the very top of each pyramid or obelisk was known as
a benbenet. The original stone at Heliopolis was believed to have been
the point at which the rays of the rising sun first fell, and
its cult appears to be dated back to the First Dynasty.>>
-------------------------------------------------------
Sonnet
<= 33 =>
TOT [H] EONLIEBEGETTEROFTHESEINSVINGS
ONN [E T] SMRWHALLHAPPINESSEANDTHATETE
RNI [T(I)E] PROMISEDBYOVREVERLIVINGPOET
WIS [H E T H] THEWELLWISHINGADVENTVRERIN
1. Full many a glorious morning have I seen
2. Flatter the mountain tops with sovereign eye,
----------------------------------------------------------
Washington Monument Masonic benbenet
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.greatdreams.com/washmnmt.htm
<<The aluminum metal apex, representing a small pyramid, on top
of the 3300 pound capstone. The apex was engraved with the
names of the engineers and notables who completed the monument
and on one side contained the words: LAUS DEO.>>
---------------------------------------------------------
Final words of First Folio:
CYMBELINE LAUD we the GODS;
And let our crooked smokes climb to their nostrils
From our blest altars. Publish we this peace
To all our subjects. Set we forward: let
A Roman and a British ensign wave
Friendly together: so through Lud's-town march:
And in the temple of great Jupiter
Our peace we'll ratify; seal it with feasts.
Set on there! Never was a war did cease,
Ere bloody hands were wash'd, with such a peace.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
*On* light; the sun, (Gen. 41:45, 50), the great seat of sun-worship,
called also Bethshemesh (Jer. 43:13) and AVEN (Ezek. 30:17), stood
on the east bank of the NILE, a few miles north of MEMPHIS.
EZEKIEL 30:17 The young men of AVEN and of Pibeseth shall fall
by the sword: and these cities shall go into captivity.
AVEN : nothingness; VANITY.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
T O T H E O [N] L i E B E G E T T E R O
F T H E S E [I] n S U I N G S O N N E T
S M R W h a [L] L H A] P P I [N] E S S E A
N D t h a t [E] T [e|R] N I T [I] E P R O M
I S E D B Y O U [r|E] V E R [L] I V I N G
P O E t W I S H [e|T] H T H [E] W E L L W
I S h I N G A [d V E] N T U R E R I N S
E t T I N G F O R T H
---------------------------------------------------------------
Odyssey - Homer (tr. Samuel Butler) ** BOOK VII
<<"First find the queen her name is ARETE. . ."
Ulysses found all the chief people among the Phaecians
making their drink-offerings to MERCURY. He went straight
through the court, still hidden by the cloak of darkness in
which Minerva had enveloped him, till he reached ARETE and King
Alcinous; then he laid his hands upon the knees of the queen, and
at that moment the miraculous darkness fell away from him and he
became visible. Every one was speechless at seeing a man there>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Pope Dunciad fourth book (1742)
Next bidding all draw near on bended knees,
The Queen confers her title and degrees.
Her children first of more distinguished sort,
Who study Shakespeare at the Inns of Court,
Impale a glow-worm, or vertù profess,
Shine in the dignity of F. R. S.,
Some, deep Free-Masons, join the silent race,
Worthy to fill Pythagoras's place:
Some botonists or florists at the least,
Or issue Members of an Annual feast.
---------------------------------------------------------
Alexander Pope's Shakespeare statue points to
"The Solemn Temples,"
---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.sirbacon.org/gallery/west.htm
"The Cloud cupt Tow'rs,
The Gorgeous Palaces
The Solemn Temples,
The Great Globe itself
Yea all which it Inherit,
Shall Dissolue;
And like the baseless FnBRICK of a Vision
Leave not a WRECK behind."
-------------------------------------------------------
Q1 Rossencraft Gilderstone
Q2 Rosencrans Guyldensterne
F1 Rosincrane Guildensterne
F2,3,4 Rosincross(e) Guildenstare
Rosicrucian => Rosy Cross
Freemason => Stone Guild / the Craft
------------------------------------------------------
Many Elizabethans (e.g., Edward Dyer & Francis Bacon)
were Rosicrucians {Rosencrantz => Rosenkreutz}
In Folio's 2,3, & 4 Rosencrantz was ROSINCROSS
[In the first Quarto ROSINCROSS is Rossen(CRAFT)!]
----------------------------------------------------------------
From: A Visit to Edinburgh and Lodge Canongate Kilwinning #2.
Wor. James T. Watson, Jr.
http://www.freemason.org/scrl/monthly/edinburg.htm :
--------------------------------------------------------
<<The "Royal Mile" leads from this castle to Holyrood Castle,
home of Mary, Queen of Scots, from 1561-1567.>>
[ Webster's Biographical Dictionary and the DNB assign
Thomas Sackville as Grandmaster Freemason 1561-1567.]
<<The initiative in forming the Grand Lodge of Scotland was taken by
this Lodge. One of its members, William St. Clair of Rosslyn became
first Grand Master.
The Lodge motto, "POST NUBILE PHOEBUS" (After the clouds
the sun), refers to dawn and ancient sun worship.>>
["ancient sun worship" => obelisks => Baalbek.]
<<The Annual Festival is held on St. John the Baptist's Day,
June 24th.>>
[ June 24, 1604 => Oxford's death ]
<<The present Lodge building was consecrated in December, 1736, and is
the oldest building in the world built for Masonic purposes. On entering
the Lodge room, one is instantly drawn drawn to what appear to be four
alcoves contining statues, two on the north wall and two on the south.
When approached, they are found to be cleverly executed mural paintings
of Lord Byron and Sir Walter Scott on the north wall and Robert Burns
and WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE on the south. These works were completed by
an unknown artist in 1833.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Rushton Triangular Lodge
--------------------------------------------------------------------
<<Reputed meeting place of the Gunpowder plot conspirators. Through a
letter of warning written by Tresham to a peer, the plot was exposed.
Catesby was killed and the others taken prisoner when they were too weak
or badly wounded to fight any longer. All were executed on 31 st January
1606 except for Francis Tresham. He was sent to the Tower of London but
not harshly treated. When he died shortly afterwards poison was
suspected but never proved.>>
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_0/m1373/n3_v46/18099925/p2/article.jhtml?term=
http://www.theheritagetrail.co.uk/notable%20houses/rushton%20lodge.htm
<<The Triangular Lodge went up between 1593 and 1597. By this time
Sir Thomas felt increasingly victimised - his Catholicism, with the
penalties attendant on it, was a major factor in this. The Lodge is
an allegory on the Trinity and the forbidden Mass. It is built in
two different coloured limestones, to a plan based on an equilateral
triangle. Each side is 33 feet and 4 inches long (i.e. one-third
of a hundred) and the inscriptions on each side contain 33 letters.
There are three windows in each of the three floors and,
whenever appropriate, the trefoil which features in the Tresham
coat of arms comes into its own as yet another symbol of the Trinity
in the trefoil over the door is the motto Tres testimonium dant
(There are three that bear witness) from the first Epistle of St. John.
Everywhere space was found for inscriptions and the emblems or conceits
which were so fashionable at the time. They were intended to convey a
meaning in a more or less disguised form. Where there are layers of
meaning, as in the Tresham buildings, it is likely that some of the
clues still remain unravelled. At the Lodge, Mass was symbolised by
the Lamb and Cross and the Chalice. One inscription is taken from the
preface to the canon of the Mass. Of all Sir Thomas' architectural
creations, the Lodge is the most detailed and complete.>>
------------------------------------------------------------
Baron Munchausen's _Gulli[VER REV]iv[ED]
OR, THE VICE OF LYING PROPERLY EXPOSED_ (1793)
CHAPTER 33
-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.ffutures.demon.co.uk/munch/munch.htm#ch33
<<The Baron goes to Petersburgh, and converses with the Empress -
Persuades the Russians and Turks to cease cutting one another's Throats,
and in concert cut a Canal across the Isthmus of Suez - The Baron
discovers the Alexandrian Library, and meets with HERMES TRISMEGISTUS -
Besieges Seringapatam, and challenges Tippoo Saib to single Combat -
They fight - The Baron receives some Wounds on his Face,
but at last vanquishes the Tyrant - The Baron returns to Europe,
and raises the Hull of the Royal GEORGE>>
------------------------------------------------------------------
the Royal GEORGE
------------------------------------------------------------------
King Richard III Act 1, Scene 1
CLARENCE Yea, Richard, when I know; for I protest
[A]s yet I do not: but, as I can learn,
[H]e hearkens after prophecies and dreams;
[A]nd from the cross-row plucks the letter G.
[A]nd says a WIZARD told him that by G
[H]is issue disinherited should be;
[A]nd, for my name of GEORGE begins with G,
It follows in his thought that I am he.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Old High German: AHA! water, river,
Goth.: AHwA water, river,
L.: AQUA water;
L.: AQUARIUS, water carrying, n., A WATER CARRIER,
(E.VERE)=> EWER, n. [OF. EWER, euwier, prop. A WATER CARRIER,
F.['e]vier a washing place, sink, aigui[`e]re EWER,
------------------------------------------------------------------
33 Decades: 1300 => 1630
----------------------------------------------------------------
<<Dante's journey starts on Friday, 8 April, 1300
Canto 33: Dante emerges from Hell and
sees the stars again on Easter Sunday, 10 April, 1300.>>
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Italian_Studies/LD/numbers/04/lobner.html
William Herbert was born on Friday, 8 April, 1580.
William Herbert died of apoplexy on Saturday, 10 April, 1630
after 13 years as the Freemason Grandmaster.
------------------------------------------------------------------
William Herbert's 13th birthday was Palm Sunday: 8 April, 1593
= Catholic Easter Sunday: 18 April, 1593.
Venus & Adonis was registered on: 18 April, 1593.
E.K. Chambers thought the Sonnets were written to Herbert.
------------------------------------------------------------------
The Divine Comedy
http://www.angelfire.com/ak/Nyquil/Dante.html
<<Written by Dante Alighieri in 1306 - 21. The time setting when the
book begins is [the night before Good Friday: April 8] 1300, so he uses
his knowledge of the present to "predict" events. It is divided into 3
sections: Inferno, Purgatorio, and Paradiso. Each one of these sections
is divided into 33 cantos (except Inferno, which has 34 cantos),
which are written in tercets (groups of 3 lines).>>
-------------------------------------------------------
Why didst thou promise such a beauteous day,
And make me travel forth without my cloak,
To let base clouds o'ertake me in my way,
Hiding thy bravery in their rotten smoke?
'Tis not enough that through the cloud thou break,
To dry the rain on my storm-beaten face,
For no man well of such a salve can speak,
That heals the wound, and cures not the disgrace:
Nor can thy shame give physic to my grief;
Though thou repent, yet I have still the loss:
The offender's sorrow lends but weak relief
To him [I. cH(eth)] that bears the strong offence's cross.
---------------------------------------------------------
SONNET 33
TOT [H] EONLIEBEGETTEROFTHESEINSVINGS
ONN [E T] SMRWHALLHAPPINESSEANDTHATETE
RNI [T(I)E] PROMISEDBYOVREVERLIVINGPOET
WIS [H E T H] THEWELLWISHINGADVENTVRERIN
--------------------------------------------------------
1. Full many a glorious morning have I seen
2. Flatter the mountain tops with sovereign eye,
http://www.sirbacon.org/gallery/pyramid.html
3. Kissing with golden face the meadows green,
4. Gilding pale streams with heavenly alchemy;
5. Anon permit the basest clouds to ride
6. With ugly rack on his celestial face,
7. And from the forlorn world his visage hide,
8. Stealing unseen to west with this disgrace:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sonnet 34
T OTHEONLIEBEGETTEROFTHESEINSVINGSO
N N ETSMRWHALLHAPPINESSEANDTHATETERN
I T I EPROMISEDBYOVREVERLIVINGPOETWIS
H E T H THEWELLWISHINGADVENTVRERINSETT
T O T H EONLIEBEGETTEROFTHESEINSVINGSO
N N E T SMRWHALLHAPPINESSEANDTHATETERN
I T I E PROMISEDBYOVREVERLIVINGPOETWIS
H E T H THEWELLWISHINGADVENTVRERINSETT
-----------------------------------------------------------
JOYCE: Ulysses, Lestrygonians
-- A MYRIADminded man, Mr Best reminded.
Coleridge called [Shakespeare] MYRIADminded.
”A phrase,” says Coleridge, “which I borrowed from a Greek monk,
who applies it to a patriarch of Constantinople.”
------------------------------------------------------------------
<<The greatest genius that perhaps human nature has yet produced, our
MYRIAD-minded Shakspeare. I mean the 'Venus and ADonis', and the
'Lucrece'; works which give at once strong promises of the strength,
and yet obvious proofs of the immaturity, of his genius. From these I
abstracted the following marks, as characteristics of original poetic
genius in general.>> -- 1817 Samuel Taylor Coleridge
----------------------------------------------------------------
p[YRAMID]
[MYRIAD]
[MYRRHA-AD]onis
---------------------------------------------------------------
<<MYRRHA was so beautiful that her father king Cinyras of Cyprus
boasted she outshone Aphrodite. Aphrodite sought revenge by
making the girl fall in love with her own father. Clouding Cinyras'
mind with wine, MYRRHA seduced him, and a child was born from the
incestuous union. After discovering the truth, Cinyras threatened to
kill the pregnant MYRRHA, and committed suicide when she fled. MYRRHA
was then turned into a MYRRHA tree, the trunk of which was SPLIT
by a either a wild BOAR or Eileithyia to release her son ADonis.>>
------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Neuendorffer
>> > > <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes bragging
>> > > about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
>> > > "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
>> > > Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
>> Masons published Shakespeare;
>> for them "It's always noon somewhere."
"David L. Webb" wrote:
> And saying that it's always noon
> somewhere is *not* equivalent to saying that the sun neVER sets upon
> the British Empire, the adage to which I presume that you're referring.
I never said anything about the British Empire.
If "it's always noon somewhere" then
the "sun-never-sets" for the earth as a whole.
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > 2) April 26, 1607, Capt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia
>
> > > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
>
> > Mason's [sic] published Capt. John Smith;
> > for them "It's always noon somewhere."
>
> What on earth makes you think (if I may use the word loosely) that
> "Mason's" published John Smith, Art?
Seems like a good bet.
Capt. John Smith is one of those names that keeps popping up.
(Do you believe the Pocohontas story, Dave?)
> > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
> > > > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
>
> > > A single coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
>
> > When you are as phoney as Droeshout & Shakspere it is.
>
> That's circular "reasoning" (if I may use the term so loosely), Art
> -- you argue that Droeshout and Shakespeare are "phoney" largely upon
> the strength of what your Quantitatively Clueless Cretin persona
> regards as a striking coincidence of dates, and when I point out that
> the supposedly striking coincidence is not striking at all, you claim
> that it is anyway because of the putative phoniness of Shakespeare and
> Droeshout! Brilliant, Art!
I thought so.
> > > > April 26, 121, M. Julius Aurelius VERUS born
>
> > > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
>
> > M. Julius Aurelius VERUS is surely a Masonic icon.
>
> "Surely"?! Why "surely," Art?
He fits the pattern to a T.
> You evidently know that the mission
> of the Piory of Sion and its Templar and Masonic offshoots is the
> restoration of the Sacred Bloodline to the throne of France, yet you
> gibber about Marcus Aurelius being a "Masonic icon"?! Are you aware
> that Christians were persecuted under Marcus Aurelius, and that the
> Emperor personally disliked them, Art?
Nobody's perfect. Even Regan became a 33rd degree Mason.
> How, then, could he possibly be
> a "Masonic icon"?! And are you aware that the Sacred Merovingian
> Bloodline whose restoration is the raison d'être of the Masonic orders
> did not lose the throne until 750 C.E., some *six centuries* after the
> death of Marcus Aurelius, whom you proclaim to be a "Masonic icon"?!
There you go again, trying to prove things based upon the sacred
accuracy of historical records.
> Surely ph...@errors.comedy is a Moronic icon!
Don't call me Surely.
> > > Are you actually unaware of the name Verus, in use many centuries
> > > before Oxford?
>
> > Are you actually unaware of the name William Shakespeare is a pseudonym
> > like Carolyn Keene (author of Nancy Drew Mysteries).
>
> You didn't answer my question, Art. And no, there is no credible
> evidence known to me that "William Shakespeare" is a pseudonym.
Then you are unaware.
> > > Verus, in use many centuries before Oxford?
> >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > M. Julius Aurelius VERUS => Edward de VERE
> > > > Antoninus Pius => William Cecil
> > > > Faustina Pius => Anne Cecil
>
> > > Huh? I fail to see anything remarkable here. For one thing, Marcus
> > > Aurelius did not spurn his wife and abandon their offspring.
>
> Well, what about it, Art? What evidence is there for the
> identification of Antonius Pius with Burghley, or of Faustina Pius with
> Anne Cecil?
It fits the pattern: foster son marries Faustian daughter.
> Surely *even you* aren't imbecilic enough to believe that
> Oxford's is the only instance in recorded history of a man
> marrying the daughter of his guardian or mentor?!
Don't call me Surely.
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > April 26 (23? 15? 14?), 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
>
> > > Well, make up your mind, Art -- which is it? If you cannot even
> > > decide whether da Vinci was born on the date in question, then the
> > > supposed "coincidence" becomes exceedingly unremarkable. The
> > > probability that of four randomly chosen dates, one will be April 26 is
> > > not impressive at all.
>
> > I'm just being honest about the fact that Da Vinci is assignned a
> > number of April birthdates.
>
> ...in which case the supposed "coincidence" of one of those dates
> with that of Shakespeare's baptism is utterly unremarkable.
Perhaps.
> > > > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized.
> > > >
> > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT(HERODOTUS) Jr. baptized.
>
> > > You *just said this* above in your post, Art -- are you getting
> > > senile? As I said the first time you said this in your post, a single
> > > coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
>
> > > > April 26, 1607, Cpt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia.
> > > > April 25, 1616, Will Shakspere buried
>
> > > So?
>
> > It goes with Defoe below.
>
> But the rubbish about Defoe was idiotic also.
What rubbish?
> > > > April 26, 1711, Scottish philosopher David Hume born.
>
> > > So?? What does Hume have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > > fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
>
> > I was just a little Hume[sic].
>
> At least your posts are Hume-orous, Art.
Please refrain from using toilet while the train is in the station.
> > > > April 25, 1719, Daniel Defoe publishes
> > > > _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
>
> > > So?? What does Defoe have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > > fact that he happened to publish a novel on the date of Shakespeare's
> > > baptism?
>
> > Defoe has strong Rosicrucian connections.
>
> So?? What has that to do with Shakespeare?
-------------------------------------------------------
Many Elizabethans (e.g., Edward Dyer & Francis Bacon)
were Rosicrucians {Rosencrantz => Rosenkreutz}
In Folio's 2,3, & 4 Rosencrantz was ROSINCROSS
[In the first Quarto ROSINCROSS is Rossen(CRAFT)!]
Q1 Rossencraft Gilderstone
Q2 Rosencrans Guyldensterne
F1 Rosincrane Guildensterne
F2,3,4 Rosincross(e) Guildenstare
----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > April 26, 1785, John James Audubon born in Haiti.
>
> > > So?? What does Audubon have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > > fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
>
> > He is credited with inventing German freeways.
>
> What?! What has that to do with Shakespeare?!
Shakespeare became famous when German freemason Goethe wrote about
him.
> > > > April 26, 1923, King George VI and Queen (Mum) Elizabeth, marry.
>
> > > So?? What does George VI (or his bride) have to do with Shakespeare
> > > -- other than the fact that they happened to marry on the date of
> > > Shakespeare's baptism?
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > King Richard III Act 1, Scene 1
> >
> > CLARENCE Yea, Richard, when I know; for I protest
> >
> > [A]s yet I do not: but, as I can learn,
> > [H]e hearkens after prophecies and dreams;
> > [A]nd from the cross-row plucks the letter G.
> >
> > [A]nd says a WIZARD told him that by G
> > [H]is issue disinherited should be;
> > [A]nd, for my name of GEORGE begins with G,
> >
> > It follows in his thought that I am he.
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> So??
Freemasons all:
George VI's name begins with G,
Edward VIII was thereby disinherited.
Oxford should have been Edward VII.
> > > > April 26, 1937, The Spanish city of Guernica was bombed by Fascist
> > > > forces using German bombers during Spanish Civil War.
>
> Ah, *now* I see the connection -- GERMAN bombers were used during
> the Spanish Civil War, and Audubon was credited with inventing GERMAN
> freeways! Brilliant, Art! What does any of it have to do with
> Shakespeare?
Shakespeare died on the same day as Cervantes.
> > > So?? What does Guernica, the Fascists, or the Spanish Civil War
> > > have to do with Shakespeare? Are you under the impression that once
> > > Shakespeare was christened, the date of his baptism was foreVER retired
> > > like a Hall-of-Famer's number, neVER to be used again by any person for
> > > any purpose whateVER, except by Masonic conspirators cunningly alluding
> > > to Shakespeare??!!
>
> > That's an interesting concept, Dave.
>
> I should have guessed that you would find it intriguing.
Just interesting.
Art Neuendorffer
lyra
> > > > > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > Maybe Shakespeare was a real name.
> >
> > It *is* a real name, Art. In fact, it's also a reel name:
> >
> > <http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/antiques/how.shtml>.
> I don't care!
from the url...
How old is my Shakespeare reel?
From about 1929 to 1977, all Shakespeare reels carried a two letter
dating code.
<with snips>
Compare the two letters to the numbers and letters on the chart below.
Example: Reel model number 1744FM. Match the letter F with the number
5 and the letter M with the number nine. This means this reel was
first produced in 1959.
Shakespeare Reel Series Dating Formula
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0
K J H G F E D C B A
V U T S R Q P N M L
at last! the real code to decipher Shakespeare with!
lyra
Brendan Carson
>
Snip..
> <<Herodotus was born (c 484 BC) in a Greek city on the coast of lower
> Asia Minor. He was raised by his wealthy family ...<
...Snip
Well, that's cleared that up.
BDC
David L. Webb
the "To," "Cc," and "Newsgroups" headers for details. ]]
In article <3CF8FADC...@erols.com>, Neuendorffer <ph...@erols.com>
(ph...@errors.compost) wrote:
> Neuendorffer wrote:
>
> >> > > <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes bragging
> >> > > about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
> >> > > "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
> >> > > Sir Walter Scott, & Capt. John Smith.>> - Don Gifford
> >> Masons published Shakespeare;
That's not what you wrote, Art -- you're editing quoted text without
flagging it again.
> >> for them "It's always noon somewhere."
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
>
> > And saying that it's always noon
> > somewhere is *not* equivalent to saying that the sun neVER sets upon
> > the British Empire, the adage to which I presume that you're referring.
> I never said anything about the British Empire.
>
> If "it's always noon somewhere" then
> the "sun-never-sets" for the earth as a whole.
That's a complete triviality, Art, and it has essentially nothing to
do with Masonry.
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > 2) April 26, 1607, Capt. John Smith & 143 others land in Virginia
> > > > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > > > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> > > Mason's [sic] published Capt. John Smith;
> > > for them "It's always noon somewhere."
> > What on earth makes you think (if I may use the word loosely) that
> > "Mason's" published John Smith, Art?
> Seems like a good bet.
> Capt. John Smith is one of those names that keeps popping up.
> (Do you believe the Pocohontas story, Dave?)
In other words, you have *no* such evidence, other than the fact
that you "think" that's it's a "good bet." Your inability to adduce
any evidence is of course exactly what I expected, Art. Are you
parodying Elizabeth Weir?
> > > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
> > > > > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
> > > > A single coincidental date is neither impressive nor surprising.
> > > When you are as phoney as Droeshout & Shakspere it is.
> > That's circular "reasoning" (if I may use the term so loosely), Art
> > -- you argue that Droeshout and Shakespeare are "phoney" largely upon
> > the strength of what your Quantitatively Clueless Cretin persona
> > regards as a striking coincidence of dates, and when I point out that
> > the supposedly striking coincidence is not striking at all, you claim
> > that it is anyway because of the putative phoniness of Shakespeare and
> > Droeshout! Brilliant, Art!
> I thought so.
You would. (Mr. Streitz would probably find it cleVER also.)
> > > > > April 26, 121, M. Julius Aurelius VERUS born
> > > > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
> > > > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> > > M. Julius Aurelius VERUS is surely a Masonic icon.
> > "Surely"?! Why "surely," Art?
> He fits the pattern to a T.
*What* "pattern"?
> > You evidently know that the mission
> > of the Piory of Sion and its Templar and Masonic offshoots is the
> > restoration of the Sacred Bloodline to the throne of France, yet you
> > gibber about Marcus Aurelius being a "Masonic icon"?! Are you aware
> > that Christians were persecuted under Marcus Aurelius, and that the
> > Emperor personally disliked them, Art?
> Nobody's perfect. Even Regan [sic] became a 33rd degree Mason.
Who's "Regan," Art? Goneril's sister? Is *that* your putative
connection of Freemasonry with Shakespeare? You've furnished no sane
evidence yet of such a connection.
> > How, then, could he possibly be
> > a "Masonic icon"?! And are you aware that the Sacred Merovingian
> > Bloodline whose restoration is the raison d'être of the Masonic orders
> > did not lose the throne until 750 C.E., some *six centuries* after the
> > death of Marcus Aurelius, whom you proclaim to be a "Masonic icon"?!
> There you go again, trying to prove things based upon the sacred
> accuracy of historical records.
There you go again, Art, merely inventing the history of periods of
which you are farcically ignorant. The historical record concerning
Marcus Aurelius is robust and redundant. The Merovingian dynasty
lasted nearly three centuries, and it too is adequately enough
documented that one may be quite confident that its inception (from the
ruling line of the Salian Franks) occurred shortly prior to the Dark
Ages, and hence postdated Marcus Aurelius by centuries. This is about
on a par with your Virgil-before-Herodotus and Nevskii-as-tsar
blunders, Art!
> > Surely ph...@errors.comedy is a Moronic icon!
> Don't call me Surely.
Fine, Art; I'll confine myself to Moronic.
[...]
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > M. Julius Aurelius VERUS => Edward de VERE
> > > > > Antoninus Pius => William Cecil
> > > > > Faustina Pius => Anne Cecil
> > > > Huh? I fail to see anything remarkable here. For one thing, Marcus
> > > > Aurelius did not spurn his wife and abandon their offspring.
> > Well, what about it, Art? What evidence is there for the
> > identification of Antonius Pius with Burghley, or of Faustina Pius with
> > Anne Cecil?
> It fits the pattern: foster son marries Faustian daughter.
Don Foster's son is nowhere *near* marriage age yet, Art.
> > Surely *even you* aren't imbecilic enough to believe that
> > Oxford's is the only instance in recorded history of a man
> > marrying the daughter of his guardian or mentor?!
> Don't call me Surely.
OK, Art; I'll stick to Imbecilic.
> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > April 26 (23? 15? 14?), 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
> > > > Well, make up your mind, Art -- which is it? If you cannot even
> > > > decide whether da Vinci was born on the date in question, then the
> > > > supposed "coincidence" becomes exceedingly unremarkable. The
> > > > probability that of four randomly chosen dates, one will be April 26 is
> > > > not impressive at all.
> > > I'm just being honest about the fact that Da Vinci is assignned a
> > > number of April birthdates.
> > ...in which case the supposed "coincidence" of one of those dates
> > with that of Shakespeare's baptism is utterly unremarkable.
> Perhaps.
Certainly!
[...]
> > > > > April 25, 1719, Daniel Defoe publishes
> > > > > _The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe_
> > > > So?? What does Defoe have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > > > fact that he happened to publish a novel on the date of Shakespeare's
> > > > baptism?
> > > Defoe has strong Rosicrucian connections.
> > So?? What has that to do with Shakespeare?
> -------------------------------------------------------
> Many Elizabethans (e.g., Edward Dyer & Francis Bacon)
> were Rosicrucians
So? Neither had anything to do with Shakespeare, as far as is
known. Nor did Rosicrucians.
> {Rosencrantz => Rosenkreutz}
> In Folio's 2,3, & 4 Rosencrantz was ROSINCROSS
> [In the first Quarto ROSINCROSS is Rossen(CRAFT)!]
So?
> Q1 Rossencraft Gilderstone
> Q2 Rosencrans Guyldensterne
> F1 Rosincrane Guildensterne
> F2,3,4 Rosincross(e) Guildenstare
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > April 26, 1785, John James Audubon born in Haiti.
> > > > So?? What does Audubon have to do with Shakespeare -- other than the
> > > > fact that he happened to be born on the date of Shakespeare's baptism?
> > > He is credited with inventing German freeways.
> > What?! What has that to do with Shakespeare?!
> Shakespeare became famous when German freemason Goethe wrote about
> him.
Shakespeare was famous before Goethe wrote about him. And you
*still* didn't explain what Audubon's putative invention of German
freeways has to do with Shakespeare.
> > > > > April 26, 1923, King George VI and Queen (Mum) Elizabeth, marry.
> > > > So?? What does George VI (or his bride) have to do with Shakespeare
> > > > -- other than the fact that they happened to marry on the date of
> > > > Shakespeare's baptism?
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > King Richard III Act 1, Scene 1
> > >
> > > CLARENCE Yea, Richard, when I know; for I protest
> > >
> > > [A]s yet I do not: but, as I can learn,
> > > [H]e hearkens after prophecies and dreams;
> > > [A]nd from the cross-row plucks the letter G.
> > >
> > > [A]nd says a WIZARD told him that by G
> > > [H]is issue disinherited should be;
> > > [A]nd, for my name of GEORGE begins with G,
> > >
> > > It follows in his thought that I am he.
> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> > So??
> Freemasons all:
The Queen Mother was not a Freemason, Art.
> George VI's name begins with G,
> Edward VIII was thereby disinherited.
> Oxford should have been Edward VII.
Huh? Are you embracing Mr. Streitz's brand of lunacy, Art?! What
next? Mr. Streitz's crank aerodynamic theories?!
> > > > > April 26, 1937, The Spanish city of Guernica was bombed by Fascist
> > > > > forces using German bombers during Spanish Civil War.
> > Ah, *now* I see the connection -- GERMAN bombers were used during
> > the Spanish Civil War, and Audubon was credited with inventing GERMAN
> > freeways! Brilliant, Art! What does any of it have to do with
> > Shakespeare?
> Shakespeare died on the same day as Cervantes.
So??
> > > > So?? What does Guernica, the Fascists, or the Spanish Civil War
> > > > have to do with Shakespeare? Are you under the impression that once
> > > > Shakespeare was christened, the date of his baptism was foreVER retired
> > > > like a Hall-of-Famer's number, neVER to be used again by any person for
> > > > any purpose whateVER, except by Masonic conspirators cunningly alluding
> > > > to Shakespeare??!!
> > > That's an interesting concept, Dave.
> > I should have guessed that you would find it intriguing.
> Just interesting.
If you find the idea of a date foreVER retired from further use (for
births, deaths, christenings, publications, etc.) "interesting," then
you must be switching trolling personae from your Quantitatively
Clueless Cretin persona to that of your Petulant Paranoid persona, Art.
David Webb
Elizabeth Weir
I wrote an entire post with plenty of evidence linking the
discovery of a second T. T. dedication in Smith's Generall
Historie of Virginia to the T. T. dedication in the 1609
Shakes-Speare Sonnets and I didn't get a bite from you, Webb.
Smith's Historie is another one of those One Work Wonders that
have Bacon's fingerprints all over them--Raleigh's History of
the World is another--and Baconian headpieces are featured
in these works along with other Baconian cypher-signatures.
Here's a snip from my totally ignored post on the discovery of
a Second T.T. Dedication that refers to a Baconian cypher that
appeared in a frontispieces of the popular "Smith" work.
The site owner wrote:
'Hidden forms of the light and dark "A A" device present themselves in
even stranger places, such as within the crown of the royal insignia,
in one of the maps from Captain John Smith's 'Generall Historie of
Virginia, New England and the Summer Isles (1624).' Later editions of
this book restore the royal insignia back to it's proper form, making
this a unique occurrence of this artifact. An image of this device is
pictured below. The dark "A" is turned upside down to avoid notice:
<http://www.all-things-bacon.com/gifs/oak.ht1.gif>
<http://www.all-things-bacon.com/gifs/snailkiss.gif>
<http://www.all-things-bacon.com/intro.html>
I am not going to touch the Masons but the Elizabethan age
was, in fact, interested in these fraternities and in cyphering--even
the conservative classical scholar Camden left cyphers in Remaines.
It is simply a fact of Elizabethan scholarship. Nothing like
Rips' ridiculous bible code but cyphers nevertheless.
Neuendorffer
>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > > > <<The "sun-never-sets" image begins with HERODOTUS (Xerxes bragging
>>>> > > > about the glory of the Persian Empire). Reworkings of HERODOTUS'
>>>> > > > "sun-never-sets" phrase can be found in Daniel Webster, Schiller,
>>>> > > > April 26, 1564, Will Shakspere baptized
>>>> > > > April 26, 1601, Martin DROESHOUT Jr. baptized
>>>> > > > April 26, 1607, CAPT. JOHN SMITH & 143 others land in Virginia
>>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> > Dwebb wrote:
>>>> > > So?? What is supposed to be significant about this putative
>>>> > > "coincidence"? What on earth does this have to do with Shakespeare?
> >
> > > > > Masons published Capt. John Smith;
> > > > > for them "It's always noon somewhere."
> >> "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > > > What on earth makes you think
> > > > that Masons published John Smith, Art?
> > Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > Seems like a good bet.
> > > Capt. John Smith is one of those names that keeps popping up.
> > > (Do you believe the Pocohontas story, Dave?)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.iath.virginia.edu/vcdh/jamestown/Pocahontas.html
<<Many historians doubt the veracity of Smith's account. It was not the
first time the wily Captain had been saved by a beautiful young woman.
He also claimed that a Turkish princess saved his life when he was
captured while fighting in Hungary. Also Smith first mentioned the
Pocahontas rescue in his Generall Historie which was published in
1616, after Pocahontas traveled to England. The scene is absent
from his earlier account, A True Relation, published in 1608.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------
> Dwebb wrote:
> > In other words, you have *no* such evidence, other than the fact
> > that you "think" that's it's a "good bet." Your inability to adduce
> > any evidence is of course exactly what I expected, Art. Are you
> > parodying Elizabeth Weir?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth Weir wrote:
> I wrote an entire post with plenty of evidence linking the
> discovery of a second T. T. dedication in Smith's Generall
> Historie of Virginia to the T. T. dedication in the 1609
> Shakes-Speare Sonnets and I didn't get a bite from you, Webb.
>
> Smith's Historie is another one of those One Work Wonders that
> have Bacon's fingerprints all over them--Raleigh's History of
> the World is another--and Baconian headpieces are featured
> in these works along with other Baconian cypher-signatures.
>
> Here's a snip from my totally ignored post on the discovery of
> a Second T.T. Dedication that refers to a Baconian cypher that
> appeared in a frontispieces of the popular "Smith" work.
>
> The site owner wrote:
>
> 'Hidden forms of the light and dark "A A" device present themselves in
> even stranger places, such as within the crown of the royal insignia,
> in one of the maps from Captain John Smith's 'Generall Historie of
> Virginia, New England and the Summer Isles (1624).' Later editions of
> this book restore the royal insignia back to it's proper form, making
> this a unique occurrence of this artifact. An image of this device is
> pictured below. The dark "A" is turned upside down to avoid notice:
>
> <http://www.all-things-bacon.com/gifs/oak.ht1.gif>
> <http://www.all-things-bacon.com/gifs/snailkiss.gif>
> <http://www.all-things-bacon.com/intro.html>
------------------------------------------------------
Elizabeth Weir wrote:
> The context of the dedication and the sentiments expressed by the
> writer suggest it was written by Virginia Company Adventurer Sir
> Francis Bacon.
>
> A Gentleman desirous to be unknowne, yet a great
> Benefactor to Virginia, his love to the Author,
> the Company, and History.
>
> See here behold as in a Glasse,
> All that is, or is and was.
> T.T., 1624
-----------------------------------------------------------------
"all that is I see."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hamlet, Prince of Denmark Act 3, Scene 4 Quarto 2
Ger. To whom doe you speake this?
Ham. Doe you see nothing there?
Ger. Nothing at all, yet all that is I see.
Ham. Nor did you nothing heare?
Ger. No nothing but our selues.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.jamestowne.org/history/johns.htm
Captain John Smith died in London, June, 1631,
and was buried in St. Sepulchre's Church.
<<"The [stained glass] window provides a memorial to one of our most
courageous and brave colonists, Captain John Smith, and also to his
distinguished and learned biographer, the late Bradford Smith. The
intention was to accompany the figure of Captain Smith with those
of two of his most loyal and faithful friends. Accordingly,
a portrait of Edward de Vere's nephew:
ROBERT BERTIE, EARL of LINDSEY,
Lord Willoughby is shown in his Garter Robes
and holding a wand as Lord Great Chamberlain, in 1628. Willoughby and
Captain Smith were neighbors in the County of Lincoln and it was due
to Lord Willoughby's help that Smith was able to find a channel for
his energy and to realise his ambitions.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Smith's friend ROBERT BERTIE, EARL of LINDSEY
--------------------------------------------------------------------
John Neville --------- Isabel
(Northumberland) | INGOLDESTHORPE
(Marquis MONTAGU) |
|
Anthony Browne ------------- Lucy Neville
1485 - 1506 |
|
/--------------------------------\
| | Anne BROWNE--- Charles
| | /- Brandon -\
| | Mary Tudor-/ (LISLE) |
| | |
Anthony Browne --- Alice Lucy --- Thomas Clifford |
L.ISLE of Man | Gage Browne |
d. 1548 | Katherine |
| Richard Bertie--- Willoughby ---/
| |
/-----------------------------\ Peregrine -------- Mary Vere
| | Bertie | (Ed's sis)
| Jane | |
Anthony Browne --- Ratcliff Lucy Browne--Thomas |
d. 1592 | Roper |
| |
Thomas --- MARY BROWNE --- Henry Wriothesley ROBERT BERTIE
Heneage / | (Southampton) 1st EARL of LINDSEY
d.1592 / | Lord Great Chamberlain
/ Henry Wriothesley 16 Dec 1582 - 23 Oct 1642
W. Harvey---/ (Southampton) Killed in Battle of Edgehill
(Mr.W.H.) Bart [Married Elizabeth MONTAGU]
(later Ross)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.factmonster.com/ce6/people/A0845620.html
<<Smith, John, c. 1580–1631, English colonist in America, b. Willoughby,
Lincolnshire, England. A merchant's apprentice until his father's death
in 1596, he thereafter lived an adventurous life, traveling, fighting in
wars against the Turks in Transylvania and Hungary, and surviving a
period of slavery in Turkey. His own account of these adventures has
been doubted by some investigators. Returning to England, he invested in
the new London Company and in 1606 sailed from London for America with
Capt. Christopher Newport. On arrival in Virginia, Smith was named a
member of the governing council of the Jamestown settlement, although
not permitted to serve immediately, and began his explorations of the
surrounding territory. He established trade relations with the Native
Americans, drew up a map of Virginia, and finally fell into the hands
of the Native American chief Powhatan. There is no definite proof of
the famous incident of Smith's being saved from death by Powhatan's
daughter, Pocahontas. After his return (1608) to Jamestown, Smith's
enemies arrested him, but he was saved from hanging by the arrival of
Newport with new settlers. Smith then became president of the council
and energetically resisted the company's peremptory demands that the
colonists find gold. Maintaining his leadership despite opposition, he
carried the colony through periods of intense suffering, hunger, and
want (the “starving time”), remaining firm, tactful, and resourceful.
Injured in an explosion, he returned to England in 1609. In 1614 he was
sent to New England by a group of London merchants, and returned with a
valuable cargo of fish and furs. He emphasized the importance of fishing
and upheld the prospects for settlement in New England. On another
voyage he was captured by pirates and then by the French, but eventually
returned to England. He wrote:
A True Relation of . . . Virginia (1608),
A Map of Virginia (1612), A Description of New England (1616),
New England's Trials (1620, 2d ed. 1622),
The Generall Historie of Virginia, New-England, and the Summer Isles
(1624),
An Accidence; or, The Path-Way to Experience (1626; enl. and repub. as
A Sea Grammer, 1627),
The True Travels, Adventures, and Observations of Captaine John Smith
(1630),
and Advertisements for the Unexperienced Planters of New England, or
Anywhere (1631).>>
http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/epo/mapexhib/image54.html
http://www.uncp.edu/home/canada/work/allam/16071783/lit/smith.htm
Smith wrote many accounts of his experience in Virginia and New
England, including The Generall Historie of Virginia, New
England, and the Summer Isles. In these works, especially in his
account of fighting off 200 Native Americans while using one
as a shield, Smith provided early examples of THE TALL TALE.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/page/s/smith.shtml
<<Captain John Smith (January 9, 1580 - June, 1631) was an English
adventurer and soldier, and one of the founders of the Jamestown.
At his feet is a volume with the initials of Thomas Hariot
who compiled a small dictionary of the Indian Language.
Smith himself holds a copy of his famous map of Virginia. The other
loyal friend and Patron is Sir Samuel Saltonstall, son of a Lord Mayor
of London. He it was who bore the costs of printing Smith's Sea Grammar.
Not only did he undertake this but he also held open house for Smith at
his home in Snow Hill, to the west of this Church. In this house a room
was reserved for Smith who had a trunk standing there, no doubt for his
personal books and belongings. Sir Samuel's first cousin, Sir Richard
Saltonstall, founded the Massachusetts branch of the family which
continues to this day. The Tower of the Church stands behind his figure
and is shown as it was before restoration not long after Smith died.
Below these three figures is the trio of vessels which on a dark
December night in 1606, sailed down the Thames to arrive on
April 26th of the following year on the coast of Virginia.
Discovery 20 tons/Susan Constant 120 tons /Godspeed 40 tons.
The Heraldry at the top of the window also has its own story.
From left to right, we see the Monogram R.H.
standing for Robert Hunt, Vicar of Heathfield, Sussex and
Chaplain to the Expedition and the Colony. Next are the Arms of Thomas,
Lord De La Warr, eldest brother of Francis West and Lord Governor and
Captain General for South Virginia. Adjoining this are the Arms of Henry
Carey, Earl of Dover, to whom Smith dedicated his True Travels,
Adventures and Observations of 1629. Then follow the Arms of William
Herbert, Earl of Pembroke, another Patron to whom Smith's book was
dedicated, and the Arms of Frances Howard, Duchess of Richmond and
Lennox, who financed Smith's General History and permitted him to
include an engraving of her Portrait. This line of tracery ends with the
letters B.G. standing for Bartholomew Gosnold the Pathfinder of New
England who was the prime mover of the Colony of Virginia. High at the
top of the Window are the letters S.H. separated by a Cross, standing
for St. Helen's, Willoughby by Alford in the County of Lincoln where
Captain John Smith was baptised on January 9th 1580.">>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.otleyhall.co.uk/history.htm
<<Bartholomew Gosnold(1571-1607) voyaged to the New World,where in 1602
he discovered Cape Cod and Martha's Vineyard, which he named after his
infant daughter. In 1607 he returned to found Jamestown colony in
Virginia, the first permanent English-speaking settlement in America.
Traditionally, Gosnold's name has had to yield first place to Captain
John Smith, one of the many East Anglians he recruited for the second
voyage. According to his own account, Smith was rescued from death by
Pocahontas, the beautiful daughter of Indian Chief Powhatan. She died in
1616 while on a visit to England and is buried at St. George's Church in
Gravesend, Kent. The literary repercussions of Gosnold’s 1602 voyage
were also considerable: Shakespeare’s final play The Tempest was
inspired by reports of the voyage.
Indeed, it is through the Gosnold connection that Edward Everett Hale
was able to identify Prospero’s Island as Cuttyhunk, one of the
Elizabeth Isles off the coast of Massachusetts, where Bartholomew
Gosnold built the first known English house in America.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.everreader.com/eldredge.htm
Oxford invested in two voyages looking for the northwest passage, and
his son funded the Gosnold expedition that invented Martha's Vineyard.
But Gosnold, who was a kissing cousin of Oxford and Southampton's
college roommate, died in Virginia in 1607 (his second trip).
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://beatl.barnard.columbia.edu/students/his3487/cole/bartholomew.html
<<English mariner Bartholomew Gosnold explores "New England." Sponsored
by William Shakespeare’s patron Henry Wriothesley, 29, third earl of
Southampton, he has sailed from the Azores and is the first Englishman
to set foot in the region. Gosnold sails from Maine to Cape Cod which he
so names after "coming to anker" in the harbor of what will be called
Provincetown. He names Martha’s Vineyard after his eldest child, builds
a house on Cuttyhunk (which he calls Elizabeth’s Island), trades with
the natives, and returns with a valuable cargo of sassafras (believed
to be a specific for syphilis), furs, and other commodities, leaving
smallpox in his wake.>>
--------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.iath.virginia.edu/vcdh/jamestown/Pocahontas.html
<<It was during her captivity that Pocahontas met the colonist John
Rolfe. Rolfe was a prominent settler, having introduced Caribbean
tobacco into the colony. Tobacco became Virginia's chief export and
launched an economic boom for the colony. Rolfe owned a plantation
called Bermuda Hundred. He fell in love with Pocahontas and proposed
marriage (after having first asked permission of the governor). The
couple married on April 5, 1614. Pocahontas' uncle and two of her
brothers came to the wedding performed by Reverend Richard Buck. The
marriage of Pocahontas and John Rolfe was a political alliance that came
at a critical time in the colony's history. After the marriage, the
colonists enjoyed a peaceful relationship with the Indians that lasted
until Powhatan's death in 1618. Pocahontas adapted well to the English
language and culture. In 1615 Pocahontas gave birth to a son, named
Thomas in honor of the governor. The Virginia Company recognized
Pocahontas's contributions to the colony that same year
and they awarded her an annual stipend.
In 1616, Pocahontas, her husband, and son, and several other Indian
men and women, all traveled to England. Pocahontas captivated English
royalty and the publicity in turn sparked interest in the colonial
settlement. She was introduced to the King and Queen as well as the
Bishop of London. She was also briefly reunited with Captain Smith. Soon
after this encounter, Smith published his account of Pocahontas' rescue.
The Rolfe family toured England for seven months. In March 1617 they
boarded a ship to return to Virginia. On board ship Pocahontas became
gravely ill with pneumonia (or perhaps tuberculosis). She was taken
ashore and died on March 21, 1617, at Gravesend, England. She is
buried at St. George's Parish Church in Gravesend.>>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mildred COOKE marries William Cecil on Saturday March 21, 1545
Cranmer COOKS right hand on Saturday March 21, 1556
Arthur BROOKE drowns in Greyhound wreck on Saturday March 21, 1562
Gabriel Harvey's epistle to Young on Saturday March 21, 1573
Anthony Van Dyck born in Antwerp on Sunday March 21, 1599
Pocahontas dies at St. George's Gravesend on Friday March 21, 1617
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
John W. Kennedy
> "Surely"?! Why "surely," Art? You evidently know that the mission
> of the Piory of Sion and its Templar and Masonic offshoots is the
> restoration of the Sacred Bloodline to the throne of France, yet you
> gibber about Marcus Aurelius being a "Masonic icon"?! Are you aware
> that Christians were persecuted under Marcus Aurelius, and that the
> Emperor personally disliked them, Art? How, then, could he possibly be
> a "Masonic icon"?! And are you aware that the Sacred Merovingian
> did not lose the throne until 750 C.E., some *six centuries* after the
> death of Marcus Aurelius, whom you proclaim to be a "Masonic icon"?!
> Surely ph...@errors.comedy is a Moronic icon!
Obviously he's talking about the _other_ Masons, who (it is rumored, but
we all know what rumors are) don't like RCism much.
--
John W. Kennedy
Read the remains of Shakespeare's lost play, now annotated!
http://pws.prserv.net/jwkennedy/Double%20Falshood.html
David L. Webb
Weir <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote:
> "David L. Webb" <David....@Dartmouth.edu> wrote in message
> news:<010620021757331742%David....@Dartmouth.edu>...
[...]
> > In other words, you have *no* such evidence, other than the fact
> > that you "think" that's it's a "good bet." Your inability to adduce
> > any evidence is of course exactly what I expected, Art. Are you
> > parodying Elizabeth Weir?
> I wrote an entire post with plenty of evidence linking the
> discovery of a second T. T. dedication in Smith's Generall
> Historie of Virginia to the T. T. dedication in the 1609
> Shakes-Speare Sonnets and I didn't get a bite from you, Webb.
I don't read all your delusional effusions, nor am I particularly
interested in "a second T. T. dedication," as I cannot fathom what you
hallucinate that such a discovery proves or even suggests. Rather, I
am interested in whether you can supply *any* evidence for various
farcical factoids that you've asserted as fact in this forum, among
them
(1) The claim that Southampton was "overly fond of drag," and that he
used to "hang about the theatres hoping to play female roles";
(2) Your preposterous assertion that "shake-scene" was Elizabethan
theatre slang;
(3) Your claim that Poincaré's paper on "non-Euclidean geometry"
(*which one*, for goodness sake?!) contains the original ideas in
Einstein's paper on special relativity;
(4) Your claim that Poincaré formulated relativity theory
geometrically;
(5) Your claim that hyperbolic geometry is the geometry of Minkowski
spacetime,
(6) and countless other hilarious idiocies which you "substantiate" by
the Method of Blatant Assertion (which Peter Groves characterized as
the "rectal extraction" method of adducing evidence).
Evidently, the answer is a resounding "NO"! You cannot supply any such
evidence. Nevertheless, you have not retracted or amended any of these
comic claims. Matters being so, it is plain that you have no interest
in supporting your assertions with pertinent credible evidence, and it
seems likely indeed that you are the latest target of Art's sometimes
caustic parodies of anti-Stratfordian cluelessness.
[...]
David Webb
David L. Webb
<jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> "David L. Webb" wrote:
> > "Surely"?! Why "surely," Art? You evidently know that the mission
> > of the Piory of Sion and its Templar and Masonic offshoots is the
> > restoration of the Sacred Bloodline to the throne of France, yet you
> > gibber about Marcus Aurelius being a "Masonic icon"?! Are you aware
> > that Christians were persecuted under Marcus Aurelius, and that the
> > Emperor personally disliked them, Art? How, then, could he possibly be
> > a "Masonic icon"?! And are you aware that the Sacred Merovingian
> > Bloodline whose restoration is the raison d'être of the Masonic orders
> > did not lose the throne until 750 C.E., some *six centuries* after the
> > death of Marcus Aurelius, whom you proclaim to be a "Masonic icon"?!
> > Surely ph...@errors.comedy is a Moronic icon!
> Obviously he's talking about the _other_ Masons, who (it is rumored, but
> we all know what rumors are) don't like RCism much.
The animus runs the other direction. Men of all vaguely deistic
creeds, including Roman Catholicism, can become Freemasons, as far as
the Lodge is concerned; it is the Church that thinks otherwise, and has
ever since Clement XII's papal condemnation of the order. (In fact,
various Masonic orders were accused of conspiring to bring about the
restoration of the Stewart line, and with it Catholicism, to the throne
of England during the unsuccessful Jacobite risings instigated by
Bonnie Prince Charlie.)
David Webb
John W. Kennedy
> The animus runs the other direction. Men of all vaguely deistic
> creeds, including Roman Catholicism, can become Freemasons, as far as
> the Lodge is concerned; it is the Church that thinks otherwise, and has
> ever since Clement XII's papal condemnation of the order.
I have had Masonic literature deposited on my doorstep that seems to
indicate otherwise. (And the allegory of "The Magic Flute" seems to me
rather ham-handedly obvious in this respect.)