CALLING ADAM SELZER!
Art Neuendorffer
> > > >
> > > > > I'm sure David is as thrilled as I am at such ENCOMIA (sic).
>
> > > > ENCOMIA? Are you sure you are a LINGUIST!??
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ENCOMIUM, n.; pl. {ENCOMIUMS}.
> > > > [NL., fr. Gr. ? (a song) chanted in a Bacchic festival in praise
> > > > of the god; ? in + ? a jovial festivity, revel. See {Comedy}.]
>
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > > I suggest that you consult the OED, Art; if you can get someone
> > > to show you how to do so, you will find the following:
> > >
> > > "Pl. ENCOMIUMS; also (now rarely) ENCOMIA."
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > Only incompetent literary historians have ever used "ENCOMIA"
> >
> > (One might just as well say "OCTOPI")
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> Plainly, you *still* have not figured out how to use the OED, Art;
> if you had consulted it, you would have found:
>
> "Plural OCTOPUSES, OCTOPI, (rare) octopodes"
----------------------------------------------------------------
<<Fowler states that "the only acceptable plural in English is OCTOPUSES",
and that OCTOPI is misconceived and octopodes pedantic. OCTOPI derives
If you don't believe Fowler, just ask Adam Selzer.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> I realize that you don't even know English, let alone Latin, Greek,
> etc., so you are blithely unaware that some words derived from Latin
> have seVERal acceptable plural forms in use in English; one form more
> may be in keeping with Latin plural formations and another form may be
> more compatible with English.
It's derived from the Greek "OKTOPOUS" (as is "ENKOMION").
However, you may use the PIG Latin "OCTOPUSAY" if you wish, 007.
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> For example, in my scientific work, the
> word "SPECTRUM" is in constant use; many of my professional colleagues
> use the common plural "SPECTRA," but one also sees "SPECTRUMS," and the
> OED accepts the latter as well.
Now you're talking real LATIN, 007:
----------------------------------------------------------------
SPECTRE, n. [F. SPECTRE, fr. L. SPECTRUM an appearance, image, SPECTER,
apparition; a ghost; a PHANTOM [TOM REEDY?]
.
The ghosts of traitors from the bridge descend,
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/villains/spectre.php3?t=frwl&s=frwl
The word SPECTRE stands for SPecial Executor for Counter-Intelligence,
Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion. The powerful and ruthless criminal
organisation is dedicated to gaining wealth and power though criminal
schemes the involve extortion, instigation of major wars to gain power and
acts of revenge. Throughout several missions, Bond has been dedicated to the
destruction of SPECTRE and it's leader, Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
SPECTRE consists of members who have defected from major criminal
organisations, SPECTRE's major agents consist of some of world's most
ingenious criminal minds. Agents are identified either by wearing a silver
ring with a black OCTOPUS engraved on it or a tattoo of a red Chinese Tong
symbol which is a box with a spike through the middle. The following is a
list of thee known members of SPECTRE:
Ersnt Stavro Blofeld - Number 1
Emilio Largo - Number 2
Rosa Klebb - Number 3
Dr No
Kronsteen - Number 5
Donald "Red" Grant
Fiona Volpe
Count Lippe
Mr. Osato
Mr. Wint
MR. KID!!!!
Helga Brandt - Number 11
--------------------------------------------------------------------
SPECTRE has been responsible for five criminal schemes:
1) Firstly the From Russia With Love mission, SPECTRE planned an elaborate
plot where a bait was used, being a beautiful woman by the name of Tatiana
Romonava, Bond was seduced by Tatiana and together they stole the Lektor
decoder. Tatiana being a CIPHER expert thought she was giving information
about Bond to SMERSH, however SPECTRE intended to have Bond
2) In the Thunderball mission SPECTRE stole two atomic bombs from a NATO
Vulcan bomber and demanded a ransom from the British government of
£100,000,000 otherwise the bombs would be detonated in a chosen major
3) The You Only Live Twice mission was SPECTRE's greed for world power,
the USA. SPECTRE in partnership with Red China developed a way of capturing
space vessels, firstly capturing a US vessel, then a Soviet vessel the end
of the mission was almost the cause of nuclear war between
4) The On Her Majesty's Secret Service mission, SPECTRE attempted another
extortion on the British government, by threatening to wipe out the entire
world population using a deadly virus, unless his demands were met.
5) In the Diamonds are ForEVER mission, SPECTRE used diamond smugglers
ground target. Towards the end of the mission, SPECTRE began to destroy
nuclear missile subs and silos.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> In short, when foreign words are naturalized into English, they
> generally acquire English-style plurals; for example, the Russian plural
> of the word "balalaika" is "balalaiki," yet in English one would use the
> plural "balalaikas." However, in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived
> words, sometimes the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in
> English -
If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin plural.
(Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> - for example, the plural of "taxon" is "taxa," not "taxons,"
> although one does see the latter in use (but don't worry, Art
> -- the plural of "moron" is definitely "morons")
Moron, n.; Sp. pl. {Morones}. [Sp.] An inferior olive size having
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> the plural of "topos" is "topoi,"
This is a contentious topic:
<<A topos (plural: topoi or toposes - this is a contentious topic) is a type
of category which allows the formulation of all of mathematics inside it. >>
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> the plural of "locus" is "loci," the plural of "rectrix" is
> "rectrices," the plural of "remex" is "remiges," the plural of "axis" is
> "axes," the plural of "ovum" is "ova," the plural of "datum" is "data,"
> etc. -- while for some words both a Latin-style plural *and* an
> English-style plural are in use in English: "ENCOMIUM," "OCTOPUS,"
> "focus," "referendum," and "SPECTRUM" are examples of the latter.
"Focus," "referendum," & "SPECTRUM" are examples of Latin words
"ENCOMIUM" & "OCTOPUS" are examples of English words derived from Greek.
Nuff, said.
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> Likewise, the word "lemma" has two
> plural forms in English, "lemmas" and "lemmata."
The false lemma that "ENCOMIUM" & "OCTOPUS" have anything to do with Latin
is a common misconception of incompetent literary historians.
Art Neuendorffer
P.S., Anna Lemma is also a shapely Tolstoy CIPHER expert
Adam Selzer
about different species. If you see two of them swimming towards you,
you can just say "here comes a couple of octopus."
Octopi, which I guess would come from octo, meaning 8, and pi, meaning
3.1415, would be a number; if I remember my algebra, two numbers next to
each other in an equation should be multiplied, so octopi means "a
number close to, but not exactly, 25."
Then again, everytime I argue about this with someone, I lose, because
the dictionary they bring out invariably lists "octopi" as one of the
plurals you can use. If you actually say "octopuses" in conversation,
someone will almost always tell you that it's supposed to be octopi.
English is a fluid language, after all. The OED says you can split
infinitives now. You just can't win.
For those wondering what the hell this has to do with me, Art listened
to a recording of a radio interview I did a couple of years ago, in
which I talked about the plural form of octopus, made a few jokes
involving Debbie Reynolds songs, played the most Halloweeny songs in my
repertoire (that being the theme of the show that week), and generally
had a good time acting like a pompous ass. THis board was about the last
place I ever expected to have anything like that quoted back at me, but,
now that I think about it, that was probably the very height of foolishness.
Adam (who just sold an article about the missing apostrophe in
"Starbucks Coffee")
Art Neuendorffer wrote:
> > > > > "David Kathman" <dj...@ix.netcom.com
> <mailto:dj...@ix.netcom.com>> wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure David is as thrilled as I am at such *ENCOMIA* (sic).
> >
> > > > > *ENCOMIA*? Are you sure you are a LINGUIST!??
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > *ENCOMIUM*, n.; pl. {*ENCOMIUMS*}.
> > > > > [NL., fr. Gr. ? (a song) chanted in a Bacchic festival in praise
> > > > > of the god; ? in + ? a jovial festivity, revel. See {Comedy}.]
> >
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
> > >
> > > > I suggest that you consult the OED, Art; if you can get someone
> > > > to show you how to do so, you will find the following:
> > > >
> > > > "Pl. *ENCOMIUMS*; also (now rarely) *ENCOMIA*."
>
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net
> <mailto:aneuendor...@comcast.net>>
>
> > > Only incompetent literary historians have ever used "*ENCOMIA*"
> > >
> > > (One might just as well say "*OCTOPI*")
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > Plainly, you *still* have not figured out how to use the OED, Art;
> > if you had consulted it, you would have found:
> >
> > "Plural *OCTOPUSES*, *OCTOPI*, (rare) octopodes"
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> <<Fowler states that *"the only acceptable plural in English is*
> *OCTOPUSES*",
> and that *OCTOPI* is misconceived and octopodes pedantic. *OCTOPI* derives
> from the mistaken notion that *OCTOPUS* is Latin. But it isn't; it is Greek,
> from *OKTOPOUS*. If the word were Latin, it would be *OCTOPED*
> and the plural *OCTOPEDES*, analogous to centipedes & millipedes.>>
>
> If you don't believe Fowler, just ask Adam Selzer.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > I realize that you don't even know English, let alone Latin, Greek,
> > etc., so you are blithely unaware that some words derived from Latin
> > have seVERal acceptable plural forms in use in English; one form more
> > may be in keeping with Latin plural formations and another form may be
> > more compatible with English.
>
> It's derived from the Greek "*OKTOPOUS*" (as is "*ENKOMION*").
>
> However, you may use the PIG Latin "*OCTOPUSAY*" if you wish, *007*.
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > For example, in my scientific work, the
> > word "*SPECTRUM*" is in constant use; many of my professional colleagues
> > use the common plural "*SPECTRA*," but one also sees "*SPECTRUMS*,"
> and the
> > OED accepts the latter as well.
>
> Now you're talking real LATIN, *007*:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> *SPECTRE*, n. [F. *SPECTRE*, fr. L. *SPECTRUM* an appearance, image,
> *SPECTER*,
> fr. specere to look. See {Spy}.] 1. Something preternaturally visible; an
> apparition; a ghost; a *PHANTOM* [*TOM REEDY?*]
> .
> The ghosts of traitors from the bridge descend,
> With bold fanatic *SPECTERS* to rejoice. --Dryden.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/villains/spectre.php3?t=frwl&s=frwl
> <http://www.mi6.co.uk/sections/villains/spectre.php3?t=frwl&s=frwl>
>
> The word *SPECTRE* stands for *SP*ecial *E*xecutor for
> *C*ounter-Intelligence,
> *T*errorism, *R*evenge and *E*xtortion. The powerful and ruthless criminal
> organisation is dedicated to gaining wealth and power though criminal
> schemes the involve extortion, instigation of major wars to gain power and
> acts of revenge. Throughout several missions, Bond has been dedicated to the
> destruction of *SPECTRE* and it's leader, Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
>
> *SPECTRE* consists of members who have defected from major criminal
> organisations, *SPECTRE*'s major agents consist of some of world's most
> ingenious criminal minds. Agents are identified either by wearing a silver
> ring with a black *OCTOPUS* engraved on it or a tattoo of a red Chinese Tong
> symbol which is a box with a spike through the middle. The following is a
> list of thee known members of *SPECTRE*:
>
> Ersnt Stavro Blofeld - Number 1
> Emilio Largo - Number 2
> Rosa Klebb - Number 3
> Dr No
> Kronsteen - Number 5
> Donald "Red" Grant
> Fiona Volpe
> Count Lippe
> Mr. Osato
> Mr. Wint
> *MR. KID!!!!*
> Helga Brandt - Number 11
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> *SPECTRE* has been responsible for five criminal schemes:
>
> 1) Firstly the From Russia With Love mission, *SPECTRE* planned an
> elaborate
> plot where a bait was used, being a beautiful woman by the name of Tatiana
> Romonava, Bond was seduced by Tatiana and together they stole the Lektor
> decoder. Tatiana being a *CIPHER* expert thought she was giving information
> about Bond to SMERSH, however *SPECTRE* intended to have Bond
> steal the Lektor and deliver it to them unknowingly.
>
> 2) In the Thunderball mission *SPECTRE* stole two atomic bombs from a NATO
> Vulcan bomber and demanded a ransom from the British government of
> £100,000,000 otherwise the bombs would be detonated in a chosen major
> city, this was the most ambitious plot *SPECTRE* has ever undergone.
>
> 3) The You Only Live Twice mission was *SPECTRE*'s greed for world power,
> they intended to start World War III by causing tension between the
> U.S.S.R and
> the USA. *SPECTRE* in partnership with Red China developed a way of
> capturing
> space vessels, firstly capturing a US vessel, then a Soviet vessel the end
> of the mission was almost the cause of nuclear war between
> the U.S.S.R and the USA.
>
> 4) The On Her Majesty's Secret Service mission, *SPECTRE* attempted another
> extortion on the British government, by threatening to wipe out the entire
> world population using a deadly virus, unless his demands were met.
>
> 5) In the Diamonds are For*EVER* mission, *SPECTRE* used diamond smugglers
> to get a large number of diamonds to build a satellite which could
> destroy any
> ground target. Towards the end of the mission, *SPECTRE* began to destroy
> nuclear missile subs and silos.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > In short, when foreign words are naturalized into English, they
> > generally acquire English-style plurals; for example, the Russian plural
> > of the word "balalaika" is "balalaiki," yet in English one would use the
> > plural "balalaikas." However, in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived
> > words, sometimes the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in
> > English -
>
> If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin plural.
>
> (Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
> to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > - for example, the plural of "taxon" is "taxa," not "taxons,"
> > although one does see the latter in use (but don't worry, Art
> > -- the plural of "moron" is definitely "morons")
>
> *Moron*, n.; Sp. pl. {*Morones*}. [Sp.] An inferior olive size having
> a woody pulp and a large clingstone pit, growing in the mountainous
> and high-valley districts around the city of *Moron*, in Spain.
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > the plural of "topos" is "topoi,"
>
> This is a contentious topic:
>
> <<A topos (plural: topoi or toposes - this is a contentious topic) is a type
> of category which allows the formulation of all of mathematics inside it. >>
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > the plural of "locus" is "loci," the plural of "rectrix" is
> > "rectrices," the plural of "remex" is "remiges," the plural of "axis" is
> > "axes," the plural of "ovum" is "ova," the plural of "datum" is "data,"
> > etc. -- while for some words both a Latin-style plural *and* an
> > English-style plural are in use in English: "*ENCOMIUM*," "*OCTOPUS*,"
> > "focus," "referendum," and "*SPECTRUM*" are examples of the latter.
>
> "Focus," "referendum," & "*SPECTRUM*" are examples of Latin words
>
> "*ENCOMIUM*" & "*OCTOPUS*" are examples of English words derived from
> Greek.
>
> Nuff, said.
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu
> <mailto:david....@dartmouth.edu>> wrote
>
> > Likewise, the word "lemma" has two
> > plural forms in English, "lemmas" and "lemmata."
>
> The false lemma that "*ENCOMIUM*" & "*OCTOPUS*" have anything to do
> with Latin
> is a common misconception of incompetent literary historians.
>
> Art Neuendorffer
>
> P.S., Anna Lemma is also a shapely Tolstoy *CIPHER* expert
> who plays the balalaika.
Art Neuendorffer
> Actually, I think "octopuses" is only normally used if you're talking
> about different species. If you see two of them swimming towards you,
> you can just say "here comes a couple of octopus."
I think I personally would say: "Let's get the hell outta here!"
> Octopi, which I guess would come from octo, meaning 8, and pi, meaning
> 3.1415, would be a number; if I remember my algebra, two numbers next to
> each other in an equation should be multiplied, so octopi means "a
> number close to, but not exactly, 25."
"Here comes a number close to, but not exactly, 50; let's get the hell outta
here!"
> Then again, everytime I argue about this with someone, I lose, because
> the dictionary they bring out invariably lists "octopi" as one of the
> plurals you can use. If you actually say "octopuses" in conversation,
> someone will almost always tell you that it's supposed to be octopi.
> English is a fluid language, after all. The OED says you can split
> infinitives now. You just can't win.
I, for one, have lost all faith in humanity!
> For those wondering what the hell this has to do with me, Art listened
> to a recording of a radio interview I did a couple of years ago, in
> which I talked about the plural form of octopus, made a few jokes
> involving Debbie Reynolds songs, played the most Halloweeny songs in my
> repertoire (that being the theme of the show that week), and generally
> had a good time acting like a pompous ass. THis board was about the last
> place I ever expected to have anything like that quoted back at me, but,
> now that I think about it, that was probably the very height of
foolishness.
Cheerleaders of the world UNITE!
> Adam (who just sold an article about
> the missing apostrophe in "Starbucks Coffee")
Debbie Reynolds songs
Shakespeares Sonnets
Finnegans Wake
Apostrophe, n. [(1) L., fr. Gr. ? a turning away, fr. ? to turn away; ? from
+ ? to turn. (2) F., fr. L. apostrophus apostrophe, the turning away or
omitting of a letter, Gr. ?.] 1. (Rhet.) A figure of speech by which the
orator or writer suddenly breaks off from the previous method of his
discourse, and addresses, in the second person, some person or thing, absent
or present; as, Milton's apostrophe to Light at the beginning of the third
book of ``Paradise Lost.''
Hey, Adam, thanks for your support. Art
John W. Kennedy
> Actually, I think "octopuses" is only normally used if you're talking
> about different species. If you see two of them swimming towards you,
> you can just say "here comes a couple of octopus."
> Octopi, which I guess would come from octo, meaning 8, and pi, meaning
> 3.1415, would be a number; if I remember my algebra, two numbers next to
> each other in an equation should be multiplied, so octopi means "a
> number close to, but not exactly, 25."
> Then again, everytime I argue about this with someone, I lose, because
> the dictionary they bring out invariably lists "octopi" as one of the
> plurals you can use. If you actually say "octopuses" in conversation,
> someone will almost always tell you that it's supposed to be octopi.
> English is a fluid language, after all. The OED says you can split
> infinitives now. You just can't win.
It was always correct to split infinitives in English. Any claims made
to the contrary were pretentiousness.
"*Octopi", on the other hand, is the product of pretentiousness, just
like "*virii" and "*ignorami" (though at least a case can be made for
"octopus" being New Latin).
---
John W. Kennedy
"The bright critics assembled in this volume will doubtless show, in
their sophisticated and ingenious new ways, that, just as /Pooh/ is
suffused with humanism, our humanism itself, at this late date, has
become full of /Pooh./"
-- Frederick Crews. "Postmodern Pooh", Preface
Art Neuendorffer
> > Actually, I think "octopuses" is only normally used if you're talking
> > about different species. If you see two of them swimming towards you,
> > you can just say "here comes a couple of octopus."
> > Octopi, which I guess would come from octo, meaning 8, and pi, meaning
> > 3.1415, would be a number; if I remember my algebra, two numbers next to
> > each other in an equation should be multiplied, so octopi means "a
> > number close to, but not exactly, 25."
>
> > Then again, everytime I argue about this with someone, I lose, because
> > the dictionary they bring out invariably lists "octopi" as one of the
> > plurals you can use. If you actually say "octopuses" in conversation,
> > someone will almost always tell you that it's supposed to be octopi.
> > English is a fluid language, after all. The OED says you can split
> > infinitives now. You just can't win.
>
> It was always correct to split infinitives in English.
> Any claims made to the contrary were pretentiousness.
"John W. Kennedy" <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote
> "*Octopi", on the other hand, is the product of pretentiousness,
> just like "*virii" and "*ignorami"
And just like Dave Kathman's "*ENCOMIA"
Art Neuendorffer
Adam Selzer
> It was always correct to split infinitives in English. Any claims made
> to the contrary were pretentiousness.
Really? That's interesting.
Of course, it can be argued that no English is really "incorrect," esp.
when you take things from a linguistic point of view, outside of social
context.
David L. Webb
"Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
(aneuendor...@comicass.nut) wrote:
> > > > > "David Kathman" <dj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > > I'm sure David is as thrilled as I am at such ENCOMIA (sic).
> > > > > ENCOMIA? Are you sure you are a LINGUIST!??
> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > ENCOMIUM, n.; pl. {ENCOMIUMS}.
> > > > > [NL., fr. Gr. ? (a song) chanted in a Bacchic festival in praise
> > > > > of the god; ? in + ? a jovial festivity, revel. See {Comedy}.]
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > >
> > > > I suggest that you consult the OED, Art; if you can get someone
> > > > to show you how to do so, you will find the following:
> > > >
> > > > "Pl. ENCOMIUMS; also (now rarely) ENCOMIA."
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
>
> > > Only incompetent literary historians have ever used "ENCOMIA"
Since when is Isaiah Berlin "incompetent," Art? Because you say so?
But you know as much about the subject as Faker does about Fermat's Last
Theorem, as Elizabeth does about physics, or as Streitz does about fluid
mechanics.
[...]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > I realize that you don't even know English, let alone Latin, Greek,
> > etc., so you are blithely unaware that some words derived from Latin
> > have seVERal acceptable plural forms in use in English; one form more
> > may be in keeping with Latin plural formations and another form may be
> > more compatible with English.
> It's derived from the Greek "OKTOPOUS" (as is "ENKOMION").
Perhaps you prefer Merriam-Webster to the OED, Art:
"Main Entry: en搾o搶i暉m
[...]
Inflected Form(s): plural -mi暉ms or en搾o搶ia"
[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > In short, when foreign words are naturalized into English, they
> > generally acquire English-style plurals; for example, the Russian plural
> > of the word "balalaika" is "balalaiki," yet in English one would use the
> > plural "balalaikas." However, in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived
> > words, sometimes the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in
> > English -
> If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin plural.
First, the word "encomium" came into English from a *Latin* word
derived from Greek. Second, I hate to break the news to you, Art, but
English words that come from other tongues sometimes do and sometimes do
not retain the plural form of their tongue of origin. You should get
someone to check a dictionary for you when you are in doubt about a
word, Art -- it may save you from making an ass of yourself, as you are
doing by pronouncing Isaiah Berlin incompetent.
> (Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
> to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
Did you not even read what I wrote, Art? The plural of the Greek
"taxon" is "taxa." The plural of the Greek "ganglion" is "ganglia."
The plural of the Greek "criterion" is "criteria." The plural of the
Greek "phenomenon" is "phenomena." The plural of the Greek "polyhedron"
is "polyhedra." The plural of the Greek "automaton" is "automata."
Do you begin to perceive a pattern, Art? No, of course you don't.
So tell me, Art -- just what do you think that the Greek plural of the
Greek "enkomion" should be? "Encomiums"?
I wrote in another thread that an international airport would not be
enough in your case, Art, and I suggested that you add a 36-hole golf
course. HoweVER, it seems clear that even that would not suffice; I
suggest that you add a resort hotel to sweeten the deal.
Adam Selzer
Art Neuendorffer
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm sure David is as thrilled as I am at such ENCOMIA (sic).
>
> > > > > > ENCOMIA? Are you sure you are a LINGUIST!??
> > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > ENCOMIUM, n.; pl. {ENCOMIUMS}.
> > > > > > [NL., fr. Gr. ? (a song) chanted in a Bacchic festival in praise
> > > > > > of the god; ? in + ? a jovial festivity, revel. See {Comedy}.]
>
> > > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > > >
> > > > > I suggest that you consult the OED, Art; if you can get someone
> > > > > to show you how to do so, you will find the following:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Pl. ENCOMIUMS; also (now rarely) ENCOMIA."
>
> > > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> >
> > > > Only incompetent literary historians have ever used "ENCOMIA"
> Since when is Isaiah Berlin "incompetent," Art? Because you say so?
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > > I realize that you don't even know English, let alone Latin, Greek,
> > > etc., so you are blithely unaware that some words derived from Latin
> > > have seVERal acceptable plural forms in use in English; one form more
> > > may be in keeping with Latin plural formations and another form
> > > may be more compatible with English.
>
> > It's derived from the Greek "OKTOPOUS" (as is "ENKOMION").
>
> Perhaps you prefer Merriam-Webster to the OED, Art:
>
> [...]
> Inflected Form(s): plural -mi·ums or en·co·mia"
------------------------------------------------------------------
EVERy other enjoyment malice may destroy; EVERy other
------------------------------------------------------------------
I have got enough of the old masters! Brown says he has "shook" them,
though he could not refrain from paying some compliments to the gold lace
The master was so highly elated with these ENCOMIUMS, that he could not
refrain from adding some more of his own. He said, "The present age was not
improved in anything so much as in their puppet-shows; which, by throwing
out PUNCH and his wife Joan, and such idle trumpery, were at last brought to
be a rational entertainment. I remember," said he, "when I first took to the
business, there was a great deal of low stuff that did VERy well to make
folks laugh; but was nEVER calculated to improve the morals of young people,
which certainly ought to be principally aimed at in EVERy puppet-show: for
why may not good and instructive lessons be conveyed this way, as well as
any other? My figures are as big as the life, and they represent the life in
EVERy particular; and I question not but people rise from my little drama as
much improved as they do from the great." "I would by no means degrade the
ingenuity of your profession," answered Jones, "but I should have been glad
to have seen my old acquaintance master PUNCH, for all that; and so far
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mr. Micawber roused me from this reflection, which was blended with a
certain remorseful apprehension of seeing Steerforth himself, by bestowing
many ENCOMIUMS on the absent Littimer as a most respectable fellow,
"But PUNCH, my dear Copperfield," said Mr. Micawber,
------------------------------------------------------
by William Wordsworth
Of the ENCOMIUMS by my Friend pronounced
On humble life, forbid the judging mind
To trust the smiling aspect of this fair
And noiseless commonwealth.
"What needs my Shakspeare for his honoured bones
The labour of an age in piled stones,
Or that his hallowed reliques should be hid
Under a star-ypointing pyramid?
Dear Son of Memory, great Heir of Fame,
What need'st thou such weak witness of thy name?
Thou in our wonder and astonishment
Hast built thyself a livelong monument,
And so sepulchred, in such pomp dost lie,
That kings for such a tomb would wish to die."
------------------------------------------------------
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > > In short, when foreign words are naturalized into English, they
> > > generally acquire English-style plurals; for example, the Russian plural
> > > of the word "balalaika" is "balalaiki," yet in English one would use the
> > > plural "balalaikas." However, in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived
> > > words, sometimes the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in
> > > English -
> > If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin plural.
> derived from Greek. Second, I hate to break the news to you, Art,
> > (Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
> > to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
> "taxon" is "taxa." The plural of the Greek "ganglion" is "ganglia."
> The plural of the Greek "criterion" is "criteria." The plural of the Greek
> "phenomenon" is "phenomena." The plural of the Greek "polyhedron"
> is "polyhedra." The plural of the Greek "automaton" is "automata."
>
> Do you begin to perceive a pattern, Art?
Art Neuendorffer
> Encomia counts in Scrabble.
<<Acceptable words are those words found as primary entries in some chosen
dictionary, and all of their inflected forms. Words that are hyphenated,
capitalized (such as proper nouns), marked as foreign, or appear only as
part of multi-word phrases are not allowed (unless they also appear as
acceptable entries: "Japan" is a proper noun, but the verb "japan"--to
decorate with black enamel or lacquer--is acceptable). Variant spellings,
slang or offensive terms, archaic or obsolete terms, and specialized jargon
words are allowed if they meet all other criteria for acceptability.
"College" level dictionaries are generally used in preference to unabridged
dictionaries. In formal competition, pre-compiled official word lists are
used (usually compiled from combinations of several college dictionaries),
along with an official dictionary for backup. The pre-compiled word lists
generally contain only words of two to eight letters--those most frequently
used in the game. The dictionary is consulted for longer words. There are
two popular competition word lists: the North American 1998 Official Club
and Tournament Word List (or for school use the bowdlerized Official
Scrabble Players Dictionary, Third Edition (OSPD3)) and the British Official
Scrabble Words. North American competitions favor Merriam-Webster's
Collegiate Dictionary for longer words, while the British use Chambers
Dictionary. The OSPD3 available in bookstores differs from the official
competition word list in that it is marketed for "home and school" use, and
has been expurgated of many words judged offensive. These are still legal in
competition. Many international competitions use both the British and
American word lists. The union of the two lists is commonly referred to as
SOWPODS, derived from an anagram of OSPD+OSW. Many countries in the English
Scrabble-playing world now use SOWPODS (published in the UK as Official
Scrabble Words International, or OSWI) for their own tournaments year round,
with the United States, Canada, Israel, and Thailand being notable
exceptions.>>
--------------------------
SCRABBLE
CLABBERS
--------------------------
Clabbers is a game played by tournament Scrabble players for fun, or
occasionally at Scrabble variant tournaments. Its rules are identical to
that of Scrabble except that the letters in a word do not need to be placed
in the correct order. If a word is challenged, the player who played the
word must then name an acceptable word that anagrams to the tiles played.
For example, a player wanting to maximize his score for the word FYTTE
(variant of fit, a section of a poem) might choose to play it hooking the Y
onto the end of the existing word AEGRZ (GAZER), making the word AGRYZE (a
variant of agrise "shudder". Both AGRYZE and AGRISE are only legal in play
outside of North America/Israel) and spelling it ETYTF in order to place the
F on a premium square.
David L. Webb
"Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
(aneuendor...@comicass.nut) wrote:
> > > > > > > "David Kathman" <dj...@ix.netcom.com> wrote
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm sure David is as thrilled as I am at such ENCOMIA (sic).
> > > > > > > ENCOMIA? Are you sure you are a LINGUIST!??
> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > > > ENCOMIUM, n.; pl. {ENCOMIUMS}.
> > > > > > > [NL., fr. Gr. ? (a song) chanted in a Bacchic festival in praise
> > > > > > > of the god; ? in + ? a jovial festivity, revel. See {Comedy}.]
> > > > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > > I suggest that you consult the OED, Art; if you can get someone
> > > > > > to show you how to do so, you will find the following:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Pl. ENCOMIUMS; also (now rarely) ENCOMIA."
> > > > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > > > Only incompetent literary historians have ever used "ENCOMIA"
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > Since when is Isaiah Berlin "incompetent," Art? Because you say so?
> Because he used "ENCOMIA"
> (and he is probably also a Strat.)
Huh? What does being a "Strat" have to do with it? We have seen
just how competent many anti-Stratfordians -- you, Streitz, Elizabeth
Weird, Faker, etc. -- are in the use of English. But if you think that
Isaiah Berlin, one of the great men of letters of the twentieth century,
is "incompetent," then to put it bluntly, you are about as competent in
the field as Elizabeth Weird is in physics or Faker is in planetary
science, Art.
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > >
> > > > I realize that you don't even know English, let alone Latin, Greek,
> > > > etc., so you are blithely unaware that some words derived from Latin
> > > > have seVERal acceptable plural forms in use in English; one form more
> > > > may be in keeping with Latin plural formations and another form
> > > > may be more compatible with English.
> > > It's derived from the Greek "OKTOPOUS" (as is "ENKOMION").
> > Perhaps you prefer Merriam-Webster to the OED, Art:
> >
> > "Main Entry: en·co·mi·um
> > [...]
> > Inflected Form(s): plural -mi·ums or en·co·mia"
> I prefer: Irving, Johnson, Twain, Fielding, Dickens, & Wordsworth:
Your preferences are irrelevant, Art; as we have seen, you simply
have not read enough English to have any credibility whateVER as an
arbiter of English grammar, usage, or orthography.
[...]
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > >
> > > > In short, when foreign words are naturalized into English, they
> > > > generally acquire English-style plurals; for example, the Russian
> > > > plural
> > > > of the word "balalaika" is "balalaiki," yet in English one would use
> > > > the
> > > > plural "balalaikas." However, in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived
> > > > words, sometimes the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in
> > > > English -
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
>
> > > If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin plural.
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > First, the word "encomium" came into English from a *Latin* word
> > derived from Greek. Second, I hate to break the news to you, Art,
> > but English words that come from other tongues sometimes do and
> > sometimes do not retain the plural form of their tongue of origin.
> The Latin tongue is not the origin nor the 1589 english word ENCOMIUM.
The OED states that Latin is indeed the tongue from which the word
entered English, as do other authoritative etymological references,
several of which I have already quoted for you, Art. Indeed, if the
word had been borrowed directly from Greek, it would in all likelihood
have retained its "-on" ending, as did the Greek borrowings "taxon,"
"ganglion," "phenomenon," "criterion," "polyhedron," "automaton," etc.
That you cannot read either the OED etymology or the others that I
quoted does not alter the fact that etymological authorities agree that
the word entered English via Latin.
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
>
> > > (Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
> > > to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > Did you not even read what I wrote, Art? The plural of the Greek
> > "taxon" is "taxa." The plural of the Greek "ganglion" is "ganglia."
> > The plural of the Greek "criterion" is "criteria." The plural of the Greek
> > "phenomenon" is "phenomena." The plural of the Greek "polyhedron"
> > is "polyhedra." The plural of the Greek "automaton" is "automata."
> >
> > Do you begin to perceive a pattern, Art?
> Patterns! Why that's my specialty, Dave!
You didn't answer the question, Art. Do you think that the plural of
"phenomenon" is "phenomenons"? Do you think that the plural of
"criterion" is "criterions"? Do you think that the plural of
"polyhedron" is "polyhedrons"? Do you think that the plural of
"ganglion" is "ganglions," Art? Yes or no, Art?
Well, perhaps you do -- you're proving yourself to be a far more
clueless cretin than even I would have eVER suspected!
> All the PSEUDO-scholars who use "ENCOMIA"
> are 20th century literary historians.
What about Benjamin Jowett, Art? His translation of Plato is
regarded as outstanding both as an exemplar of classical scholarship and
as a work of English literature. Yet his dates are 18171893, Art.
Yes, I know -- you think that that's the twentieth century, like so many
other clueless anti-Stratfordians. Here's a quote from Jowett that
might interest you:
"Many tales, and praises, and encomia of ancient famous men."
I can only shake my head in amazement at your ability to make such a
priceless ass of yourself, Art. But perhaps you're jealous of the
attention that Elizabeth Weird's comic inability to read has been
garnering her of late, and you have decided to usurp her place in the
spotlight yourself. And I can only repeat what I said earlier: the
spectacle of someone whose native tongue is not English and who thinks
that Virgil predated Herodotus, that Anne Hathaway was Shakespeare's
mother, that Aleksandr Nevskii was "tsar," that the number nineteen is
remarkable in that it is both the sum of two consecutive integers and
the difference of their squares, and that Martin Gardner eschews the use
of words like "crank" and "crackpot" venturing to gauge the competence
of *real* literary historians is about as entertaining a spectacle as
one could eVER hope to witness!
Elizabeth
Isaiah Berlin, one of the great men of letters of the twentieth
century,
is "incompetent," then to put it bluntly, you are about as competent in
the field as Elizabeth Weird is in physics or Faker is in planetary
science, Art."
You're just jealous, Webb, because I have curiosity and you do not. I
don't have to know the mathematics of physics, I only have to see
through its bad rhetoric and bad logic. Bacon warned about doing
physics with mathematics. I'm only glad Bacon didn't live long enough
to know about the 70,000 metric tons of nuclear waste with no
infrastructure in place to deal with it. That's what happens when you
divorce science from words. Words bear etymological histories,
experience, morality. Math is irrational.
I agree on Berlin, but he was more than a great man of letters, he was
one of those thinkers that thrill you.
And would you please stop using the propaganda devise of 'association?'
Where did you take ROTC, Webb? With the
Moussad?
Fondly,
Elizabeth
David L. Webb
"Elizabeth" <elizabe...@mail.com> wrote:
> Webb wrote: "But if you think that
> Isaiah Berlin, one of the great men of letters of the twentieth
> century,
> is "incompetent," then to put it bluntly, you are about as competent in
>
> the field as Elizabeth Weird is in physics or Faker is in planetary
> science, Art."
>
> You're just jealous, Webb, because I have curiosity and you do not.
You're curious, all right -- but not in the sense that you think.
> I
> don't have to know the mathematics of physics,
It would be fortunate for you if that were the case, since you seem
doomed to a life of scientific illiteracy.
> I only have to see
> through its bad rhetoric and bad logic.
"Bad rhetoric"? And to what "bad logic" do you refer? Please be
specific.
> Bacon warned about doing
> physics with mathematics. I'm only glad Bacon didn't live long enough
> to know about the 70,000 metric tons of nuclear waste with no
> infrastructure in place to deal with it.
You are confusing physics with politics. But both words begin with
"p", so I suppose that that's pretty close for you.
> That's what happens when you
> divorce science from words. Words bear etymological histories,
> experience, morality. Math is irrational.
Don't disclose the secrets of the Pythagoreans.
> I agree on Berlin, but he was more than a great man of letters, he was
> one of those thinkers that thrill you.
>
> And would you please stop using the propaganda devise [sic]
> of 'association?'
What "devise" do you have in mind?
> Where did you take ROTC, Webb?
I never took ROTC, but I can find all the ROT I could ever want in
h.l.a.s., largely by making sure that I read your posts.
> With the
> Moussad [sic]?
Is that some sort of Lynne Kositsky fan club?
Art Neuendorffer
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure David is as thrilled as I am at such ENCOMIA (sic).
>
>>>>>>>> ENCOMIA? Are you sure you are a LINGUIST!??
>>>>>>>>---------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> [NL., fr. Gr. ? (a song) chanted in a Bacchic festival in praise
>>>>>>>> of the god; ? in + ? a jovial festivity, revel. See {Comedy}.]
>
>>>>>> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > > > > >
>>>>>>> I suggest that you consult the OED, Art; if you can get someone
>>>>>>> to show you how to do so, you will find the following:
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> "Pl. ENCOMIUMS; also (now rarely) ENCOMIA."
>
>>>>> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > > >
>>>>>> Only incompetent literary historians have ever used "ENCOMIA"
>
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > > Since when is Isaiah Berlin "incompetent," Art? Because you say
so?
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > Because he used "ENCOMIA"
> > (and he is probably also a Strat.)
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> Huh? What does being a "Strat" have to do with it? We have seen
> just how competent many anti-Stratfordians -- you, Streitz, Elizabeth
> Weird, Faker, etc. -- are in the use of English.
Being a "Strat" is a sufficient though not necessary condition
for being deemed incompetent.
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > > Perhaps you prefer Merriam-Webster to the OED, Art:
> > >
> > > "Main Entry: en·co·mi·um
> > > [...]
> > > Inflected Form(s): plural -mi·ums or en·co·mia"
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > I prefer: Irving, Johnson, Twain, Fielding, Dickens, & Wordsworth:
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> Your preferences are irrelevant, Art; as we have seen, you simply
> have not read enough English to have any credibility whateVER
> as an arbiter of English grammar, usage, or orthography.
I sometimes use Orthographic Projections
(and I have planted a number of trees.)
> > > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > > >
> > > > > in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived words, sometimes
> > > > > the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in English -
>
> > > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> >
> > > > If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin
plural.
>
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > > First, the word "encomium" came into English from a *Latin* word
> > > derived from Greek. Second, I hate to break the news to you, Art,
> > > but English words that come from other tongues sometimes do and
> > > sometimes do not retain the plural form of their tongue of origin.
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > The Latin tongue is not the origin nor the 1589 english word ENCOMIUM.
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> That you cannot read either the OED etymology or the others that I
> quoted does not alter the fact that etymological authorities agree that
> the word entered English via Latin.
"L.L. Late Latin, the literary Latin language
as spoken and written c.300-c.700."
"1589, from L.L. encomium, from Gk. enkomion (epos) 'laudatory (ode)
"1589" IS NOT "c.300-c.700"!!!!
> > > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> >
> > > > (Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
> > > > to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
>
> > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > > Did you not even read what I wrote, Art? The plural of the Greek
> > > "taxon" is "taxa." The plural of the Greek "ganglion" is "ganglia."
> > > The plural of the Greek "criterion" is "criteria." The plural of the
Greek
> > > "phenomenon" is "phenomena." The plural of the Greek "polyhedron"
> > > is "polyhedra." The plural of the Greek "automaton" is "automata."
> > >
> > > Do you begin to perceive a pattern, Art?
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > Patterns! Why that's my specialty, Dave!
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> You didn't answer the question, Art.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
_GORGIAS_ by Plato (370 BC)
translated by Benjamin Jowett
Socates:
Only to think, my friend, that having come on a visit to Athens,
which is the most free-spoken state in Hellas, you when you got there,
and you alone, should be deprived of the power of speech-that would be
hard indeed. But then consider my case:-shall not I be very hardly used,
if, when you are making a long oration, and refusing to answer what you
are asked, I am compelled to stay and listen to you, and may not go
away? I say rather, if you have a real interest in the argument, or,
to repeat my former expression, have any desire to set it on its legs,
take back any statement which you please; and in your turn ask and
answer, like myself and Gorgias-refute and be refuted: for I suppose
that you would claim to know what Gorgias knows-would you not?
----------------------------------------------------------------
> Do you think that the plural of "phenomenon" is "phenomenons"?
Phenomenon, n.; pl. {Phenomena}. [L. phaenomenon, Gr. faino`menon,
fr. fai`nesqai to appear, fai`nein to show. See {Phantom}.]
Phantom, n. [OE. fantome, fantosme, fantesme, OF. fant[^o]me, fr.
L. phantasma, Gr. ?, fr. ? to show. cf. {Pha["e]ton}.] Tom Reedy
I don't know how we can have a plural of "The Phantom"
unless Tom Reedy's son relents.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> Well, perhaps you do -- you're proving yourself to be a far more
> clueless cretin than even I would have eVER suspected!
> "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > All the PSEUDO-scholars who use "ENCOMIA"
> > are 20th century literary historians.
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> What about Benjamin Jowett, Art? His translation of Plato is
> regarded as outstanding both as an exemplar of classical scholarship
> and as a work of English literature. Yet his dates are 1817-1893, Art.
A Templar of classical scholarship?
"David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> Here's a quote from Jowett that might interest you:
> "Many tales, and praises, and encomia of ancient famous men."
--------------------------------------------------------
April 15, 1452, Leonardo da Vinci born.
April 15, 1569, Joan Shakspere, christened.
April 15, 1684, Catherine I (not the "Great"), of Russia, born.
April 15, 1741, Colonial painter Charles Willson Peale born.
In addition to George Washington, he did portraits of many
celebrities on both sides of the Atlantic.
April 15, 1770, Joseph Priestley discovered the eraser.
April 15, 1800, James Ross, North Magnetic Pole discoverer, born.
April 15, 1802, William & Dorothy Wordsworth were walking
near Grasmere and saw the field of daffodils
=> "I wandered lonely as a cloud."
April 15, 1817, 1st American Deaf school opened in Hartford, Conn.
Chancellor of Oxford, Dr. Benjamin Jowett, born same day:
"My name is Dr. Benjamin Jowett,
and if it's knowledge, I know it.
I am chancellor of this college,
And if I don't know it, it ain't knowledge."
Young Pre-Raphaelite painters were painting the walls of the student
union in Oxford in the 1860s with murals of the Arthurian legends.
(The paintings have since faded.) Dr. Jowett came up to D.G. Rossetti,
the chief painter, and asked, "What would they have done with
the Holy Grail if they had found it?"
April 15, 1843, Anglo-American writer Henry James born in New York.
April 15, 1850, San Francisco incorporated.
April 15, 1860, 1st Pony Express rider arrived in San Francisco.
April 15, 1878, Harley Proctor perfected floating soap, Ivory Soap.
April 15, 1888, Matthew Arnold, the Victorian whose poem "Dover Beach"
best captured the intellectual skepticism that marked the latter part
of the 19th century, died in Liverpool while performing his duties
as a public school inspector.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
David L. Webb
"Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
(aneuendor...@comicass.nut) wrote:
It isn't sufficient -- but as you and your coreligionists obliglingly
demonstrate, it *certainly* is not necessary!
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > > > Perhaps you prefer Merriam-Webster to the OED, Art:
> > > >
> > > > "Main Entry: en·co·mi·um
> > > > [...]
> > > > Inflected Form(s): plural -mi·ums or en·co·mia"
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
>
> > > I prefer: Irving, Johnson, Twain, Fielding, Dickens, & Wordsworth:
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > Your preferences are irrelevant, Art; as we have seen, you simply
> > have not read enough English to have any credibility whateVER
> > as an arbiter of English grammar, usage, or orthography.
> I sometimes use Orthographic Projections
> (and I have planted a number of trees.)
Orthographic projections are about as close to a middle school-level
command of English orthography as you will eVER possess, Art.
> > > > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > > > >
> > > > > > in the case of Latin- and Greek-derived words, sometimes
> > > > > > the Latin plural or the Greek plural is still used in English -
> > > > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > > > If it is derived from the Greek then one shouldn't use a Latin
> plural.
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > >
> > > > First, the word "encomium" came into English from a *Latin* word
> > > > derived from Greek. Second, I hate to break the news to you, Art,
> > > > but English words that come from other tongues sometimes do and
> > > > sometimes do not retain the plural form of their tongue of origin.
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
>
> > > The Latin tongue is not the origin nor the 1589 english word ENCOMIUM.
>
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > That you cannot read either the OED etymology or the others that I
> > quoted does not alter the fact that etymological authorities agree that
> > the word entered English via Latin.
> "L.L. Late Latin, the literary Latin language
> as spoken and written c.300-c.700."
>
> "1589, from L.L. encomium, from Gk. enkomion (epos) 'laudatory (ode)
>
> "1589" IS NOT "c.300-c.700"!!!!
Once again I must exhort to learn to read, Art -- not that my
exhortation will do any good. The language that was written *and
spoken* until around 700 continued to be *written* much later -- yes,
Art, I know that it is news to you that Latin was still a widely used
*written* language in 1589; I have no doubt that you have neVER heard of
Medieval Latin. I repeat the OED's etymology for your edification, in
the hope that you will get one of the orderlies who regularly visit your
padded dwelling to read it to you:
"a. L. enco~mium , ad. Gr. () eulogy."
Hint for an illiterate moron: look at the OED's table of abbreviations.
You will find that "a. L. enco~mium" is an abbreviation of
"a[dopted from] L[atin] enco~mium"
-- that is, you will find that if you can find a cooperative orderly.
The word entered the English language via Latin, *not* via Greek;
indeed, if it had been borrowed directly from Greek, one would expect to
find the word "encomion," with its Greek ending preserved, as in the
cases of "ganglion," "polyhedron," "automaton," "criterion," "taxon,"
"phenomenon," and many other words that are utterly unfamiliar to you.
> > > > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
> > >
> > > > > (Only incompetent literary historians who are pretending
> > > > > to sound sophisticated engage in this practice.)
> > > "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> > >
> > > > Did you not even read what I wrote, Art? The plural of the Greek
> > > > "taxon" is "taxa." The plural of the Greek "ganglion" is "ganglia."
> > > > The plural of the Greek "criterion" is "criteria." The plural of the
> Greek
> > > > "phenomenon" is "phenomena." The plural of the Greek "polyhedron"
> > > > is "polyhedra." The plural of the Greek "automaton" is "automata."
> > > >
> > > > Do you begin to perceive a pattern, Art?
> > "Art Neuendorffer" <aneuendor...@comcast.net>
>
> > > Patterns! Why that's my specialty, Dave!
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > You didn't answer the question, Art.
Answer the question, Art: if you think that English words derived
from Greek should have Greek plurals, then just what do you think that
the plural of "enkomion" should be? Hint: The plural of "phenomenon" is
"phenomena." The plural of "automaton" is "automata." The plural of
"polyhedron" is "polyhedra." The plural of "criterion" is "criteria."
[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
> > Do you think that the plural of "phenomenon" is "phenomenons"?
> Phenomenon, n.; pl. {Phenomena}. [L. phaenomenon, Gr. faino`menon,
> fr. fai`nesqai to appear, fai`nein to show. See {Phantom}.]
[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
Answer the question, Art: Do you think that the plural of
"phenomenon" is "phenomenons"?
[...]
> > > All the PSEUDO-scholars who use "ENCOMIA"
> > > are 20th century literary historians.
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
> >
> > What about Benjamin Jowett, Art? His translation of Plato is
> > regarded as outstanding both as an exemplar of classical scholarship
> > and as a work of English literature. Yet his dates are 1817-1893, Art.
> A Templar of classical scholarship?
Once again, I exhort you to learn to read, Art -- "exemplar" is not
the same word as "Templar," although I concede that in expecting you to
be able to distinguish the two, I may be oVERly exacting; it would be
about like expecting you to be able to distinguish a celebrated Yale
historian with an industrial plant manager a quarter century younger.
> "David L. Webb" <david....@dartmouth.edu> wrote
>
> > Here's a quote from Jowett that might interest you:
>
> > "Many tales, and praises, and encomia of ancient famous men."
[Lunatic logorrhea snipped]
Answer the question, Art -- do you really think that 1817-1893 is the
twentieth century? You said, and I quote VERbatim,
"All the PSEUDO-scholars who use 'ENCOMIA' are 20th century literary
historians."
This exchange has been quite revealing, Art -- I regret having called
you a moron. Indeed, the term was in use by psychologists for someone
with an I.Q. between 50 and 70; since this thread demonstrates that you
are not even into the double digits, I was being oVERly charitable.