Did Oxford know Thomas Nash? - it seems he did.
Maev
Did Oxford know Thomas Nash? - it seems he did.
Re a thread in "Forest of Arden",
there is apparently some proof of this.
_________________________________________________________
(quote, excerpts)
16. "I would speak in commendation of your hospitalitie likewise, but
that it is chronicled in the Archdeacon's Court, and the fruits it
brought forth (as I guess) are of age to speak for themselves."
As previously noted, this passage, beginning with the words: "Yea, you
have been such an infinite Maecenas". . . and ending with the
words . . . "worthie to be registered in red letters". . . was changed
after the first printing of Strange News. Nash was evidently ordered
to re-cast his remarks in a hurry, and for good and sufficient reason.
He had gone too far in referring to a little unpleasantness in which
Lord Oxford had figured with a certain Mrs. Juliana Penn during the
winter of 1590-91, together with the Earl's proteges, Thomas
Churchyard, Nash himself and one other "decayed Student"—evidently
Lyly or Robert Greene.
The documentation relating to this diverting contre-temps has never
before been assembled. It may be found in Ward's Seventeenth Earl of
Oxford (pp. 301-03); in Harvey's Four Letters (Bodley Head Quarto Ed.,
p. 49) in that portion of Strange News now under consideration and in
McKerrow's edition of Nash's collected works, beginning at Vol. III,
p. 309.
The episode as it can be realistically recreated from these sources
deserves special attention. It throws light upon the precarious
conditions under which important literary figures of the Shakespearean
Age lived. More than that, this clear-cut testimony from principals
involved, should convince the most confirmed skeptic that the "Gentle
Master William" who is rallied by Nash on the hazardous quality of his
"hospitalitie" could not be any one else but Lord Oxford.
Here is a brief of the little drama:
Toward the end of the year 1590, Thomas Churchyard, the aged soldier-
poet and author of the well-liked play, Shore's Wife, who had lived
under the patronage of Lord Oxford, off and on, since the 1560's had
taken furnished rooms in a house in St. Peter's Hill, London, for
himself and other writers, at Oxford's orders. St. Peter's Hill was
the first street east of Paul's Chain, bounded on the north by
Knightrider Street and on the south by upper Thames Street.
The residence that Oxford had selected for his literary retainers was
owned by the mother of Michael Hicks [Not Hicks' mother-in-law, as
Capt. Ward first thought.] (secretary to the Earl's father-in-law,
Lord Burghley).
This Lady, née Juliana Arthur, was then known as Mrs. Juliana Penn.
She appears to have been a wide-awake woman of affairs, evidently in
her early sixties. Dr. Mark Eccles in Sisson's Thomas Lodge and Other
Elizabethans, says that the house in St. Peter's Hill had once
belonged to the Abbott of St. Mary's in York, later divided into two
properties, one of which was Mrs. Penn's in 1590. Subsequently, when
Sir George Buc became Master of the Revels, he took over the
place for the conduct of his office. It was conveniently near to the
Blackfriars Theatre and to the Wardrobe, Eccles notes. A few doors
away also stood St. Bennett's Church, the musical chimes of which
Shakespeare describes so artfully in Twelfth Night.
17. "you kept three maids together in your house a long time."
In the second edition of The Epistle this phrase is changed to. . .
"three decayed Students you kept attending upon you a long time." Very
likely Nash made the substitution to avoid complications with Oxford's
new wife, Elizabeth Trentham of the Queen's Household, to whom he had
been quietly married shortly after the row with Mrs. Penn.
As previously noted, the "three decayed Students" seem to have been
Churchyard, Nash and Lyly or Greene.
Incidentally, it is significant to learn from Prof. McKerrow that in
issues of Strange News subsequent to the first edition, The Epistle
Dedicatorie was printed in very small type—making it difficult to
decipher. In other editions it was dropped altogether. The reasons for
these changes are obvious.
So here we have in the episode involving Lord Oxford's efforts to
provide board and lodging for his "men" in Mrs. Penn's house during
the cold months of 1590-91, positive, first-hand evidence that Thomas
Nash was a member of the mysterious poet-nobleman's intimate circle.
Because the young writer suffered considerable inconvenience through
accepting the Earl's well-intentioned "hospitalitie," he could not
resist the temptation to rally Oxford on the affair in the dedication
of Strange News. At the same time, Nash admires the great comedian
whole-heartedly and understands the reasons why "Gentle Master
William's" good will outruns his means. Nevertheless, Tom's
indiscretion here had an immediate effect upon Lord Oxford's future
activities in the world of Elizabethan letters. Strange News was
published early in 1593.
Meanwhile, Nash was obliged to seek the protection of new patrons in
the persons of Sir George Carey—later Lord Chamberlain of the Royal
Household—and his daughter, the Lady Elizabeth Carey.
(from
New Milestone in Shakespeare Research
Contemporary Proof that the Poet Earl of Oxford's
Literary Nickname Was "Gentle Master William"
Copyright 1944 by Charles Wisner Barrell
First published in The Shakespeare Fellowship Quarterly, October
1944.)
http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/library/barrell/21-40/24milestone2.htm#1
Maev
>
> Did Oxford know Thomas Nash? - it seems he did.
>
> Re a thread in "Forest of Arden",
http://groups.google.com/group/ardenmanagers/msg/9a0dceb7a18a68c8
http://groups.google.com/group/ardenmanagers/browse_thread/thread/837885c981f502a7#
>
> there is apparently some proof of this.
>
> _________________________________________________________
> The residence that Oxford had selected for his literary retainers was
> owned by the mother of Michael Hicks [Not Hicks' mother-in-law, as
> Capt. Ward first thought.] (secretary to the Earl's father-in-law,
> Lord Burghley).
>
> This Lady, née Juliana Arthur, was then known as Mrs. Juliana Penn.
````````````````````````````
Juliana Arthur? She shares the second name with Kit Marlowe's mother,
Katherine Arthur.
I suspect it is not a frequently found name.
They may well be of the same family.
___________________________________________________________________________________
> http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/library/barrell/21-40/24mileston...
Maev
_________________________________________________________
> > The residence that Oxford had selected for his literary retainers was
> > owned by the mother of Michael Hicks [Not Hicks' mother-in-law, as
> > Capt. Ward first thought.] (secretary to the Earl's father-in-law,
> > Lord Burghley).
>
> > This Lady, née Juliana Arthur, was then known as Mrs. Juliana Penn.
>
> ````````````````````````````
>
> Juliana Arthur? She shares the second name with Kit Marlowe's mother,
> Katherine Arthur.
>
> I suspect it is not a frequently found name.
> They may well be of the same family.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
JULIAN ARTHUR
Birth: About 1520 Of Chapham, Surrey, England
Death: 1592
Married
ROBERT HICKS
Marriage: About 1542 Of Ruckholt, Low Leyton, Essex, England
____________________________________________
Juliana Arthur
Birth: About 1520 Clapham, Surrey, England
Death: 1592, England
Father: William Arthur
____________________________________________
Juliana Arthur
Birth: About 1520
Married Robert Hicks OR Hyckes
Marriage: About 1542 Chapham, Surrey, England
____________________________________________
Juliana Arthur
Birth: About 1520
Father: William Arthur
Married Anthony Penne
Marriage: About 1541 Of Chapham, Gordano, Surrey, England
____________________________________________
Juliana Arthur
Father: William Arthur
Married
Robert Hicks
_____________
William Arthur
Personal Information
Occupation:
Squire of Clapham
_____________
Robert Hicks
Birth: 1524
Father: Thomas Hicks
Mother: Margaret Atwood
Married Juliana Arthur
Personal Information
Occupation:
Mercer
____________________________________________
CATHERINE ARTHUR
Married JOHN MARLOWE
Marriage: 22 MAY 1561 Saint George The Martyr, Canterbury, Kent,
England
____________________________________________
(maybe of the same family as the other Catherine Arthur)
Katherine Arthur
Christening: 18 Feb 1592
St. Mary,Minster,Thanet,Kent,england
Father: Nicholas Arthur
Married
Robert Cowper
Marriage: 23 Jun 1617
Chislet,Kent,England
____________________________________________
CATHERINE ARTUR
Birth: 1568, London, England
____________________________________________
KATHERINE ARTHURE
Christening: 18 FEB 1592 St Mary, Minster On Thanet, Kent,
England
Father: NICHOLAS ARTHURE
____________________________________________
Mike
> Did Oxford know Thomas Nash? - it seems he did.
>
> Re a thread in "Forest of Arden",
>
> there is apparently some proof of this.
MM:
They must have known each other. They were both members of the Wilton
Cult. I'll scroll down and possibly make some comments.
> _________________________________________________________
>
> (quote, excerpts)
>
> 16. "I would speak in commendation of your hospitalitie likewise, but
> that it is chronicled in the Archdeacon's Court, and the fruits it
> brought forth (as I guess) are of age to speak for themselves."
>
> As previously noted, this passage, beginning with the words: "Yea, you
> have been such an infinite Maecenas". . . and ending with the
> words . . . "worthie to be registered in red letters". . . was changed
> after the first printing of Strange News. Nash was evidently ordered
> to re-cast his remarks in a hurry, and for good and sufficient reason.
> He had gone too far in referring to a little unpleasantness in which
> Lord Oxford had figured with a certain Mrs. Juliana Penn during the
> winter of 1590-91, together with the Earl's proteges, Thomas
> Churchyard, Nash himself and one other "decayed Student"—evidently
> Lyly or Robert Greene.
MM:
It's possible that Marlowe and/or Edmund Spenser had something to do
with this "change." I don't think they would have wanted this type of
in-cult bickering. The Queen could have been involved, as well.
> The documentation relating to this diverting contre-temps has never
> before been assembled. It may be found in Ward's Seventeenth Earl of
> Oxford (pp. 301-03); in Harvey's Four Letters (Bodley Head Quarto Ed.,
> p. 49) in that portion of Strange News now under consideration and in
> McKerrow's edition of Nash's collected works, beginning at Vol. III,
> p. 309.
>
> The episode as it can be realistically recreated from these sources
> deserves special attention. It throws light upon the precarious
> conditions under which important literary figures of the Shakespearean
> Age lived. More than that, this clear-cut testimony from principals
> involved, should convince the most confirmed skeptic that the "Gentle
> Master William" who is rallied by Nash on the hazardous quality of his
> "hospitalitie" could not be any one else but Lord Oxford.
MM:
Gentle Master William, IMO, was William Shakespeare of Stratford, but
I'll continue to scroll down.
MM:
That might have been a factor. I think Spenser and Marlowe were
probably bigger factors in this, however.
> As previously noted, the "three decayed Students" seem to have been
> Churchyard, Nash and Lyly or Greene.
MM:
Not the three maids? Hmmmm.
> Incidentally, it is significant to learn from Prof. McKerrow that in
> issues of Strange News subsequent to the first edition, The Epistle
> Dedicatorie was printed in very small type—making it difficult to
> decipher. In other editions it was dropped altogether. The reasons for
> these changes are obvious.
>
> So here we have in the episode involving Lord Oxford's efforts to
> provide board and lodging for his "men" in Mrs. Penn's house during
> the cold months of 1590-91, positive, first-hand evidence that Thomas
> Nash was a member of the mysterious poet-nobleman's intimate circle.
MM:
I wouldn't word it, as such. I'd say they were spiritual brothers of
the Wilton Cult. Nashe was younger, by some 17 years.
> Because the young writer suffered considerable inconvenience through
> accepting the Earl's well-intentioned "hospitalitie," he could not
> resist the temptation to rally Oxford on the affair in the dedication
> of Strange News. At the same time, Nash admires the great comedian
> whole-heartedly and understands the reasons why "Gentle Master
> William's" good will outruns his means. Nevertheless, Tom's
> indiscretion here had an immediate effect upon Lord Oxford's future
> activities in the world of Elizabethan letters. Strange News was
> published early in 1593.
MM:
They might have had some brotherly spats, but Marlowe and Spenser
would have rectified the situation. I don't agree with the Oxfordian
bias here, that Gentle Master William was Oxford. Nashe was affected,
also, but the Masters were trying for the best solution, for all
concerned.
> Meanwhile, Nash was obliged to seek the protection of new patrons in
> the persons of Sir George Carey—later Lord Chamberlain of the Royal
> Household—and his daughter, the Lady Elizabeth Carey.
MM:
I don't know about this, but I think Nash was endorsed by the Wilton
Cult, and that might have helped him to make his way in the world. I
already mentioned that the Queen was associated with the Wilton Cult,
also. Even the Queen could have been using her influence to help him.
> (from
>
> New Milestone in Shakespeare Research
> Contemporary Proof that the Poet Earl of Oxford's
> Literary Nickname Was "Gentle Master William"
> Copyright 1944 by Charles Wisner Barrell
> First published in The Shakespeare Fellowship Quarterly, October
> 1944.)
>
> http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/library/barrell/21-40/24mileston...
MM:
Proof? Not hardly.
Michael Martin
Mike
> On Jun 9, 7:37 pm, Maev wrote:
>
>
>
> > Did Oxford know Thomas Nash? - it seems he did.
>
> > Re a thread in "Forest of Arden",
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ardenmanagers/msg/9a0dceb7a18a68c8
>
>
>
>
> > there is apparently some proof of this.
>
> > _________________________________________________________
> > The residence that Oxford had selected for his literary retainers was
> > owned by the mother of Michael Hicks [Not Hicks' mother-in-law, as
> > Capt. Ward first thought.] (secretary to the Earl's father-in-law,
> > Lord Burghley).
>
> > This Lady, née Juliana Arthur, was then known as Mrs. Juliana Penn.
>
> ````````````````````````````
>
> Juliana Arthur? She shares the second name with Kit Marlowe's mother,
> Katherine Arthur.
>
> I suspect it is not a frequently found name.
> They may well be of the same family.
MM:
I've already mentioned that Kit Marlowe could have been involved in
the Edward de Vere/Thomas Nashe karma, so it wouldn't surprise me.
Michael Martin
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> >http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/library/barrell/21-40/24mileston...- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Mike
> On Jun 9, 7:41�pm, Maev wrote:
>
> �_________________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
> > > The residence that Oxford had selected for his literary retainers was
> > > owned by the mother of Michael Hicks [Not Hicks' mother-in-law, as
> > > Capt. Ward first thought.] (secretary to the Earl's father-in-law,
> > > Lord Burghley).
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
MM:
Thanks for your research work. It makes for a better group.
Michael Martin
Maev
>
> > Did Oxford know Thomas Nash? - it seems he did.
>
> > Re a thread in "Forest of Arden",
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/ardenmanagers/msg/9a0dceb7a18a68c8
>
>
> > there is apparently some proof of this.
>
> > _________________________________________________________
> > The residence that Oxford had selected for his literary retainers was
> > owned by the mother of Michael Hicks [Not Hicks' mother-in-law, as
> > Capt. Ward first thought.] (secretary to the Earl's father-in-law,
> > Lord Burghley).
>
> > This Lady, née Juliana Arthur, was then known as Mrs. Juliana Penn.
>
> ````````````````````````````
>
> Juliana Arthur? She shares the second name with Kit Marlowe's mother,
> Katherine Arthur.
>
> I suspect it is not a frequently found name.
> They may well be of the same family.
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
See also the thread -
Beverstone Castle - home of Michael Hicks (son of Juliana Arthur)
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> >http://www.sourcetext.com/sourcebook/library/barrell/21-40/24mileston...- Hide quoted text -