Warwickshire home of de Vere, Shugborough Hall, Arden/Throckmorton family
lyra
Shake-speare's" Unknown Home On the River Avon Discovered
Edward De Vere's Ownership of a Famous Warwickshire Literary
Retreat Indicates Him As the True "Sweet Swan of Avon."
First published in The Shakespeare Fellowship News-Letter,
Dec. 1942. Copyright 1942 by Charles Wisner Barrell
.
Even into the 19th century, this Avonside manor-owned first
by the poet-dramatist, Edward de Vere, and then by the
essayist-dramatist, Joseph Addison-retained in full
measure its remarkable appeal as a writer's retreat.
.
After the death of Addison, his heirs & successors, the old place
was the home of Charles James Apperley or *NIMROD* (1777-1843),
.
The Writings of Charles Wisner Barrell
Copyright © 1997-2003 by Mark Alexander
..........................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................
(quote)
Toward the north and west, lingering outposts of the ancient Forest of
Arden were still visible in the 16th century when Edward de Vere owned
Bilton.
Dugdale, the Warwickshire historian, states that Edward Earl of Oxford
retained Bilton until "towards the latter end of Qu. Eliz. reign," when
he sold it to
"John Shugborough, Esq;
then one of the six clerks in Chancery; which John dyed seized thereof
in 42 Eliz. (1601)."
......................................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................................................
Did his family once own the Hall, in Staffordshire, where the strange
riddle monument is,
I wonder - it being the same, unusual, name.
I found someone in the same family,
married into the Arden/Throckmorton family...
.....................................................................................................................................
Elizabeth Arden
Birth: abt 1565 Place: Park Hall,Warwick,England
Father: Edward Arden
Mother: Mary Throckmorton
Marriage: Simon Shugborough
abt 1583 Place: Park Hall,Warwick,England
.....................................................................
Simon Shugborough
Birth: abt 1562 Place: Napton,Warwick,England
Marriage
: Elizabeth Arden
abt 1583 Place: Park Hall,Warwick,England
.......................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
................................................................
(quote)
Shugborough Hall
By Tracy R. Twyman
When Charles Radclyffe escaped from Newgate Prison in 1714, avoiding
the deadly fate of his brother, James, his escape was assisted by his
cousin, the earl of Lichfield.
Although that particular line became extinct later in the 1700s, the
title of earl of Lichfield was bought by the Anson family, and is
retained to this very date.
Their family seat currently rests at Shugborough Hall in Staffordshire.
It had once been the home of the brother of George Anson, who was
famous for circumnavigating the globe. And when the old
"nautonnier" George Anson died in 1762, a curious poem was read
aloud by in Parliament by friends of his - one which appeared to refer
to the very elements of Nicolas Poussin's painting, The Shepherds of
Arcadia. It read:
...............................................................................................................................................
What makes the connection to Poussin even more explicit is that right
there on the Shugborough Hall property there stands a marble bas-relief
bearing an exact mirror-reversal of Poussin's The Shepherds of
Arcadia. Called "the Shepherd's Monument", it was made by Peter
Scheemakers in the 1700s, and beneath the relief we find written a code
which, until recently, had not been deciphered. It said:
"O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.
D. M."
............................................................................................................................................
There is a connection to an Earl of Pembroke in the 1700's,
I don't know if it is true, it's from a fictional book
(The Hounds of Avalon", by Mark Chadbourn)
(quote)
"The grounds were laid out in 1748-9 by Thomas Wright, a self-taught
mathematician with an interest in the esoteric....
Wright was brought to Shugborough by two men, Roger Gale and the Earl
of Pembroke,
who had both worked with the famous antiquarian William Stukeley,
surveying Stonehenge and Avebury."
"The owner of Shugborough, Thomas Anson, was also interested in
these old mysteries. Anson commissioned the Shepherds' monument in
1748."
lyra
lyra wrote:
................................................
another quote...
"He (Wright) used to tour Britain drawing what he called "druidic"
remains,
and in 1750 he published a book called "An Original Theory of the
Universe".
It was the first book to explain the Milky Way as our view through a
galaxy.
But Wright also had very strong views about the existence of an
infinite number of
universes, or dimensions, or whatever you want to call them,
all radiating out from a divine centre. There was a revival of
druidism
at the time, and this was one of the ideas that came out of that."
.............................................................................................................................
.............................................................................................................................
It seems it is true, I've found a webpage about it...
(quote, excerpts)
In 1735 Thomas Wright's principal patron was Henry Herbert, the sixth
Earl of Pembroke who gave Wright the use of his library. Herbert, an
architect and patron of the arts, also worked with Stukeley. They had
explored Stonehenge together, which is near Pembroke's estate at
Wilton.
Stukeley published a major study of about Avebury in 1744, dedicated to
Lord Hardwicke. He drew Avebury as great stone circle, with avenues
passing through it in the shape of a giant serpent. Stukeley wrote that
the temple is an image of the Druid's "divine being" and that
this "could not fail of drawing down the blessings of divine
providence upon that place and country, as it were, by sympathy and
similitude". (4)
Did Wright and other landscape designers feel their gardens had the
same effect as Stukeley's Avebury, in drawing down blessings on the
place?
........................................................................................................................................
...Both ideas may come from the 16th century mystic Jacob Boehme, who
was an influence on many philosophers in London in the 1740s.
Pembroke's grandfather had written tracts influenced by Boehme and
Boehme was discussed in London philosophical clubs, such as John
Byrom's "Cabala Club". There are also suggestions in Wright's
"The Elements of Existence" of the influence of the Rosicrucian
writer Robert Fludd, whom Wright does quote in his much later "Second
Thoughts".
................................................................................................................................
This is a much argued point. Were gardens simply random fantasies or
could they be "theatres of memory", or attempts to draw down "the
blessings of divine providence upon that place and country" as
Stukeley had written about Avebury?
............................................................................................................................................
'The Divine Imagination', a phrase later used by Blake, is a feature of
the 17th century mystic Jacob Boehme's writing. His 'Key' (and other
works) were translated by William Law and published in 1764. Boehme
writes:
'She (wisdom) is the true divine chaos, wherein all things lie, viz, a
divine imagination, in which the ideas of angels and souls have been
seen from eternity, in a divine type and resemblance.'
http://www.shugborough.org.uk/AcademyTW&Ladies-184
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
>
> It seems it is true, I've found a webpage about it...
>
> (quote, excerpts)
>
> In 1735 Thomas Wright's principal patron was Henry Herbert, the sixth
> Earl of Pembroke who gave Wright the use of his library.
Herbert, an
> architect and patron of the arts, also worked with Stukeley. They had
> explored Stonehenge together, which is near Pembroke's estate at
> Wilton.
.....................................................................................................
It seems it was the 9th Earl, not the 6th.
.......................................................................................................
(quote)
9th Earl of Pembroke
.............................................
Henry Herbert, 9th Earl of Pembroke (and 6th Earl of Montgomery), see
here,
.................................................................................................................
"The Architect Earl", born 29th Jan 1693,
before mar lived at their town house, Pembroke House, Whitehall
(acquired 1717),
succ Jan 1733,
mar 28th Aug 1733 to Mary Fitzwilliam [descendant of Edward III]
and had issue:
Henry Herbert, 10th Earl of Pembroke,
born 3rd July 1734, Pembroke House.
architect, landscaped the gardens at Wilton,
removed the formal gardens that were to the S of the house,
built in 1737 the Palladian Bridge over the river to the S of the
house,
died 9th Jan 1750, age 56 yrs.
She remarried.
................................................................................................................
http://humphrysfamilytree.com/Herbert/9th.earl.html
.....................................................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
...............................................................
................................................................................................................................................
.................................................................................................................................................
Peter Scheemakers
(anagrams)
Shakspere cemetre
Shaksper cemetree
......................................................................
maybe it (the monument) gives clues or directions to the cemetery?
..........................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................
Chess One
"lyra" <mountai...@RockAthens.com> wrote in message
news:1158684483.5...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Their family seat currently rests at Shugborough Hall in Staffordshire.
**SHUG: to writhe the body forward and backward, or from side to side, so as
to produce friction against one's clothes, as those who have the itch
/Somerset/. Palsgrave has it, to jog or SHAKE.
What makes the connection to Poussin even more explicit is that right
there on the Shugborough Hall property there stands a marble bas-relief
bearing an exact mirror-reversal of Poussin's The Shepherds of
Arcadia. Called "the Shepherd's Monument", it was made by Peter
Scheemakers in the 1700s, and beneath the relief we find written a code
which, until recently, had not been deciphered. It said:
"O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.
D. M."
**this is the Et In Arcadia, Ego, motto, which is mighty suggestive of
Nature herself [besides Templar references], and thus a philosophical gloss
on the issue of the times.
............................................................................................................................................
"The owner of Shugborough, Thomas Anson, was also interested in
these old mysteries. Anson commissioned the Shepherds' monument in
1748."
**Stukeley was much up the same street. What means 'Paschal', beyond
'bound'?
Such hides and seeks!
Phil
lyra
lyra wrote:
............................................................................................................................................
> ................................................................................................................................................
> .................................................................................................................................................
>
> Peter Scheemakers
>
> (anagrams)
>
> Shakspere cemetre
>
> Shaksper cemetree
>
> ......................................................................
>
> maybe it (the monument) gives clues or directions to the cemetery?
>
> ..........................................................................................................
> ...........................................................................................................
> ............................................................................................................
Scheemakers (may it refer to shoemaker?)
(anagram)
search, see KM
............................................................................................
(Kit Marlowe)
................................................................................................................
lyra
Scheemakers has a link to Shakespeare...
(quote, excerpts)
Peter Scheemakers
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Peter Scheemakers (1691-1781) was a Flemish Roman Catholic sculptor
who worked for most of his life in London. Scheemakers studied both
classical and baroque styles of sculpture in Rome before settling in
London in 1716.
Scheemakers is perhaps best known for executing the William
Kent-designed sculpture of William Shakespeare which was erected in
Westminster Abbey in 1740,
as well as that to John Dryden in the same church. He made a very large
number of church monuments which may be seen across England.
Chess One
"lyra" <mountai...@RockAthens.com> wrote in message
> Interesting posts from gangleri and Chess One!
you haven't quite traced the link, see
http://www.connectotel.com/rennes/shug.html
and also my reference to Street in the previous post, which also had a
Templar outpost.
Thomas Wright was the architect. George Anson, later Lord Anson married
Elizabeth Yorke. Later the house as well as the monument were decorated even
as Lord Anson became First Lord of the Admiralty.
The astronomer/architect, Thomas Wright, started work at Shugborough,
designing the rustic arch for the Shepherds' Monument, and the bas-relief
copy of Guido Reni's Apollo and the Hours preceded by Aurora, for the
ceiling in the dining room at Shugborough Hall.
Should you wish a few more mysterieous references:
1758
First known reference to the Shepherds' Monument, contained in a poorly
composed poem about a hermit, partially written by a young Anna Seward
(1742-1809), to be known as the future 'Swan of Lichfield'.
1760
Lady Elizabeth Anson died - buried in the Colwych parish church of St
Michael and All The Angels.
1762
Dr Sneyd Davies' poem dedicated to Lord Admiral George Anson, which includes
the following lines:
"Where now the dance, the lute, the nuptial feast,
The passion throbbing in the lover's breast?
Life's emblem here, in youth and vernal bloom,
But Reason's finger pointing at the tomb!"
Phil
gangleri
> Dr Sneyd Davies' poem dedicated to Lord Admiral George Anson, which includes
> the following lines:
>
> "Where now the dance, the lute, the nuptial feast,
> The passion throbbing in the lover's breast?
> Life's emblem here, in youth and vernal bloom,
> But Reason's finger pointing at the tomb!"
Comment.
These four lines are from the following verse -
Upon that storied marble cast thine eye.
The scene commands a moralising sigh.
E'en in Arcadia's bless'd Elysian plains,
Amidst the laughing nymphs and sportive swains,
See festal joy subside, with melting grace,
And pity visit the half-smiling face;
Where now the dance, the lute, the nuptial feast,
The passion throbbing in the lover's breast,
Life's emblem here, in youth and vernal bloom,
But reason's finger pointing at the tomb.
Cipher Value 179294.
- which was read out in Parliament at the death in 1762 of Shugborough
Hall owner and Member of Parliament George Anson.
I don't know how often Members of Parliament have been memorialized in
like manner, but the verse itself seems to have NOTHING to do directly
with the newly departed.
Considering the intellectual/esoteric interests of the parties
associated with the building of the Shugborough Hall Monument,
including the tell-tale phrase "Et in Arcadia Ego", I have long been
persuaded that the verse was viewed as having SOMETHING important to do
with Shakespeare Myth - but I have not succeeded in identifying that
something to my full satisfaction.
Until this afternoon, that is!
Briefly, that SOMETHING goes to the very heart of the Shakespeare
Mystery, relating the Shugborough Hall Monument to Francis Bacon's
"last letter", left unfinished without explanation by his associates,
who published it in 1660, some 34 years after his death -
To the Earle of Arundel and Surrey.
My very good Lord: I was likely to have had the fortune of Caius
Plinius the Elder, who lost his life by trying an experiment about the
burning of the mountain Vesuvius. For I was also desirous to try an
experiment or two, touching the conservation and induration of bodies.
As for the experiment itself, it succeeded excellently well; but in the
journey between London and Highgate, I was taken with such a fit of
casting, as I knew not whether it were the stone, or some surfeit of
cold, or indeed a touch of them all three. But when I came to your
Lordship's house, I was not able to go back, and therefore was forced
to take up my lodging here, where your housekeeper is very careful and
diligent about me; which I assure myself your Lordship will not only
pardon towards him, but think the better of him for it. For indeed
your Lordship's house is happy to me; and I kiss your noble hands for
the welcome which I am sure you give me to it. I know how unfit it is
for me to write to your lordship with any other hand than mine own; but
in troth my fingers are so disjointed with this fit of sickness, that I
cannot steadily hold a pen...
Cipher Value 526846.
- and to Prince Hamlet's soliloquy in Act III, Sc. i (First Folio):
Enter Hamlet.
Hamlet:
To be, or not to be, that is the Question:
Whether 'tis Nobler in the minde to suffer
The Slings and Arrowes of outragious Fortune,
Or to take Armes against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them: to dye, to sleepe
No more; and by a sleepe, to say we end
The Heart-ake, and the thousand Naturall shockes
That Flesh is heyre too? 'Tis a consummation
Deuoutly to be wish'd. To dye to sleepe,
To sleepe, perchance to Dreame; I, there's the rub,
For in that sleepe of death, what dreames may come,
When we haue shufflel'd off this mortall coile,
Must giue vs pawse. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would beare the Whips and Scornes of time,
The Oppressors wrong, the poore mans Contumely,
The pangs of dispriz'd Loue, the Lawes delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurnes
That patient merit of the vnworthy takes,
When he himselfe might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would these Fardles beare
To grunt and sweat vnder a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The vndiscouered Countrey, from whose Borne
No Traueller returnes, Puzels the will,
And makes vs rather beare those illes we haue,
Then flye to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of vs all,
And thus the Natiue hew of Resolution
Is sicklied o're, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprizes of great pith and moment,
With this regard their Currants turne away,
And loose the name of Action. Soft you now,
The faire Ophelia? Nimph, in thy Orizons
Be all my sinnes remembred.
Ophelia:
Good my Lord,
How does your Honor for this many a day?
Hamlet:
I humbly thanke you: well, well, well.
Cipher Value 714889.
***
As here construed, the verse read in Parliament in memory of George
Anson served to "complete" Francis Bacon's "last letter", with the
allusion in the text to the imagery of the Shugborough Hall Monument
IMPLICITLY invoking a residual Cipher Value of 8749 associated with the
Monument itself (see below) whereby the "complete last letter" is
anchored in multiple ways to Francis Bacon's "The Great Instauration",
the imagery of Shakespeare Myth and the Cipher Value the soliloquy of
Prince Hamlet, "The Once and Future King".
As in 526846 + 8749 + 179294 = 714889.
***
The Cipher Value of The Great Instauration is 11203 as in 11203 + 1000
- 4000 + 5497 - 4951 = 8749, where
1000 = Light of the World;
- 4000 = Mythical Brownswerd in Creation in Time and Space;
5497 = Et in Arcadia Ego; upon the "death" (symbolized by minus) at
Myth's end of
- 4951 = Shake-Speare (spelled as in the 46th Psalm in the King James
Bible).
***
The title of Poussin's sculpture, Les Bergers d'Arcadie, 7582, serves
to relate the passage of Time, 2118, to the "death" of Shake-Speare, -
4951, by metamorphosis of erstwhile Brownswerd into Flaming Sword,
4000, as in 7582 + 2118 - 4951 + 4000 = 8749.
***
The arrangement of the curious letter inscription on the Shugborough
Hall Monument -
O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.
D. M
- associates the puzzle with Cipher Values of 6085 (O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V)
and 767 (D.M.), respectively.
***
The Cipher Value, 6085, relates the "death" of Shake-Speare, - 4951, to
the imagery of Matt. 4:1-11, where The End of Time is symbolized by
Jesus' command to The Devil, Get thee hence, Satan, 7615 as in 6085 -
4951 + 7615 = 8749.
4:11
Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered
unto him.
As in Horatio's farewell:
Good-night, sweet prince,
And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest?
***
In the plain "letter" imagery of Augustan-Saga-Shakespeare Myth, the
letter D stands for Sword/Speare while M (the 12th letter) denotes
Twelve Houses of the Zodiac - as in the "passage" of Prince Hamlet a
whole circle around the Zodiac.
As in 225 + 542 = 767.
***
Prince Hamlet IS Light of the World, 1000, whose metamorphosis into the
Flaming Sword, 4000, of Christ (Matt. 10:34) on the "death" of Light's
spatio-temporal "tomb" alias Shake-speare, - 4951, "completes" Francis
Bacon's "last letter".
"Let it suffice to lay these Foundations in the name of the present
age, every age will enlarge and adorn this Edifice; but to what Age is
given to set the finishing hand, is manifest only to God and to the
Fates."
So wrote Francis Bacon's chaplain and personal secretary, Dr. William
Rawley, in the preface to "Manes Verulamiani" - a collection of
thirty-two Latin elegies in Bacon's memory published in 1626:
Might the mysterious "finishing hand" depicted on the frontispiece of
"Minerva Britanna" see fit to "complete" the "Edifice" with a fitting
epitaph today, September 19, 2006:
NON SANZ DROICT, 7933,
As in 767 + 1000 + 4000 - 4951 + 7933 = 8749?
***
Cipher Values may be checked through the Calculator posted at
http://www.light-of-truth.com/gunnartomasson/ciphers.htm
lyra
.....................................
>
(quote)
>
> Shugborough Hall
>
> By Tracy R. Twyman
> ...............................................................................................................................................
>
> What makes the connection to Poussin even more explicit is that right
> there on the Shugborough Hall property there stands a marble bas-relief
> bearing an exact mirror-reversal of Poussin's The Shepherds of
> Arcadia. Called "the Shepherd's Monument", it was made by Peter
> Scheemakers in the 1700s, and beneath the relief we find written a code
> which, until recently, had not been deciphered. It said:
>
> "O.U.O.S.V.A.V.V.
> D. M."
>
> http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:WjBEKaFlgUQJ:plusultrablog.com/blog/%3Fpage_id%3D641+shugborough+hall+history&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4
>
> ............................................................................................................................................
Like a lot of others, this inscription attracts me to try solutions...
making each of the letters into numbers,
the straightforward way,
i.e.,
A=1, etc.,
gives
........15 21 15 19 25 1 25 25
(4)....................................................(13)
.........................................................................................................
............................................................................................................
the two texts to try first,
the other statue of Scheemakers,
Shakespeare, in Westminster Abbey,
the inscription on the Stratford church monument.
................................................................................................................
trying a word for each number,
reading from the top and the end of the text,
gave some nice results...
a sort of strange poetry!
.............................................................................................................
..............................................................................................................
.............yea dissolve yea inherit baseless the baseless baseless
towers
.......................................................................................globe
.................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................
.......shall itself shall all temples behind temples temples
not....................................................................................and
.......................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................
......sieh ys, sieh far, whose witt whose whose
to....................................................................yt
................................................................................................
..................................................................................................
.............death monument death in quick stay quick quick
goest.............................................................................whom
.........................................................................................................
...........................................................................................................
I shall try some more!
.................................................................................................................
..................................................................................................................
note - I've just discovered that one of the numbers is wrong!
I suspect it won't give such nice results when altered...
...................................................................................................................
lyra
........................................................................................................................
the new, and, I hope, now OK version,
follows..........................................................
.............................................................................................................
..............................................................................................................
.............yea dissolve yea inherit and the and and
towers.....................................................................globe
.................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................
.......shall itself shall all Globe behind Globe Globe
not...............................................................................and
.......................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................
.......................................................................................................................
........................................................................................................................
......sieh ys, sieh far, deck witt deck deck
to.................................................................yt
................................................................................................
..................................................................................................
..........death monument death in Shakespeare stay Shakespeare
Shakespeare
goest.................................................................................................................whom
............................................................................................................................................
..................................................................................................................................................
well, I especially like the Shakespeare one...
and mention of the Globe is nice, too......
............................................................................................
lyra
................................................................................................................................
.
death monument death in Shakespeare stay Shakespeare Shakespeare
goest...........................................................................................whom
............................................................................................................................................
..................................................................................................................................................
it has Shakespeare 3 times
death 2
monument 1
.............................................................................
i.e., it is appropriate for the Shepherds' Monument,
featuring a tomb,
and for the text, the Shakespeare memorial in the church at Stratford.
............................................................................................................
it also has other words which fit the subject matter...
in, stay, goest, and whom.
.................................................................................................................
and NO words of inappropriate type, or which don't seem to fit,
or are inexplicable, in the context.
.......................................................................................................................
the way I arrived at it,
is to give every letter in the original
.
O U O S V A V V
D..........................M
.
its number in the English alphabet,
.
and then to search the text for the words at those numbers,
i.e., the 4th word (for D),
the 15th word (for O),
the 21st word (for U), etc.
.................................................................................................
.
The text is the one in Holy Trinity,
.
STAY PASSENGER, WHY GOEST THOV BY SO FAST?
READ IF THOV CANST, WHOM ENVIOVS DEATH HATH PLAST
WITH IN THIS MONVMENT SHAKSPEARE: WITH WHOME,
QVICK NATVRE DIDE: WHOSE NAME, DOTH DECK YS TOMBE,
FAR MORE, THEN COST: SIEH ALL, YT HE HATH WRITT,
LEAVES LIVING ART, BVT PAGE, TO SERVE HIS WITT.
.
...............................................................................................................
note, that this has nothing to do with Peter Farey's deciphering of
this text,
which is very interesting, and may be read at his website.
...................................................................................................................
the text has 8 words in the first line,
the second line 9, (=17),
the third, 7, (=24)
......................................................
O U O S V A V V
D.........................M
15 21 15 19 22 1 22 22
4...........................13
........................................................................................................................
.
DEATH MONUMENT DEATH IN SHAKESPEARE STAY SHAKESPEARE SHAKESPEARE
GOEST?..................................................................................................WHOM?
..........................................................................................................................................................
.
Intentional or by chance,
it's a nice memorial to the Bard.
....................................................................................................................................................................
Interestingly, it seems the Shepherds' Monument also has the two masks
or faces
of Comedy and Tragedy,
I haven't a picture of it that would show this.
A clear link to the drama, to plays.
.........................................................................................................................................................................
Note, the monument's creator, Peter Scheemakers,
also made the Shakespeare Memorial in
Westminster Abbey.
.
Is this the one of which there is a copy in Wilton House,
owned by the Earls of Pembroke,
two of whom are the "incomparable brothers" of the First Folio?
.
I shall try to find out.
.
The 9th Earl of Pembroke came with Scheemakers to Shugborough Hall,
where Scheemakers made the Shepherds' Monument.
.........................................................................................................................
I think the Shepherds' Monument is,
on one level,
a monument to Shakespeare,
whatever else it is for.
..............................................................................................................................
Note, it may be that the inscription is intended to be read in reverse,
as the picture on the Shepherds' Monument is a mirror image
of a similar scene to the Poussin painting
(Et in Arcadia Ego).
.................................................................................................................................
SHAKESPEARE SHAKESPEARE STAY SHAKESPEARE IN DEATH MONUMENT DEATH
WHOM?......................................................................................GOEST?
..........................................................................................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
......................................
>
> ....................................................................................................................................................................
>
> Interestingly, it seems the Shepherds' Monument also has the two masks
> or faces
> of Comedy and Tragedy,
>
> I haven't a picture of it that would show this.
>
> A clear link to the drama, to plays.
>
.........................................................................................................................................................................
(quote)
"two faces had been carved, one smiling, one sad, like the Greek masks
for tragedy and comedy."
("The Hounds of Avalon", by Mark Chadbourn)
..................................................................................................................................................
>
> Note, the monument's creator, Peter Scheemakers,
>
> also made the Shakespeare Memorial in
>
> Westminster Abbey.
>
> .
>
> Is this the one of which there is a copy in Wilton House,
>
> owned by the Earls of Pembroke,
>
> two of whom are the "incomparable brothers" of the First Folio?
>
> .
>
> I shall try to find out.
....................................................................................................
Yes, it is...
(quote)
Front Hall
In the Tudor House this was the site of the Great Hall. In 1801 the
architect James Wyatt (1746 - 1813) created a new entrance on this
the North side of the house.
The central statue of William Shakespeare commemorates an era of great
literary and artistic patronage and is a copy by Scheemakers (1743) of
William Kent's statue in Westminster Abbey.
http://www.wiltonhouse.co.uk/visit_tour2.htm
.............................................................................................................................................................................
the timeline seems to run -
Scheemakers
...........................
1740 Shakespeare memorial in Westminster Abbey
1743 Shakespeare statue for Wilton House (Earls of Pembroke)
(a copy of the one in Westminster Abbey)
1748-1749 -1750
Shepherds' Monument in Shugborough Hall grounds
...........................................................................................................
Peter Groves
I've decided this is the best result from the deciphering...
............................................................................
....................................................
.
death monument death in Shakespeare stay Shakespeare Shakespeare
Makes sense to me -- or rather sense carrots me makes it umbilical to (and
I hope *that's* clear, even to bookburn)
Peter G.
lyra
lyra wrote:
>
> the way I arrived at it,
>
> is to give every letter in the original
>
> .
>
> O U O S V A V V
> D..........................M
>
> .
>
> its number in the English alphabet,
>
> .
>
> and then to search the text for the words at those numbers,
>
> i.e., the 4th word (for D),
>
> the 15th word (for O),
>
> the 21st word (for U), etc.
>
> .................................................................................................
..........................................................................................................
it may also be reversed, of course,
so that one reads the 4th word from the end,
etc.
This gives nice results with Christopher Marlowe's poem
The Passionate Shepherd to His Love,
.
I don't think it's the answer to the cipher,
.
but it has two things going for it...
1. it fits the name of the Shepherds' Monument,
2. it's just, well, NICE...
...................................................................................
(text of last verse)
(the numbers are the numbers of words in the line and in the total)
...................................................................................................
The shepherds's swains shall dance and sing 7 (28)
For thy delight each May morning: 6 (21)
If these delights thy mind may move, 7 (15)
Then live with me and be my love. 8
............................................................................
using the Shepherds' Monument cipher...
if for, if, delight sing love sing sing
and........................................delights
.....................................................................
.......................................................................
..........................................................................
A quite different arrangement of words
appears from the use of the first verse,
and reading the words downwards...
15 21 15 19 22 1 22 22
4...........................13
Come live with me and be my love, 8
And we will all the pleasures prove 7 (15)
That valleys, groves, hills, and fields, 6 (21)
Woods, or steepy mountain yields. 5 (26)
..................................................................................
prove fields prove hills woods woods come woods
me............................................the
............................................................................
I like finding these -
it's quite more-ish!
I shall see what appears from other sources...
...............................................................................................
...........................................................................
>
> O U O S V A V V
> D.........................M
>
> 15 21 15 19 22 1 22 22
> 4...........................13
>
> ........................................................................................................................
>
> .
>
lyra
Here is one I like,
from Virgil's Eclogues.
Text -
Now, O ye shepherds, strew the ground with leaves, 9
And o'er the fountains draw a shady veil- 8 (17)
So Daphnis to his memory bids be done- 8 (25)
And rear a tomb, and write thereon this verse:
'I, Daphnis in the woods, from hence in fame
Am to the stars exalted, guardian once
Of a fair flock, myself more fair than they.'"
...................................................................................................
gives the words -
a his a Daphnis memory now memory memory
shepherds......................................................fountains
.
which may be rearranged, as ciphers often are,
to make -
a Daphnis -
fountains, his memory,
now a memory, shepherds memory
...........................................................................................................
there are fountains in the gardens I think.
.............................................................................................................
anyway, it was nice to read the Eclogues,
cipher or no cipher...
.............................................................................................................................
a Daphnis, fountains, his memory, now a memory, shepherds memory
lyra
lyra wrote:
..................................................................................
> Here is one I like,
>
> from Virgil's Eclogues.
>
> Text -
>
> Now, O ye shepherds, strew the ground with leaves, 9
> And o'er the fountains draw a shady veil- 8 (17)
>
> So Daphnis to his memory bids be done- 8 (25)
> And rear a tomb, and write thereon this verse:
>
> 'I, Daphnis in the woods, from hence in fame
> Am to the stars exalted, guardian once
> Of a fair flock, myself more fair than they.'"
>
> ...................................................................................................
>
> gives the words -
>
> a his a Daphnis memory now memory memory
> shepherds......................................................fountains
>
> .
...............................................................................................
> which may be rearranged, as ciphers often are,
> to make -
>
> a Daphnis -
> fountains, his memory,
> now a memory, shepherds memory
>
...........................................................................................................
>
> there are fountains in the gardens I think.
>
> .............................................................................................................
there is a fountain with a statue of a boy and swan...
Apollo, maybe,
or,
Swan of Avon.
..................................................................................................................
lyra
........................................................................................................................................
I tried The Shepherds' Calendar, by Edmund Spenser,
as it fits the idea of the "Shepherds Monument."
....................................................................................
Taking the last lines of "December", -
.
Adieu delightes, that lulled me asleepe,
Adieu my deare, whose loue I bought so deare:
Adieu my little Lambes and loued sheepe,
Adieu ye Woodes that oft my witnesse were: 8 (22)
Adieu good Hobbinol, that was so true, 7 (14)
Tell Rosalind, her Colin bids her adieu. 7
....................................................................................
and the letters/numbers,
O U O S V A V V
D..........................M
.
15 21 15 19 22 1 22 22
4...........................13
.
reading in reverse,
gives
...........................................................................
.
were ye were that adieu adieu adieu adieu
Colin..............................................good
.
........................................................................................
.
when reversed, as is the picture on the Monument, -
.
Adieu adieu adieu adieu! that were ye, were
good Colin
..........................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
...................................................
.................................................................................................
> .
>
> when reversed, as is the picture on the Monument, -
>
> .
>
> Adieu adieu adieu adieu! that were ye, were
> good Colin
>
> ..........................................................................................
"Adieu adieu adieu adieu! that were ye, were
good Colin"
note, Colin is a shepherd -
"good Colin" = "Good shepherd" = Jesus Christ?
.......................................................................................
"Et in Arcadia Ego" (the original Poussin painting that inspired the
Shepherds Monument)
Arcadia is the home of the SHEPHERDESS
Amaryllis
(cryptogram -
Mary (in) All is)
(I know, the Greeks didn't know English...
maybe a Divine mind or spirit, though,
knew very well that English would come along later -
who on earth are human beings to say this is not so??)
(why am I talking about this today -
maybe, it's Sunday, and the Feast
of Our Lady of Walsingham -
that's inspired me to other realities
than the usual)
note, of course, the SHEPHERDESS
among the shepherds of Arcadia.
(in the Poussin painting etc.)
Et in Arcadia Ego
...................................................................
.......................................................................
..........................................................................
The legend of the founding of Walsingham is given here -
one thing I 've noticed is the first name of the
"Saxon Lady of the Manor" -
Richeldis
doesn't seem a Saxon name to me,
it is, though, found in the Merovingian family tree -
is it a clue, I wonder,
to a deciphering of a mystery.
.............................................................
And is Faverches, Faversham??? -
well, not necessarily!
..........................................................................
......................................................................................
Our Lady of Walsingham
............................................................
Our Lady of Walsingham
Also known as
Virgin by the Sea
Memorial
24 September
Profile
In 1061 Lady Richeldis de Faverches, lady of the manor near the
village of Walsingham, Norfolk, England, was taken in spirit to
Nazareth. There Our Lady asked her to build a replica, in Norfolk, of
the Holy House where she had been born, grew up, and received the
Annunciation of Christ's impending birth.
She immediately did, constructing a house 23'6" by 12'10" according to
the plan given her. Its fame slowly spread, and in 1150 a group of
Augustinian Canons built a priory beside it. Its fame continued to
grow, and for centuries it was a point of pilgrimage for all classes,
the recipient of many expensive gifts.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/SAINTS/mary0018.htm
In the Middle Ages, Walsingham became one of the greatest pilgrimage
sites in all of Europe. A church was constructed around the house to
protect it from the elements. Many English kings conducted pilgrimages
to Walsingham.
The last of these was Henry VIII, who made three pilgrimages to the
site before breaking with the Catholic Church in 1534 and forming the
Church of England. Henry ordered the destruction of all Catholic
shrines and places of religious worship. The Walsingham church and
house were destroyed in the rampage of destruction that occurred. The
statue of Mary that resided in the house was burned several years
later.
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Aparitns/Others.htm#Walsingham
................................................................................................................
http://www.walsingham.org.uk/
.
Anglican
http://www.walsinghamanglican.org.uk/welcome/index.htm
...........................................................................................
.
Roman Catholic
http://www.walsingham.org.uk/romancatholic/
.........................................................................................................
(quote, excerpts)
A Lament for Our Lady's Shrine at Walsingham
"In the wrackes of Walsingam
Whom should I chuse
But the Queene of Walsingam
To be guide to my muse?
Bitter was it oh to see
The seely sheepe
Murdered by the raveninge wolves
While the sheephards did sleep.
Bitter was it oh to vewe
The sacred vyne
While the gardiners plaied all close
Rooted up by the swine.
Bitter, bitter oh to behould
The grasse to growe
Where the walls of Walsingam
So stately did shewe.
Such were the works of Walsingam
While shee did stand
Such are the wrackes as now do shewe
Of that so holy land.
.................................................................
Walsingham is England's national shrine to Our Lady, and a major
place of pilgrimage and prayer. It is in Norfolk, a few miles from the
North Sea, and is a small village set in the green countryside
characteristic of this corner of Britain. The shrine dates back to the
12th century, when the local lady of the manor, Richeldis, had a vision
of the Holy House - the home of the Holy family at Nazareth - on
this spot. For centuries, pilgrims visited here and Our Lady of
Walsingham was honoured with countless processions and prayers. Springs
of water - they still exist today - were said to have healing
powers. A great priory drew men who devoted themselves to the religious
life. At the shrine itself, the image was always surrounded by candles,
flowers, and gifts left by grateful pilgrims who had knelt there in
prayer.
http://www.wf-f.org/OLWalsingham.html
............................................................................................................................................
lyra
.............................................
Et in Arcadia Ego
(anagram)
Ciao! - greet Diana!
................................................
lyra
............................................................................
.
one thing I 've noticed is the first name of the
"Saxon Lady of the Manor" -
.
Richeldis
.
doesn't seem a Saxon name to me,
it is, though, found in the Merovingian family tree -
is it a clue, I wonder,
to a deciphering of a mystery.
.............................................................
all I've found just now on the web...
(quote, excerpts)
.................................................................................................................................
8 Count Of Flanders BALDWIN V b: 1012 d: 1 SEP 1067
+ Of France ADELAIDE b: 1009 d: 8 JAN
1077/78
9 BALDWINVI d: 17 JUL 1070
+ Countess Richeldis Of HAINAULT d:
1086
10 Count Of Hainault BALDWIN II d:
1099
+ Of Louvain IDA d: 1139
http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=006973&id=I1069&ti=5535
6 Count Of Flanders BALDWIN V b: 1012 d: 1 SEP 1067
+ Of France ADELAIDE b: 1009 d: 8 JAN 1077/78
7 BALDWINVI d: 17 JUL 1070
+ Countess Richeldis Of HAINAULT d: 1086
8 Count Of Hainault BALDWIN II d: 1099
+ Of Louvain IDA d: 1139
http://awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=006973&id=I1049&ti=5535
.....................................................................................................................................
2. Thierry had previously cited a source which not only provided
evidence for Richilda's blood relationship to Pope Leo IX,
"[who was] the uncle of Richilda" (Flandria Generosa, MGH SS IX,
p. 320: "...eiusdem Richildis avunculo"), but also indicated a
less specific relationship to the 'imperial' family, referring
to Richilda, "who was of the imperial blood" (Cont. Aquicinctina,
p. 553: "Richildem quae erat de sanguine imperiali ...").
It is not certain what is meant by this, but it can be
reasonably presumed that a descent from either a Carolingian
subsequent (Holy Roman) Emperor was intended. The AT given in
an earlier post in this thread showed that, if Richilda was
the daughter of Louis of Mousson and his wife Sophia of
Upper Lorraine (heiress of Bar), she would then have been the
great-granddaughter of Hermann II, Duke of Swabia (d. 1003)
and his wife Gerberga, daughter of Conrad III 'the Pacific'
of Burgundy (d. 993). This relationship would provide lines
of descent from Otto I 'the Great (one), Henry 'the Fowler
(two), and also the Carolingian Louis IV 'd'Outremer', King
of France (one).
Even closer, as a 'family' relationship, Sophia of Upper
Lorraine was a first cousin of the Emperor Henry III (her
mother Matilda of Swabia was sister to Gisela, wife of
Conrad II and mother of Henry III). Such a close kinship
for Richilda (if a daughter of Sophia) would not have
escaped notice.
....................................................................
1 Baldwin VI of Flanders
----------------------------------------
Death: 1070[1]
Occ: Count of Flanders 1067-1070, Count of Hainault
Father: Baldwin V 'of Lille' of Flanders (-1067)
Mother: Adela of France (-1097)
Count of Flanders 1067-1070
Count of Hainault (as Baldwin I)
re: his wife:
Richilda, countess of Hainault (widow of Hermann of Hainault)
' Richeldis comitissa ', founded the abbey of Saint-Denis en
Broqueroie, 1081 together with her son Count Baldwin
[ Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Denis en Broqueroie, fol. 10,
verso][2]
Spouse: Richilda of Hainault
Death: 1086[3]
Marr: 1051[4]
Children: Arnulf (-1071)
Baldwin II (-1098)
Agnes
...........................................................................................................................
1.2 Baldwin II of Hainault
----------------------------------------
Death: 1098, Palestine (on crusade)[1]
Occ: Count of Hainault ca 1071-1098
Count of Hainault ca 1071-1098
Spouse: Ida of Louvain
Death: ca 1139[5]
Father: Henry II, Count of Louvain (-ca1079)
Children: Baldwin III (1088-1120)
Louis
Simon
Henry
William
Arnulf
Ida
Richilda
Alix (->1152)
....................................................................................................
1.2.8 Richilda of Hainault
----------------------------------------
cf. Theroff, 'The Counts of Flanders and Hainault'[1]
Spouse: Amaury de Montfort-l'Amaury, comte d'Evreux
Death: bef 20 Apr 1136[7]
Father: Simon de Montfort-l'Amaury (-1087)
Mother: Agnes of Evreux
Marr: ca 1115[1]
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/GEN-MEDIEVAL/2004-01/1074481857
.............................................................................................................................
Laila Roth
Some Oxfordians love to confuse Bilton with Wilton. Could it possibly
have been the same place?
Laila Roth
lyra
lyra wrote:
...............................................................
> (quote, excerpts)
>
> A Lament for Our Lady's Shrine at Walsingham
>
>
> "In the wrackes of Walsingam
> Whom should I chuse
> But the Queene of Walsingam
> To be guide to my muse?
>
> Bitter was it oh to see
> The seely sheepe
> Murdered by the raveninge wolves
> While the sheephards did sleep.
.
The poem may be by one of the Howards.
I only knew the word Seelie as referring to faeries,
here is a description of it.
.
(quote)
Seelie
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In order to classify the faerie characters in the stories, the race is
divided up into two groups: the peasantry and the aristocracy; trooping
and solitary. It is a distinction that hold good throughout the British
Isles, and is indeed valid wherever fairy beliefs are held.
The peasantry is made up of the solitary faeries that are believed to
have descended from spirits who made up all of nature. Although they
had some of the same powers as their more prestigious relatives, i.e.
the ability to become invisible and shape-change, they were known to be
more wild and capricious. Fortunately, true encounters with mortals
were relatively rare, instead their presence were most often announced
by evidence of the creatures' activity. It was believed the bending
of the grass, the rustling sounds of tree branches, and the glittering
patterns of frost on windows could be attributed to their nearness.
The Faerie aristocracy was very different from their isolated cousins.
They were known as trooping faeries because they travelled in long
processions. The trooping fay can be large or small, friendly or
sinister. They tend to wear green jackets, while the Solitary Faery
wear red jackets. They can range from the Heroic Faery to the dangerous
and malevolent Sluagh. They dwell in underground kingdoms or across the
deepest seas.
In many cultures like those in Scandinavia and Scotland, they
subdivided the aristocracy into good and evil. However, there is no
distinction between the good and evil faeries in Wales and Ireland.
They were called the Tylwyth Teg (Fair Family) and the Daine Side
(Dwellers of the Faerie Mounds) respectively. The Irish have the most
complete accounts of the trooping faeries hidden within their many
songs and folktales
The second basic classification was between the Seelie and the Unseelie
courts. The Seelie, or Blessed, Court was made up of fey who were
neutral, or benevolently inclined towards humans, and who represented
the powers of regeneration and growth. However, although the Seelie
were the 'good' fey, they were believed to be just as capricious and
often as amoral as the Unseelie. The Unseelie were the 'bad' fey, those
which were malevolently inclined towards humans and represented the
powers of death and entropy.
Both courts included both the trooping faeries, also often called
elves, and the solitary faeries.
In common usage, 'Seelie' often refers to the trooping faeries of the
Seelie court.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seelie"
.................................................................................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
........................................................................................
..........................................................................................
>
> 1 Baldwin VI of Flanders
> ----------------------------------------
> Death: 1070[1]
> Occ: Count of Flanders 1067-1070, Count of Hainault
> Father: Baldwin V 'of Lille' of Flanders (-1067)
> Mother: Adela of France (-1097)
>
> Count of Flanders 1067-1070
> Count of Hainault (as Baldwin I)
>
> re: his wife:
>
> Richilda, countess of Hainault (widow of Hermann of Hainault)
>
> ' Richeldis comitissa ', founded the abbey of Saint-Denis en
> Broqueroie, 1081 together with her son Count Baldwin
> [ Cartulaire de l'abbaye de Saint-Denis en Broqueroie, fol. 10,
> verso][2]
.............................................................................................
(quote)
Abbaye de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie
Abbaye bénédictine,
fondée en 1081 par
des moines de La Sauvemajeure en France.
Aujourd'hui :
du bâtiment principal, il ne reste que des murs ;
des constructions plus récentes ont été restaurées.
Site de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie
http://www.abbayes.net/hier/benedictins/stdenis_en_b.htm
.............................................................................................
ABBAYE de
SAINT-DENIS-
en-BROQUEROIE
L'abbaye bénédictine de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie était située à
Saint-Denis près de MONS (Comté de Hainaut, province du même nom) en
Belgique. Placée sous la protection de Saint-Denis (martyr), elle fut
fondée sous la règle de Saint-Benoit (avec l'appui de moines de
Sauvemajeure près de Bordeaux) en 1081 (époque de floraison de
nouvelles abbayes) à l'initiative de Richilde, Comtesse de Hainaut,
elle perdura jusqu'à sa mise en vente à la Révolution française.
Pour en savoir un peu plus, n'hésitez pas à parcourir ces quelques
pages :
L'abbaye bénédictine de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie était située à
Saint-Denis près de MONS (Comté de Hainaut, province du même nom) en
Belgique. Placée sous la protection de Saint-Denis (martyr), elle fut
fondée sous la règle de Saint-Benoit (avec l'appui de moines de
Sauvemajeure près de Bordeaux) en 1081 (époque de floraison de
nouvelles abbayes) à l'initiative de Richilde, Comtesse de Hainaut,
elle perdura jusqu'à sa mise en vente à la Révolution française.
Pour en savoir un peu plus, n'hésitez pas à parcourir ces quelques
pages :
Une promenade dans le site verdoyant de l'ancienne abbaye
Comment s'y rendre
Quelques images d'aujourd'hui et d'hier sur Saint-Denis
Les grandes dates de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie
Documents pour une histoire de l'Abbaye de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie
Les derniers temps de l'Abbaye
Liste des abbés de Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie
Cartes dont celle de 1619 du fonds Mercator
Le refuge de l'Abbaye de Saint-Denis à Mons
Sources bibliographiques et liens
Le fonds d'écran est une photo d'une pierre tombale de la
Collégiale Sainte-Waudru à Mons, représentant des moines
Editorial du Président :
Bienvenue sur notre nouveau site INTERNET. Notre modeste souhait est de
proposer une présentation synthétique de l'histoire de l'Abbaye de
Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie. Ayant connu le site de
Saint-Denis-en-Broqueroie en 1963-1964 lors d'un camp (de travail) du
Patro de Jemappes, nous avons pris goût à cet endroit et à son
histoire.
Ce site pourrait connaître d'autres développements par exemple des
liens avec d'autres sources ou associations, ... Vos suggestions sont
les bienvenues.
Au plaisir de vous lire.
Ces quelques textes ont spécialement été puisé à la Bibliothèque
centrale de l'Université de Mons-Hainaut (anc. Bibliothèque centrale
de Mons). Un grand merci à ses aimables collaboratrices et
collaborateurs.
Philippe REUL (Président de l'ASBL "Mons-grande Ville")
Editeur responsable : Philippe REUL, 34, av. de Conception, 7020 NIMY.
E-Mail : Philippe REUL
Dernière révision faite le : 25/05/2006
Copyright ©1998 "MGV-asbl"
http://membres.lycos.fr/saintdenis/
................................................................................
.................................................................................
Art Neuendorffer
>
> Some Oxfordians love to confuse Bilton with Wilton.
> Could it possibly have been the same place?
http://humphrysfamilytree.com/Herbert/wilton.html
http://uk2.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?X=410000&Y=130000&gride=&gridn=&width=700&height=400&client=M6&db=hcgaz&scale=50000&multimap.x=361&multimap.y=131
On the N bank of the River Nadder,
at the village of Wilton,
just W of Salisbury, Wiltshire
http://www.hunimex.com/warwick/opc/maps/bilton.jpg
http://uk2.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=450000.299941723&Y=275000.23721815&width=700&height=400&gride=448686.299941723&gridn=273019.23721815&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=100000&in.x=5&in.y=8
http://uk2.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&GridE=-1.78980&GridN=52.20800&lon=-1.78980&lat=52.20800&search_result=Billesley%2C%20Warwickshire&db=freegaz&lang=&keepicon=true&place=Billesley%2C%20Warwickshire&pc=&advanced=&client=public&addr2=&quicksearch=BILLESLEY&addr3=&scale=100000&addr1=
http://uk2.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=415000.045222088&Y=256000.248442577&width=700&height=400&gride=414460.045222088&gridn=256661.248442577&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=25000&up.x=293&up.y=4
--------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
Art Neuendorffer
>
>>
>> Some Oxfordians love to confuse Bilton with Wilton.
>> Could it possibly have been the same place?
.(The Ardens) arranged with Thomas Trussell of Billesley to
. act as Trustee for some of the property with the aim of
. assuring it's descent.
.
http://www.billesleymanor.co.uk/history.asp
.
<<Billesley Manor has a history which dates back to a Saxon settlement
of 705. The Billesley Manor was listed in the Domesday Book of 1086 and
was in the hands of the Trussell family for over four hundred years.
During this time the Black Death caused the demise of the village of
Billesley itself. William Shakespeare was a frequent visitor, very
probably wrote "As you like it" here and historians argue, was married
in the Church of All Saints, Billesley. At the end of the sixteenth
century Sir Robert Lee - later Lord Mayor of London - bought the estate
and constructed the stone building which is now Billesley Manor.>>
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wnyc.org/new/togo/shorts/chapters/holden.html
.
<<Mary was the youngest of eight daughters of the widowed Robert Arden,
whose second marriage in April 1548 (to Agnes Hill, née Webbe, widow of
another prosperous farmer) added four stepchildren to the substantial
brood already crammed into the two-storey Wilmcote farmstead.>>
.
. http://www.denverpost.com/books/chap260.htm
.
Mary [Arden] came from Wilmcote, a hamlet on a ridge of grassy land in
Aston Cantlow parish where meadows rose to 400 feet at the Alne Hills
and stone was quarried to repair Stratford's bridge. Billesley, near
Wilmcote, once had seventeen peasants and eight slaves; the Trussell
family held its manor in declining circumstances which included the
sentencing to death of one [Thomas] Trussell for highway robbery.
. however,
"the Dictionary of National Biography does not mention [Trussell's]
. indiscrestion at Bromley & has Thomas living until 1625"
. - p.713 _The Mysterious William Shakespeare_ Ogburn
------------------------------------------------------------
Art Neuendorffer
lyra
Art Neuendorffer wrote:
>
> > Laila Roth wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Some Oxfordians love to confuse Bilton with Wilton.
> >> Could it possibly have been the same place?
> .
...............................................................................................................................
I found some nice pages about Bilton,
then realised they were the WRONG Bilton!
I'm sending them anyway, because I like them...
and note - there is a mysterious inscription never deciphered!
(quote, excerpts)
St. Helen's Church stands where the York, Wetherby, and Bilton roads
meet. It is an ancient edifice of limestone, in the Norman style of
architecture, and was erected in 1166 as an appendage to Syningthwaite
nunnery. It consists of nave, with north, south, and central aisles. On
the south side is a Norman porch, and a bell turret for two bells, but
apparently there has never been more than one. The door on the north
side of the north aisle, where the excommunicated were to pass out, is
built up, but is still visible.
Part of a Runic cross, of great antiquity, found in the west gable end
in 1870, now stands on a corbel inside the church. According to Sir
Gilbert Scott it belongs to the time of the Confessor. The font also is
the work of a very early period. In 1870 part of a massive oak eagle
lectern was unearthed, and is now in use. It is supposed to have been
the work of the 13th century. In the south aisle of the chancel is the
recumbent figure of an abbess, dating from the reign of Edward I.
Bilton Hall is a large plain house, just outside the west of the
village, and occupied by C. B. Lamb, Esq.
Bilton Grange, a farm house about a mile from the village, has an
interesting stone porch, several stones of which have evidently formed
part of some ancient religious edifice, probably from Syningthwaite
nunnery, which existed in former times in the neighbourhood. At the
north side of the house is a highly ornamented Norman doorway, and
several old windows. A few years ago several skulls were dug up near
the house, betokening a grave yard in former days, most likely that of
the convent, which was called Chapel Garth.
One of the above stones bears the following inscription
HP
RESTAURAVIT
AD 1791.
Under this is a scroll bearing the following letters, which, as yet,
have not been explained -
PLESVRIEIIFAITSIOARMIS
...........................................................................................................................................
In 1150, Bertram Haget here founded the Priory of Syningthwaite, for a
Prioress and 12 nuns of the Cistercian order. It was dedicated to the
Blessed Virgin, and the grant was confirmed by the lord of the manor,
Roger de Mowbray, and by the Archbishop of York, Godfrey de Ludhane.
The priory possesses considerable lands, rents, &c., in the county, and
the advowson of the church at Bilton. At the Dissolution its revenues
were of the clear annual value of £60 9s. 2d., and the site was
granted in 1539 to Sir Thomas Tempest, Knight. The remains of this
establishment are moated round, and enclose an area of 459 acres 3
roods 21 perches, according to Ordnance Survey.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/ARY/Bilton/Bilton90.html
.........................................................................................................................................
But, yesterday we left them snoozing by the Aga, and took a walk along
Bilton Lane as far as Bilton Hall.
The rain didn't deter us.....we even managed to get further than the
Gardener's Arms without stopping....Bilton still feels like a village,
even so close to Harrogate centre and spring certainly felt as if it
had arrived......everything green...in fact, you could almost hear the
roots pushing through the soil....
When we reached Bilton Hall gates we had to turn around and head home -
but I have discovered the route of a circular walk which included
Knaresborough - so given more time, we will tackle that another time!
By the way - if you were up Bilton Lane on a bike this weekend....I
didn't mean to call you 'odd'.
http://www.blogstoday.co.uk/bloghome.aspx?username=Kathy
..........................................................................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
...............................
Et in Arcadia Ego
(anagrams)
..........................................
and I create Iago
and I act - O, I agree!
...........................................................
lyra
..........................................................................................
>
> one thing I 've noticed is the first name of the
> "Saxon Lady of the Manor" -
>
> .
>
> Richeldis
>
> .
>
> doesn't seem a Saxon name to me,
>
> it is, though, found in the Merovingian family tree -
>
> is it a clue, I wonder,
> to a deciphering of a mystery.
>
> .............................................................
one of the other Richeldis's
(also written Richildis, Richilda)
is the sister-in-law of
Matilda of Flanders,
Queen of England
(married to William the Conqueror)
....................................................
and this Richeldis
was twice left a widow,
linking to Richeldis de Faverches,
a Lord's widow.
.........................................................................
............................................................................
references
1.
.........................................................................................
Baldwin V, Count of Flanders
Baldwin V of Flanders (died September 1, 1067) was Count of Flanders
from 1036 until his death.
He was the son of Baldwin IV of Flanders, who died in 1035. He, in
turn, is a descendant of Elfrida (d. 949), daughter of Alfred the
Great, Saxon King of England.
In 1028 Baldwin married Adela Capet (Alix), daughter of King Robert II
of France; at her instigation he rebelled against his father but in
1030 peace was sworn and the old count continued to rule until his
death.
During a long war (1046-1056) as an ally of Godfrey the Bearded, Duke
of Lorraine, against the Holy Roman Emperor Henry III, he initially
lost Valenciennes to Hermann of Hainaut. However, when the latter died
in 1049 Baldwin married his son Baldwin VI to Herman's widow Richildis
and arranged that the sons of her first marriage were disinherited,
thus de facto uniting the Count of Hainaut with Flanders. Upon the
death of Henry III this marriage was acknowledged by treaty by Agnes de
Poitou, mother and regent of Henry IV.
>From 1060 to 1067 Baldwin was the co-Regent with Anne of Kiev for his
nephew-by-marriage Philip I of France, indicating the importance he had
acquired in international politics.
Baldwin and Adela had four children:
Baldwin VI, 1030-1070
Matilda, c.1031-1083 who married William the Conqueror
Robert I of Flanders, c.1033-1093
Henry of Flanders c.1035
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_V%2C_Count_of_Flanders
............................................................................................................................................
2.
Baldwin VI of Flanders (1030 - July 17, 1070) was briefly Count of
Flanders, from 1067 to 1070. He was also (as Baldwin I) count of
Hainaut from 1051 to 1070.
He was the eldest son of Baldwin V of Flanders and Adela Capet, a
daughter of king Robert II of France.
In 1051 he married Richilde, Countess of Mons and Hainaut, widow of
count Hermann of Mons. By this marriage Flanders took control of the
county Hainaut (at that moment still a conglomerate of the county of
Mons, the margraviate of Valenciennes and the southern county out of
the Brabant shire).
Baldwin's early death left Flanders and Hainaut in the hands of his
young son Arnulf III, with Richilde as regent. The countship was soon
usurped by Baldwin's brother Robert the Frisian, who became count
Robert I of Flanders. The young Arnulf III was killed the next year at
the Battle of Cassel and Baldwin's younger son eventually became
Baldwin II of Hainaut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_VI%2C_Count_of_Flanders
.......................................................................................................................................................
lyra
There is something wrong with the story here,
as another source gives Baldwin as the first husband,
Herman as the second,
and adds a third, William Fitzosbern.
(quote)
Richildis de Hainault
Born: about 1034
Marriage (1): Baudouin VI, 1st Count of Flanders and Hainault in 1055
Marriage (2): Herman Count of Hainault about 1060
Marriage (3): William Fitzosbern about 1070 in Flanders
Died: March 15, 1086 at age 52
Buried: Hasnon Abbey, France
.................................................................................................................
...................................................................................................................
.....................................................................................................................
lyra
(quote, excerpts)
William fitzOsbern (cir 1020 - February 22, 1071), Seigneur de
Breteuil, was a relative and close counsellor of William the Conqueror
who became one of the great magnates of early Norman England. He was
created Earl of Hereford in 1067, one of the first peerage titles in
the English peerage.
In 1070 trouble arose in Flanders, where king William's brother-in-law
Baldwin VI of Flanders had died, leaving his county and his young sons
in the hands of his widow Richilde, Countess of Mons and Hainaut.
Her control of Flanders was challenged by the brother of her late
husband, Robert the Frisian. Looking for help, she offered herself in
marriage to fitzOsbern.
He could not resist the chance to become also count of the rich
principality in the German Empire, close to Normandy. He hurried with
his army, but nevertheless was defeated by the Count of Flanders:
fitzOsbern lost his life in the Battle of Cassel on February 22, 1071.
fitzOsbern married first Adeliza, daughter of Roger I of Tosny. One
assumes that he also married Richilde shortly before the Battle of
Cassel.
He was succeeded in Normandy by his eldest son, William of Breteuil,
and in England and Wales by his younger son, Roger de Breteuil. His
daughter Emma married Ralph de Gael, 1st Earl of Norfolk .
He lived in Carisbrooke Castle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_fitzOsbern
.............................................................................................................................................................