is Maid Marian from the Vavasour family?
lyra
this links her, oddly, to the Earl of Oxford
and Anne Vavasour...
I know Art has written of the idea
that the de Vere family are linked to
the Robin Hood legend.
I found this by chance while looking at the
link of Maid Marian to
the Fitzwalters
after writing The Gherardinis of Florence, the Mona Lisa, The Aeneid
("The Wizard Earl of Kildare")
.....................................................................................................................................
Maud's first marriage makes her a
Fitzwalter,
traditional name for Maid Marian,
before her second marriage
to Fulke Fitzwarin.
............................................................................
Maud Le VAVASOUR
Born: ABT 1176, probably Yorkshire, England
Died: BEF 1226
Notes: Fulke Fitzwarin was born about 1169 in Hertfordshire, England.
The book by Maurine Keen, "The Outlaws of Medieval Legend",
includes a chapter on the story of the Romance of Fulke Fitzwarin, and
several chapters on the Robin Hood ballads.
Fulke was married to Maude le Vavasour.
The true-life story of Maude's relationship with Fulke Fitzwarin is
very similar to the legend of Robin Hood and Maid Marian.
Maude's parents were Sir Robert le Vavasour and Julian De Ros.
Father: Robert Le VAVASOUR (Sir High Sheriff)
Mother: Juliana De ROS <ROS.htm>
Married 1: Theobald Le Botiller FITZWALTER (Lord of Preston)
<BUTLER.htm> ABT 1199
Children:
1. Theobald Le BOTILLER (Chief Butler of Ireland) <BUTLER.htm>
2. Maud BUTLER <BUTLER.htm>
3. Beatrice BUTLER (b. ABT 1198)
................................................................................................................................................................................
Married 2: Fulke FITZWARIN 1 Oct 1207
Children:
4. Mabel FITZWARIN (m. John De Tregoz)
...............................................................................................................................................................................
....................................................................................................................................
......................................................................................................
lyra wrote:
(on another thread)
..............................
I like "Keeper of the Forrest", and isn't there a link to Robin Hood
or Maid Marian
(Fitzwalter) ?
.....................................................................................................
.........................................................................................................................................................
Walter FITZOTHER of Windsor (Keeper of the Forrest)
Acceded: 1100
Died: BEF 1116
Notes: Some sources show he married Beatrice and some Gladys daughter
of the Prince of North Wales.
Listed in the Domesday Book 1087. Fitzother was not Constable of
Windsor as Windsor was a royal forest until 1066 when William I started
construction of Windsor Castle.
At the time of the Survey in 1086,
Walter Fitzother held a compact group of manors as tenant-in-chief of
the King in the counties of Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Hampshire,
Middlesex, and Surrey.
He also held Winchfield in Hampshire from
Chertsey Abbey and a royal manor and some woodlands at Windsor.
.............................................................................................................
Father: Dominus OTHER
Mother: ¿?
Married 1: Gwaladus VERCH RHIWALLON
.............................................................................................................
Children:
1. William FITZWALTER of Windsor (Constable of Windsor Castle)
Married 2: Beatrice ?
Children:
2. Gerald De WINDSOR (Constable of Pembroke Castle) <FITZGERALD1.htm>
3. Robert FITZWALTER of Little Easton
4. Maurice FITZWALTER
5. Reginald FITZWALTER
http://www.tudorplace.com.ar/WINDSOR.htm#Dominus%20OTHER
.........................................................................................................................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
Maud Vavasour (Maid Marian?)
is an ancestress of famous persons,
including
(quote)
Maud le VAVASOUR
Born: abt. 1176 Died: by 1226
Lady Diana's 20-Great Grandmother.
Geo Washington's 16-Great Grandmother.
..................................................................................................................
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~jamesdow/s029/f502266.htm
...................................................................................................................
(quote)
lyra
(quote, excerpts)
Robin Hood probably was a mythical character, first introduced into
England in connection with the May-Day celebrations.
The earliest record of a "Robin" associated with such festivities is in
the rustic plays given at Whitsuntide in France in the 13th century.
The hero was called Robin des Bois (Robin of the Woods). An old English
spelling of "wood" was whode, which could easily
have become hode, or hood.
At any rate, in the 15th century and later the May-Day celebrations in
England were called "Robin Hood's Festivals."
Garlands of flowers, a Maypole, morris dances, archery contests, and
bonfires were features of the celebrations.
Robin Hood was king of May, and Maid Marian was his queen.
Robin Hood Candidates
We all know there is very little known about the 'real Robin Hood'. Did
he ever exsist?
Is he a compilation of several incidents and/or figures in medieval
England? Are there a number of Robin Hood Candidates? Who's to tell?
Alan W. Wright has a great homepage about Robin Hood, called: Robin
Hood - Bold Outlaw of Barnsdale and Sherwood.
I took some of his Robin Hood Candidates and pasted them here. You can
read more about them at Alan's site. Here's a short version:
One of the earliest surviving ballads is A Gest of Robyn Hode. In the
Gest, a "comely" king named Edward is travelling around the country.
He meets Robin Hood, pardons him, and Robin goes to work in his court.
15 months later, Robin goes broke, gets bored,
and returns to his outlaw life.
http://www.missgien.net/misc/films/robin.html
.............................................................
the following site has quotes from novels,
referring to Robin Hood
(and quotes referring to Shakespeare)
lyra
the meaning of the name...
...............................................................................................................................................
(quotes)
Vavasour
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the feudal rank. For the Vavasour family, see
Vavasour (family).
A vavasour, (also vavasor, Old French vavassor, vavassour, French
vavasseur,
LL. vavassor, probably from vassus vassorum "vassal of the vassals") is
a term in Feudal law.
A vavasour was the vassal or tenant of a baron, one who held their
tenancy under a baron,
and who also had tenants under him.
Also written vavasour, vavassor, valvasor, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vavasour
.............................................................................................
Vavasour (family)
>From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Vavasour family are an English Catholic family whose history dates
back to Norman time,
and featuring on the Battle Abbey Roll.
The family lived at Hazlewood Castle from the time of the Domesday Book
until 1908.
[edit]
History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vavasour_%28family%29
............................................................................................
Thomas VAVASOUR
Biography
Name Thomas VAVASOUR (VAVYSOR)
Gender Male
Primary occupation medical physician (MD) (Physician. ?F of Clare 1539)
Period of medical practice 1538-1578
Place of birth England (of Spaldington, Yorks (son of Sir Peter
Vavasour))
Date of death 1578
Address York & Hull 1574. Otley 1578
Other notes Ca 153* BA 1536 MA 1538. MD Venice. LRCP 1556 (2 years
only). RC, often in trouble over religion.
College membership
Date of BA 1536
Date of MA 1538
Medical education (university) Italy (Padua, Bologna, Ferrara, Venice)
Date of MD not known
Date became Licentiate 20/11/1556
Other notes Ca 153*.MD Venice.L 2 yrs only
Date of death 1578
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=17892
............................................................................................
Thomas Vavasour
English Catholic physician, pensioner of St. John's College, Cambridge,
b. about 1536-7; d. at Hull, 2 May, 1585.
On 25 June, 1549, at the disputations held before the king's
commissioners at Cambridge, Vavasour was one of the disputants in
favour of Transubstantiation and the Sacrifice of the Mass.
He subsequently went to Venice where he took the degree of M.D., and on
20 Nov., 1556, he received a licence from the College of Physicians of
London to practise for two years. His house was "by the common school
house" in the city of York; there Mass was said in 1570. In 1572 he was
accused of having entertained Blessed Edmund Campion. In Nov., 1574,
after he had been confined to his own house in the city of York for
nearly nine months, he was sent into solitary confinement in the Hull
Castle.
Grindal describes him as "sophistical, disdainful, and illuding
arguments with irrision, when he was not able to solute the same by
learning", and adds that "his great anchor-hold was in urging the
literal sense of hoc est corpus meum, thereby to prove
transubstantiation".
By June, 1579, he was back again in his house, where Mass was again
said. Later on he was in the Gatehouse, Westminster, from which he was
released on submitting to acknowledge the royal supremacy in religious
matter; but he was again imprisoned as a recusant in Hull Castle, York
where he died. His wife, Dorothy, died in the New Counter, Ousebridge,
York, 26 Oct., 1587.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15316b.htm
.............................................................................................
lyra
lyra wrote:
.................................................................................................................................
(quote)
In the footsteps of Robin Hood
Home | The legend | The outlaw from Barnsdale
The Lancastrian revolutionary | The king's servant | The Merry Men
Other candidates | Robin's death | Find out more
Other candidates
The earliest ballads about Robin Hood have given us a picture of a
historical suspect, Robert Hood of Wakefield, who (as Robyn Hod) may
have ended up working for Edward II after the Lancastrian revolt of
1322. However, as in all the best detective stories, the neatest of
solutions can be upset by a single clue. Suddenly evidence turned up
that pointed to an even earlier Robin.
Aliases
An historian discovered the existence of a man who had lived in
Maxfield in East Sussex in 1291 who was called Gilbert Robynhood. This
was an extremely rare surname and seemed to imply that the name was
already known as some sort of nickname.
Then more and more people called Robynhood, Robinhood or Robinhud
started to pop up. But these weren't just random individuals. A very
high proportion of them had at some time in their lives committed
criminal acts. There's even one case where a clerk of the court changed
a man's surname from 'Le Fevre' to 'Robinhood' because he was an
outlaw. Later Robin Hood became a common criminal alias. This doesn't
mean that any of these men are candidates for the real Robin. It just
proves that people knew about him some years before Robert Hood was
living and working in Wakefield.
So, where does that leave our prime suspect? Well, it is still likely
that he's the Robin of the ballads, but the ballads aren't about the
original Robin.
Historians then went scurrying off and came up with another Robert Hood
active in 1225 - an outlaw who had been fined 32s 6d at the York
assizes. But there's no record of him doing anything like the Robin of
the stories. Randomly picking out Robin Hood-type names from the
records didn't seem to be leading anywhere.
However, there were medieval figures whose lives did match the famous
stories. They just weren't called Robin Hood.
Fulk Fitz Warine
The best example is a story that starts in the reign of Richard
Lionheart with a dispute over the ownership of Whittington Castle in
Shropshire. Born in 1170, Fulk Fitz Warine (also spelled 'Warin' and
'Waryn') was brought up as a companion to the royal children, including
Henry II's son John. There was bad blood between Fulk and John, and as
they grew older, they became enemies.
In 1197, the 27-year-old Fulk inherited Whittington Castle from his
father. However, Sir Morys Fitz Roger coveted Whittington, and he
turned to the king for help. John - who ascended the throne in 1199
- gave the castle and its lands to Morys. Fulk protested and his
brother John struck Sir Morys between the eyes. Trumped-up charges of
treason were made and Fitz Warine and his companions were outlawed. For
three years, they operated a guerrilla campaign in the forests along
the Welsh border.
The stories that grew up about him are eerily similar to those we
associate with Robin Hood. Not only does Fitz Warine have a right-hand
man called John, he also extracts money from people by inviting them to
supper and then getting them to pay. He takes shelter with a local
knight and kills his sworn enemy in the forest. And when the king comes
to the forest in disguise, Fitz Warine is pardoned.
Sound familiar? Could this man from Shropshire be a new prime suspect
whose name became changed throughout the course of history? He may not
be as famous as Robin Hood, but he was certainly significant: the real
Fulk Fitz Warine was to become a leading figure among the barons who
forced King John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215.
A mishmash
Perhaps there never was an historical Robin Hood. Perhaps the stories
are just a mishmash of old legends. But if that's the case, why bother
inventing Robin Hood at all? Why not just stick with Fulk Fitz Warine
and have all the stories about him? Or maybe there actually was a man
such as Robyn Hod, the king's porter, or Robert Hood of Wakefield to
whom a lot of stories were tacked on.
But there is a third possibility. Suppose both the Fulk Fitz Warine
stories and the Robin Hood ballads are based on an even earlier figure?
Robert Fitz Odo
The modern story is set in the reign of Richard Lionheart (1189-99),
when Robin is also called 'Robin of Loxley'. Because of the northern
connections in the ballads, historians always assumed this meant the
Yorkshire Loxley. But there is another Loxley - in Warwickshire, near
Stratford-upon-Avon. And here the trail leads us to the ancestor of one
of the Norman invaders who came over with William the Conqueror.
In 1193, the lord of Loxley manor was Robert Fitz Odo (also known as
Fitzooth), a descendent of Bishop Odo of Bayeux, the half-brother of
William and the man who commissioned the Bayeux Tapestry. Because
'Fitz' indicated an illegitimate descendant, it was sometimes dropped,
which would leave 'Robert Odo' - effectively another Robert Hood.
A 12th-century charter exists in which Robert Fitz Odo granted lands to
the priory of Kenilworth. The Register of Arms of 1196 states that Fitz
Odo was no longer a knight - but he wasn't dead. There's a record of
a Robert Fitz Odo alive in nearby Harbury seven years later, in 1203,
although he seems to have been stripped of his title. He became an
outlaw, robbing people and generally causing trouble in the surrounding
woodlands. He was finally given back his lands when Richard Lionheart
returned from the Crusades. So to quite a degree he does match the
Robin Hood of the modern legend.
Pagan spirit
There's another angle to the Robin Hood story. For that, we have to
return to Sherwood Forest and to Southwell Minster.
When the medieval stonemasons finished the cathedral, they decided to
leave an exhibition piece in the octagonal chapter house. The highest
form of the stonemason's art was to carve leaves in stone that had the
lightness and delicacy of nature. And interwoven into the fabric of
this Christian meeting house is the ancient pagan spirit of the
greenwood, the so-called 'Green Man'.
Another name for the spirit of the greenwood was Robin Goodfellow.
Could this Robin be the inspiration behind the mythic hero of Sherwood
Forest? Perhaps this pagan version of Robin appeals most to us in the
21st century.
Robin Hood was inextricably connected with May Day celebrations. The
earliest record of a 'Robin' associated with such festivities is in the
rustic plays performed at Whitsuntide in France in the 13th century.
The hero was called Robin des Bois (Robin of the Woods). An old English
spelling of 'wood' is whode, which could easily have become 'hode' or
'hood'. By the 15th century, May Day celebrations in England were
called 'Robin Hood's festival'. Robin Hood was king of the May and Maid
Marian was his queen.
'Robin Hood-type stories,' says medieval survival expert Richard
Rutherford-Moore, 'have been with us since probably the end of the last
ice age, about 35,000 years ago, but they have been added to and taken
away from since then. The Robin Hood that we know now is not the Robin
Hood that we would have known if he were standing here in the 10th,
11th or 12th century. He's now cast as a preservationist, a
conservationist, to look after the greenwood.'
..................................................................................................................................
What you can see now
Whittington Castle, Shropshire
Dating mainly from 1221, the remains that stand today are only part of
the original castle, representing the outer bailey and gatehouse. In
fact, the gatehouse was reconstructed less than 200 years ago, and the
rest of the (crumbling) remains are in very poor condition.
On the A495, 3 miles north-east of Oswestry. OS ref: SJ3231.
Alberbury, Shropshire
It is said that, in 1256, Fulk Fitz Warine was buried at the 'White
Abbey' here, which he had had built as the final resting place of a
holy relic. His wife is also supposed to be interred here. The 'abbey'
might be Alberbury Priory, the remains of which - which include a
striking saddleback tower - are incorporated a mile north-east of the
village.
Off the B4393, 8 miles west of Shrewsbury. OS ref: SJ3514.
Loxley, Warwickshire
St Nicholas's church - which is next to what was Loxley manor - may
be part Saxon. Its tower is certainly 13th century. The grave slab in
the churchyard (see picture) may mark the final resting place of Robert
Fitz Odo.
On a lane between Charlecote and Stratford-upon-Avon, about 1 mile west
of the A429, 4 miles south-east of Stratford. The church is normally
closed to the public. OS ref: 2552.
Southwell Minster, Nottinghamshire
The great cathedral of St Mary the Virgin is the most perfect survival
of a great Norman church in England. The imposing twin towers of the
west front were erected in 1108, and their simple architecture
continues throughout the nave, porch, transepts and tower. The original
eastern end was rebuilt in 1234. The chapter house, added 60 years
later, is famous for its superb foliate carvings. In the minster's
library is the so-called 'Robin Hood's drinking flask', a leather
pocket flask of a type popular in the 16th century.
On the A612, 6 miles west of Newark-on-Trent. OS ref: SK702537.
...........................................................................................
Find out more
Websites
The History of Fulk Fitz-Warine
www.blackmask.com/books47c/fulkfitzdex.htm
The legend of this outlaw hero of the Welsh Marches.
Robin Hood, a local hero?
www.shropshirestar.com/news/dailyfeature/
publish/article_4810.shtml
Article by Danny Blackburn of the Shropshire Star, which examines the
truth behind the stories about Fulk Fitz-Warine. He also reveals that
the poet, broadcaster and children's writer Michael Rosen has created a
new ballad about Fulk that he performs - once at Whittington Castle
itself.
Robin Hood's Castle?
www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/history/
2003/08/restoration_4.shtml
Interesting article from BBCi on the history of Whittington Castle,
including the recent restoration work carried out by the Whittington
Castle Preservation Trust.
Channel 4 is not responsible for the content of third party sites
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/n-s/robin06.html