Hamlet Play: Young Fortinbras's Father

[craigshoemake...@gmail.com]

Topic: Hamlet Play: Young Fortinbras's Father

In my readings, some authors believe that young Fortinbras's father, before he died, was the King of Norway; and, others believe that young Fortinbras father was the brother of King Norway.

I'm curious, assuming anyone bothers to think about these small details -- which, quite likely, are not overly important -- what you all think, and of couse, why?

These questions concernt the second quarto, the first folio, or a combination of both.

Here is an initial set of questions concerning Fortinbras's father:

(1) Was he the King of Norway when he died?
(2) Was he the King of Denmark when he died?
(3) Was he the King of something when he died? If so, what was this something he was king of if you know or have a guess?
(4) He was never the King of anything? If so, what was his title if you wish to venture a guess?

Here is a side thought, just to straighten out a little some other character's roles:

(5) When the protagonist Hamlet's father overcame young Fortinbras's father and killed him, what role or title did this elder Hamlet have: no title, duke, prince, king of something?


Here are some quotes from the play. I have added some notes. But, I cannot determine any thing definitively.


i.i.62
Marcellas: Is it not like the King?
Horatio:
As thou art to thyself.
Such was the very armour he had on
When he th'ambitious Norway combated.
So frown'd he once, when in an angry parle
He smote the sledded Polacks on the ice.
'Tis strange.

Notes: Prince Hamlet's father combated the King of Norway this seems to suggest; however, this may not be the same battle wherein Prince Hamlet's father killed young Fortinbras's father.

i.i.83
Horatio:
That can I.
At least the whisper goes so: our last King,
Whose image even but now appear'd to us,
Was as you know by Fortinbras of Norway,
Thereto prick'd on by a most emulate pride,
Dar'd to the combat; in which our valiant Hamlet
(For so this side of our known world esteem'd him)
Did slay this Fortinbras, who by a seal'd compact
Well ratified by law and heraldry
Did forfeit, with his life, all those his lands
Which he stood seiz'd of to the conqueror;
...
Now, sir, young Fortinbras,
Of unimproved mettle, hot and full,
...

Notes: the phrase, "by Fortinbras of Norway" does not suggest that Fortinbras is being suggested as the King of Norway.

i.ii.17
Claudius:
...
Now follows that you know young Fortinbras,
Holding a weak supposal of our worth,
Or thinking by our late dear brother's death
Our state to be disjoint and out of frame,
Colleagued with this dream of his advantage,
He hath not fail'd to pester us with message
Importing the surrender of those lands
Lost by his father, with all bonds of law,
To our most valiant brother. So much for him.
Now for ourself, and for this time of meeting,
Thus much the business is: we have here writ
To Norway, uncle of young Fortinbras -
Who, impotent and bedrid, scarcely hears
Of this his nephew's purpose - to suppress
His further gait herein, in that the lievies,
The lists, and full proportions are all made
Out of his subject; and we here dispatch
You, good Cornelius, and you, Voltemand,
For bearers of this greeting to old Norway,
Giving to you no further personal power
To business with the King more than the scopre
Of these dilated articles allow.
Farewell, and let you haste commend your duty.

Notes: the above passage establishes at the time of this speech that King Norway is the uncle of young Fortinbras; but, I have yet to find text which supports the belief that the current King of Norway popped in between the hopes of election of young Fortinbras to be king (as young Fortinbras may have been quite young when his father died, assuming, indeed, that young Fortinbras father was the King of Norway).

ii.ii.58
Claudius:
Well, we shall sift him.
Welcome, my good friends.
Say, Voltemand, what from our brother Norway?
Voltemand:
Most fair return of greetings and desires.
Upon our first, he sent out to suppress
His nephew's levies, which to him appear'd
To be a preparation 'gainst the Polack;
But better look'd into, he truly found
It was against your Highness; whereat griev'd
That so his sickness, age, and impotence
Was falsely borne in hand, sends out arrests
On Fortinbras; which he, in brief, obeys,
Receives rebuke from Norway, and, in fine,
Makes vows before his uncle never more
To give th'assay of arms against your Majesty:
Whereon old Norway, overcome with joy,
Gives him three thousand crowns in annual fee
And ...

Notes: "brother Norway" means the King of Norway. This text suggests also that young Fortinbras is the nephew to the King of Norway.

v.ii.390
Fortinbras:
Let us haste to hear it,
And call the noblest to the audience.
For me, with sorrow I embrace my fortune.
I have some rights of memory in this kingdom,
Which now to claim my vanage doth invite me.

Notes: Well, it certainly seems that Fortinbras has no problem in thinking that he has arrived "home" at last. Does he think that his father was previously King before the Hamlet family moved in?



Thanks,
Craig

Postscript:
Here are unimportant quotes, but they show the use of the nation name to mean the King of that nation.

iv.iii.61
Claudius:
...
And England, if my love thou hold'st at aught -
...
By letters congruing to that effect,
The present death of Hamlet. Do it, England;
For like the hectic in my blook he rages.
...

Notes: "England" means the King of England.

v.ii.20
Hamlet:
...
Larded with many several sorts of reasons
Importing Denmark's health, and England's too,
With ho! such bugs and goblins in my life,
That on the supervise, no leisure bated.
No, not to stay the grinding of the axe,
My head should be struck off.

Notes: "Denmark" means the King of Denmark; "England" means the King of England.

v.ii.38
Hamlet:
An earnest conjuration from the King,
As England was his faithful tributary,
As love between them like the palm might flourish,
...

Notes: "England" means King of England.

[craigshoemake...@gmail.com]

Hi,

I was looking through wikipedia, and this time in Denmark, during Shakespeare's life and before, was rather unsettled in many ways.

In broad brush strokes over hundreds of years, many wars, brothers fighting brothers or cousing, and so forth, spanning across Denmark, Norway, and Sweden.

So, in this post, the question I asked may not be answerable in tight, factual terms.

But, of course, I understand the general "outline" that Shakespeare suggested in the play:

(1) First, we have a Fortinbras era.
(2) Then we have a Hamlet era.
(3) And then the play ends with the beginning of a new Fortinbras era.

Thanks,
Craig

[Willedever]

As best I can tell from the dialogue:

The Elder Fortinbrasse was not King of Norway. His "emulate pride" that Horatio mentions was his ambition to emulate his brother by becoming a king (of his own kingdom, not Norway.) The challenge to single combat, from Elder Fortinbrasse to King Hamlet, was apparently an attempt by the Elder Fortinbrasse to gain enough land to form a kingdom of his own (by gaining some land independent of his brother's control, in Norway.)

Elder Fortinbrasse, King of Denmark, no. He was a nobleman of Norway.

King of something, no. Elder Fortinbrasse's attempt to become a king, of his own kingdom, is what got him killed, as he fought to win more land.

Elder Fortinbrasse was probably, oh, the Duke of Northern Zealand (at a time, we take it, when that area was under Norwegian control, in the fictional world of the play.) King Hamlet, as King of Denmark, had possession of southern Zealand. Perhaps. That would have made the single combat a fight to gain all of Zealand.

At the end of the play, when Fortinbrasse speaks of "rights of memory" it means Elsinore Castle was once the ruling seat of his father's dukedom.

Not that Shakespeare bothered too much with actual geography. He was doing theater, not a travelogue. But the above matches what the play says, fairly well.

King Hamlet's battle against Norway is different from the single combat against the Elder Fortinbrasse. What apparently happened, is that after King Hamlet killed the Elder Fortinbrasse, and took that formerly-Norwegian land, the King of Norway attacked Denmark, to try to regain the land and get revenge for his brother's death. (Which provides an implicit instance of the Revenge Theme, during pre-play events.) But King Hamlet won again, defeating Norway.