Similes in Latin
Thomas J. Farish
the wind", or "That blanket smells like a wet dog"? My Pocket Oxford
hints at the use of the words similis or assimilis + the dative.
Any suggestions, amici et amicae?
-tjf
--
Thomas J. Farish, ScD
tj...@lanl.gov
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Matthew Montchalin
| How does one construct a simile in Latin? For example, "He runs like
| the wind", or "That blanket smells like a wet dog"? My Pocket Oxford
| hints at the use of the words similis or assimilis + the dative.
| Any suggestions, amici et amicae?
Try using ut clauses and quam clauses. Ceu is possible also, but is
post-classical. Furthermore, judicious use of nouns in apposition to each
other also are bound to help.
He runs like the wind.
Quam celer ruit ventus, tam celer currit ille.
"However fast the wind rushes, he too runs just as fast."
He is a man who smells a pretty penny just like a cat smells a mouse.
Est vir qui nummum olfacit ceu feles murem olfacit.
Well, um, except the conjunction 'ceu' is post-classical. Maybe 'ut'
would make for a better conjunction.
Robert Stonehouse
>How does one construct a simile in Latin? For example, "He runs like
>the wind", or "That blanket smells like a wet dog"? My Pocket Oxford
>hints at the use of the words similis or assimilis + the dative.
>Any suggestions, amici et amicae?
For the second, I'd suggest 'Lodix iste canem olet madidum'. For the
first, perhaps, 'Currit ventis velocius'. But these just get round
your question by avoiding any word meaning 'like'. Mind, the Romans
might often do that.
How about 'sicut'? Sallust Catiline 2.8, 'multi mortales ... vitam
sicuti peregrinantes transegere', 'many mortals have conducted their
life as if they were on a journey'. It introduces a clause; you can
usually leave the verb out, but the cases have to allow for the fact
that a verb is to be understood. So 'currit sicut venti', that is,
as the winds (run).
ew...@bcs.org.uk
francis bw james
all-purpose dictionaries site. Go for English into Latin, feed in `like`,
and you will see what the problem is, I think. As Robert says, `he runs like
the wind` presumably implies an unstated verb; sicut does it, but there are
other ways of getting round it. (Basically sicut is an adverb, similis an
adjective.)
Part of the trouble is, like, that we tend to use the word `like` in a lot
of different ways, not all of which necessarily imply similes !
Thomas J. Farish <tj...@lanl.gov> wrote in message
news:tjff-06109...@mamie.lanl.gov...
> How does one construct a simile in Latin?
Phillip David Weaver
Gildersleeve.
decimus...@my-deja.com
You may just be looking for help with your Latin homework! - but if you
are searching for information on how similes were used in ancient times
then the following might be useful.
During the 1880's the classical scholar A. Sidgwick edited a number of
short books for the Cambridge University Press that subsequently came
to be known as 'schoolboy editions' (they were isolated books of longer
works containing notes/vocabulary for younger scholars). It used to be
common to find reprints in second hand bookstores in the Europe.
In his introductions to those books of Virgil that he edited (I think
he was responsible for 4 or 5 book while another scholar handled the
others) he made a point of listing all similes used within the book and
then categorizing some of the key features of Virgil's similes.
His use of language is somewhat distant from our own and you may need
to study his comments carefully to understand the point he is making -
but with these qualifications it still remains an excellent analysis.
His key point was that Virgil used similes in his poetry for a
completely different type of effect from poets in the modern world -
and he backs this up with examples from the book under study.
If you are carrying out a contrastive study of the differences between
the simile in modern and ancient times, you could not go to a better
initial starting point for information.
Sidgwick read a million times more classical literature than anyone
does today - so he has great insight into the significance of an author
selecting one particular expression from among the various alternative
ways he could have used to express the same idea.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
francis bw james
Phillip David Weaver <phil...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7ti41c$moa$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> One goes to Amazon.com and purchases Latin Grammar, 1868, by B.L.
> Gildersleeve.
...... thanks for reminding us, Philip; in fact it`s the ultimate fount of
all wisdom on things grammatical, for me. Have just checked with Amazon, and
yep, not that cheap nowadays but still going strong, under a new editor, one
Briggs, as well as Gildersleeve and in my case Lodge (1948 edition I got
second hand years ago). Can`t be many text-books published without a break
for over 130 years !
For those who haven`t met it (and I am aware of the danger of teaching
elderly relatives to extract yokes ) everything, but everything, is
illustrated with examples from classical authors, often, it seems to me,
with a touch of humour as a means of lightening an otherwise pretty heavy
load.
On `conditional sentences of comparison`, for instance, it is hard to beat
the first two examples given:
`don`t be afraid, as if you were giving a penny to an elephant`.
`noli timere quasi assem elephanto des`. (Quint.VI.3.59)
`babies, when first born, lie there as if they had no mind at all.`
`parvi primo ortu sic iacent tamquam omnino sine animo sint`.(C., Fin.)
Typical father`s comment; and the first must beg the question: what did the
elephant do with the penny ?
(Incidentally, no section dedicated to similes as such, that I can see.)
frank
The Sidgwick intros also, O Decime, sound great; one can complain that
Virgil nicked the idea from Homer, but his extended similes are still
terrific !
I think it was the same guy who wrote at least one of our composition books
in my distant schooldays - in fact probably called `Latin Verse Composition`
? Anyone confirm ? and if so is it still used ?
Paris
>
> His key point was that Virgil used similes in his poetry for a
> completely different type of effect from poets in the modern world -
> and he backs this up with examples from the book under study.
>
Virgil is in a league of his own when it comes to Latin similes. I'm
currently writing an article on one of his most famous ones, a comparison of
the waves of the ocean to a riotous mass of people (Aen. 1.148 ff):
ac veluti magno in populo cum saepe coorta est
seditio saevitque animis ignobile vulgus
150 iamque faces et saxa volunt, furor arma ministrat;
tum, pietate gravem ac meritis si forte virum quem
conspexere, silent arrectisque auribus adstant;
ille regit dictis animos et pectora mulcet:
sic cunctus pelagi cecidit frangor.
Neptune is calming the sea, and is compared to a statesman who with his mere
presence is mitigating the angry mob: it is the reverse of what is usual
(Il. 2.144 ff.; Cic. Clu. 138, Livy 28.27.11)--the comparison of a mass of
people to a stormy sea.
Matthew Montchalin
| I'm currently writing an article on one of his most famous ones,
| a comparison of the waves of the ocean to a riotous mass of people
| (Aen. 1.148 ff):
|
| ac veluti magno in populo cum saepe coorta est
| seditio saevitque animis ignobile vulgus
Gotta love at least a little of that alliteration... :)
| 150 iamque faces et saxa volunt, furor arma ministrat;
| tum, pietate gravem ac meritis si forte virum quem
| conspexere, silent arrectisque auribus adstant;
| ille regit dictis animos et pectora mulcet:
| sic cunctus pelagi cecidit frangor.
So long as you are going to edit it, you ought to supply caesuras at all
the right places, and then abandon all those commas. That way it would
be a little easier to read out loud (which way Vergil was most certainly
intended). :)
| Neptune is calming the sea, and is compared to a statesman who with his mere
| presence is mitigating the angry mob: it is the reverse of what is usual
| (Il. 2.144 ff.; Cic. Clu. 138, Livy 28.27.11)--the comparison of a mass of
| people to a stormy sea.
Thanks! :) Very nice illustration.
And for what it's worth, Andrews & Stoddard (1874) equate parabolas
with similes, and state in their Grammar, "Section 324, 30. Parabola
or simile is the comparison of one thing with another; as, /Repente te,
tamquam serpens e latibulis, oculis eminentibus, inflato collo, tumidis
cervicibus, intulisti./ Cic."
So long as we are on the subject of the merciless dissection of figures
of speech (ahem, what Andrews & Stoddard refer to as "Tropes") and
deigning to assign them names to live and die by, they managed to come up
with the following horrifying categorizations:
324.1 (a) Metaphor
(b) Catachresis or abusio
324.2 Metonymy
324.3 Synecdoche
324.4 Irony
324.5 Hyperbole
324.6 Metalepsis
324.7 (a) Allegory
(b) Aenigma
324.8 Antonomasia
324.9 Litotes
324.10 Antiphrasis
324.11 Euphemism
324.12 Antanaclasis
324.13 Anaphora or Epanaphora
324.14 Epistrophe or Conversio
324.15 Symploce
324.16 Epanalepsis
324.17 Anadiplosis
324.18 Epanalepsis
324.19 Epanados or Regressio
324.20 Epizeuxis
324.21 Climax or Gradatio
324.22 Incrementum
324.23 Paronomasia
324.24 Paregmenon
324.25 Paronomasia or Agnominatio
324.26 Homoepropheron or Alliteration
324.27 Antithesis
324.28 Oxymoron
324.29 Synonymia
324.30 Parabola or Simile
324.31 Erotesis
324.32 Epanorthosis
324.33 Aposiopesis, Reticentia, or Interruptio
324.34 Prosopoeia or Personification
324.35 Apostrophe
324.36 Paraleipsis
324.37 Epiphonema or Acclamatio
324.38 Ecphonesis or Exclamatio
324.39 Aporia, Diaporesis, or Dubitatio
324.40 Prolepsis
but I bet they forgot a few they could have dreamed up, had they not been
in such a hurry to write a book on Latin grammar perplexed with Greekish
names for their various figures of speech.
Catiline
demagogues we have in this little town, who take a calm crowd of
responsible citizens and whip them up into a debased throng who brandish
torches and stones.
Harrumph!!
decimus...@my-deja.com
"francis bw james" <poj...@globalnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I think Sidgwick wrote `Latin Verse Composition` -
> ? Anyone confirm ? and if so is it still used ?
I cannot confirm regarding 'Latin' - but in my library of second hand
books I have picked up over the years I do have the following.
An introduction to GREEK PROSE COMPOSITION with exercises by Arthur
Sidgwick, Longmans.
An introduction to GREEK VERSE COMPOSITION with exercises by Arthur
Sidgwick and F. D. Morice, Longmans/Green & Co.
From the previous ownership of the books, they were clearly still being
used at schools in the UK for prospective Oxford/Cambridge university
entrants until the early 1970's - but I suspect that they then fell
into disuse as the UK classical curriculum became less rigorous.
Both these works have an interesting publishing history that may make
them difficult to trace today. According to the PUBLISHERS NOTE after
the author's preface - the entire stock of both books was destroyed by
enemy action in December 1940 and it was several years before the
publisher was able to reconstruct new editions.
Interestingly, the editions that I have contain no date of first
publication or previous impressions - and I suspect that information
relating to publication history may have been lost forever.
Regards, DJ
francis bw james
<decimus...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:7tjvdp$v0c$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> An introduction to GREEK PROSE COMPOSITION with exercises by Arthur
> Sidgwick, Longmans.
>
> An introduction to GREEK VERSE COMPOSITION with exercises by Arthur
> Sidgwick and F. D. Morice, Longmans/Green & Co.
Thanks for that - I had never heard of the near loss of Sidgwick`s books !
It must have been in Gk rather than Latin classes, in that case, that we
suffered him; memory playing up - again. Sad, though, that men of such
erudition almost all felt compelled to write with such aridity; I don`t
think it did much good for the study of Classics in the end. But maybe
Oliver Taplin, Peter Jones et all will be similarly regarded in years to
come.....
frank
Edwin P. Menes
OCD, or even Cassell.
Matthew Montchalin
| *ceu* is post-Classical in prose, not in poetry. Cf. citations in L & S,
| OCD, or even Cassell.
Um, okay.
Say, what do you think is the etymological history underlying the
conjunction ceu?
Does the c correspond to the Latin h in hic/haec/hoc, or even the -ce
in compounds like hice, hisce, ecce, huc, illuc, tunc, &c? The dyphthong
eu doesn't pop up that much in Latin. Where do you think ceu came from?
(Somehow the u sound makes me think of ut, but that suggestion could be
mere coincidence. For instance, compare seu (from sive), and that has
nothing to do with ut.)
Robert Stonehouse
...
>An introduction to GREEK PROSE COMPOSITION with exercises by Arthur
>Sidgwick, Longmans.
>Both these works have an interesting publishing history that may make
>them difficult to trace today. According to the PUBLISHERS NOTE after
>the author's preface - the entire stock of both books was destroyed by
>enemy action in December 1940 and it was several years before the
>publisher was able to reconstruct new editions.
In the early 1950s I suffered under pre-war editions and never knew
it had so nearly been bombed into oblivion! I would have cheered.
ew...@bcs.org.uk