Lucretius 11

[Alastor]

In good old England, in Victorian times, when sex was considered to be
a necessary evil, young wives were urged to 'Lie back and think of
England'. In Rome, however, it was "Bend forward and think of Rome."
That at least is what Lucretius urges:

et quibus ipsa modis tractetur blanda voluptas,
id quoque permagni refert; nam more ferarum
quadrupedumque magis ritu plerumque putantur
concipere uxores, quia sic loca sumere possunt,
pectoribus positis, sublatis semina lumbis. (IV, 1263-7)

[Paraphrase: it's very important to consider how you get your
satisfaction, for wives are thought to be best impregnated in the
manner of animals and quadrupeds, because that's how they receive the
seed, breasts down and loins lifted.]

He is careful to distinguish however between wives and courtesans.
Courtesans may do it the way men apparently prefer, lying flat on
their backs:

....ipsa viris Venus ut concinnior esset;
coniugibus quod nil nostris opus esse videtur. (IV,1276-7)

[Paraphrase: so that their very love-making might be more pleasant to
men, which however doesn't seem necessary for our wives.]

But don't think is just some patronising, male chauvinist that's
talking here - this is someone who genuinely values marriage as both a
civic institution and as a vehicle for true love. Book IV ends with a
beautiful couplet, in which the domestic union of man and wife is
expressed symbolically as a gentle, persistent and ultimately
successful partnership:

nonne vides etiam guttas in saxa cadentis
umoris longo in spatio pertundere saxa? (IV,1286-7)

[Paraphrase: don't you see how even droplets of water falling over a
long time can break through stone?]

Lucretius appears to have been a gentle, loving man, whose
'scientific' ideas sometimes were not very dignified or ennobling, but
who practised decency and moderation in his daily affairs and who
overstepped the boundaries of mediocrity in the genius of his art.

This series of posts on De Rerum Natura has not excited much interest
and this will be my last post on this subject. I thank Ed and the
others who have given me something back in return for my efforts. Much
appreciated.

[Ed Cryer]

"Alastor" <ros...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dce9bbc2-f133-4b77...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

Have you ever read Tennyson's poem on Lucretius' madness?

There's a story that goes back to St Jerome that he was driven mad by a
love potion administered to him by his wife. She was, apparently, highly
distressed by all the time he was giving to poetry and celibacy, and
tried to get him back.

Ed

P.S. Things in this group do not excite much interest; and certainly not
at the higher level of appreciation that you've been hitting.
I for one greatly appreciate all you've done here. And if you ever want
to do something similar, then it'll still be here.

[Alastor]

On Mar 27, 5:09 am, "Ed Cryer" <e...@somewhere.in.the.uk> wrote:
> "Alastor" <ross...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> to do something similar, then it'll still be here.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Thanks for that. I've enjoyed it hugely but it has taken time from
other things I must do and the topic is not generating enough energy
there to draw me in further. I'll keep going with my researches into
Lucretius in private. I'll be back with any issues I need help with.
And I'll be sticking my nose in there from time to time to see what
else is happening. Cheers.