Homer, Sappho, Olive Oil
Menippos
olive oil as the "golden liquid" or "liquid gold" or some such.
I have been scanning the Iliad and some Sappho fragments
but am unsuccessful in finding specific cites. Any thoughts
that spring to mind?
(I am not writing a cookbook. I merely want to interpose a
palatable pinch of pedantry into the next (literal) symposium
I participate in. Roman references would be useful as well,
strictly for the benefit of the relatively déclassé symposiasts,
of course.) ;-)
Menippos
Odysseus
include any Sappho, but plenty of Homer) for "olive oil" I found only
the following attributes:
euôdes elaion -- "fragrant ~", _Iliad_ ii.237;
de lip'elaiwi ambrosiwi edanwi to ra oi te8uwmenon -- "with ~,
ambrosial, soft, and fragrant", _Iliad_ xiv.170; and
hugron elaion -- "soft ~", _Odyssey_ vi.79, vi.214, vii.105.
I tried searching for "gold" and "golden", but their only occurrences
in association with liquids appear to be describing the vessels
containing them.
--Odysseus
Ed Cryer
"Odysseus" <odysseu...@yahoo-dot.ca> wrote in message
news:3EEC6EA1...@yahoo-dot.ca...
Homer is fond of the phrase "chrusee; en le;kutho; hugron elaion"
(liquid olive-oil in a golden flask).
You find it, eg, In Od.VI at lines 79 and 215.
Ed
Robert Stonehouse
wrote:
>A colleague has mentioned that Homer and Sappho refer to
>olive oil as the "golden liquid" or "liquid gold" or some such.
>I have been scanning the Iliad and some Sappho fragments
>but am unsuccessful in finding specific cites. Any thoughts
>that spring to mind?
>
under any of the chrys- words, and no elai- words at all.
In Liddell and Scott under elaion the colour mentioned is leukon
(white) or leukotaton. But the second of these at least seems to refer
to an oil of specially high quality. It might be called 'the whitest
oil' in contrast with other oils, not because whiteness was
characteristic of olive oil in general. Indeed, the whitest oil might
be distinctly yellow in comparison with water.
>(I am not writing a cookbook. I merely want to interpose a
>palatable pinch of pedantry into the next (literal) symposium
>I participate in. Roman references would be useful as well,
>strictly for the benefit of the relatively déclassé symposiasts,
>of course.) ;-)
The Romans used olive oil for lighting. I don't know if the Greeks
did. The earliest example in Liddell and Scott of 'lampas' meaning an
oil lamp is Matthew 25.3, the wise and foolish virgins. I have a
reproduction Roman lamp which burns like a candle on olive oil, once a
wick has been fitted. On paraffin it produces far too big a flame and
smokes the place out.
Robert Stonehouse
>olive oil as the "golden liquid" or "liquid gold" or some such.
>I have been scanning the Iliad and some Sappho fragments
>but am unsuccessful in finding specific cites. Any thoughts
>that spring to mind?
>
under any of the chrys- words, and no elai- words at all.
In Liddell and Scott under elaion the colour mentioned is leukon
(white) or leukotaton. But the second of these at least seems to refer
to an oil of specially high quality. It might be called 'the whitest
oil' in contrast with other oils, not because whiteness was
characteristic of olive oil in general. Indeed, the whitest oil might
be distinctly yellow in comparison with water.
>(I am not writing a cookbook. I merely want to interpose a
>palatable pinch of pedantry into the next (literal) symposium
>I participate in. Roman references would be useful as well,
>strictly for the benefit of the relatively déclassé symposiasts,
>of course.) ;-)
The Romans used olive oil for lighting. I don't know if the Greeks
Menippos
Ed Cryer wrote in message ...
Thank you very much for those cites. I didn't find them while searching
Perseus but perhaps I have entered the words incorrectly. I seem to
have indifferent success with Perseus.
I was looking for a hugros xrusos sort of phrase with various permutations
of cases, hoping that the words need not be contiguous which would be
unmetrical. No hits. Dormitat Homerus? Aut collega meus? Aut
egomet? ;-)
Thanks again.
Menippos
Menippos
Robert Stonehouse wrote in message <3eed64e...@news.cityscape.co.uk>...
>On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:34:42 -0400, "Menippos" <Menip...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>>A colleague has mentioned that Homer and Sappho refer to
>>olive oil as the "golden liquid" or "liquid gold" or some such.
>>I have been scanning the Iliad and some Sappho fragments
>>but am unsuccessful in finding specific cites. Any thoughts
>>that spring to mind?
>>
>Using the index to Lobel and Page, I can't find anything in Sappho
>under any of the chrys- words, and no elai- words at all.
>
>In Liddell and Scott under elaion the colour mentioned is leukon
>(white) or leukotaton. But the second of these at least seems to refer
>to an oil of specially high quality. It might be called 'the whitest
>oil' in contrast with other oils, not because whiteness was
>characteristic of olive oil in general. Indeed, the whitest oil might
>be distinctly yellow in comparison with water.
Perhaps the translation "clear", "clearest" i.e. free from impurities
is the intended meaning? Though a lover of olive oil, I am not
expert in the various tinctures. Greeks and Italians have different
palates as to the olive and the grape as I have discovered. To wit,
there is no Italian wine I would disdain, but retsina I cannot
abide. I'd drink a bottle of Ephialtes 480 BC before I'd touch another
drop of that vile resinated stuff. Philhellenism has its limits. Of
course, then again it's cheap and you can sing very sensuous
enharmonics unter its influence. A pythagorean vintage? ;-0
>
>>(I am not writing a cookbook. I merely want to interpose a
>>palatable pinch of pedantry into the next (literal) symposium
>>I participate in. Roman references would be useful as well,
>>strictly for the benefit of the relatively déclassé symposiasts,
>>of course.) ;-)
>
>The Romans used olive oil for lighting. I don't know if the Greeks
>did. The earliest example in Liddell and Scott of 'lampas' meaning an
>oil lamp is Matthew 25.3, the wise and foolish virgins. I have a
>reproduction Roman lamp which burns like a candle on olive oil, once a
>wick has been fitted. On paraffin it produces far too big a flame and
>smokes the place out.
So long as you don't put paraffin on your salad, Robert! ;-) I would
love to get hold of a lamp or two like that. I have a lamp that is intended
for paraffin (USA: kerosene) (one of those log cabin type of things that
Lincoln learned the law under its light) and indeed it is very smoky. I've
never tried olive oil in it. There must be a special grade of the stuff
strictly for ambient illumination. I would not dip my wick in the extra
virgin, mind you now. :-)
Menippos
Robert Stonehouse
wrote:
>Robert Stonehouse wrote in message <3eed64e...@news.cityscape.co.uk>...
>>On Sat, 14 Jun 2003 21:34:42 -0400, "Menippos" <Menip...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>The Romans used olive oil for lighting. I don't know if the Greeks
>>did. The earliest example in Liddell and Scott of 'lampas' meaning an
>>oil lamp is Matthew 25.3, the wise and foolish virgins. I have a
>>reproduction Roman lamp which burns like a candle on olive oil, once a
>>wick has been fitted. On paraffin it produces far too big a flame and
>>smokes the place out.
>
>So long as you don't put paraffin on your salad, Robert! ;-) I would
>love to get hold of a lamp or two like that. I have a lamp that is intended
>for paraffin (USA: kerosene) (one of those log cabin type of things that
>Lincoln learned the law under its light) and indeed it is very smoky. I've
>never tried olive oil in it. There must be a special grade of the stuff
>strictly for ambient illumination. I would not dip my wick in the extra
>virgin, mind you now. :-)
Any time you are in Rome, the various ecclesiastical sights sell
reproductions of Roman lamps from the Museo Vaticano. That was where I
got mine - the catacombs, I think. In 1955 or so.
If your kerosene lamp smokes, the wick may need trimming, or perhaps
just turning down. A ragged edge on the wick is sure to smoke. Have
you got the right glass chimney for the type of lamp? If not, it may
not be letting enough air in, or not at the right point. I wouldn't
try olive oil in a lamp designed for kerosene - it is much thicker and
would probably gum up the works. My smoke problem arose from trying
kerosene in a lamp designed for olive oil.
Pressurised lamps (Aladdin etc.) and any lamp with a mantle would
certainly be ruined by any such experiment! I don't know what Lincoln
used.
Where I live, there is a top-grade kerosene for domestic lighting and
cooking which is more agreeable than the ordinary burning oil. Usually
dyed some special colour for identification. But I would expect the
ordinary stuff to work well enough - just a bit smelly. Avoid Tractor
Vaporising Oil, which is basically kerosene but contains a lot of
aromatics. It is meant for use in engines, not for burning. Very
smelly indeed - might even be dangerous.
George Durbridge
ew...@bcs.org.uk (Robert Stonehouse) wrote:
> Any time you are in Rome, the various ecclesiastical
sights sell
> reproductions of Roman lamps from the Museo Vaticano. That
was where I
> got mine - the catacombs, I think. In 1955 or so.
Also in Athens: they used to (and very likely still do) sell
reproduction lamps in the tourist traps in the Plaka, near
the museum in the reconstructed Stoa of Attalos in the Greek
Agora, where a number of ancient lamps are described as
having burnt olive oil.
> Avoid Tractor Vaporising Oil,
> which is basically kerosene but contains a lot of
> aromatics. It is meant for use in engines, not for
burning. Very
> smelly indeed - might even be dangerous.
It sounds very dangerous: how much does it take to vaporise
a tractor?
Robert Stonehouse
<gdur...@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>On Sat, 21 Jun 2003 16:58:09 GMT
>ew...@bcs.org.uk (Robert Stonehouse) wrote:
>> Avoid Tractor Vaporising Oil,
>> which is basically kerosene but contains a lot of
>> aromatics. It is meant for use in engines, not for
>>burning. Very
>> smelly indeed - might even be dangerous.
>
>It sounds very dangerous: how much does it take to vaporise
>a tractor?
Oh, several tons, I should think, for a job like that. (Pedantically,
it vaporises inside the engine cylinder, to create an explosion that
drives the piston, just like gasoline.)
But I would expect it to produce a substantial quantity of heavy,
flammable vapor, as gasoline does and most kerosene does not. At Fire
Appreciation Courses I have attended (we all stood round and applauded
while the professionals set light to things) they show how, if you put
a jar of gasoline on a table, a layer of vapor gradually spreads
across the table-top and a very distant light or spark can cause an
explosion. TVO might do that, I think.
But by now this way of powering tractors is probably totally obsolete.
Elizabeth Young
> Robert Stonehouse wrote:
>>The Romans used olive oil for lighting. I don't know if the Greeks
>>did. The earliest example in Liddell and Scott of 'lampas' meaning an
>>oil lamp is Matthew 25.3, the wise and foolish virgins. I have a
>>reproduction Roman lamp which burns like a candle on olive oil, once a
>>wick has been fitted. On paraffin it produces far too big a flame and
>>smokes the place out.
>
> So long as you don't put paraffin on your salad, Robert! ;-) I would
> love to get hold of a lamp or two like that. I have a lamp that is intended
> for paraffin (USA: kerosene) (one of those log cabin type of things that
> Lincoln learned the law under its light) and indeed it is very smoky. I've
> never tried olive oil in it. There must be a special grade of the stuff
> strictly for ambient illumination. I would not dip my wick in the extra
> virgin, mind you now. :-)
>
>
there is a modern sort of lamp designed to burn olive oil. It uses a
copper element and a cotton wick. I've seen the parts for sale, and the
lamps, on line at Lehmans.
Paraffin/kerosene lamps are less smoky when the wick is trimmed and not
turned up too high.
- liz young