Aias or Ajax ?
Tones
Greek hero, Aias . Why do you call him "Ajax" [eidzaeks] ?
I and my friends once discussed it , and realized the reason of sound
"eidz". But the problem remained was the transformation of "-as"
into "aeks", not only in the sounds but also in its form .
Regards, 90deg.F and very damp here , huu .
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## TOSHIYUKI SAITO
## sai...@onyx.dti.ne.jp
######################
William C Waterhouse
> Another question I have been worried for a long time is the name of
> Greek hero, Aias . Why do you call him "Ajax" [eidzaeks] ?
First, though the usual Greek form was "Aias", the only form
found in Latin is "Aiax". Modern European languages took
a number of familiar Greek names from their forms in Latin.
(The two words really are different, the first having
root "Aiant..." and the second having root "Aiac..."
If I read LSJ correctly, there was some Greek author
who also used the form "Aiax".)
That accounts for the "x". As I gather the writer already
noticed, the change from "i" to "j" in the spelling corresponds
to a general (late) change in pronunciation of the Latin "i" when
used as a consonant. Once like English "y" in "you", it acquired
some kind of fricative component (heard differently now in different
languages).
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
Dick Wisan
>
>In article <eP785.1914$_R5.1...@newsall.dti.ne.jp>,
>"Tones" <sai...@onyx.dti.ne.jp> writes:
>> Another question I have been worried for a long time is the name of
>> Greek hero, Aias . Why do you call him "Ajax" [eidzaeks] ?
>
>First, though the usual Greek form was "Aias", the only form
>found in Latin is "Aiax". Modern European languages took
>a number of familiar Greek names from their forms in Latin.
>
> (The two words really are different, the first having
> root "Aiant..." and the second having root "Aiac..."
> If I read LSJ correctly, there was some Greek author
> who also used the form "Aiax".)
How was that terminal "x" pronounced --by Greek authors or Latin?
--
R. N. (Dick) Wisan - Email: wis...@catskill.net
- Snail: 37 Clinton Street, Oneonta NY 13820, U.S.A.
- Just your opinion, please, ma'am: No fax.
David Booton
chi), because their version of the word didn't contain the x; the Romans
transliterated the Greek and came up with Ajax by adding the x at the end.
Robert Stonehouse
>In article <8k05n4$o...@r02n01.cac.psu.edu>, w...@math.psu.edu says...
>>In article <eP785.1914$_R5.1...@newsall.dti.ne.jp>,
>>"Tones" <sai...@onyx.dti.ne.jp> writes:
>>> Another question I have been worried for a long time is the name of
>>> Greek hero, Aias . Why do you call him "Ajax" [eidzaeks] ?
>>
>>First, though the usual Greek form was "Aias", the only form
>>found in Latin is "Aiax". Modern European languages took
>>a number of familiar Greek names from their forms in Latin.
>>
>> (The two words really are different, the first having
>> root "Aiant..." and the second having root "Aiac..."
>> If I read LSJ correctly, there was some Greek author
>> who also used the form "Aiax".)
>
>How was that terminal "x" pronounced --by Greek authors or Latin?
This is a very well-known name and presumably came into Latin early,
at a time when they were fairly rough and ready in carrying over
Greek words. They needed something they could decline normally as a
Latin noun. In later, more sensitive ages they might have followed
the forms of the Greek declension, or perhaps made it indeclinable.
There are not many choices ending in -as in the Latin nominative
singular masculine. The abstract nouns derived from adjectives, like
dignitas, are (I think all) feminine.
Apart from that there is mas, maris, undoubtedly masculine, but they
seem to have preferred to make Aias like the (commoner) adjectives
derived from verbs, rapax, edax etc., which automatically produce
rapacis, edacis in the genitive.
That would mean -ax was pronounced as -acs, the c-stem coming
immediately before the third declension nominative -s.
ew...@bcs.org.uk
Dmitry Sheinin
Robert Stonehouse <ew...@bcs.org.uk> wrote in message news:3964ce64...@news.cityscape.co.uk...
>
> This is a very well-known name and presumably came into Latin early,
> at a time when they were fairly rough and ready in carrying over
> Greek words. They needed something they could decline normally as a
> Latin noun. In later, more sensitive ages they might have followed
> the forms of the Greek declension, or perhaps made it indeclinable.
>
> There are not many choices ending in -as in the Latin nominative
> singular masculine. The abstract nouns derived from adjectives, like
> dignitas, are (I think all) feminine.
>
> Apart from that there is mas, maris, undoubtedly masculine, but they
> seem to have preferred to make Aias like the (commoner) adjectives
> derived from verbs, rapax, edax etc., which automatically produce
> rapacis, edacis in the genitive.
>
> That would mean -ax was pronounced as -acs, the c-stem coming
> immediately before the third declension nominative -s.
Since Aiant- is the Greek stem, the Romans might have taken it
without changes, it would have declined like participles (laudans,
laudantis), so the nominative would have been "Aians". Thus, the
replacement of -nt- by -c- in the stem seems to remain obscure.