Do these fit together in Latin as Dactylic Hexameter?
Jm Baker
"Hic est locus ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae"
At McGill University, there is an additional phrase added to this:
"Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae nihil sic revocat a
peccato quam frequens mortis mediatio".
Does anyone know if "nihil sic revocat..." is dactylic hexameter and
does its meter fit with "Hic est locus.. "?
Does this sound like an original phrase, or is it just cobbled
together?
Thanks, and yes, I'm still looking for the source of the first quote.
Jim Baker
jimb...@yahoo.com
Kim Bastin
>
> The first part of this phrase is in Dactylic Hexameter:
> "Hic est locus ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae"
No hexameter there.
> At McGill University, there is an additional phrase added to this:
> "Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
This is a hexameter. Switching the words "locus est" makes the line
unmetrical.
> nihil sic revocat a peccato quam frequens mortis mediatio".
> Does anyone know if "nihil sic revocat..." is dactylic hexameter and
> does its meter fit with "Hic est locus.. "?
It's not hexametric, nor any classical metre. It looks like rather lame
rhymed verse:
Nihil sic revocat a peccato
quam frequens mortis meditatio.
I suspect the last word should be "meditatio" not "mediatio": "Nothing
recalls you from sinning like frequent meditation on death".
> Does this sound like an original phrase, or is it just cobbled
> together?
I don't understand what you're asking.
> Thanks, and yes, I'm still looking for the source of the first quote.
Can't help with that. Apparently it is or was frequently printed above the
entrance to pathology labs and the like and widely quoted in connection
with postmortems.
Kim Bastin
Hartmut Gastens
Kim Bastin schrieb:
>
> > Thanks, and yes, I'm still looking for the source of the first quote.
>
Hic locus est, partis ubi se via findit in ambas (Verg. Aen. 6,540)
greetinx
Hartmut
--
*********************************************************
Hartmut Gastens
e-mail: gas...@addcom.de
*********************************************************
Kim Bastin
<gas...@addcom.de> wrote:
>
>Kim Bastin schrieb:
>
>>
>> > Thanks, and yes, I'm still looking for the source of the first quote.
>>
>
>Hic locus est, partis ubi se via findit in ambas (Verg. Aen. 6,540)
Maybe in one sense. But I don't think that's what the original
inquirer meant by "source".
Kim Bastin
Jm Baker
With Kim's translation in hand, an internet search shows "nihil sic
revocat.." as being a quote from St. Augustine.
Would anyone know where in the Augustine literature this appears?
I asked if the phrases went together because the first phrase, "Hic
locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae" is often coupled with
other Latin quotations, as if they were from a single author, such as
the usage at McGill's Pathology lab. One way to weed out additions is
to determine if they fit metrical scheme of "hic locus est..."
For example, the NY City Morgue has the motto as, "Taceant colloquia,
effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae". I've
been told that the first part is also dactylic hexameter, but that is
doesn't scan metrically with "hic locus est..". We found that it was
part of another quote, "Praesente aegroto taceant colloquia, effugiat
risus, namque omnia dominatur morbus".
We still don't know the authors of either "hic locus est..." or
"Praesente aegroto...". The best guess seems to be a classically
trained physician of 19th century Europe.
Jim Baker
Kim Bastin
>Thanks!
>
>With Kim's translation in hand, an internet search shows "nihil sic
>revocat.." as being a quote from St. Augustine.
>
>Would anyone know where in the Augustine literature this appears?
Sorry, no, and the corpus of his works is pretty huge to search
through. A good deal of it is on-line, however, if you feel
enthusiastic. Try doing a Google search with "Augustine texts".
When I did a Google search for "nihil revocat", it returned a quite
different version of this quote, e.g. with "crebra" for "frequens". It
also didn't rhyme, which suggests that the near-rhyme in the version
you quoted is an accident (and indeed I haven't heard that Augustine
wrote verse).
If the quote is inaccurate, this would complicate the search
considerably!
>I asked if the phrases went together because the first phrase, "Hic
>locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae" is often coupled with
>other Latin quotations, as if they were from a single author, such as
>the usage at McGill's Pathology lab. One way to weed out additions is
>to determine if they fit metrical scheme of "hic locus est..."
>
>For example, the NY City Morgue has the motto as, "Taceant colloquia,
>effugiat risus. Hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae". I've
>been told that the first part is also dactylic hexameter, but that is
>doesn't scan metrically with "hic locus est..". We found that it was
>part of another quote, "Praesente aegroto taceant colloquia, effugiat
>risus, namque omnia dominatur morbus".
This looks like prose to me. The first three words _could_ begin a
hexameter, but that's clearly just coincidence.
>We still don't know the authors of either "hic locus est..." or
>"Praesente aegroto...". The best guess seems to be a classically
>trained physician of 19th century Europe.
I suspect it could be much older. Lots of familiar Latin tags, even if
not classical, go back to the Renaissance or further. "Praesente
aegroto...", which deals with appropriate behaviour at the sickbed,
might even be from classical times. We have a good deal of Latin
writing on medicine, including some translated from Greek.
Kim Bastin
Dmitry Sheinin
news:e08cmtobgb1uqjlu8...@4ax.com...> >...
"Praesente aegroto taceant colloquia, effugiat
> >risus, namque omnia dominatur morbus".
>
> This looks like prose to me. The first three words _could_ begin a
> hexameter, but that's clearly just coincidence.
>
> >We still don't know the authors of either "hic locus est..." or
> >"Praesente aegroto...". The best guess seems to be a classically
> >trained physician of 19th century Europe.
>
> I suspect it could be much older. Lots of familiar Latin tags, even if
> not classical, go back to the Renaissance or further. "Praesente
> aegroto...", which deals with appropriate behaviour at the sickbed,
> might even be from classical times. We have a good deal of Latin
> writing on medicine, including some translated from Greek.
"Praesente aegroto taceant colloquia, efugiat risus"
is quoted at http://www.nil.org.pl/gazeta/gl98/07-98-20.htm
(whatever it is); though the text is Polish, it is possible
to see that the quotation is ascribed to Hippocrates.
Well, whatever it may be worth (he of course wrote
in Greek but many his quotations are popular in
Latin translation).
Hartmut Gastens
Jm Baker schrieb:
> Thanks!
>
> With Kim's translation in hand, an internet search shows "nihil sic
> revocat.." as being a quote from St. Augustine.
>
> Would anyone know where in the Augustine literature this appears?
Augustinus Hipponensis - De Genesi contra Manichaeos
Cl. 0265, lib. : 2, col. : 219, linea : 3 [*]
nihil enim sic reuocat homines a peccato, quemadmodum imminentis mortis
cogitatio.
Jm Baker
The only other place on the net is at the Charles University at Hradec
Kralove <http://www.lfhk.cuni.cz/periodik/actamed/39_1/annemece.htm>,
which also says Hippocrates. But so far no one can find it in the
works of Hippocrates.
We asked the classicist at the Library of Congress in Washington, DC
about the quotes and she said it sounded more like an 18th or 19th
century motto. She also said that she is often asked by members of
Congress to translate their favorite saying into Latin or Greek. She
said that she was afraid that in 100 years someone would come in an
ask her successor about an ancient quotation and neither of them would
know that it was a junior Senator from Missouri!