Gold List Questions from New User

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Banjolover47

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Feb 17, 2010, 11:33:39 AM2/17/10
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Прибет !
In my first week of using the Gold List Method, new to Group, and have
a few questions:
1) In the creation of the initial Head-Lists, what is the recommended
frequency of adding a new batch of words? Should one start more than
one in a given day? How many per week? Will this frequency gradually
decrease as you progress, since the words will naturally become more
difficult perhaps?
2) At the end of the 3rd Distillation (when you are left with perhaps
5-6 words under your original Head-List), what do you do with those
words? Do you gather them together from other Head-Lists to form a new
List, which you would distill down to a final group? Would these be
the words that would go into your Gold Book, or do you keep on
Distilling ad infinitum till ideally all the entries are assimilated
into LTM?
3) The Distillation Process: What is the best methodology here? After
the 2-week "incubation" period, I see that you must give yourself some
sort of self-test to see which words you know and which you don't,
right? So would you cover the English and test to see if you know the
"meaning" of the Russian word? Is that enough, or must one also be
able to cover the Russian word - and be able to give it's proper
spelling, stress, and so forth, from looking at the English. This, I
think, would be MUCH more difficult. Also it occurs to me that doing
it one way would sort of disqualify you from doing it the other way,
as the data would now be "tainted", so to speak, by having looked at
the List, exposing it again to the STM.
4) The Numbering System: Am I correct in understanding the numbering
of the INITIAL Head-Lists should remain sequential, so that you can
know what is your running total of new words introduced to the system?
It also seems clear that the numbering of the Distillations in the
2nd, 3rd, and 4th quadrants of your page can be individually numbered,
starting from 1 in each quadrant. So, here's where I get fuzzy: If I
am to form a Head-List from, let's say, 4 Primary Head-Lists, in order
to do another Distillation of those words, how would those words be
numbered? My guess is that since they are not really NEW words to the
system, that they should retain their original number that they were
given in their respective "Primary" Head-List... right? OR... is this
where you are supposed to start a new notebook consisting only of Once-
Distilled (3 times actually), numbering sequentially from 1 again? In
either case, I can see where totally NEW words, when added to the
system, should be numbered in the cumulative sequence of the Primary
Head-Lists, so that you can see the total of your ever increasing
vocabulary. Right?
5) Finally for now: When you get up there, past 1000 or more words, is
it a problem, in adding new words, to avoid duplication? ie. adding a
word that you have already in-puted. Does this even matter in the long
run? Will your long term memory be able to let you know that "Hey,
Dude... You've already had that word back 1200 words ago! What, can't
you remember???!!!"

Hope these questions are not too elementary, but have watched all the
videos, and read what I could find of the Gold List - even read
through all the Archived Threads on this Group - and was not able to
find these questions answered. So any clarification from either the
Membership, or the good Professor Huliganov himself, would be much
appreciated. In advance I'll say Спасибо!

Миша

John Patrickovich

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Feb 25, 2010, 11:15:06 AM2/25/10
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Hi banjoplayer,
Thanks for the personal email. I thought i would answer publicly so
that others could benefit.

First, i would like to say there was a link called www.goldlist.eu
that explained the goldlist in written form, and it was a very clear
explaination. That link is now dead. If anyone knows where it is
located, please post.

I'll preface my answers by saying that i haven't tried the goldlist
yet. My answers are baseed on remembering what i read at www.goldlist.eu
a month or two ago. The reason i haven't tried it is because i've
been on pain medication for a knee surgery, and it just seems like
common sense that i wouldn't get good results. I'm off the pain meds
now, and will be starting my book. I'll post soon to give my
impressions.

Here are your questions:


1) In the creation of the initial Head-Lists, what is the recommended
> frequency of adding a new batch of words? Should one start more than
> one in a given day? How many per week? Will this frequency gradually
> decrease as you progress, since the words will naturally become more
> difficult perhaps?

I beleive it was no more than 10 headlists per day. But remember, as
you begin to distill, your workload will increase.

2) At the end of the 3rd Distillation (when you are left with perhaps
> 5-6 words under your original Head-List), what do you do with those
> words? Do you gather them together from other Head-Lists to form a new
> List, which you would distill down to a final group? Would these be
> the words that would go into your Gold Book, or do you keep on
> Distilling ad infinitum till ideally all the entries are assimilated
> into LTM?

After the third distillation you should be left with 7-8 words. So
take the first 37 third distillation words in your book (#1) and
distill to 25, thus you have your first "book #2 headlist" and then
continue to distill as with book #1.


3) The Distillation Process: What is the best methodology here? After
> the 2-week "incubation" period, I see that you must give yourself some
> sort of self-test to see which words you know and which you don't,
> right? So would you cover the English and test to see if you know the
> "meaning" of the Russian word? Is that enough, or must one also be
> able to cover the Russian word - and be able to give it's proper
> spelling, stress, and so forth, from looking at the English. This, I
> think, would be MUCH more difficult. Also it occurs to me that doing
> it one way would sort of disqualify you from doing it the other way,
> as the data would now be "tainted", so to speak, by having looked at
> the List, exposing it again to the STM.


Look at the Russian word and see if you can translate it into
English. Not sure about spelling. It seems to me at this point to be
sure to know how the word ends, and if there is an unusual plural or
declination. Also you should know what type of conjugation if a verb,
and any irregularities.

4) The Numbering System: Am I correct in understanding the numbering
> of the INITIAL Head-Lists should remain sequential, so that you can
> know what is your running total of new words introduced to the system?
> It also seems clear that the numbering of the Distillations in the
> 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quadrants of your page can be individually numbered,
> starting from 1 in each quadrant. So, here's where I get fuzzy: If I
> am to form a Head-List from, let's say, 4 Primary Head-Lists, in order
> to do another Distillation of those words, how would those words be
> numbered? My guess is that since they are not really NEW words to the
> system, that they should retain their original number that they were
> given in their respective "Primary" Head-List... right? OR... is this
> where you are supposed to start a new notebook consisting only of Once-
> Distilled (3 times actually), numbering sequentially from 1 again? In
> either case, I can see where totally NEW words, when added to the
> system, should be numbered in the cumulative sequence of the Primary
> Head-Lists, so that you can see the total of your ever increasing
> vocabulary. Right?


Your headlists are sequential. Also the 2nd distillation is
sequential, and the 3rd and 4th, etc. So for example, somewhere in
the middle of your book you would see the head list in 600's, the
second dist in the 400's, 3rd dist in the 300's etc.
Your first word of the top left page of book #2 would be word number 1
of the 4th dist. Right?

5) Finally for now: When you get up there, past 1000 or more words, is
> it a problem, in adding new words, to avoid duplication? ie. adding a
> word that you have already in-puted. Does this even matter in the long
> run? Will your long term memory be able to let you know that "Hey,
> Dude... You've already had that word back 1200 words ago! What, can't
> you remember???!!!"


Well it could probably happen, but it would mean that you don't
remember the word. I think a bigger problem will be say, already
knowing an adjective, and passing over a new noun because you thought
you remembered learning it because you know the root. To minimize
these problems, i plan to use a word frequency list to bring in new
words.


Hope this helps. If i have answered a question wrong, i hope that
another user will correct.

Patrick


On Feb 17, 9:33 am, Banjolover47 <michaelj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ðÒÉÂÅÔ !

> appreciated. In advance I'll say óÐÁÓÉÂÏ!
>
> íÉÛÁ

Banjolover47

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Feb 26, 2010, 5:21:36 PM2/26/10
to Huliganov and friends
Thanks for your reply, John. Your answers were very helpful. I like
the idea of using a frequency list as a source for inputting words. I
think there is at least a 5,000 word list available online somewhere
for free. Having a single list like that as a source would sure
simplify things.... as we are usually encountering new words all the
time in either our course work, readings, blogs, etc. Then if you
wanted to throw in short phrases or expressions you certainly could
for variety - and not interfere with your progress through the
frequency list.

Mike

rambles2003

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Feb 28, 2010, 5:48:13 AM2/28/10
to Huliganov and friends

On Feb 25, 4:15 pm, John Patrickovich <11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com>
wrote:


> Hi banjoplayer,
> Thanks for the personal email.  I thought i would answer publicly so
> that others could benefit.
>
> First, i would like to say there was a link called www.goldlist.eu
> that explained the goldlist in written form, and it was a very clear
> explaination.  That link is now dead.  If anyone knows where it is
> located, please post.
>

Hi John Patrickovich,

I had saved a copy of Uncle Davey's Golden List Method to Evernote on
my computer. I've managed to convert it to MS Word format (.doc) and
upload it as a file to this group. All credit to Victor
Dimitrovich.

(Note to Moderator: Unfortunately the file is now showing as my
upload. If you could change the ownership of this file to Victor D.
Huliganov it would be good.)

Peter

John Reid

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Feb 28, 2010, 4:54:16 PM2/28/10
to huli...@googlegroups.com
Banjolover
Here is a list of the 2,000 most common Russian words:
--- On Fri, 2/26/10, Banjolover47 <micha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
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John (Patrick) Curran

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Feb 27, 2010, 10:03:45 AM2/27/10
to huli...@googlegroups.com
Yes absolutely, i agree its a good idea to throw in short phrases and idioms.  Like join us for lunch, would be "compose to us company lunching". 
I like to drive my kids crazy by speaking to them in English using Russian grammar.
 
How far along are you?  Just starting out, or do you already have some vocabulary?
Well, finding Huliganov has been the best thing to happen for me learning Russian.  I already learned grammar by self teaching and tutors.  Now i'm re-learning it because Huliganov's teaching is much clearer, and given with a much broader understanding.
 
For example, i often wonder how to construct a sentence, but Huliganov's advice of just throwing everybody into the dative, even if the subject is eliminated altogether, and knowing this will sound  very natural to a Russian.....this is priceless teaching,  I was never told that by a tutor.  Tutors tend to teach by instinct, but Huliganov is a true linguist, and understands intellectually what's going on at a deep level.   
 
Well, good luck, and feel free to write anytime.
Patrick
 
 

2010/2/26 Banjolover47 <micha...@yahoo.com>
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kenbank

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Feb 28, 2010, 6:55:51 PM2/28/10
to Huliganov and friends
Peter,

Since you modified the document and uploaded it, as far as the system
is concerned, it is your file. I do not recall what format Viktor's
original document was in, but perhaps he would be willing to re-upload
that. In future when you modify a file with the intention of
uploading it back to the group, please rename it accordingly.

Thank you,
Ken Bankston
Moderator, Huliganov and friends

Banjolover47

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Mar 1, 2010, 9:43:03 PM3/1/10
to Huliganov and friends

On Feb 27, 9:03 am, "John (Patrick) Curran"


<11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes absolutely, i agree its a good idea to throw in short phrases and
> idioms.  Like join us for lunch, would be "compose to us company lunching".

> [?]


> I like to drive my kids crazy by speaking to them in English using Russian
> grammar.
>
> How far along are you?  Just starting out, or do you already have some
> vocabulary?


Many thanks, John, for posting the Gold List summary document. It was
very helpful in answering many of my questions about using the method.
As for my progress, I have entered about 7 Headlists into my first
book so far. No distillations yet, as they are still "fermenting". All
but the first 2 Headlists I have derived from a 5000 word frequency
list that I downloaded online. I will continue using this word list as
my source of content. Since I did study Russian for 2 years in
college, about 40 years ago!!, I am surprised to see that I have
actually remembered some of it, so yes, I must have had some vocab
stored in long-term memory from those days. As for grammar study, I
use several good sources, including Huliganov's classes. I have found
a very good online course in systematic grammar out of Australia on
the site Learn2speakrussian.com.
This brings to mind another question about the Gold List theory: If,
during that 2-week to 2-month fermentation or incubation period, one
encounters one of those Headlist words in some lesson or reading or
class, would that not re-introduce the word to the s/t memory. Does
this contaminate the process by which words are assimilated into the l/
t memory. Seems to me that it would be pretty difficult to not revisit
the words in some fashion external to the Gold List System while those
words are "fermenting". Would this even matter in the long run??

John Patrickovich

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Mar 2, 2010, 9:16:16 AM3/2/10
to Huliganov and friends


> This brings to mind another question about the Gold List theory: If,
> during that 2-week to 2-month fermentation or incubation period, one
> encounters one of those Headlist words in some lesson or reading or
> class, would that not re-introduce the word to the s/t memory. Does
> this contaminate the process by which words are assimilated into the l/
> t memory. Seems to me that it would be pretty difficult to not revisit
> the words in some fashion external to the Gold List System while those
> words are "fermenting". Would this even matter in the long run??


I've been wondering about the same thing. I think Huliganov makes it
clear that if you were to encounter a headlist
word during the two week incubation, then you have extended the short
term memory of it another two weeks. Maybe if that
happens, you could immediatly go to the book and re-date that headlist
page? Hopefully it won't happen too often.
It's what i'm planning to do. I think as the vocab becomes more
advanced it will become less of a problem. But thinking about it,
the first couple hundred words of a frequency list would be a major
problem if you are studying grammar at the same time. Maybe
you should wait until you get past the first several hundred before
studying grammar?

Banjolover47

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Mar 3, 2010, 3:17:32 PM3/3/10
to Huliganov and friends
I am not sure where Huliganov clarifies this issue of "re-introduction
during fermentation", as it is not mentioned in the summary .doc you
posted, nor in any of the videos I have watched on UTube. I am just
sort of hoping that many of those first 200 words or so have already
been assimilated by my l/t memory from back when I studied Russian in
college ca. 1968! Today I do my first distillation on Head List
#1..... "Let the games begin!!!"
Mike

On Mar 2, 8:16 am, John Patrickovich <11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 5:41:41 AM3/21/10
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Banjolover47,

Many thanks for these questions. Sorry I was not around for a long
time. T.S. Eliot says "April is the cruellest month", but I guess he
didn't have a February like the one I had. It's only advantage was it
was short. I had to fill in for someone who went who had always been
very secretive about the details of their work. That on top of my
normal work - in three countries - several audit deadlines and my wife
being in hospital for a week.

But I was delighted to see that the other group members in my absence
filled in the gaps. I'll add my answers to John Patrickovich's below,
in order not to duplicate, but just supplement his great response.

Best,

VDH

On Feb 17, 5:33 pm, Banjolover47 <michaelj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ðÒÉÂÅÔ !

> appreciated. In advance I'll say óÐÁÓÉÂÏ!
>
> íÉÛÁ

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 6:26:29 AM3/21/10
to Huliganov and friends

On Feb 25, 5:15 pm, John Patrickovich <11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com>
wrote:


> Hi banjoplayer,
> Thanks for the personal email.  I thought i would answer publicly so
> that others could benefit.
>
> First, i would like to say there was a link calledwww.goldlist.eu
> that explained the goldlist in written form, and it was a very clear
> explaination.  That link is now dead.  If anyone knows where it is
> located, please post.

The person that hosted that website failed to answer my emails
regarding the control panel, and so I stopped paying, since I couldn't
use the service. It continued that way for like a year and then he
woke up and demanded money, I said that I wasn't paying as he hadn't
answered my questions and given me access to the control panel, and he
then squelched the content, calling me a liar and a thief. However, if
I gave such a bad service to a customer of mine I wouldn't expect to
be paid good money, so I do feel that my approach was internally
consistent, and if he wants to retrieve anything, then the courts are
the place, rather than the cyberbullying attacks I received from this
person in YT and other fora. In the end I had to block him.

The domain name goldlist.eu will be directed to a place in the
huliganov.tv blog where I will place the old article, improved
slightly. I see that a copy of it has been added here by Rambles2003.
That's very good, it means people have been able to read it. (As Ken
says there's no need to change the filename - I know Rambles wasn't
trying to claim he thought up the method, and the more people carrying
it the better) This whole debacle with my old provider also happened
in the middle of my recent very difficult month, so as yet the
resource in Huliganov.tv isn't posted up. I have most if not all of
the files I need. I can't promise it today but I'll try and do it
soon.

>
> I'll preface my answers by saying that i haven't tried the goldlist
> yet.  My answers are baseed on remembering what i read atwww.goldlist.eu
> a month or two ago.  The reason i haven't tried it is because i've
> been on pain medication for a knee surgery, and it just seems like
> common sense that i wouldn't get good results.  I'm off the pain meds
> now, and will be starting my book.  I'll post soon to give my
> impressions.
>
> Here are your questions:
>
>  1) In the creation of the initial Head-Lists, what is the recommended
>
> > frequency of adding a new batch of words? Should one start more than
> > one in a given day? How many per week? Will this frequency gradually
> > decrease as you progress, since the words will naturally become more
> > difficult perhaps?
>
> I beleive it was no more than 10 headlists per day. But remember, as
> you begin to distill, your workload will increase.
>

I personally never do more than 250 words a day. Theoretically it may
be possible, but that's already at a normatively sedate speed of
working over 3 hours of work, and you'd need to be including 100
minutes of breaks in between the groups of 25, at 10 minutes each, so
it would take a pretty good chunk of the day. As long as working that
much won't demotivate a person, I believe it is still possible to
learn effectively. The only upper limit is where it starts to feel
tedious and not motivating, which for me could happen if I did too
much. However, pleasant, calm surroundings, or the knowledge that you
are using otherwise lost time (eg on train journeys) or are using it
to vary entirely different work (20 minutes digging in the garden, 20
minutes goldlisting, and back again) you could achieve in theory well
over 10 headlists in a day.

250 words a day is the equivalent of achieving functional fluency in a
language in about 4 months, if you did it every day. I'm not advising
that rapid rate of advancement.

> 2) At the end of the 3rd Distillation (when you are left with perhaps
>
> > 5-6 words under your original Head-List), what do you do with those
> > words? Do you gather them together from other Head-Lists to form a new
> > List, which you would distill down to a final group? Would these be
> > the words that would go into your Gold Book, or do you keep on
> > Distilling ad infinitum till ideally all the entries are assimilated
> > into LTM?
>
> After the third distillation you should be left with 7-8 words.  So
> take the first 37 third distillation words in your book (#1) and
> distill to 25, thus you have your first "book #2 headlist" and then
> continue to distill as with book #1.

Exactly.

I have started calliing the first book done this way the bronze book,
the second book (with distillations 4-7) the silver book and the final
book (distillations 8-11) the gold book. To get a 10,000 word
vocabulary in a language (degree level knowledge, better knowledge
than less educated natives) which is also the point at which the
language snowballs to the extent that it is usually close to
activation all the time, and you don't feel as if you're forgetting it
(actually you don't forget if it's in the L/t memory, but words are
not necessarily on the tip of your tongue for the first three days of
an immersion situation). Therefore the most satisfying linguistic
experience is to be had by achieving 10,000 words, not just 2500 -
which gets you to intermediate, or 5000 words, which is what a student
beginning his or her degree in a language taken at high school might
be expected to have. To do this you need maybe three or four bronze
books, but only one silver book (as it starts as you rightly say with
25% of the headlist in the bronze book). You probably only need one
gold book for all the languages together, so the rule for the gold
book, in order to avoid wastage, is that you can include all languages
in a single book at gold book level. You can achieve this functional
fluency in 4 languages with a single gold book.

At the same time 2000 words will give you 80% of the communicative
power that 10,000 words will give, and so it's also a good use of time
to know 2000 words in five languages for the same work input as 10000
words in one language. 80% of five is four, so in fact that gives you
four times the communicative power, even though you won't really be
fluent in any of the languages. It is also a very valid strategy.


>
> 3) The Distillation Process: What is the best methodology here? After
>
> > the 2-week "incubation" period, I see that you must give yourself some
> > sort of self-test to see which words you know and which you don't,
> > right? So would you cover the English and test to see if you know the
> > "meaning" of the Russian word? Is that enough, or must one also be
> > able to cover the Russian word - and be able to give it's proper
> > spelling, stress, and so forth, from looking at the English. This, I
> > think, would be MUCH more difficult. Also it occurs to me that doing
> > it one way would sort of disqualify you from doing it the other way,
> > as the data would now be "tainted", so to speak, by having looked at
> > the List, exposing it again to the STM.
>
> Look at the Russian word and see if you can translate it into
> English.  Not sure about spelling.  It seems to me at this point to be
> sure to know how the word ends, and if there is an unusual plural or
> declination.  Also you should know what type of conjugation if a verb,
> and any irregularities.
>

Good strategy. You can cover the words, or simply ask yourself which
of them you've remembered best and which of them you can condense by
combining with other words on the same page or nearby pages. Certainly
unusual grammar attaching to any word, of the kinds you've mentioned,
is a prime reason for leaving it in longer.

> 4) The Numbering System: Am I correct in understanding the numbering
>
>
>
>
>
> > of the INITIAL Head-Lists should remain sequential, so that you can
> > know what is your running total of new words introduced to the system?
> > It also seems clear that the numbering of the Distillations in the
> > 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quadrants of your page can be individually numbered,
> > starting from 1 in each quadrant. So, here's where I get fuzzy: If I
> > am to form a Head-List from, let's say, 4 Primary Head-Lists, in order
> > to do another Distillation of those words, how would those words be
> > numbered? My guess is that since they are not really NEW words to the
> > system, that they should retain their original number that they were
> > given in their respective "Primary" Head-List... right? OR... is this
> > where you are supposed to start a new notebook consisting only of Once-
> > Distilled (3 times actually), numbering sequentially from 1 again? In
> > either case, I can see where totally NEW words, when added to the
> > system, should be numbered in the cumulative sequence of the Primary
> > Head-Lists, so that you can see the total of your ever increasing
> > vocabulary. Right?
>
> Your headlists are sequential.  Also the 2nd distillation is
> sequential, and the 3rd and 4th, etc.  So for example, somewhere in
> the middle of your book you would see the head list in 600's, the
> second dist in the 400's, 3rd dist in the 300's etc.
> Your first word of the top left page of book #2 would be word number 1
> of the 4th dist.  Right?
>

Exactly.

You can think of the structure as being a whole load of different
lists, the entry level head list and then up to 11 distillations if
you take it so far (some people don't even distill in the gold book so
the 8th distillation is the furthest they feel they need to take it.
So each of these 12 lists, the one coming from the one before, has its
own internal numbering which follows sequentially from start to
finish.

That way when you get to your word number 400, say in the 6th
distillation, you can look back and see which word this was in the
head list (it should be somewhere around 2800) you can do the maths
and see how far you've distilled the list - 1/7. That can be very
motivating for people of a mathematical frame of mind, who like to
work to numerical or at least quantifiable targets.

> 5) Finally for now: When you get up there, past 1000 or more words, is
>
> > it a problem, in adding new words, to avoid duplication? ie. adding a
> > word that you have already in-puted. Does this even matter in the long
> > run? Will your long term memory be able to let you know that "Hey,
> > Dude... You've already had that word back 1200 words ago! What, can't
> > you remember???!!!"
>
> Well it could probably happen, but it would mean that you don't
> remember the word.  I think a bigger problem will be say, already
> knowing an adjective, and passing over a new noun because you thought
> you remembered learning it because you know the root.  To minimize
> these problems, i plan to use a word frequency list to bring in new
> words.
>
> Hope this helps.  If i have answered a question wrong, i hope that
> another user will correct.

I wouldn't worry too much if a word comes in more than once.

It will come out again on distillation.

Maybe 3% of my lists are duplicates.

The more you try and do in the headlist before distilling down, the
more that will happen. If it bothers you, which in my view it doesn't
have to, then the answer is to do what one person commenting on YT
does, and that is to distil entirely a group of 1000 or 2000 words and
only then go on. There are timing problems with that approach - when
the lists get smaller, what else are you going to do while waiting for
the 2 weeks?

>
> Patrick
Great set of answers, I only supplemented a few more thoughts.

VDH.

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 6:38:13 AM3/21/10
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On Feb 27, 4:03 pm, "John (Patrick) Curran"


<11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes absolutely, i agree its a good idea to throw in short phrases and
> idioms.  Like join us for lunch, would be "compose to us company lunching".

> [?]


> I like to drive my kids crazy by speaking to them in English using Russian
> grammar.
>
> How far along are you?  Just starting out, or do you already have some
> vocabulary?
> Well, finding Huliganov has been the best thing to happen for me learning
> Russian.  I already learned grammar by self teaching and tutors.  Now i'm
> re-learning it because Huliganov's teaching is much clearer, and given with
> a much broader understanding.
>
> For example, i often wonder how to construct a sentence, but Huliganov's
> advice of just throwing everybody into the dative, even if the subject is
> eliminated altogether, and knowing this will sound  very natural to a
> Russian.....this is priceless teaching,  I was never told that by a tutor.
> Tutors tend to teach by instinct, but Huliganov is a true linguist, and
> understands intellectually what's going on at a deep level.
>

Many thanks for that observation. I occasionally get real Russians
finding the odd crack in something I've said in the videos, but the
problem they have is that they have little idea how to teach their own
language to foreigners. Alla Shubina is probably best among the native
ones on YT, but that is likely to be because she has Ukrainian and
therefore knows a bit about comparative Slavic philology, as well as
having an American partner, and having had to explain plenty of stuff
about Russian no doubt to him, which is a bit more experience. In the
main people don't teach their own language well unless they have
learned other languages themselves.

So they criticise mine, and where it is factual or constructuve I
welcome it, but if I get negative criticism, all I need to do is ask
them to do their course, and it quickly takes the wind out of their
sails.

Best,

VDH

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 6:44:43 AM3/21/10
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Probably not, in the long run. It is enough not to revisit the list
intentionally in the fermentation period, or at least within 2 weeks
of doing the next distillation of that portion of it, as it could lead
a person to think they had long term memorised something that was
still only in their short-term memory. But in the big scheme of things
it doesn't effect the working of the method if you chance on the same
words.

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 6:46:47 AM3/21/10
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On Mar 2, 3:16 pm, John Patrickovich <11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com>
wrote:

You can incorporate the study of grammar into the gold list by
headlisting the main paradigms in full and condensing them into
"tables" in the distillation. And then for the irregulars you keep the
irregular bits by the word itself.

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 6:51:20 AM3/21/10
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On Mar 3, 9:17 pm, Banjolover47 <michaelj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I am not sure where Huliganov clarifies this issue of "re-introduction
> during fermentation", as it is not mentioned in the summary .doc you
> posted, nor in any of the videos I have watched on UTube. I am just
> sort of hoping that many of those first 200 words or so have already
> been assimilated by my l/t memory from back when I studied Russian in
> college ca. 1968! Today I do my first distillation on Head List
> #1..... "Let the games begin!!!"

Let me know how you get on!

Always keen to hear of the results. As long as people have got their
heads around the counterintuitive nature of the method and used it as
described, the results often positively surprise the learner. The more
skeptical they were, the bigger the surprise.

You can see this on
http://huliganov.tv/2010/01/24/343/

He's one clever guy, and an experienced linguist who's tried a lot of
methods, so I will admit I was a tad anxious when he told me he was
going to try the method and make a public review of it, but his
endorsement is very confirmatory.

Viktor D. Huliganov

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Mar 21, 2010, 6:51:54 AM3/21/10
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That file wasn't ever on here, it was hosted on usenetposts.com, Ken,
and I'll be putting the content up on huliganov.tv when I get to it.
The provider and I had an argument for usenetposts.com and he has
squelched all the old content.

Rambles is very welcome to be associated with the upload here. If it
hadn't been for a bit of luck I could easily have lost that whole
article without his intervention. As it is I do have it, but only
because I saw that my old provider was about to pull a dirty trick on
me. I haven't been in business 20 years without getting a feeling for
something like that coming.

> > Peter- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

rambles2003

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May 3, 2010, 6:32:31 PM5/3/10
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Hello Victor Dmitrovich,

Thank you very much for the updated versions of your Gold List Method
at:

http://huliganov.tv/category/languages-and-linguistics/gold-list-methodology/

I have now deleted the copy of the old version that I uploaded to this
group as a stopgap.

Peter (aka rambles2003)


On Mar 21, 11:51 am, "Viktor D. Huliganov"

Only4Russian

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May 30, 2010, 12:42:47 PM5/30/10
to huli...@googlegroups.com
Here is a new question.
I LOVE the goldlist idea..but can't use it because I can't write anymore.(weak hands). I type now using only one hand and even that is getting very difficult.I suppose the onus is on me to figure out how to modify the Goldlist method for my use.But I would like to ask our dear Huliganov , since he invented this, and understands best the how and why of every part, if he has got any suggestions?
having taught 3 kids to read and write English,, I understand how IMPORTANT it is to actually write words with your hands. The process of doing that really cements the whole feel of the word, not only the letters, in your mind. Writing something in huge letters helps too. I used to have the kids write with glue and then stick glitter on it..or write in sand. The point is that connecting the cerebral to the sensual/physical really forces it farther into memory.It's a physiological reality.
I can't do that though. I want very much to use the goldlist method because I am surer it would work. But without writing? I don't know...
Any ideas?

2010/2/28 rambles2003 <pe...@maughan.idps.co.uk>

ludo

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May 30, 2010, 1:14:39 PM5/30/10
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It may sound silly alright
but here, I am currently learning to play an instrument
and loosely apply the rythm of the Goldlist for that (20min / 10 min /
20min) when I have to learn more intellectual stuff like scales and
other solfege
I must recall notes, melodies, songs and lyrics too
I've never been able to do that before - always thought it impossible.
It isn't anymore.

So my suggestion if you can't write is to sing (or just talk aloud
with application)
there still is a connection beeing made between body action and eyes
(if you read with attention)

else I'm an artist and often I go sketching outdoor
but I sometime happen to forget my sketchpad or a medium to draw or
paint
in that case I concentrate on observing the chosen subject and I
pretend to draw with the same intense concentration on my hand
movement
making myself aware of the connection between what I look at and the
lines drawn by my hand

My memory stocks images and details this way which I use afterward in
compositions.

I'm trained so it works for me, I wouldn't know for someone who isn't
but one can try
and if you learnt other languages and enjoy learning by being
creative, it might work and be a lot of fun.

Banjolover47

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May 31, 2010, 8:19:02 AM5/31/10
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Well, if you are still able to type on the computer, however
laboriously, I might suggest setting up all your headlists and
distillations as simple spreadsheet files using Exel, Open Office, or
whatever program you might have on your computer. Each Headlist would
be a separate file, and could be archived in folders such as "Bronze",
"Silver", "Gold", etc. You would need to be able to switch back and
forth between your Russian and your Native Language keyboard. Instead
of the "circular" layout pattern of the 2-page notebook, you would
simply have to enter your distillation results one below the other in
vertical format. The column for the WORD could be about 1/4th the
width of the DEFINITION column, giving you much more space for
multiple meanings, grammar notes, phrases, etc than with the
notebook. Once distilled 3 times, a Headlist file could even be
printed out, hole-punched, and kept in a 3-ring binder. Probably not
as powerful a method as writing for hand-mind (memory) connectivity,
but I think if you typed with a focused awareness, mentally and
visually writing or printing as you type,(as suggested in the previous
reply by LUDO), it may have the desired effect for you. Worth a try I
guess. Good luck.
Mike
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