goldlist

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John Patrickovich

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Apr 12, 2010, 1:19:57 AM4/12/10
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Hi,
I thought i would post my experiences with the goldlist so far. Well,
i'm sorry to say that i haven't been able to recall 33% of the words
after two weeks. I was able to recall a few words, but they seemed to
be words that i was familiar with in some way...so that i could make
an educated guess. I tried an experiment....used one syllable "roots"
that i was unfamiliar with. Actually had zero recall after only 3
days ( i assume that if i can't even get them to stick to short term,
they surely aren't in long term).
I'm glad it works for most people. But it simply doesn't work for
me.

Does this mean i'm scraping the idea. No. On the contrary....with a
few modifications i think the goldlist method will be very good for
me.
My modification is this: First get the words into short term memory.
If one writing and reading isn't enough, do what it takes so that one
recall most of them the following day. For me it's this:
Write the word and note the way it is put together, prefix, root, or
maybe it rhymes with another. Now do 4 sessions: The first two take
the Russian word and translate into English. The second two take the
English word and translate into Russian (if you know more than one
synonym, bring them all up).
Now proceed through the goldlist method as perscribed by Huliganov. I
am thinking, after the first distillation, i may review the distilled
words frontwards and backwards...actually at each distillation. I'll
post more when i get there.

Hope this might help anyone else who has a poor connection with the
subconscious, as i do. I'm going to teach this to my kids because
they are beginning German. I've got a hunch they will have a much
better connection to long term memory then i do. But if not, they can
use my modification.

Patrick

Sirob11

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Apr 14, 2010, 4:34:23 PM4/14/10
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Hello Patrick

I have red all your comments about the Gold list method of Huliganov.
Do not worry about your short term or long term memory. Generally
spoken, I am convinced that it is not as easy as to read once or twice
25 unknown words in a unknown language and then to remember 33% after
15 days. Especially if the unknown language is not familiar with your
native language, I mean like Catalan and Italian or Dutch and German
a.s.o. In my case I made the four distillations of over 2000 words and
I have to admit that in many pages I could hardly remember 2 or 3.
Nevertheless, I do not think that the idea of the Gold list is bad. I
agree with you that the action of getting the words in your short term
memory should be more intensive. Even if Huliganov does not agree with
me..... I think that the exercise of writing down over 5000 Russian
words in Cyrillic letters was good. It is a pity that Huliganov does
not go on with his Youtube courses. I liked them very much because he
is an excellent teacher. As I wanted to improve my Russian I went on
looking for other online courses (there are plenty on Internet) and I
found a very good learning system. It is called Lingq. You can check
it out at Youtube. The creator is Steve Kaufmann, who speaks many
languages. Here I send you his site were he explains his language
philosophy. In my opinion Huliganov and his Gold list system is a good
complement to Lingq. http://www.youtube.com/user/lingosteve
Ok, that's it. Keep on learning this difficult but beautiful language!

Best regards

Boris


On 12 Abr, 07:19, John Patrickovich <11rhymesandreas...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Banjolover47

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Apr 17, 2010, 4:19:25 PM4/17/10
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Hello Boris, Patrick and All....
Thought I would give a little update on my Goldlist experience so
far. I started working with the method in mid February. So far I have
initiated 23 Headlists of 25 words into the pipeline, at the rate of
about 2-3 per week. My content source has been a 2000 word frequency
list, except for the first 2 Headlists, which I derived from some
early lists from Transparent Language's online program ( aka Byki). At
this point I have carried only 6 Headlists through a Third
Distillation, resulting in anywhere from 2 to 6 words at the end....
quite acceptable, as I believe the expected result should be around 8
words. These "problem" words will next be carried over into a new
notebook (Volume 2 - Silver) where they will be run though another
series of distillations, starting out with groups of 25 words per
secondary Headlist. I have modified my approach to setting up the
initial Headlists in a way which gives me a little more time in
feeding the Short Term Memory: The frequency list which I am using
does not give much info at the outset - just the Russian word (no
stress indicators) with a very limited English translation of usually
just one word. Also, the part of speech is given. I may write out
several Headlists in advance, so to speak, but I do not give them an
actual Start-Date just yet. The frequency list I'm using also has a
nice feature where you can select from about 5 different online
dictionaries, and set up your list to go to that dictionary when you
click on the Russian word as it appears in the list. Here is the list
I use: http://www.learnrussianfree.com/vocabulary/word
I set my Russ>Eng search box at the top of the List to Rus>Eng
Wiktionary. The nice thing about this Dictionary is that it gives a
very complete grammatical analysis of the word, including audio
pronunciations, declensions, conjugations, phrases, alternate
meanings, etc. So.... when I am ready to "initiate" a headlist, I go
through the list a second time using this search feature, spending a
few more minutes getting my stresses correct, looking in greater
detail at the features and uses and meanings of the word. At this
point, I assign a Start-Date and determine the date of the First
Distillation... not less than 15 days hence.

Boris... on your advice, I have looked into the LingQ system, and have
started using it. What has been your approach to using it? I have
basically started with Beginner I Level lessons, and have started
working through them... creating LingQs and flashcards as I go. What,
of his many Youtube video lectures have you found helpful? It doesn't
seem like there is any sequential order to them that I can see. You
indicated that there will be no more Huliganov lessons past
RL102-21 ... Is that the case?? If so, I too would be quite
disappointed. One of the Online courses that I have been using, and
like quite well is from www.Learn2SpeakRussian.com. It appears,
however, that the first Volume of the course (available for about $13
USD!!) has not generated enough interest or income to encourage its
author to release Volume 2 at this time. I have attempted to encourage
the author, who I believe is an Australian medical doctor, to continue
the project, and to even charge 2 to 3 times more for the advanced
lessons. Thanks again for the heads-up on the LingQ site. I will
definitely add it to my arsenal, as I continue to pursue my Russian
studies. And Professor H., if you are listening.... please don't give
up on us!!!

Misha

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rambles2003

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Apr 19, 2010, 9:38:15 AM4/19/10
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Hello all,

I'm no expert in memory matters but I feel that I wish to add to this
discussion.

I think that it is not a good model of the brain to suppose that
information has to pass through the short-term memory to get into the
long-term. It is better to think of there being two separate input
channels, one leading to the short-term memory and the second leading
to the long-term. So the mind will take a piece of information and
put it into one or the other type of memory.

The short term memory is a scratch-pad which is destined to be cleared
quite quickly. So, for example, answers to the questions "Did I put
salt into the stew-pot", or "What time did I agree to meet my friend"
are held in short-term memory, because this is transient information,
while the long-term memory is used to give is the big-picture about
the world we inhabit.

I think that Huliganov is trying to tell us that if we get stressed up
and try to cram a list of vocabulary, so that we can recall it
tomorrow, we are most likely putting it into our short-term memory
which is destined to be wiped, and so it is a waste of time. Much
better to do something interesting with the vocabulary, such as write
it out in a nice book with notes on its etymology, and by that means
the long-term memory is more likely to pick it up and store it away.
The long-term memory "has a mind of its own" and is out of our
control.

I had a look at the reference to Steve Kaufmann (lingosteve) mentioned
above and he seems to be giving the same message. He talks of
enjoying the language and putting the language to use, maybe by
reading an interesting book in the language that is not too difficult
but just a little bit challenging. These are activities which will
bring words repeatedly to our attention in a way that is pleasant and
unpressurised, so that it is likely the long-term memory will pick
them up and lock them away.

Peter

Sirob11

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Apr 19, 2010, 2:20:41 PM4/19/10
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Hello Banjolover47

I do not know if Huliganov will go on with the course. It is just a
fact that he lost perhaps a little bit the power he had at the
beginning. It is always the same with all kind of language courses,
that at the beginning many people are participating and after a while
when it starts to become difficult most of them gives up. Perhaps
Huliganov lost the fun of creating the videos because of the low
number of viewers at the end of RL 102. I do really not know. But I
wished he went on.
Regarding your question about which video of Steve Kaufmann was
helpful I think it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU6sH4CagsY .
Nevertheless, if you keep with the Lingq community you will see that
mostly the comments of Steve about language learning are very
interesting. Generally speaking, language learning is very personal.
For me the lingq system is just perfect because I have self-
discipline. Perhaps for younger people it is not the best system. Even
if I had already studied more than 1 year Russian I started, as you
did, at Beginner 1 level. You will see that all your activities are
reflected in the users profile. So, when I will arrive with all
"parameters" (listening, speaking, reading, creating lingq's...) to
the top I will change to the next level. But, the most important is to
have fun reading and listening the many chapters you can find there.
On the other hand you have the forum. This is really a great place.
You can ask or comment whatever you want and you will receive very
fast answers. And finally, there is the possibility of speaking with
native speakers through Skype. For instance, I am speaking every week
15 minutes with my Russian tutor. This helps me very much improving my
Russian.
If you look for Sirob11 you will find me. Just add me to your friends!

Best regards
> like quite well is fromwww.Learn2SpeakRussian.com. It appears,
> however, that the first Volume of the course (available for about $13
> USD!!) has not generated enough interest or income to encourage its
> author to release Volume 2 at this time. I have attempted to encourage
> the author, who I believe is an Australian medical doctor, to continue
> the project, and to even charge 2 to 3 times more for the advanced
> lessons. Thanks again for the heads-up on the LingQ site. I will
> definitely add it to my arsenal, as I continue to pursue my Russian
> studies. And Professor H., if you are listening.... please don't give
> up on us!!!
>
> Misha
>
> --
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>
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John (Patrick) Curran

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Apr 20, 2010, 11:01:38 AM4/20/10
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Hi Peter, Boris, Banjolover47, et. al.,
Thank you Boris for your encouragement!  I am sidetracked now from Russian for a while, but i did check out the link to Kaufman's site, and i will definitely join in the near future.  I will look you up, and banjolover47 also. 
Peter, i guess i've been thinking of memory in terms of how one learns a musical instrument.  The coordination of hand movements must be "burned" into the mind, through repetition...making the unfamiliar, familiar.  And I think that the test that i crammed for in college was not only remembered in short term memory, but if i went back  and re-studied the material, it would be "re-learned" much more quickly than the first time....because its still there.  It seems to me that anythng that is consiously committed to memory, is in fact, in long term, although it needs to be coaxed out.   It seems that the process of HOW one "commits' something to memory is what Huliganov is teaching.   
But, i'm open to the idea that my thinking on this is wrong.  And i'm going to continue to try to use Huliganov's methods to "absorb" vocabulary more easily. 
Happy learning!
Patrick
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