>There is an iPhone App "Clinometer" that provides very detailed data
>about tilt angles in all dimensions.
>If you could securely attach your iPhone to your camera or tripod
>head, and then calibrate it, you would get the type of information you
>seek.
>However Clinometer doesn't output any data so you would need to
>manually record it for each photo.
Well, there is a sample/demo application (APIdemo?) in the Android SDK,
which displays three animated line graphs, one for each axis resp.
acceleration sensor, same for compass. The SDK is free, so it's just a
matter of adding a few lines to that sample, in order to automatically
record the datat locally or to send it via net internet to some
listening service. If storing the data locally is sufficient, using an
old, abandoned phone for that purpose might come to mind.
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On 5 Dez., 17:17, Jeffrey Martin <360cit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like this idea so much, that I continued doing a bit of research on
> whether it's possible.
>
> I think it might be.
> could the same be done with this position-ometer?http://www.x-io.co.uk/node/9
> it would be so cool!
A few years ago we had phones. Now we have smartphones. Let's hope we
also get 'smartcameras'. When I look at the computing capacity of my
camera (as revealed by the quite sophisticated image processing) and
contrast that to the meagre essentials my firmware allows me to
manipulate, I feel cheated somehow... I hope open firmware takes off.
GPS has already made it's way into compact cameras, quite probably
because geotagging can instantly be recognized by a significant part
of the general public as a useful feature. Inclinometer data might be
sold to the public as an aid to automatically level the horizon, and
since that is one of the commonest photographic mistakes it might be
the route for these devices into cameras.
Mind you, probably into compact cameras - and if you have a DSLR
you'll be asked to fork out 500$ for some bulky stick-on device which
only works with the top of the range and drains your battery in no
time. The device you dream of sticking to your camera seems like
overkill to me. Nice-to-have, but really one of the small sensors like
those inside a smartphone would do the trick well enough - and they
are much cheaper, as well :)
Kay
For those who have a Canon compact or bridge, this
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK is a proof that the hardware is able
to do much more than we usually think. I use it in my S5 and it works.
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also get 'smartcameras'.
When I look at the computing capacity of my
camera (as revealed by the quite sophisticated image processing) and
contrast that to the meagre essentials my firmware allows me to
manipulate, I feel cheated somehow...
I hope open firmware takes off.
GPS has already made it's way into compact cameras, quite probably
because geotagging can instantly be recognized by a significant part
of the general public as a useful feature.
Inclinometer data might be
sold to the public as an aid to automatically level the horizon, and
since that is one of the commonest photographic mistakes it might be
the route for these devices into cameras.Mind you, probably into compact cameras - and if you have a DSLR
you'll be asked to fork out 500$ for some bulky stick-on device which
only works with the top of the range and drains your battery in no
time. The device you dream of sticking to your camera seems like
overkill to me. Nice-to-have, but really one of the small sensors like
those inside a smartphone would do the trick well enough - and they
are much cheaper, as well :)
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2011/12/6, Jeffrey Martin <360c...@gmail.com>:
--
One other option that doesn't directly write data in the images EXIF
metadata would be a timestamp for the external logger via the camera's
flash sync contact. A rough time synchronisation of the externally
logged data with the camera could be done with a simple display on your
device showing the current 'hhmmss' value that just needs be
photographed once in a while. Correct the EXIF timestamp with a simple
exiftool argument later.
> and the answer is definitely NO - GPS is very course, and in practical
> purposes, you can have the sync off by a few seconds and the photos will
> still have correct location data. not the case with the position of the
> camera in space. and there is no way you can synchronize a non-tethered
> device within 1/100 of a second or whatever it takes to correctly
> synchronize such data.
>
> so a device like this will have to be tethered.
>
> in terms of the compass.... i've noticed using my analog compass that i
> can't hold it too close to my camera or it is wrong. so i wonder how an
> electronic compass will be able to deal with that.
I think I sometimes see compass errors when I get too close to the
camera / pano head with my Garmin Oregon. But with a sensor you could
use some kind of "antenna" that provides the necessary distance.
> finally, in terms of custom exif data.... if we are to build this for
> nikon, we'll need to hack the position data inside the exif data. i
> don't think there will be any other way. we'll see ;)
The exiftool website has some more information, e.g. here
<http://owl.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/GPS.html>
> now, what nikon slr should i buy? i've been a canon guy up till now :(
I think a lot of people are waiting for the D-700 successor, usually
referred to as D-800. Still the D-700 seems to be a trustworthy full
frame dslr while the D-300s is the current DX (= 1.5 crop factor)
equivalent. I use a D-300.
You'll love the bracketing feature :-)
Cheers,
Carl
There is usually a huge difference between the height values coming from
the GPS data and the barometric output (my Garmin has both). So maybe a
barometric sensor is also available...
Carl
in terms of the compass.... i've noticed using my analog compass that i can't hold it too close to my camera or it is wrong. so i wonder how an electronic compass will be able to deal with that.
I always thought that Exif tags/fields started with pre-defined
identifiers. You could use one of the unused values, but you'd risk
that other applications do the same. Or am I missing something?
On 6 Dez., 16:37, Geoff G8DHE <geoff.mat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> You need to calibrate any form of compass ! The Solmeta device requires
> that you put it in calibrate mode, and then twist the unit along all 3-axis
> twice so that it can record the maximum external field strengths, by
> recording the changes rather than measuring the static fields created by
> the camera/head/device. The accuracy and precision even after calibration
> is not that high 5° is good. Unless you go for some very expensive sensors.
My (Garmin etrex hcx) GPS has a compass, but it's not too precise,
needs calibration, and only produces correct data if the device is
held level (!) and there are no magnetic fields around. One would wish
for something better, but I'm not sure they exist. On the other hand,
the compass is the thing needed least for a panorama - the
inclinometer would be much more useful and it should work no matter
what.
Kay
On 6 Dez., 10:38, Jeffrey Martin <360cit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 6, 2011 8:52:59 AM UTC+1, kfj wrote:
> > GPS has already made it's way into compact cameras, quite probably
> > because geotagging can instantly be recognized by a significant part
> > of the general public as a useful feature.
>
> Well, there is still the problem of battery life. I think this is one of
> the biggest factors about why there isn't GPS in more cameras. But still
> that's a pretty lame excuse.
Handheld GPS devices show that receiving GPS data doesn't need to
consume much power. My garmin can operate 20 hours on two AA NiMH
cells, and that's with it recording my track and displaying
everything.
BTW - GPS comes with extremely precise knowledge of the time - after
all the GPS satellites carry atomic clocks and the GPS devices sync
with them - time is at the basis of finding your position with a GPS.
If the GPS is inside the camera (and the camera uses the GPS's time -
I wouldn't put it beyond the camera makers to fail to do so) all
imprecise timing is a thing of the past. On top of that, radio time
signals are sent out to synchronize radio controlled watches, and
hardware to receive the signals is cheap. Yet again it's not that the
technology isn't there, it's just that it isn't used.
Kay
$GPRMC,133656.000,A,5049.6748,N,00022.9357,W,1.73,145.09,030811,,,E*76
$PTNTHPR,218.9,N,-7.9,N,-3.2,N,A*19
$GPGGA,133700.000,5049.6744,N,00022.9365,W,1,03,10.6,24.9,M,47.1,M,,0000*41
$GPRMC,133659.000,A,5049.6734,N,00022.9377,W,1.77,198.54,030811,,,A*78
$PTNTHPR,246.4,N,-26.0,N,4.6,N,A*0B
$GPGGA,133747.109,5049.7042,N,00022.9503,W,1,03,10.0,30.4,M,47.1,M,,0000*42
So while a compact might have the battery life to support built-in GPS,
I'd really rather have my DSLR use its battery taking quality pictures.
Oskar Sander wrote:
> Right, I was going to say the same. Most iphone and andorid phone has
> this capability, soon every little gadget will too. The camera producers
> need to se the benefit though. Which I think instant panorama,
I've seen that on compact cameras, and iPhone. The pictures look great
on the little displays. They don't look very good at full size.
> 3D
> application etc would be.
>
> With GPS there are add ons to e.g. Lightroom that correlates at GPS
> track with photo timestamp and add position in metadata. This
> electronic tripod/attitude could work the same.
>
> Cheers
> /O
>
> 2011/12/6 Jeffrey Martin <360c...@gmail.com <mailto:360c...@gmail.com>>
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wandering the landscape of god
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> One difference between compact P&S cams and DSLR when it comes to
> battery life: compact cams use a lot less juice. They're only moving a
> tiny little lens around, powering a tiny little chip and not having to
> flip a frame-sized mirror out of the way to take a picture.
This isn't necessarily true:
- you can easily work a DSLR without the monitor on most of the time.
Try that with a P&S
- DSLRs do not have to focus via the main sensor, so they don't need
processing power for that (and more power for the 'pumping' until the
correct focus is found')
- you zoom DSLRs manually, while P&Ss use a motor for the purpose
- P&Ss usually keep the lens inside the body and have to move it out
and back in on every power on/off
I used a P&S and routinely took spare batteries because they ran out
quite quickly. When I got a DSLR, I bought some spare batteries right
away, just to find out that I seldom need them (admittedly they're a
bit fatter).
> So while a compact might have the battery life to support built-in GPS,
> I'd really rather have my DSLR use its battery taking quality pictures.
you make it sound as if just having a GPS unit uses power. The good
thing about GPS units in this respect is that you can actually turn
them off ;-)
Kay
On 07.12.2011, at 08:04, Gnome Nomad wrote:
> One difference between compact P&S cams and DSLR when it comes to battery life: compact cams use a lot less juice. They're only moving a tiny little lens around, powering a tiny little chip and not having to flip a frame-sized mirror out of the way to take a picture.
I disagree greatly. I've used my DSLR (an old Nikon D80) for shooting a wedding of friends. I've managed to get 1700 (!) pictures in one day (yes, also a lot of panoramas) with still some juice left in my battery. I think I'd never ever manage to do this with my compact cam. It's probably because the battery of my DSLR has approximately four times the physical size of the compact cams battery, and more than double the mAh in it :)
Otherwise the discussion in this thread is really interesting. I've been geotagging my photos since years, be it with a GPS logger or after importing them to my photo library with an external tool. It's not really the ultimate accuracy I want to achieve, it's more like 'where in the world have I been'.
Habi
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Of course bluetooth takes power too - but if you only used it to send
data to the phone - it would be pretty silent most of the time.
me
%Image::ExifTool::UserDefined = (See here for where to place the file http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/config.html
'Image::ExifTool::GPS::Main' => {
0xd000 => {
Name => 'GPSTilt',
Writable => 'rational64s',
WriteGroup => 'GPS',
},
# add more user-defined EXIF tags here...
0xd001 => {
Name => 'GPSRoll',
Writable => 'rational64s',
WriteGroup => 'GPS',
},
},
);
1; # end
I get about 800 frames from a pair of batteries in my Maxxum 7D. They're
larger than many compact cams are now. With our old P&S shoot compact
camera, I've shot many more frames than that over the space of a week
before having to recharge batteries.
> Otherwise the discussion in this thread is really interesting. I've
> been geotagging my photos since years, be it with a GPS logger or
> after importing them to my photo library with an external tool. It's
> not really the ultimate accuracy I want to achieve, it's more like
> 'where in the world have I been'.
That's something that would make GPS useful: Where was this picture
taken? (Well, also, to answer the question - now how do I get back to
where I was before I wandered off shooting pictures.)
I have 2 compacts and 1 bridge, none of which ever managed to give me
more than 750 pictures per charge (and I never use the flash, seldom
review my photos in the camera and always transfer my photos by
inserting my card in my PC). I guess the only conclusion is that there
is no way to know in advance the number of pictures per charge based
on the camera type. Which makes sense, photos per charge would depend
of course on battery capacity (BTW when you wrote "large", you meant
in size or in capacity?) but also on the intelligence of the engineers
in avoiding unnecessary power drain, and on the way you use your
camera (do you take a long time to frame your pictures, do you spend a
long time reviewing the pictures after, do you use the flash) which in
turn is influenced by the camera type. Add to this the fact that old
P&S had an optical viewer (which diminished power consumption) while
in almost all modern P&S you have no choice but to use the LCD.
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To reduce the chance of the wrong data sensor reading instance being
matched to the wrong photo I decided not to go down the path of
recording data all the time and trying to match it to photos after
using the time stamp. Instead I've built a circuit that uses my canon
dslr flash hot shoe to trigger the media button on my android
headphone lead whenever a photo is taken, which in turn triggers an
android app to record the sensor readings at that moment. The app I'm
using is a special version of AndroSensor that the author of kindly
customised for this purpose.
It's early stages, i.e. it's still a pile of wires and components on
my desk, but it works so far. Later this week I'm going to mount it
all on the camera and give it a proper test. Unfortunately the phone
doesn't sense Barometric Pressure (yet) but it's a good start. It does
however record interesting things such as noise levels. Of course
battery life could be a problem if you're out shooting all day,
another aspect I need to test and report on.
I'm glad I came across this thread as the next step is to find a way
to attach all this extra data to photos. XMP, kml, exif.... I still
need to do my research to be honest.
Sometime this week I'll post photos and circuit diagrams (it's pretty
basic electronics) in case anyone wants to do something similar.
Cheers
Dave
Very neat, and I think it's the way forward. A lot of us have
smartphones so all we need is a decent app and a cable/cable schematics.
Though I'd rather have the phone connected to the shutter release port.
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How about this: http://eu.blueslr.com/ also?
It's a bit expensive and the app lacks features, but the dongle lets you
do whatever.
Well that was the point, to use the phone as a trigger :)
Implement bracketing and that's about it, a perfect app for panography.
For interfacing, go for Canon and Nikon compatibility, covers the
majority of users.
You just need to post a wiring diagram for different cables.
Hmm, how about a hacked sport armband to mount the phone on the camera?
Like this:
http://media04-ak.vivastreet.com/classifieds/ec/0/38348746/large/1.jpg?dt=596cb99e9f652f44ceb6c2765c1792fc
These are the sources I used to make the circuit. I'm still waiting
for a solid state relay in the post so haven't tested that part yet.
Initial idea and circuit info:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/diyphotographynet/discuss/72157623832533903/
http://i40.tinypic.com/5181w6.jpg
However the above circuit didn't work first time for me so I kept
exploring...
Good explanation of the circuit we need (monostable 55 timer), also
explains how to use different resistor/capacitor combinations to
change the length of the output signal:
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/555timer.htm#monostable
Breakdown of the HTD headphone remote:
http://www.george-smart.co.uk/wiki/HTC_Headphones
I basically ended up cutting off the existing remote, removing the
left and right audio channel wires and putting a 33k resistor across
the remaining two wires to pretend the mic is still in place. When you
short the circuit using a switch, relay etc the sudden decrease in
resistance is what tells android the media button has been depressed.
Later this week I should get a chance to post pictures and a full
schematic for the circuit. In the meantime hope this helps.
I haven't looked into using the shutter connection as this isn't what
I'm after, however I'm sure it's possible. If your using the hotshoe
then it should be the all makes of camera, basically use the center
large round pin and the outer metal frame that the flash unit slides
into as your trigger connections.
As the circuit is designed at the moment it requires 4.5v+ or 3 aaa/aa
batteries to power it, so I've bought a second hand broken flash unit
that takes 4aaa batteries which should also be able to house the phone
securely once I've modified it.
If anyone gives this a go let me know how you get on.
Dave
On Dec 12, 12:11 pm, Robert Lesac <rob...@robertlesac.com> wrote:
> On 12.12.2011. 11:41, Dave wrote:
>
> > As I understand it the shutter release port can only be used to
> > trigger the shutter using an external device and not the other way
> > round. I assumed the hot shoe was the only connection I could use to
> > detect when the shutter button was depressed on the camera.
>
> Well that was the point, to use the phone as a trigger :)
> Implement bracketing and that's about it, a perfect app for panography.
> For interfacing, go for Canon and Nikon compatibility, covers the
> majority of users.
> You just need to post a wiring diagram for different cables.
>
> Hmm, how about a hacked sport armband to mount the phone on the camera?
> Like this:http://media04-ak.vivastreet.com/classifieds/ec/0/38348746/large/1.jp...
So it would seem that there is not sufficient demand for such a
feature.
On Dec 6, 8:24 pm, Oskar Sander <oskar.san...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Right, I was going to say the same. Most iphone and andorid phone has this
> capability, soon every little gadget will too. The camera producers need to
> se the benefit though. Which I think instant panorama, 3D application etc
> would be.
>
> With GPS there are add ons to e.g. Lightroom that correlates at GPS track
> with photo timestamp and add position in metadata. This electronic
> tripod/attitude could work the same.
>
> Cheers
> /O
>
> 2011/12/6 Jeffrey Martin <360cit...@gmail.com>
The Solmeta refers to it as Tilt, aircraft refer to it as Pitch - take your pick ;-) No real preference to be honest!
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I am really wondering if this is worth the effort (regardless whether it
is +- 5% or +- 1%): Won't it be easier to implement that sort of
matching in software based on the image data?
Cheers,
Gerhard
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I use a Minolta Maxxum 7D, using 2 of the standard A400 (I think that's
their part number) batteries at a time. Each looks like a pair of beefed
up AA batteries together in a solid black plastic shape. I don't know
what their capacity is.
I have the camera set to show the LCD, but the LCD politely turns off
when you look through the viewfinder. (The 7D doesn't let you use the
LCD as a viewfinder; it's strictly for information, camera menus, and
view images after shooting.) I almost never shoot with flash; I'm quite
good at standing very still while shooting, although age has reduced
that ability a bit. I use autofocus for most shots, even ones where I
then switch it to manual and adjust things. I never use autoocus with my
500mm telephoto - although that lens is physically about have the length
of straight 500mm lenses (it's a mirror lens), it's still a lot of glass
to move around when focusing. Autofocus really drains the battery!
I always have the 7D's in-body anti-shake turned on. That also
contributes to battery drain. Cameras that lack in-body antishake won't
have that draining their batteries. Although I suppose in-lens antishake
would drain batteries, too - maybe even more, since I assume an
APS-sized CCD is lighter than lens elements (assuming that's how
antishake is done in-lens - I have no idea!), it would take less power
to move the CCD around than lens elements.
I've noticed that the speed of the compact flash cards makes a
difference. The faster the media, the lower the battery drain. I have
older, slower CF cards that can drain batteries noticeably quicker than
newer, faster cards. Would cameras using other memory card forms such as
SD/XD or MemoryStick, have the same problem? I have no idea.
Anyway, that's some info. Takes me a long time to reply sometimes. ;-)
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A motor+sensor+feedback combination IS a servo!
BugBear
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