Origin of "Eat more possum"
R. Love
the '60's. A lot of cars would have this saying on a bumper sticker or
tag.
Is this literal, I know people do/have eaten possum. Especially in the
depression. Or is it some sort of southern pride slogan? Is it
political? Is it anything racial? I am really curious and I've found
lots of reference to the saying online but no explainations.
Ron Hammon
Not many now remember this, but as late as the mid-sixties, hamburgers
and steaks were not NEARLY as prevalant in the average diet. Sometime
in the sixties, the Beef Association hired an advertising company that
launched an "Eat More Beef!" campaign. About this time, panicked
reports of the horrors of undercooked pork abounded. (More than a
little suspicious, eh?) Pork is only now recovering and is now touted as
the "OTHER" white meat... by a pork group.
One of the most popular T.V. shows of that time was the "Beverly
Hillbillys". I think that the joke evolved out of the "Eat More Beef"
campaign with the "Beverly Hillbillys" twist.
--
Ron Hammon. Remove "y" from "nyet", if present, from my address to
reply.
Eric Kelso
R. Love wrote in message <3a51207b...@news.hiwaay.net>...
decades though, so they may have gone out of business.
Robert J. Wilson
> There was a brand of sardines called Possum. I haven't seen a can of it in
> decades though, so they may have gone out of business.
I still see them. I prefer the ones with green chili peppers.
Bob Wilson
Ron Hammon
They are still around and still have a loyal following. They are about
the most expensive these days, so I opt for the cheaper brands. As I
moved on to sardines in water or tomato sauce, I left the oil-soaked
Possum brand behind.
xyz
There is a character in Chilton County whose name I can't recall right
this moment who was the founder of the "Possum Growers & Breeders
Association." If you had reason to believe that you *might* have
possums on some property you owned, you could send him $5 for a
lifetime membership and receive a certificate and a car tag with the
"Eat More Possum" logo on it.
xyz
Mr. Basil Clark is his name (getting old - these things sometimes take
a while to come to me.)
Greg Bacon
R. Love <fl...@hiwaay.net> wrote:
: Is this literal, I know people do/have eaten possum. Especially in the
: depression. Or is it some sort of southern pride slogan? Is it
: political? Is it anything racial? I am really curious and I've found
: lots of reference to the saying online but no explainations.
I always thought it related to cunning linguistics.
Greg
--
As in certain cults it is possible to kill a process if you know its true
name.
-- ken and dmr
Bonnie Howard
I own a cookbook entitled White Trash Cooking. by Ernest Matthew Mickler
Its not a joke cookbook although some of the text is quite funny.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0898151899/qid=978637756/sr=1-1/102-4
741654-9498560
(Best cornbread and fried green tomato recipes!!) and one or maybe two of
the recipes include possum as an ingredient. i.e. possum stew. I've wondered
if you have to use fresh possum or if a still smoking roadkill counts but I
havent had the nerve or desire to try it. Seems dangerous... what if you go
to throw him into the boiling water pot and he was just "playing possum"???
As a side note... there is also a recipe for "fried cooter" and mock cooter
stew. Turns out a "cooter" is a turtle......
hmmmmm.....
Bonnie
Greg Bacon
Bonnie Howard <bonnie...@knology.net> wrote:
: I own a cookbook entitled White Trash Cooking [...] (Best cornbread
: and fried green tomato recipes!!) and one or maybe two of the recipes
: include possum as an ingredient. i.e. possum stew. [...]
If you ever happen to see what a possum does to a dead cow, you
won't consider even sniffing a possum.
: As a side note... there is also a recipe for "fried cooter" and mock
: cooter stew. Turns out a "cooter" is a turtle......
: hmmmmm.....
Well, I've heard that women have an incredible tolerance for pain,
but frying and stewing? I'm sure there's a website devoted to that
particular brand of kink though. :-)
Greg
--
Cartman: Moooooom! Kitty's being a dildo!
Mom: Well, I know a certain kitty-kitty who's sleeping with Mommy tonight!
Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
Jan 2001:
>I always thought it related to cunning linguistics.
I find your arguments fellatious.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net
Am I getting smart with you? ....How would you know?
Ron Hammon
snip
> Well, I've heard that women have an incredible tolerance for pain,
snip
An aside.
I keep hearing this "legend". I've heard the premise on movies and T.V.
shows. To defend my gender, let me explain a few details. (If I've
said this here before, please ignore the rant.) There was a military
study (Air Force?) to determine the relative pain threshold for men
versus women. The test consisted of two chairs wired to shock the
subjects in the chairs by the intensity setting on a dial set by a
subject. The instructions to the subjects were to dial up the maximum
shock that they could stand.
One woman alone set the dial at about the same place as when a two woman
teem took the shock. Women consistently set the dial appreciably higher
than when a lone male set it (I think it was about 30% higher). Hence,
the simple version that women have a higher pain threshold.
The "rest of the story", however, is that when two male subjects were
taking the same shock, they would drive the dial well ABOVE the women's
setting (by about 50%, I think). It's a macho thing. Neither would
give up first. The point is that, without specifying particular
circumstances, MEN demonstrated a much higher pain threshold than
women. We just need a bit more justification to endure it.
Maybe now SOMEONE, besides me, will know this. I read of this study in
about the mid seventies. I have no further references at this time.
Bob230
>The kindly Rev. overheard gba...@HiWAAY.net (Greg Bacon) saying on 03
>Jan 2001:
>
>>I always thought it related to cunning linguistics.
>
>I find your arguments fellatious.
You too must belong to sinful sects.
Bob
Ron Hammon
>
> On Thu, 04 Jan 2001 19:03:16 -0600, Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet>
> wrote:
>
> >Greg Bacon wrote:
> >
> >snip
> >
> >> Well, I've heard that women have an incredible tolerance for pain,
> >
> >snip
> >
> >An aside.
> >
> >
> >Maybe now SOMEONE, besides me, will know this. I read of this study in
> >about the mid seventies. I have no further references at this time.
>
> as the highest pain endured by a human being. Women used to have to
> endure that pain. Indeed, the periods of some women are extremely
> painful whereas men are not subjected to it. One might conclude that
> our Maker figured that man having lost one rib couldn't take that much
> pain and mandated that only women would have to. And, I give thanks
> for that!
IF "natural" childbirth is the highest pain endured by a human being, by
design; that still would not explain a genetic advantage for women
having a higher threshold... unless loss of conciousness is the
problem. The known connection between sex and reproduction would be
necessary for avoidance of subsequent sex to even be a problem. (I am
not at all convinced about this HORRENDOUS pain of childbirth either.
"As close to dying as you can get"! This seems too much like a plot to
garner favor for the deed.)
From: http://www.aboutibs.org/article%20locke.html
"One study found that women's pain threshold for rectal stimulation was
lower than men's were."
From: "Gender differences in pain. Role of Anxiety"; GB Rollman, PHD;
References Dept of Psychology, University of Western Ontario
http://www.pain.com/library/detail.cfm?Articles_id=1781
"[Rollman] noted that female subjects called a halt to the electrical
shock at a much earlier self-described pain rating. They tolerated much
higher levels of cold and pressure... women had significantly lower pain
tolerance thresholds for electrocutaneous stimulation but showed no
differences in their pain thresholds to heat (a less threatening
stimulus)."
In a primative perspective, I can envision women enduring problems
around the cave, while "real" pain, savage injury from attacks or falls,
must be endured by the fighting/hunting men.
> BTW, pain is measured in a unit called a dol.
>
> http://www.ampainsoc.org/bulletin/jan99/history.htm
>
> One dol is barely painful; 9 dols is intolerable. A woman giving
> birth naturally experiences from 8 to 8.5 dols during the delivery
> process. Childbirth pain is exceeded only by having a limb
> amputated without drugs. Since women of yesteryear had little choice,
> one could conclude that they can endure more pain for otherwise, there
> wouldn't be so many humans running around this earth.
Where did your 8.5 dols come from? You describe the mothers of
yesteryear as if they made a choice during labor to endure the pain.
There is no more a biological advantage of a higher pain threshold to
endure childbirth as to endure an amputation without drugs, except,
possibly to prevent loss of conciousness. YOU might conclude that women
can endure more pain for otherwise humanity might be extinct. I can't
conclude that at all.
>
> I can't recall the name but a chemical is released during childbirth
> which aids in pain reduction sensation for both the mother and child.
> I don't believe this chemical has been found in the male species of
> humans. It is believe that the baby needs the effects of this
> chemical more so than the mother because it can't produce enough of
> it. Perhaps someone knows the name of the chemical.
Maybe this is it. "Two lines of evidence from human and animal studies
suggest that drugs activating kappa opioid receptors (KOR) may be
uniquely analgesic in women... the well-documented increase in pain
threshold during late pregnancy has been shown to involve KOR and their
endogenous opioid ligand, dynorphin." From
http://www4.od.nih.gov/orwh/res3b.html
This addresses a pain reduction mechanism which is unique to women.
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: [...] The known connection between sex and reproduction would be
: necessary for avoidance of subsequent sex to even be a problem.
During trauma, e.g., a painful event like childbirth, neurotransmitters
that inhibit memory are dumped on the brain. That lends a little
truth to the old saying that "it's the kind of pain you forget".
: (I am
: not at all convinced about this HORRENDOUS pain of childbirth either.
: "As close to dying as you can get"! This seems too much like a plot to
: garner favor for the deed.)
I have seen what amounts to blatant inflation of the mystique of
motherhood, but, having been in the delivery room with my wife (and
they said she had a pretty easy labor), I wouldn't say that accounts of
the painfulness of childbirth number among those.
Greg
--
As a programmer, you will always be working for an employer. Unless you are
very rich and very famous, you will not enjoy the luxury of having a computer
in your own home . . .
-- _Techniques of Program Structure and Design_
Paxton Sanders
<t5bohi5...@corp.supernews.com>:
>In article <3A5589...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
>: [...] The known connection between sex and reproduction would be
>: necessary for avoidance of subsequent sex to even be a problem.
>
>During trauma, e.g., a painful event like childbirth, neurotransmitters
>that inhibit memory are dumped on the brain. That lends a little
>truth to the old saying that "it's the kind of pain you forget".
>
When I was a kid, I had a bicycle accident. I was sitting still on my bike
and a big kid rode his bike up and ran me over. (Actually, he just ran
into me, but it tipped me over.) My head hit the asphalt.
Well, a few minutes later, I started rambling incoherently. Then I guess
it got painful and I started crying and screaming. My mother decided to
take me to the emergency room. During the car ride, I lost consciousness.
I went into a comatose state. Then, my heart stopped, they found I had a
blood clot on my brain, I was rushed into surgery, and they removed it.
I don't remember anything from that whole experience. What I know (what I
wrote above) was told to me later. I remember an event that occurred 4
hours before my accident and I remember waking up two weeks later with a
swollen noggin and a big scar.
That was 20 years ago (I was 8). It was a lot of pain for me, but I feel
worse about all the pain my parents went through.
-Paxton
--
Paxton C. Sanders
pcsa...@yahoo.com
Ron Hammon
>
> In article <3A5589...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
> : [...] The known connection between sex and reproduction would be
> : necessary for avoidance of subsequent sex to even be a problem.
>
> During trauma, e.g., a painful event like childbirth, neurotransmitters
> that inhibit memory are dumped on the brain. That lends a little
> truth to the old saying that "it's the kind of pain you forget".
>
My point was that primatives probably did not understand the connection
between sex and reproduction. Even if horrendous pain of childbirth was
realized and remembered, there would be no negative impact on
reproduction. Hence, no genetic advantage to a lowered pain threshold
unless the advantage is restricted to labor itself. The only two
advantages, in the wild, that I can think of is remaining conscious or
adoiding screaming.
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: Greg Bacon wrote:
:
: > During trauma, e.g., a painful event like childbirth, neurotransmitters
: > that inhibit memory are dumped on the brain. That lends a little
: > truth to the old saying that "it's the kind of pain you forget".
:
: My point was that primatives probably did not understand the connection
: between sex and reproduction. Even if horrendous pain of childbirth was
: realized and remembered, there would be no negative impact on
: reproduction.
Well, we moderns understand the connection, and that still doesn't
stop some women from pumping out whole broods. (I guess epidurals
and welfare help too. Jerry Springer has warped me. :-)
: Hence, no genetic advantage to a lowered pain threshold
: unless the advantage is restricted to labor itself. The only two
: advantages, in the wild, that I can think of is remaining conscious or
: adoiding screaming.
Well, a screaming woman would broadcast a message like "hey, here is
a tired, defenseless easy meal with a succulent, tender appetizer and
a nutritious afterbirth". I'd say not screaming is a fairly nice
advantage.
Greg
--
The manufacturers of KY Jelly have announced that their product is now fully
Year 2000 compliant. In the light of this they have now renamed it as 'Y2KY
Jelly'. Said a spokesman: "The main benefit of this revision to our product,
is that you can now insert four digits into your date instead of two".
Greg Bacon
Paxton Sanders <pcsa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
: [...]
:
: I don't remember anything from that whole experience. What I know (what I
: wrote above) was told to me later. I remember an event that occurred 4
: hours before my accident and I remember waking up two weeks later with a
: swollen noggin and a big scar.
While playing intramural football, a couple of fairly big guys on our
team were playing defensive line. Dan fell down, and Dave fell on Dan's
leg, resulting in a dislocated knee and lots of ligament damage for Dan.
I can still clearly recall the way Dan had his hands around the bottom
of his knee, the expression of agony on his face, and his blood-chilling
screams. Dan doesn't remember the accident, but I wouldn't say that
he's missing out.
Greg
--
If you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing.
Ron Hammon
>
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:47:05 -0600, Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet>
> wrote:
> ......
> >My point was that primatives probably did not understand the connection
> >between sex and reproduction. Even if horrendous pain of childbirth was
> >realized and remembered, there would be no negative impact on
> >reproduction. Hence, no genetic advantage to a lowered pain threshold
> >unless the advantage is restricted to labor itself. The only two
> >advantages, in the wild, that I can think of is remaining conscious or
> >adoiding screaming.
>
> least the past 200 years, I'd say human beings were well aware of the
> association.
>
> Ken H.
Genetics don't care about our recent discoveries.
Ron Hammon
>
snip
> of his knee, the expression of agony on his face, and his blood-chilling
> screams. Dan doesn't remember the accident, but I wouldn't say that
> he's missing out.
>
My take on the ommission of memories of aguish is that the "human", the
top shelf layer of our selves, is temporarily overridden by a more
primative layer of "self". While that primative, animalistic "self"
could remember the incident, it didn't really even happen to the
"human". When we go under gas, or something, for, say, dental work; I
believe that the more basic "animal" self is still aware and endures the
ordeal. I wonder what deep emotional scars lurk beneath our calm, human
persona.
As death approaches, the human persona is overtaken by the desparate
survival struggle of the "lower" selves. "Animal attraction" is a
glimpse of the many levels of relationships going on with a couple.
When people are scared "out of their mind", they switch to a baser
self. When people "speak in tounges", they merely switch to a baser,
non-speaking, self.
Some people, like me, have had the experience of driving for hours with
no recollection of the task. The "human" doesn't drive. He reads
signs, calculates milage, and stuff. But, the ape, or less, drives and
can even allow the human to shut down. Ever been too enraged to speak,
or witnessed someone else in that state? The animal was in control. I
once escaped the fury of a HUGE mass of angry wasps by, somehow, leaping
from the back of a barn loft, through a narrow hole nine feet off the
ground and only came "to my senses" when running half way across the
pasture, without a sting and with no recollection of how I did it.
Feets (animal) don't fail me now!
I try to cultivate a good life for the rest of the crew. They don't
care for HDTV. They want warmth, calm, and a full belly... and sex.
thomas
wrote:
>>During trauma, e.g., a painful event like childbirth, neurotransmitters
>>that inhibit memory are dumped on the brain. That lends a little
>>truth to the old saying that "it's the kind of pain you forget".
>>
>
>When I was a kid, I had a bicycle accident. I was sitting still on my bike
>and a big kid rode his bike up and ran me over. (Actually, he just ran
>into me, but it tipped me over.) My head hit the asphalt.
>
>Well, a few minutes later, I started rambling incoherently. Then I guess
>it got painful and I started crying and screaming. My mother decided to
>take me to the emergency room. During the car ride, I lost consciousness.
>I went into a comatose state. Then, my heart stopped, they found I had a
>blood clot on my brain, I was rushed into surgery, and they removed it.
>
>I don't remember anything from that whole experience. What I know (what I
>wrote above) was told to me later. I remember an event that occurred 4
>hours before my accident and I remember waking up two weeks later with a
>swollen noggin and a big scar.
Interesting. If I may add my 2 cents. Once in my youth while playing
football, (corner back), I made a kind of low to the ground, head on
type of tackle of a tailback running a sweep such that, during the
tackle, my testicles were 'sandwiched' between his knee and the turf.
Needless to say, the pain was so intense that I vomited immediately
and was unable to leave the field for some time. I remember the pain
and experience vividly to this day.
Ron Hammon
>
snip
> Interesting. If I may add my 2 cents. Once in my youth while playing
> football, (corner back), I made a kind of low to the ground, head on
> type of tackle of a tailback running a sweep such that, during the
> tackle, my testicles were 'sandwiched' between his knee and the turf.
> Needless to say, the pain was so intense that I vomited immediately
> and was unable to leave the field for some time. I remember the pain
> and experience vividly to this day.
It is interesting that you describe vomiting. After watching yet
another nut crunch joke on TV, I explained to several women that,
contrary to popular opinion, the consequence is more sickness than pain.
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: My take on the ommission of memories of aguish is that the "human", the
: top shelf layer of our selves, is temporarily overridden by a more
: primative layer of "self". While that primative, animalistic "self"
: could remember the incident, it didn't really even happen to the
: "human". When we go under gas, or something, for, say, dental work; I
: believe that the more basic "animal" self is still aware and endures the
: ordeal. I wonder what deep emotional scars lurk beneath our calm, human
: persona.
Ok, so we know who's been playing with VMware[*] lately. :-)
[*] <URL:http://www.vmware.com/>
Greg
--
Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc
informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp.
-- Philip Greenspun
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: It is interesting that you describe vomiting. After watching yet
: another nut crunch joke on TV, I explained to several women that,
: contrary to popular opinion, the consequence is more sickness than pain.
Yeah, it seems like the "barely brushes" tend to be the most painful.
Oh, but it feels so good when they stop hurting. :-)
I've noticed the vomiting response to many kinds of severe pain. What
advantage does an empty stomach afford?
Greg
--
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
conservatives.
-- John Stuart Mill
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: Ken H. wrote:
:
: > Your assertion is likely valid for the pimitive generation, but for at
: > least the past 200 years, I'd say human beings were well aware of the
: > association.
:
: Genetics don't care about our recent discoveries.
Genetics produced our brains, and our brains often win out over our
more basic urges. (At least we like to think so.) For instance,
voluntarily rendering oneself sterile ought to be the ultimate taboo
verboten no-no, but men and women get their tubes tied every day.
Someone (I wish I could remember who) once suggested that life evolved
as a way for the universe to know itself. Similarly, intelligence
opens completely new doors to evolution and genetics.
Greg
--
Of course, this is a heuristic, which is a fancy way of saying that it
doesn't work.
-- mjd
Robert J. Wilson
> : [...] The known connection between sex and reproduction would be
> : necessary for avoidance of subsequent sex to even be a problem.
>
> During trauma, e.g., a painful event like childbirth, neurotransmitters
> that inhibit memory are dumped on the brain. That lends a little
> truth to the old saying that "it's the kind of pain you forget".
One pain technique is to use capsasin, the active ingredient in hot
peppers:
"Topical medications have been demonstrated to be of benefit in patients
with osteoarthritis. Capsasin cream (which is an extract from hot
pepper) interferes with pain fibers and has been demonstrated to be
beneficial when used regularly. Unfortunately, it 'burns' the skin and
some patients cannot tolerate it."
http://www.drkoop.com/conditions/osteoarthritis/library/osteoarthritis_t
reatment.html
Having experimented with homemade, habanaro extract, I found that a
toothpick dipped in the extract and applied to the gum or any point in
the mouth has an initial intense sensation followed by localized
numbness. I'm not ready to use it as an alternative to novacane but I
was impressed.
Here is another reference:
"Capsaicin (ZostrixŽ), a pungent and irritating compound found in red
peppers, has been used topically for centuries to relieve pain (Fusco &
Giacovazzo, 1993). Because it appears to act on a defined set of sensory
neurons involved in nociception, capsaicin's role in pain management
merits examination. The primary effects of capsaicin are related to its
activity in the peripheral portion of the sensory nervous system. It
works to excite nociceptive C-afferent neurons, causing the release of
substance P, which is essential for transmission of nociception to occur
in the nervous system. Repeated application of capsaicin depletes
substance P, leading to inhibition of pain sensation (Markovits &
Gilhar, 1997). Capsaicin has been used to help manage pain in many
different conditions, including diabetic neuropathy, postherpetic
neuralgia, rheumatic diseases, postmastectomy pain, and cluster
headaches. Clinical trials performed in patients with diabetic
neuropathy demonstrated a 50% improvement in pain status with use of
capsaicin for 22 weeks (Tandan, Lewis, Krusinsky, Badger, & Fries,
1992). . . ."
http://www.ampainsoc.org/bulletin/mar99/resupdate.htm
Bob Wilson
Ron Hammon
>
> In article <3A5635...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
> : It is interesting that you describe vomiting. After watching yet
> : another nut crunch joke on TV, I explained to several women that,
> : contrary to popular opinion, the consequence is more sickness than pain.
>
> Yeah, it seems like the "barely brushes" tend to be the most painful.
> Oh, but it feels so good when they stop hurting. :-)
>
> I've noticed the vomiting response to many kinds of severe pain. What
> advantage does an empty stomach afford?
>
Ron Hammon
>
> In article <3A5611...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
> : My take on the ommission of memories of aguish is that the "human", the
> : top shelf layer of our selves, is temporarily overridden by a more
> : primative layer of "self". While that primative, animalistic "self"
> : could remember the incident, it didn't really even happen to the
> : "human". When we go under gas, or something, for, say, dental work; I
> : believe that the more basic "animal" self is still aware and endures the
> : ordeal. I wonder what deep emotional scars lurk beneath our calm, human
> : persona.
>
> Ok, so we know who's been playing with VMware[*] lately. :-)
>
> [*] <URL:http://www.vmware.com/>
>
Another point. Have you noticed how people are asked "Do you dream in
color?"? I have dreamed in color. But, just a few times (as far as I
know). The question should be "How OFTEN do you dream in color?"? The
deapth of a dream state leaves a few clues. Dreaming in color, but NOT
reading or speaking, casts the dreamer in an ape, or early hominid
state. Monochromatic dreams are deeper... older. Reading/writing or
conversational dreams are so shallow as to be, essentially, wakeful.
In a vivid color dream that I once had, I drove up to the intersection
beside my grandfather's farm on a sunny, summer day. As I sat, stopped,
and waited on traffic to pass, I noticed that the stop sign was...
wrong. I can still see the red, octagonal stop sign with the white
border set amid the dark green oak tree leaves. I twisted my head from
side to side because the sign was... defaced, or something. It just had
white squiggles in the middle that made no sense.
Because of my study of dreams and brain function, I realized later that
I had captured a beautiful example of pre-human perception. The dreamer
could not read "STOP". But, that pre-literate, pre-human DROVE!
A friend once relayed a "ridiculous" dream that he once had. He was in
high school, taking an exam. He looked down at his exam and panicked
because it was "spaghetti", and he had forgotten how to understand
spaghetti. I was delighted to find another example of pre-human,
pre-literate dreaming.
Kris Kirby
> > Ok, so we know who's been playing with VMware[*] lately. :-)
Crashes my Athlon everytime. I have a incorrectly built module to attend
to though....
> But, isn't this parallel "worlds" rather than stacked?
Like several copies of VMWare on a quad-SMP machine?
> Another point. Have you noticed how people are asked "Do you dream in
> color?"? I have dreamed in color. But, just a few times (as far as I
I don't sense color when I dream. I just feel another world altogether,
disconnected from this one. Sleep deprivation leads to uncontrolable
dreams; I'm sensing it all, but I'm *not* in control. It also leads to
entering my dream before I have fully ceased to sense my surroundings.
Freaky stuff...
-----
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said.
<kr...@nospam.catonic.net> |
-------------------------------------------------------
"Fate, it seems, is not without a sense of irony."
thomas
wrote:
>In a vivid color dream that I once had, I drove up to the intersection
>beside my grandfather's farm on a sunny, summer day. As I sat, stopped,
>and waited on traffic to pass, I noticed that the stop sign was...
>wrong. I can still see the red, octagonal stop sign with the white
>border set amid the dark green oak tree leaves. I twisted my head from
>side to side because the sign was... defaced, or something. It just had
>white squiggles in the middle that made no sense.
As far as I can remember, I always dream in color. I've also noticed
that I can't read in dreams. On many occasions, in my dreams, I've
stumbled across some wriiten piece of information that contains the
key to whatever I happen to be searching for. For some reason, when I
try to decipher it, all I see is a bunch of meangless symbols.
Ron Hammon
Can you be more specific? I'd love to add another example to the list.
By the way, the reason is that only a specific, upper level brain site
deciphers written "symbols". There are documented cases of stroke
victims who completely lost the ability to read, and were unaffected
otherwise. Some could still write, but they couldn't even read their
own writing.
One bizarre case was a nineteenth century Frenchman who woke up one
morning missing the ability to even see writing as squiggles.
Apparently, deciphering written language is so specific that it is
delegated to a specialist site. Since that site was missing, letters
"disappeared" from pages and signs. They appeared blank to him.
People sometimes speak of dreams with oral conversations. I can
remember a few of mine. People talking in their sleep support this
idea. However, having a conversation in a dream establishes the dreamer
as almost fully awake. I've been unable to determine for sure if
reading is "higher" than speaking. I suspect that it is because
speaking was developed well before writing.
When you move deeper into the ancestry while dreaming, the monochrome
dreams are more about fear, rage, food, sex, or even tribal bonding.
These are very primal, powerful plots but must almost be interrupted to
be remembered.
Most people can remember dreams where actors glance at each other and
"know" the intent of unspoken communication. I'm unsure if this is an
example of communication by expression and body language, or, more
likely, the deeper "animal" fails to associate the noisy utterances that
we make as the reason that we understand each other. To it, the reason
may be "magic" or telepathy, we just "know".
Jeez. I didn't mean to drift so far into this, but it feels good to get
it out.
thomas
wrote:
>Can you be more specific? I'd love to add another example to the list.
One specific example;
A year or so ago, I was heavily (VERY heavily) invested in a company's
stock that my analysis had indicated was severely undervalued due to
analysts not taking into account some underlying trends in the
company's market which would lead to higher than expected earnings in
the quarter soon to be reported. Anyhow, several nights before the
release of the much anticipated earnings report, I had a dream that I
somehow gained access to the report prior to its official release. The
bad part of the dream was that I was unable to read the report.
Another example, somewhat related to the above situation, was a dream
I had where I had tomorrow's newspaper today. Again, I was unable to
read the paper.
Other examples include standing in front of a room of people to give a
presentation but being unable to read slides I had prepared and
sitting down to take tests but being unable to read the test. I can
also vaguely dreams where I couldn't read road signs and such.
Most of the above examples are connected by the fact that I was
stressed by some event that had either just occurred or was soon to
occur.
Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
05 Jan 2001:
>> Interesting. If I may add my 2 cents. Once in my youth while
>> playing football, (corner back), I made a kind of low to the
>> ground, head on type of tackle of a tailback running a sweep such
>> that, during the tackle, my testicles were 'sandwiched' between
>> his knee and the turf. Needless to say, the pain was so intense
>> that I vomited immediately and was unable to leave the field for
>> some time. I remember the pain and experience vividly to this day.
>
>It is interesting that you describe vomiting. After watching yet
>another nut crunch joke on TV, I explained to several women that,
>contrary to popular opinion, the consequence is more sickness than
>pain.
The following is a bit indelicate, but given the subject....
It's a characteristic of older people that the process which began in
puberty of, uh, descending, continues.
An older gentleman was working at a YMCA where I worked. Part of his
duties were to make change in a metal drawer underneath a counter in
the health club. He was accustomed, this being an all male health
club, to not dressing.
I trust I don't need to explain what happened one day when he closed
the drawer (vigorously) after making change. Nor was it necessary to
explain anywhere in the building what had just happened.
--
Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen
crispen at hiwaay dot net
"It is a good rule in life never to apologize. The right sort of
people do not want apologies, and the wrong sort take a mean
advantage from them." - P. G. Wodehouse
rp
It reminds me of an old saying. "The first lier doesn't have a chance".
(not that I don't believe you. the tales from the other guys have became
more dramatic.)
"Ken H." <ken97...@eudoramail.com> wrote in message
news:9meb5tc22e7j2qfkk...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:52:52 -0600, Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet>
> wrote:
> ....
> >Where did your 8.5 dols come from? You describe the mothers of
> >yesteryear as if they made a choice during labor to endure the pain.
> >There is no more a biological advantage of a higher pain threshold to
> >endure childbirth as to endure an amputation without drugs, except,
> >possibly to prevent loss of conciousness.
> .....
>
> One of the advantages of living with an RN for over 43 years was the
> exposure to job related periodicals and journals. My posts are based
> on that past as well as what can be gleaned from the internet. I
> also recall that few men are exposed to more than 5 dols in a lifetime
> whereas a woman exceeds that threshold by a wide margin every time she
> gives birth to a child. The following site measures 10.5 dols during
> childbirth but as I've stated earlier due to psychological and
> physiological factors they actually feel somewhat less.
>
> http://www.firstchiro.com/20pain.htm
>
>
> Surely, you don't believe every woman who experiences childbirth had
> or has the choice to not endure the pain by choosing application of
> drugs? It is a fact that Civil War soldiers had their gangrenous
> limbs amputated without drugs because the supply of morphine was
> limited. And, morphine was only slightly more effective than alcohol.
>
> I came across the chemical in mind. It seems that endorphine floods a
> woman's body along with epinephrine(adrenalien) during childbirth.
> This creates an opiate effect reducing the impact of pain. The level
> of this chemical is higher than during childbirth and even higher
> during limb amputation. One could conclude that the level of this
> natural chemical release is directly proportional to pain levels.
>
> As to that electrical shock test, I am reminded that my wife can't
> stand even a small electrical shock. But, fear is the motivational
> factor in her case. I've worked around electrical circuits all my
> life and I am not unfamiliar with the feeling nor do I fear it.
> Because of my background, I have no doubt I can stand a higher level
> of electric shock than women as a group. But, what dol level am I
> experiencing? The tests you referenced apparently did not use a
> dolorimter. Accordingly I reject any conclusions made from
> electrical stimuli because women as a group are more fearful of the
> unknown electrical shock than men as a group. Perhaps if they
> conducted the test with men and women familiar with electrical shock
> who have been working around electrical sources and are accustomed to
> be exposed and feeling the effects of an electrical shock, the results
> may well be different.
>
>
> Please permit me to digress here for a moment to tell a humorous
> story.
>
> I visited a penny arcade quite often as a teenager and young man.
> Among the many items of entertainment available was a small box-size
> unit with two brass door knobs on it. It was a shock level machine
> with a meter on it indicating the level of shock. The left knob was
> fixed and the right knob rotatable to the right. One grabbed the two
> knobs and rotated the right one to increase the level of shock.
> Experience showed most people couldn't get above a certain level, but
> I was determined. Unfortunately at a given level one looses ability
> to move arm/shoulder muscles and I reached it very quickly. But, I
> pegged the meter and the sensation was felt across my entire arms and
> shoulders. But, in the process of obtaining such a level, I was
> straining with all my ability to hold it there. Unfortunately, the
> latches failed. Whoops! The entire box came loose from it's
> anchors and I was actually holding the unit in my hands as pennies
> fell all over the floor. The more interesting part of this episode
> was that people knew who I was and a crowd always gathered around when
> I was at the machine. Management told me to never use the machine
> again and I, of course, has no incentive since I knew I could beat it.
> Would I do it today? <smile> When young, we do dumb things and I
> am a little wiser now as are people who would put such things out for
> public entertainment.
>
> Ken H.
>
>
>
Ron Hammon
>
> On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 02:52:52 -0600, Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet>
> wrote:
> ....
> >Where did your 8.5 dols come from? You describe the mothers of
> >yesteryear as if they made a choice during labor to endure the pain.
snip
> Surely, you don't believe every woman who experiences childbirth had
> or has the choice to not endure the pain by choosing application of
> drugs?
snip
Drugs? Not at all. I always get a giggle out of hearing two women
mouthing some version of "If MEN had to give birth, we'd go extinct."
Yeah, right. Like many births would happen if women in labor had a
magic button to push and the pregnancy would disappear. It's like
someone caught in a machine being complemented for enduring the pain.
There's really no choice at that point. The same holds true for
childbirth. Women can't be admired for their endurance of childbirth
pain. They had no choice by that time.
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: Greg Bacon wrote:
:
: > Ok, so we know who's been playing with VMware[*] lately. :-)
: >
: > [*] <URL:http://www.vmware.com/>
:
: But, isn't this parallel "worlds" rather than stacked?
No, VMware worlds are stacked.
: Another point. Have you noticed how people are asked "Do you dream in
: color?"? I have dreamed in color. But, just a few times (as far as I
: know). The question should be "How OFTEN do you dream in color?"? The
: deapth of a dream state leaves a few clues. Dreaming in color, but NOT
: reading or speaking, casts the dreamer in an ape, or early hominid
: state. Monochromatic dreams are deeper... older. Reading/writing or
: conversational dreams are so shallow as to be, essentially, wakeful.
I haven't noticed black-and-white dreams, so I assume that I dream
in color.
: In a vivid color dream that I once had, I drove up to the intersection
: beside my grandfather's farm on a sunny, summer day. As I sat, stopped,
: and waited on traffic to pass, I noticed that the stop sign was...
: wrong. [...]
A friend of mine once told me how he tested whether he was dreaming.
If he was in his house, he would look closely at the wallpaper, and if
he saw mistakes, he knew he was dreaming. (I guess the texture mapping
in his brain's video card was cruddy. :-)
I don't have lucid dreams often, but I remember one where lucidity was
triggered when I saw someone that I knew in Mobile and inferred that
I was dreaming.
When I dream, I have a weird sense of kinesthesia. I experience my
dreams from the first person, but sometimes I see myself as though
I were a neutral observer.
Greg
--
> You're a big burly OO dude. Why aren't you programming in Python?
When you live in Australia, you learn to be wary of snakes.
-- Damian Conway speaking of Python
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: Greg Bacon wrote:
:
: > I've noticed the vomiting response to many kinds of severe pain. What
: > advantage does an empty stomach afford?
:
: More than likely, the rapid rejection of poison.
What poison?
Greg
--
No one now dies of fatal truths: there are too many antidotes to them.
-- Nietzsche
Ron Hammon
>
> In article <3A567D...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
> : Greg Bacon wrote:
> :
> : > Ok, so we know who's been playing with VMware[*] lately. :-)
> : >
> : > [*] <URL:http://www.vmware.com/>
> :
> : But, isn't this parallel "worlds" rather than stacked?
>
> No, VMware worlds are stacked.
>
> : Another point. Have you noticed how people are asked "Do you dream in
> : color?"? I have dreamed in color. But, just a few times (as far as I
> : know). The question should be "How OFTEN do you dream in color?"? The
> : deapth of a dream state leaves a few clues. Dreaming in color, but NOT
> : reading or speaking, casts the dreamer in an ape, or early hominid
> : state. Monochromatic dreams are deeper... older. Reading/writing or
> : conversational dreams are so shallow as to be, essentially, wakeful.
>
> I haven't noticed black-and-white dreams, so I assume that I dream
> in color.
Actually, it is the opposite. You must assume monochrome UNTIL color is
noticed. The earlier animal without color vision does not miss color
when dreaming.
>
> : In a vivid color dream that I once had, I drove up to the intersection
> : beside my grandfather's farm on a sunny, summer day. As I sat, stopped,
> : and waited on traffic to pass, I noticed that the stop sign was...
> : wrong. [...]
>
> A friend of mine once told me how he tested whether he was dreaming.
> If he was in his house, he would look closely at the wallpaper, and if
> he saw mistakes, he knew he was dreaming. (I guess the texture mapping
> in his brain's video card was cruddy. :-)
That's pretty interesting. Actually, all of our "video cards" are
cruddy. The brain patches and blends things to suit. That's why you
can't see your blind spot although something can hide in it. I wonder
if he has discovered that the video enhancement mode is off.
>
> I don't have lucid dreams often, but I remember one where lucidity was
> triggered when I saw someone that I knew in Mobile and inferred that
> I was dreaming.
>
> When I dream, I have a weird sense of kinesthesia. I experience my
> dreams from the first person, but sometimes I see myself as though
> I were a neutral observer.
>
Although I can't remember a specific instance of my own, this must be
almost universal because of the reactions to the following dream. I was
told of a dream where he (third person) saw himself in a corner. He
walked over and asked (which illustrates a rare, shallow dream) himself
"Who are you?". "He" (first person) replied "Who's asking?" Everyone
gives an "Ooh!" sort of empathy reaction to the tale.
Ron Hammon
>
> In article <3A566D...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
> : Greg Bacon wrote:
> :
> : > I've noticed the vomiting response to many kinds of severe pain. What
> : > advantage does an empty stomach afford?
> :
> : More than likely, the rapid rejection of poison.
>
> What poison?
>
weird on 'shrooms is to remove the causal "poison". There were a lot of
unfamilier plants out there that had to be investigated by our
ancestors. A halucigenic episode, intoxication, abdominal pain,
dizzyness, tremors, etc. indicated possible poisoning. A vomit reponse
for any suspected case would be practical.
Greg Bacon
Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
: [...] A halucigenic episode, intoxication, abdominal pain,
: dizzyness, tremors, etc. indicated possible poisoning. A vomit reponse
: for any suspected case would be practical.
How would getting kicked in the nuts register as possible poisoning?
Greg
--
I have drunk since I was 15 and few things have given me more pleasure. When
you work all day with your head and know you must again work the next day,
what else can change your ideas and make them run on a different plane like
whiskey? -- Ernest Hemingway
Ron Hammon
>
> In article <3A5AB4...@hiwaay.nyet>,
> Ron Hammon <ham...@hiwaay.nyet> wrote:
>
> : [...] A halucigenic episode, intoxication, abdominal pain,
> : dizzyness, tremors, etc. indicated possible poisoning. A vomit reponse
> : for any suspected case would be practical.
>
> How would getting kicked in the nuts register as possible poisoning?
>
nut crunch is more a case of sickness than pain. But, you spoke of
vomiting in cases of of other severe pain and asked why. I suggested a
natural reaction to possible poisoning. The queazyness of a nut crunch
is enough to register as stomach poisoning, trust me.
randy...@gmail.com
thh...@gmail.com
jgibs...@gmail.com
In about 1968 or '69, I can't recall exactly, a good friend of mine from CT who after high school had gone down south to the University of Alabama sent me one of those bumper stickers and I put it on my guitar case.
He told me at the time that "Eat More Possum" was actually an official recommendation from the local or the state government, or maybe some other association, and that the purpose was to get rid of too many possums cluttering up