Debate against reservations
amol....@tcs.com
hii Bhawani...
read ur mail...seems u are first supporting the policy and then trying to create some kinda arguments on the same..
this is due to people like u that middle class and civilized society is also divided. on the issue.this divide was and is there in Rural india..
but it seems urban india would also get divided on the same....
if u feel that there are some downtrodden and oppressed classes then better solutiom would be to lift em up give them a helping hand...not pull the upper ones down... the only reason the striking students are not finding any support from any political parties is cause we are divided unlike the SC ST and OBC's group who vote enmass for their own selfish reasons.....they put themselves first unlike Striking Students who till now havent resorted to any unlawful activvity or went on rampage....
Regarding Reservation in principle, we believe that it was an exception made to the Right to Equality by the framers of our Constitution. This exception has continued far longer than envisaged. This very fact is a reason enough for us to request the Government to have a second look at the effectiveness of the policy and the way it has been implemented so far. We need to have a status check and we need it before we go ahead with further reservations
The level at which reservation is offered makes a difference. The later the reservation is offered in a candidate’s life, the tougher it becomes to ensure parity. By introducing reservation at lower levels, say in primary schools, the deserving and disadvantaged candidates are given the opportunity earlier in their lives which is much more beneficial. Also, having introduced Reservation at a lower level, the percentage of reserved seats must be progressively reduced as the level increases. We believe if the ailing infrastructure of primary education in India is taken care of at the grassroots level, we might very soon not need a Reservation Policy at all.
I have Friends who have studied in public schools and then got through IIT and other elite colleges only on the basis of their caste rather i should say stolee a seat from smone who deserved it..........i know a gal who was working in Infosys and then went to IIM ..do u think that guy also needed quota..or was she being greated in any different way....that any of else..
If u arereallu concerned about so called oppressed people of jhaajjar and villages u would have asked for quota in primary schools sothat they become self sufficient .... these villagers havent even heardof IIT or IIM to reap their benifits.......and u asking for all the students to come against each and every movement is like BJP asking Aamir to give a statement on kashmir and then on any other damn issue...y didint any of these SC and ST groups raised their voice wen all this shit was happening in Godhra or on kashmir issue..coz they are too self centered and selfish...but many a students did raise money for Gujrat earthquake and had a sslient march against godhra riots..........
All the shit u had written i think ids for ur own selfish reasons...better introspect rather than asking others to do so
Amol Kalra
Asst. Systems Engineer Trainee
Tata Consultancy Services Limited
Mailto: amol....@tcs.com
Website: http://www.tcs.com
 bhawani buswala <bhawani...@yahoo.com> Sent by: HRM...@googlegroups.com 05/29/2006 05:24 MST Please respond to HRM...@googlegroups.com |
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RE: Re: serious PJ!!!! | |
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@ Sumit
thanx for playing the mediating role. waise i dont
think i was fighting with anyone.thanx anyways :-)
@Varun
Varun: “If people don’t understand what’s the
moral of the thing (the mail in this case) then they
should not waste their time – first in reading them
and then giving replies “
Thanx a lot varun for reminding me that I did not get
the moral of the joke. And for the things which u
have prescribed me. But there is one problem with
that.
You say that I should not waste my time reading the
mail, but then how would I get the moral of the mail
without reading it. so there is some logical
inconsistency in your first prescription. But that is
beside the point.
Secondly the prescription that, I should not have
given the reply if I did not get the moral of the
story or didnot subscribe to the joke. I say that try
this same prescription on yourself. If you or anyone
else did not like my response to the mail/joke then
you should have pressed the “delete tab” and
should not have replied. So Varun ji, you yourself is
not following what you prescribe to me.
Waise I don’t agree with your prescription that I
should have not replied. In fact this is a very
dangerous, status quoits, conservative principle for
the intellectual development of any rational human
being. Democracy is all about contestations and
debates and refutations. So I believe that if I
don’t agree with anything I should speak loud and
clear.
Varun: “i guess bhawani sahab....... aapko apni soch
thodi broad karne ki zada zaroorat hai”
Varun sahab main aapka shukrguzaar hun eske liye or
meri hamesha koshish rehti hain ki main apni soch ko
broad karta rahu and this is a conituous process for
me. Lekin logo ke prati absolutely insensitive rehna
or uske baad uske moral ko itna defend karna kissi bhi
sabhya samaaj mein khuli soch ki nahi balki moti soch
ki nishaani hain ( it is not a mark of broad
mindedness but thick mindedness)
@ Vineet
Hi Vineet bhai… nice to see this mail from you. I
remember you coming to section I for sometime and then
leaving science. I am sorry if I was the person who
dissuaded you from studying science. I consider that
to be crime against humanity and you can sue me in the
court of law…lol…ya I used to study in the recess
but not everytime and you know what.. ever since that
time I have been on recess from studies.
Ok before saying anything I would like to make my
stand clear. I support the reservations. I support the
principle of reservation and as far as policy making
is concerned, I think we can agree on modalities once
we agree on the principle.
Vineet:“on indefinite strike and fighting for the
cause...for the nation”
I am sorry vineet, but I don’t understand your
conception of nation. Does only the top 10% of the
population constitute nation. Or only the doctors and
engineer constitute nation.This Youth
(self-proclaimed) for [In]Equality is not at all
representative of the youth of the nation. It is just
the farce which has been hyped by the biased media.
These youths are the same people who went with shoes
polish and brooms saying “ if they will become
doctors then we have to do this menial jobs”
statements such as these blatantly says that these
people don’t have any dignity of labour and hence
dignity of human life. All they care about is their
narrow, parochial self interests. And this is complete
antithetical of conception of nation.
India is a democratic country , and democracy doesnot
mean just the regular election. Democracy means
democracy of thoughts, of equal representations, just
rights. Seeing the diversity of India and
multinational character of Indian nation it becomes
imperative that there is just representation of all
communities. Then only we can have a strong cohesive
nation. If the top 10% keep on misappropraiteing the
resources of nation then we cannot have a strong
nation.
Being a student of politics I don’t think politics
is as bad as you portray it to be. Politicians might
be bad but not politics. And if you belive in
democracy then you have to respect the parliament.
And poeple don’t criticize politics when it
facilitates our subsidized education, when it gives
tax exemption and subsidized lands, when it creates
SEZs. It was the act of the same parliament which led
to formation of AIIMS and IITS. So if people think
that politics is bad then they should not study in
these institutions and should study in private
institutions which are supposedly purged of politics.
The hypocracy of the medicos becomes blatant when many
people fighting for anti-reservation are themselves
on management quotos. The LHMC girls don’t know that
LHMC is 100% reserved for girls. Why are they not
fighting for this reservations. Why the AIIMS medicos
not fighting for the 100% INHOUSE reservations.
Why my medicos friends sitting on indefinite hunger
strike in front of Admin. Building AIIMS ( with
chilled mineral water, fountain fans, cushion mats,
foreign funding, sponsored campaigns) did not come out
in protest against demolition of Babri masjid, burning
of dalits houses in Gohana (100kms from delhi), dalits
lynching in Jhajhar, gujrat riots, sati in rajasthan.
How come they suddenly became so political and
conscious and caretaker of the nation when it came
to reservations for the oppressed people. I think
these are the important questions you should ask you
sister and other people sitting there.
Listen vineet I don’t blame the doctors and
engineers for what they are doing, I blame their
complete ignorance of history and sociology of Indian
society. and for this I blame the system which never
let them came in interaction with the country’s
history and realities.AIIMS and IITs operate in bubble
completely isolated from the reaities of indian
nation.
Listen caste is the reality in India( read any basic
book on sociology) and people who says that economic
is the criterion and not the caste, I want to know if
economic is the criterion then why are upper class
(means ecomonically well) women not represented
equally as upper class male. The answer is that the
system have structural bias in favor of "upper" caste
male. This structure is against the women, dalits etc.
I think I have written to much for a mail. I will
stop it here for the time being.
Peace in the Middle East.
bhawani
--- Vineet Aggarwal <dialv...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> bhawaani bhaiya....kaisan ho??? aap to ishkool ke
> baad dikhai hi nahi diye!!
> well..i dunno if u remember me (i was in I section
> for abt 2 weeks)...bt i distinctly remember u...the
> one person bcoz of whom i left
> sciences!!...lol...nothing against u yaar...just dat
> u used to study books weighing in kilos everytime
> and during recess as well...which scared me off
> science subjects!!!
>
> anyways....just wanted to write few words on this
> ongoing debate among my batchmates coz i was bit
> involved in this anti-reservation thing (my sister
> being among the doctors who are on indefinite strike
> and fighting for the cause...for the
> nation)....YOUTH FOR EQUALITY
>
> to start with...no offence meant against any1...
> just to clarify tht this fight is not against any
> race (as bhawani has been mentioning)...neither
> religion....nor CASTE...as has been popularly
> misinterpreted...may be Tiyanshu's mail was
> referring to this wrong direction of caste
> discrimination....
> This fight is against those politicians who are
> trying to divide the nation on the basis of
> different categorisation of india (called
> caste)..and just want to binge upon votes (called
> people) for their selfish motives!!
>
> I would like to clarify that it is not a movement
> against any particular caste or class. Infact it is
> all for the upliftment of the economically backward.
> As a matter of fact, there are members from all
> classes and castes.
>
> And i can vouch for this...coz i, myself was present
> there during the rally on ramlila grounds..there
> were members from all strata of population....
>
> Having said that, i agree tht mail of astrounats and
> all was not in the right taste.....coz the point, as
> i mentioned, is not SC/ST/OBC....its
> reservation...and dats wat we are against!!
>
> though i dunno who tiyanshu is.... i just hope she
> didnt mean to direct it against any1 in particular
>
> AND YA...for the whole group...rather than just
> vocally being active here....GO AND SUPPORT the
> community fighting against the politicians....SAY NO
> TO RESERVATION..
>
> Lets join in....Vineet
> [We hereby declare, WE THE YOUTH OF INDIA WILL NOT
> TAKE THESE UNJUST MEASURES LYING DOWN. We will stand
> up and fight till the end. We will fight PEACEFULLY,
> yet FORCEFULLY, with COURAGE and CONVICTION. "Slap
> me hard and I will turn the other cheek, but I will
> never turn around" ]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 10:56:02 -0700> From:
> bhawani...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: serious
> PJ!!!!> To: HRM...@googlegroups.com> > > To
> Tiyanshu,> > I apologize if my mail had some strong
> words. I will> refrain from it in future. > > What
> provoked me to write that mail was that I found>
> your joke very racist. I am very sensitive as any>
> rational thinking human being would be towards the>
> oppression of gender, caste or communal. And your
> joke> made fun of all these social categories in a
> very> racist way. I don�t have any problem if you>
> subscribe to Social Darwinism and make such jokes,
> but> then when you make such jokes in popular
> discourse(> which I assume all internet forums are,
> including this> egroup) then you should defend your
> arguments as well.> Engage in the debate and justify
> your jokes. And this> sole was the intention of my
> previous mail.> > �i never thght i'd b writing
such
> a mail to any of r> batchmates becoz i m not a rude
> person�> I appreciate it and agree that its good
to
> be not> rude, but why you giving this privilege to
> only your> bacthmates and not to the religious
> minorities,> castes and other people u have referred
> in the joke> > frankly speaking even I do not know
> you either. And> this substantiate my point that my
> mail was not> targeted at a particular person but
> the joke. > > Anyways, no hard feeling from my side
> as your mail was> not less rude and I see the whole
> thing in the light> of broader debate.> > >
> bhawani> > > --- TIYANSHU <tiya...@gmail.com>
> wrote:> > > To, bhawani buswala> > first of all
> whosoever u r i don knw u,> > n secondly u need not
> tell me wat all i need to buy> > on my next
> shopping> > trip.> > > > in case u hav ( or for
> that matter anyone has) any> > prob reading my mails
> or> > any such mails then there is a delete tab
> which u> > can make use of instead of> > giving me
> sugg or any such unwanted comments.> > u pl keep ur
> intellectual powers to urself. i m> > happy wid
> mine.> > i never thght i'd b writing such a mail to
> any of r> > batchmates becoz i m not> > a rude
> person but ur mail made me do this.so better> > b
> careful> > > > tiyanshu> > > > > >> > > > >
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Varun bhatia
kya baat hai.................kalra in action . Sahi beta jiyo. Good to know u r still alive :) i thot mar gaya aur mera ek shaadi ka khana kam ho gaya :)