Angelic upstarts-interview
Schtikkadent
Interview with the ANGELIC UPSTARTS
Interview by Mark, a member of the Morning Star newspaper [Britains only
daily socialist newspaper], with the grateful help of Mensi [Angelic
Upstarts], and Kid Stoker [Red London].
For details of a great new compilation CD [with Spizz, The Mekons, Red
London, Red Alert, The Angelic Upstarts, D.M.S, The Indestructible Beat, TV
Smith, Attila the Stockbroker] see the Morning Star Web Page.
A new music was hammering out a revolutionary message; the style was of a
form "anyone can get up and have a go"! This music was labelled PUNK, some
people labelled the movement new wave. The North East produced its quota of
bands for this brutal, angry sound. The Proles, Penetratian, were just two
of the them. But this interview concentrates on the Angelic Upstarts camp,
with the Angelic Upstarts and their musical cousins Red London being
featured. Red Alert (musical brother to Red London) were another band from
this staunchly anti-fascist camp.
The Angelic Upstarts music was a brutal, angry sound, but melodic all the
same. The best sound to describe the Angelic Upstarts sound is "a classic
standard working class thrash; a predictable and hardly timeless jolt of
accented electric rabble rousing. But no less effective for it". Red
London's sound was similar with its emphasis on its sound from the streets;
raw and simple anthems about working class life. And although similar to
their heroes the Angelic Upstarts brilliant all the same. In 1978 when most
bands were singing about anarchy the Angelic Upstarts were producing their
first release "The Murder of Liddle Towers" a protest song about the not so
clear actions of the police with a man in detention.
The foundations had been laid the path set for a course of asking
questions that a lot of other bands didn't quite want to reach. 1979 brought
this avenue into public gaze with their stomping single "Teenage Warning".
It entered the charts and gave them a tea time slot on Top of the Pops; a
lovely starter for anyone about to engage in their tea! The Angelic Upstarts
released many singles of quality; still asking the questions, probing and
always straight to the point. "Last Night Another Solider", "Two Million
Voices", "Kids on the Street", Never 'ad Nothing" were early examples of
these mind ticking albums.
Unfortunately though being a punk band at that time and taking a
progressive attitude of speaking up about the issues of the day (including
racism and fascism) they had trouble with the far right at venues. A racist
element was making a presence at concerts against bands they perhaps
respected musically but not lyrically/politically. The Angelic Upstarts and
Red London's ground was chosen; flag posted squarely and firmly in the right
place, staunchly in the anti fascist corner. But hearing accusations,
rumours, images about the Angelic Upstarts front man/vocalist Mensi; you'd
perhaps think he was the Henry Cooper of Punk! But after speaking, meeting
the front man of one of the most successful and well known bands from the
new wave era (Seven hit singles/ Four top 50 albums) your perceptions will
quickly change.
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Mensi sat back in his black mastermind armchair and kicked off his story,
which was just the start of what was going to be a very interesting
afternoon. Talking of the "highs and lows" of his bands (not finished yet!);
he highlighted the highs of many benefit concerts the Angelic Upstarts had
done for Anti Fascist Action. National and international concerts have
obviously left a mark on this big hearted man, the real high was an Italian
concert they'd turned up to; and looking at the crowed he'd seen vast waves
of people sporting anti fascist/racist memorabilia.
But he talked of lows also; the one that gave him concern was when the far
right attacked the band. It was at the Astoria in 1990 when elements of the
far right attacked the band with drainpipes. Kid Stoker had reflected on Red
London's highs and lows; his personal thoughts were of simple progress from
learning to play that extra chord on a guitar, to moving to writing good
songs. Then onto finding yourself in a recording studio and even singing
your first record contract, even though the label should be trading under
the name 'Sharks-R-Us!'.
Also holding your first recording and then reading the cover until your eyes
hurt; Kid Stoker emphasising that they may be simple facts, but they carry
great satisfaction for a musician. He talked of great gigs; one in Geneva at
a squat run by punks and radical students. The venue was sandwiched between
rich houses and even richer banks! During the sound check armed police
descended on the venue, being English and unused to seeing armed police, Red
London quickly raised their hands for surrender. Amazement though! The
squatters calmly told the police of their rights, the police turned around
and went. They now had their own special enclave; there own Utopia, if only
for twelve hours. The lows; Kid Stoker did say "we've had regrets; but then
again, too few to mention. Wait a minute! I've just turned in to a socialist
Frank Sinatra!".
Onto the favourite question, musical influences. Kid Stoker spoke of his
influences they were the Beatles, Small Faces, The Who (in the mid sixties),
early seventies Slade, Mick Jones from the Clash for showing how you work a
Les Paul with style, likewise Joe Strummer for writing the punk manifesto.
And a young Paul Weller for writing classic three minute anthems in the late
1970's. Mensi also showed great respect to the Clash; especially Joe
Strummer. If you listen to the Angelic Upstarts, Red London and Red Alert,
you will definitely hear and feel the influence of the Clash. I asked Mensi
about the market for a punk revival; a lot of bands are reforming. A lot of
new bands are quoting punk and new wave bands as influences. Mensi said the
scene is picking up in this country; although it is stronger in Europe. He
still believes though there's no substitute for live acts; and with punk and
new wave you can definitely afford to watch bands live.
I would have thought the Angelic Upstarts would have had a life of alcohol
on tap etc. in their heyday. Mensi quickly dampened down that theory! The
band were being paid Ł25 a week (unemployment benefit at that time was
Ł27.50). But of course; managers and record companies were obtaining more
that unemployment benefit. Only just!!? Mensi once said in an interview "I
hate it when you go down the Marquee and kids come up to you to buy them a
drink and when you tell them you ain't go no money they don't believe you.
Sometimes I get very cynical with the kids". It does go to show the calibre
of this man, leaving a job of being a miner with a regular income; to become
the lead singer of a band that was to become the political cutting edge of
the punk movement. With no money coming forth he is a man of courage,
determination and principle. As with the band.
A person like Thomas Mensforth (Mensi) who is admired by many, is quick to
show his admiration for other people, he was very quick to show respect and
admiration towards Arthur Scargill. It was no surprise after reading quotes
about Mensi being labelled the Arthur Scargill of punk! Mensi said "I wish I
was half the man he was, and I wish I was half the man he is." "He was
honest and true to his friends and comrades." Now for a man with his
reputation (Mensi) to wish yourself to be half the man someone else is; this
shows how much the man respects Mr Scargill. The Angelic Upstarts did a lot
for the miners during the strike (also at least two tracks "Blackleg Miner"
and "Jarrow Women" reflect this position). Kid Stoker reeled admiration's
for George Orwell, William Morris, Keir Hardye, Tom Payne, Nelson Mandella,
Muhammad Ali, Rosseau, Thomas More and George Best! Perhaps punk does have a
conscience then; not just the media led image of yellow hair, Doc Martins
and sniffing glue. Read on and find out.
Everyone talks of their childhood memories; the times when most people
remember only good times, the long summer holidays, doing what you wanted to
do. I talked to Mensi and Kid Stoker about their childhood's, I asked them
did their childhood's have any influence on their views today. Kid Stoker
had no doubt about the fact that his traditional working class upbringing of
life in the North East had a lasting effect on his beliefs. His father and
uncles all worked in the shipyards; his grandfather was a dustbin man. And
although they were never great radicals as such, they all possessed this
incredible working mans dignity. And they all had three basic beliefs they
never broke. 1. Join a Trade Union. 2. Vote Labour. 3. Never trust a Tory.
Mensi told me his childhood had been a totally working class type
background; being brought up on Labour politics, considering the Tories as
an enemy. He also mentioned he never had no contact with fascists in the
North East until he moved down to London. His father was a miner for 25
years and they lived on a council estate (Brockley Whins).
The conversation quickly got onto the subject of Tony Blairs New Labour
(sounds like a dodgy disco band). Mensi couldn't wait to spill the words
"He's a better capitalist than Thatcher; at least Thatcher was more honest.
You knew where you stood, at least Thatcher didn't pretend to be working
class". He said he was totally disillusioned with the Labour Party. Kid
Stokers thoughts were "In many respects the election of Tony Blair is the
final triumph of Thatcherism. Blair is Margaret's final joke. If ever there
was a liberal economist in Labour clothing, then it's Tony Blair. Any
politician who smiles that much clearly has something to hide". So yes Mr
Tony Blair we all know you have a Conservative Party membership card tucked
under the carpet!
So if you don't want a New Labour government (as in new New Labour
government), what sort of establishment do you want? Kid Stoker answered "I
would like to witness something like the election of the 1945 government, a
party with a vision elected by a landslide by a British people truly wanting
radical change. Only this government would not stop at a National Health
Service and a Welfare State, but instead continue steps (political) three
four and five and so on until we have a truly socialist state. And when was
the last time the British voters had well and truly had enough of the Tories
and wanted a change? The last general election, right? But instead we got
short-changed by New Labour Spinning tired Thatcher economic policies".
So perhaps Shane Warne couldn't even get into the Labour Cabinet team!? Not
even 12th man. Mensi asked for a truly socialist government; he would love
to see it happen. He did refer to Britain being the last place in Europe to
achieve a true socialist government, his views were that there's not a big
enough challenge from the left. He feels that the challenge from the left
needs to come from the working class as he felt it tended to more in Europe.
But he still holds the view that it will take something catastrophic to
happen,; to nudge people into really opting for radical change. He was
worried though that Europe seems to be taking the same path of events that
occurred before, during World War II; haven't we learned enough from that?
If the left isn't challenging enough in this country then at the moment; do
they need to unite? Can they? Is this the way forward? Mensi quickly
responded that he'd love to see the broad left unite; but he had
reservations that it had to be working class led.
Getting back to the government we've got now though we spoke about the
question a lot of people ask; "Why after 20 years of a sinister Tory
Government, and then obtaining a Labour government with a massive majority
(remembering they've spent 20 year in the wilderness talking about the evils
of a capitalist Tory government). Have they dropped all their principles and
changed so much"? Mensi angrily talked about the face that they've got a
"cushy" now. They have a fixation with privatisation because they've seen
the success of the Tories making the rich, richer. They amazingly don't want
to upset a few people by lessening the gap between rich and poor. Is this
what Labour are talking about when they burble on about new deals between
industry and workers? More wage cuts/freezes, less trade union rights (in
reality). You can't upset a few industrialists, but you can upset millions
of workers who voted for you to help them.
Mining was important around the North East and Mensi was a miner, I spoke to
him and Kid Stoker about the miners strike. Mensi's blunt, straight to the
point, mode kicked in. He quickly put the blame on the Labour Party for the
failure of the strike. He did say though it did flush out the real enemies
of the miners, people. He did regard thought that the Heath government in
the 1970's had this idea of running the mining industry; but still believes
though that Neil Kinnock quite ably abetted Thatcher's brainstorm of
splitting the Trade Union movement, hammering whole working class
communities into the ground. He did quote "Not the Welsh windbag; but
scumbag".
Kid Stoker had a lot to say about this subject that always hits a nerve with
a lot of miners; especially North East working class people. Kid Stoker
emphasised this with telling us about the benefit gigs they played; the gigs
were on the front line. It was their communities, if you were lucky you left
school and obtained work in the mines. He spoke of personal contributions
from people who lost homes due to striking for their jobs, their future.
Non-political people were turned into flying pickets. Kid Stoker spoke about
the incident that really stood out during the miners strike. During the end
of the strike, asleep one morning, he was suddenly woken up by a loud roar.
It was the sound of men, striking Wearmouth miners.
The scab bus had turned up for work with the usual 200 police escort, he
couldn't see anything but hear. "And that cry, that roar of men, confirmed
to me, then more than ever, the sheer power of working men." "It was the
sheer realisation of the power of the working class and when the power is
truly harnessed when that roar becomes truly unified, then the whole world
will hear it."
Someone has to sort out problems, we have many in this country, who would
you like to see as prime minister to tackle them. "Arthur Scargill" Mensi
said in an answer quick enough to be given on a prize show. (As long as it
wasn't a Jimmy Tarbuck, Ted Rodgers, Paul Daniels, Bob Monkhouse one!) Kid
Stoker replied "Tony Benn"; he said he'd like to see Alistair Campbell try
and spin Tony Benn out of his crease.
One question though I was nagging to ask the panel; was a question that even
Colombo wouldn't even be able to work out! Tony Blair recently said that
class divisions are over now, class isn't an issue any more. I don't
understand I am working class and so are you Mensi and Kid Stoker. So if
class isn't an issue, and divisions are over why is:
1.. Grants being abolished (only people with a lot of money can get higher
education)
2.. Trade Union rights being watered down in various ways (new titles, new
deals, working councils instead of unions). I thought you needed unions to
watch over working people. The ones that are unfortunately low paid etc.
Aren't they usually working class.
3.. A Small but over looked point; if class isn't an issue then and
there's no divisions (as in the word division _ act of dividing, barrier,
section) Why on our railway carriages, (well used to be ours until we had
them sold off) do we have first and second class apartments. Why are we also
reminded of our class divisions on the train over the tannoy about services
you can get from first class apartments? Or does the new government look at
the word division in other terms (Army unit, method of finding how many
times one number is).
Mensi did give an answer, a short one. "Tony has his head stuck!"
So after that short answer I asked Mensi what does the future hold for the
working class in this country? He sadly replied that the working class has
been eroded in this country, they're becoming dinosaurs. Tony Blair wants
the working class to be unchallenging and quiet proles. I thought that's
what Margaret Thatcher wanted?
Ireland was mentioned and Mensi sprang into action, "love to see a united
Ireland". Although he thought the Conservatives got the ball rolling with
the idea; not through humanitarian values, but due to the sheer cost of the
operation to the British government with occupying Ireland. He did have
another point to make; he was urging support for the Republican movement in
Ireland. He said the left supported nearly ever left rebel organisation
throughout the world; but tended to neglect the movement in Ireland. Which
was one of the most strongest socialist movements; evolved from great
hardships.
Racism and fascism was next on the menu; starters were finished. We're now
on the main course; I asked Mensi about what was happening in Europe.
Particularly in the Czech Republic where a so called western liberal
democracy; was having walls built round so called "decent citizens in the
community". This was to keep them separated from Romaine's. Worryingly Mensi
stated that people are so ignorant of history; haven't they learned enough
from the past, a lack of education is partly to blame. Mensi quoted "It
takes 10 hours of counter knowledge to balance one hour of fascist
propaganda". "The simplest lies are the easiest to believe"; he said.
I then asked Mensi about his involvement with Anti-Fascist Action; why did
he become involved. He had been attacked physically and verbally by the far
right. He quoted the first attack was around 1978 by the Young National
Front.
Another subject I knew Mensi would have at least a little to say about was
the subject of the police authorities in this country. At least two tracks
by the Angelic Upstarts have set the agenda on this subject; the tracks
"Police Oppression" which quotes ["I just can't take much more of this
oppression, I'm going off my head and going for aggression"], and "The
Murder of Liddle Towers" a classic song asking how and who killed this
gentleman while in police custody. Mensi's thoughts especially about the
Stephen Lawrence murder was one of respect to the Lawrence family. He wasn't
surprised about the police actions but was surprised by the sheer amount of
determination, courage and doggedness of the Lawrence family. Mensi quoted
"The police have never changed since they supported the Blackshirts".
Asking Mensi about the world in general; he would like to see Britain be
part of Europe. For cultures to be shared, he did think people in Europe
were a lot more relaxed than people in Britain. He urged people to travel;
to break down barriers. Modern eastern Europe wasn't left out; was eastern
Europe a better place now the wall had been knocked down. Are people better
off? Or have they been conned and betrayed. He thought eastern Europe was
now part of the western disease. "It's a disgrace what's happened to eastern
Europe/Soviet Union. They've had their taste; crime, drugs and the rise of
fascism in the so called western liberal democracies." And "Boris Yelsin is
a bigger crook than Thatcher." He though Gorbachoff was an honest man who
wanted a gradual change; but who was betrayed. "Gorbachoff wanted new wheels
and tyres. But Yelsin hijacked; took over, and still ended up with a broken
down Lada."
Conspiracy theories; we see plenty of films about them. People are writing
books about them. Perhaps there's always been someone watching over us from
the year man was created. Mensi warned us that the computer age is here; big
brother is watching you and it won't be long before everything is monitored.
Anyone with conflicting views is a heretic: ie. Anti fascists, socialists. I
thought CCTV was to stop crime, I thought computers were to benefit mankind,
supermarket saver cards to help loyal shoppers to save money. So what was
the poll tax for, credit debit cards for, mobile phones for?!
The chat went into lighter discussion and questions were asked about the
future of the Angelic Upstarts. Mensi told me he still has the urge to go
on; he still thinks there is something to say. People are listening; he does
want to stop but the magic keeps the urge ticking over. He would love a son
to take up the feat his father has endured all these years. He won't force
messages down his sons' throat; all he'll teach him is fair play and not to
hate.
New album in the pipeline? The new album is to be an anti fascist album; no
confusion about it being anti fascist. He did add that he still considers
himself to be non-political, and no political allegiance to anyone. And
doesn't regard anti fascism as political, but as a civil right. Well if
Mensi's not political, I'd hate to meet anyone who is!
I asked if he had any regrets during his life. He did; a big regret. He
spoke about that he wished he'd not been in the neutral corner in the early
days. He was anti fascist; but he tried not to anger the far right lyrically
in songs, and to entertain (as in being near, same are etc) as the far right
involved in gigs etc. He tried to keep the violence away but after threats,
physically and verbally he could no longer take that line. He said that AFA
were a necessary organisation that needs to be supported by all rank and
file. He also said that AFA wouldn't exist if it weren't for the far right.
His final few messages were of worry for the working class in this country,
he gave some advice to them "Look into the murkyness and cloudiness of the
seat; keep on enquiring and asking". He worried about the lack of work for
the working class. He said that people should work but where's the posters
telling you where to go. Not a computerised dummy run unemployment centre
that is trained in how many ways to tell you that you should have a job; but
we haven't any or many here. Where have all the industries gone? Mensi spoke
of the times he goes into the unemployment office and asks them the
questions; find me work, where's the work. Where do the kids go now? Crime?
Mensi had a message for the Morning Star "Hope that the Morning Star keeps
going; an alternative voice it must carry on and it is needed" He said he
wouldn't hesitate to support the Star because it needs to be supported.
Kid Stoker's final words of advice were 1. Join a Union. 2. Vote Labour. 3.
Never trust a Tory.
I will say or add a little to that quote; isn't voting Labour trusting a
Tory?
But thanks go to Mensi and Kid Stoker; but also to the Angelic Upstarts, Red
London and Red Alert for their great support. Cheers Lads.
J_U_R_A
"Schtikkadent" <crkveni...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a6e27g$vat$1...@garrison.globalnet.hr...
> ..nakon malo kopanja,najbolje sto nađoh je sljedece..
> Interview with the ANGELIC UPSTARTS
> Interview by Mark, a member of the Morning Star newspaper [Britains only
(kitte) kat
ko će to sve prochitat :)
--
I've been a punk since my mom stuck a safety pin through my first pair of
diapers !
Schtikkadent
"J_U_R_A" <J_U...@vip.hr> wrote
> > Interview by Mark, a member of the Morning Star newspaper [Britains only
>
> (kitte) kat
>
> ko će to sve prochitat :)
daleko si stigao :)