OT: Mac mini upgrade

[Jeff Hester]

Hi friends,

We just got back from visiting my in-laws. They have one of the first Mac Minis. It has 512 MB RAM and a 40 GB hard drive. When I was using it I thought it seemed really slow. I have always been keeping it updated for them. It is running 10.5.8.

After shopping around I can spend about $100 and update their hard drive to a 160 GB 5400 (verses 4200 which they have now) and 1 GB of RAM.

Just curious is it worth spending the money on it or should they get a much newer one?

Thanks.

-- Jeff

[Angelo Danio]

2011/12/24 Jeff Hester <jwhe...@gmail.com>

one of the first Mac Minis.  It has 512 MB RAM and a 40 GB hard drive.  

Just curious is it worth spending the money on it or should they get a much newer one?

 

actually I run tiger in an older emac (G4 1Ghz 1GBRAM) dual booting with xubuntu 10.04 LTS (actual long tem release) and Debian 6 in an iBook (G4 1Ghz 1.25GBRAM) succesfully, but in opposite you can have for less then 300$ a last generation netbook with linux installed ... or a 200$ android.

angelo

[Kris Tilford]

On Dec 24, 2011, at 2:08 PM, Jeff Hester wrote:

> Just curious is it worth spending the money on it or should they get
> a much newer one?

I think it's time for something newer. I have a 1.42GHz Mini
overclocked to 1.58GHz and it's too slow for hi-res HD streaming
video. The achilles heel of these G4 Minis is the video cards. They're
only 32MB on almost all, or 64MB on the 1.5GHz only, and this is a
bottleneck for any video capabilities required by modern streaming
video. There is no way to upgrade the video card, so the best use for
an old Mini would be attached to a smaller, lower-resolution display
to minimize the load on the bottleneck.

That original 1.25Ghz Mini can overclock to 1.42GHz; which is a nice
speed bump, but it won't help the video card issue, and might cause
heat issues if the HD runs hotter than normal.

Upgrading this Mini is the correct thing to do. If I had to used it
daily I'd certainly get the 1GB RAM module and overclock it to 1.42GH.
If it needs a larger, faster HD an external Firewire HD might be
cheaper and better. There are fancy external HDs like the NewerTech
MiniStack that match the Mini profile. Since 3.5" HDs are so much
cheaper than 2.5", the external is usually larger & faster for the
same price, and avoids some heat issues that some internal HDs cause.

Personally, I'd consider an Intel hack as a replacement. You sell the
Mini, add $100, and get something used that's a lot faster and more
capable. Upgrade to 10.6.8 and forget about any OS updates hopefully
forever.

[Jeff Hester]

One thing I should have noted is the location where they have the Mini really works great because it is such a small area. Are there any suggestions on a small form factor Hack? I know I used to have a Shuttle and was pleased with it. -- Jeff

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[pete...@cruzio.com]

> After shopping around I can spend about $100 and update their hard drive
> to a 160 GB 5400 (verses 4200 which they have now) and 1 GB of RAM.
>
> Just curious is it worth spending the money on it or should they get a
> much newer one?

I have just such a Mac Mini for support of pre-Intel applications.

Mine has been upgraded to 1 GB (the maximum) and two 160 GB Spinrite
drives (there is an eBay seller which sells an HD carrier which physically
replaces the optical drive).

The OS is 10.5.8 Server.

My Spinrites came from Micro Center. They are one of the few which still
stock 160 GB 2.5" ATA drives.

In the last analysis, a Hack is actually less expensive than upgrading an
old Mini.

First, to run any version of Server will cost a bundle, whereas Lion
Server on a Hack costs only $49.

Second, 2.5" ATA drives are getting tough to find, particularly at an
affordable price.

Third, such a Mini is S-L-O-W.

[Jeff Hester]

Peter,

Thank you for your information.

Which Shuttle would you recommend for the lowest cost and lowest maintenance?

Thanks.

-- Jeff

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> Are there any
> suggestions on a small form factor Hack? I know I used to have a Shuttle
> and was pleased with it.

Shuttles are still quite usable.

I have one X27D (Atom 330), four SP35s (various, but presently a fast
Pentium 4 EM64T with H-T, using Snow Leopard and the
mach_kernel_non-atom), one SH55 (some LGA 1156 proc, not sure which) and
one SH67 (an LGA 1155 i5 proc, using Server Lion).

Get your Shuttles from eBay's so-called "Shuttle Store" (a division of
Shuttle Inc, which is used to "off" older models at prices which are far,
far below Shuttle Inc's retailers), usually with "free" shipping, or get
yours from NewEgg as an "open box" and save a bundle.

Some folks have complained about DOA units, but I have bought dozens of
Shuttles and have never had a DOA.

Shuttle's tech support is "aces", and they are quick to issue updates to
their BIOS for new proc support.

A downside is they are completely oblivious to MacOS X. No matter, as I
have yet to have a Shuttle which could not run MacOS X.

Of course, I do my own DSDTs, so perhaps that is a factor in my success.

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> Which Shuttle would you recommend for the lowest cost and lowest
> maintenance?

The SG31 is the minimum I would go with.

The SP35 has been "unobtanium" for some time, but I regard it as the best
Shuttle ever made. The SP45 is even rarer.

The SH67 is nice, buy I have yet to get sound working with it using
ALC8xxHDA. Voodoo worked on 10.7, but it KPs on 10.7.2. Probably a
candidate for a USB dongle.

The SH61 is new, and looks good. I have no experience with it.

Basically, Shuttle designs the most that they can into the box. Usually
Firewire. Sometimes USB 3.0 (but, alas, using the non-supportable ASMedia
chip set). ALWAYS some standard Intel chip set ... ICH7, ICH9, ICH10,
etcetera. Usually, a Marvell LAN (88E8056), but sometimes a Realtek
(R8111, etcetera).

They are building boxes which pack the max into the smallest size for
"gamers" and other, similar types. Usually four RAM slots, except for the
older GMA950 models.

All their older models have Award BIOSes and are eminently hackable. All
their recent models have AMI BIOSes and are hackable, with some effort.

Right now, Shuttle's eBay Store "Shuttle Store" is "offing" their LGA 1156
SH55 model for very low bux. With "free" shipping, too.

It is a good model and even includes liquid cooling of the proc.

I still have mine, but my attention was quickly turned to the newer SH67
model (LGA 1155).

Hard to go wrong with an Intel-based Shuttle.

I can supply DSDTs for most of those models.

[Jeff Hester]

I thought last year you kind of panned the SH55J2. Have you changed your mind about it?

Thanks.

-- Jeff

[mosslack]

On Dec 24, 2011, at 11:38 PM, Jeff Hester wrote:

I thought last year you kind of panned the SH55J2.  Have you changed your mind about it?

Thanks.

-- Jeff

If you haven't already, give this NE category a quick look. There are quite a few systems available similar to the Shuttle these days:

http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=309&name=Mini-Booksize-Barebone-Systems&Page=1

Just a message from mosslack...

______________________________

GG <+> TBIE <+> Hack List <+> Alt-OS

[pete...@cruzio.com]

>> I thought last year you kind of panned the SH55J2. Have you changed
>> your mind about it?

I was having problems with what turned out to be my very first AMI BIOS
machine, the Shuttle SH55.

Once I understood the issues, and eventually published the AMI BIOS DSDT
Hacking Guide, those problems had all been resolved.

I went on to buy a second Shuttle SH55 and then a Shuttle SH67.

In between those two were two ASRock AMI BIOS P55 mobos and one ASRock AMI
BIOS P55 Pro mobo.

So, chalk it up to a steep learning curve on AMI BIOS DSDTs, since
completely resolved.

My Shuttle SH67 was installed with Server Lion using Kakewalk 4 and it
worked the very first time.

My subsequent Lion and Server Lion installs have used UniBeast.

I no longer have anything against AMI BIOSes. In fact, they (AMI) have a
lot more on the ball than Award does, with specific respect to MacOS X
compatibility.

Specifically, there are no special hacks to the DSDT which are required to
avoid CMOS resets and various kinds of kernel panics, unlike Award BIOS
DSDTs which require many such hacks for use beyond Leopard.

Here ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shuttle-SH55J2-Socket-1156-Barebone-/370528545828

... is Shuttle Store's eBay item for an SH55. They state that these are
refurbs, but I believe this is subterfuge to circumvent "price protection"
agreements with their actual retailers.

$149 and change including "free" shipping for a unit which takes your
choice of LGA 1156 procs and DDR3 RAM. Add those, a hard drive and an
optical drive and you will have a pretty decent machine.

Get a proc which doesn't have on-carrier video and then use a supported
video card (8400GS or better).

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> Specifically, there are no special hacks to the DSDT which are required to
> avoid CMOS resets and various kinds of kernel panics, unlike Award BIOS
> DSDTs which require many such hacks for use beyond Leopard.
>
> Here ...
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shuttle-SH55J2-Socket-1156-Barebone-/370528545828
>
> ... is Shuttle Store's eBay item for an SH55. They state that these are
> refurbs, but I believe this is subterfuge to circumvent "price protection"
> agreements with their actual retailers.
>
> $149 and change including "free" shipping for a unit which takes your
> choice of LGA 1156 procs and DDR3 RAM. Add those, a hard drive and an
> optical drive and you will have a pretty decent machine.

I have updated the SH55's DSDT.

Available upon request.

[pete...@cruzio.com]

>> Here ...
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shuttle-SH55J2-Socket-1156-Barebone-/370528545828
>>
>> ... is Shuttle Store's eBay item for an SH55. They state that these are
>> refurbs, but I believe this is subterfuge to circumvent "price
>> protection"
>> agreements with their actual retailers.
>>
>> $149 and change including "free" shipping for a unit which takes your
>> choice of LGA 1156 procs and DDR3 RAM. Add those, a hard drive and an
>> optical drive and you will have a pretty decent machine.
>
> I have updated the SH55's DSDT.
>
> Available upon request.

I have CONFIRMED proper operation of the Shuttle SH55 using my latest DSDT
and with an nVidia 7200GS/7300GS and 4 x 2 GB = 8 GB of Corsair XMS3 DDR3
RAM (using boot flags arch=i386 and nspci=0x2000).

Although the ALC888 codec is indeed recognized, I CANNOT confirm its
proper operation as my powered speakers have failed.

Bottom line is a Shuttle SH55 is probably a "best value".

Everything is working, but I cannot confirm the audio as my speakers have
failed.

[LF]

Jeff,

My $0.02.  It's probably time to upgrade, depending on what they use the G4 Mac Mini for. If they are just checking AOL email, they will be okay with a G4. If they edit digital photos with iPhoto, they are way overdue for an upgrade. You won't get much of a speed bump for the marginally faster HD. Are they asking for an upgrade, or is this your idea?  In any case, it's always fun to get a new-to-me Mac. 

With all the new Macs putting smiles of faces today, CL should soon be loaded with reasonable priced used Macs. A nice Core2Duo iMac might be a better deal than a Mac Mini.  Here's a good price guide for used Macs: <http://www.mac2sell.net/>.   

I see you're not asking about Hackintosh. As a tech support person for family, I say you will be better off with the simplicity of a real Mac.

Larry

[Jeff Hester]

Hi Larry,

Thanks for your feedback.  They've not asked for a new Mac or an upgrade.  I just knew it was so slow when I was over there.  They only have about 7 GB remaining on their drive and it's only got 512 MB.  The only thing they use it for is email and surfing the web.  They don't do any photo editing or video.

I can upgrade their Mac for $100 but was wondering if it was worth putting the money into it.

I agree with you regarding a Hack.  I put enough support into them for various things.  While I would go the route of a Hack I'm not sure that would be the best solution for them.  I might just look for a previous generation Mac Mini and go with that.  Thanks for the link.  I'll check it out.

 -- Jeff

[LF]

Probably cleaning out extraneous files, and running the disc utility to repair permissions would do wonders. Then, fully populating RAM.  Depending, a $125 monitor  could be the best upgrade.

Best,

Larry

[faithie999]

peter--i reread the specs on the SH55J2. i see that it has an S/PDIF
connector on the rear panel. do you have any idea if OS X supports
that? if i were to get one of these and i'm not able to get audio
working on HDMI, then i would want to use the S/PDIF output.

thanks

On Dec 25, 1:18 am, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote:
> >> I thought last year you kind of panned the SH55J2.  Have you changed
> >> your mind about it?
>
> I was having problems with what turned out to be my very first AMI BIOS
> machine, the Shuttle SH55.
>
> Once I understood the issues, and eventually published the AMI BIOS DSDT
> Hacking Guide, those problems had all been resolved.
>
> I went on to buy a second Shuttle SH55 and then a Shuttle SH67.
>
> In between those two were two ASRock AMI BIOS P55 mobos and one ASRock AMI
> BIOS P55 Pro mobo.
>
> So, chalk it up to a steep learning curve on AMI BIOS DSDTs, since
> completely resolved.
>
> My Shuttle SH67 was installed with Server Lion using Kakewalk 4 and it
> worked the very first time.
>
> My subsequent Lion and Server Lion installs have used UniBeast.
>
> I no longer have anything against AMI BIOSes. In fact, they (AMI) have a
> lot more on the ball than Award does, with specific respect to MacOS X
> compatibility.
>
> Specifically, there are no special hacks to the DSDT which are required to
> avoid CMOS resets and various kinds of kernel panics, unlike Award BIOS
> DSDTs which require many such hacks for use beyond Leopard.
>
> Here ...
>

> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shuttle-SH55J2-Socket-1156-Barebone-/37052854...

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> peter--i reread the specs on the SH55J2. i see that it has an S/PDIF
> connector on the rear panel. do you have any idea if OS X supports
> that? if i were to get one of these and i'm not able to get audio
> working on HDMI, then i would want to use the S/PDIF output.

No clue.

I use 2.0 output as a gross check on the results, and then play the DVDs
back on a set top box with a pair of Altec-Lansing A7-500 "Voice of the
Theater" speakers.

Incidentally, some mobos, not necessarily Shuttles, have digital input as
an accessory ... a header is provided so that the accessory optical input
may be installed.

[pete...@cruzio.com]

>> peter--i reread the specs on the SH55J2. i see that it has an S/PDIF
>> connector on the rear panel. do you have any idea if OS X supports
>> that? if i were to get one of these and i'm not able to get audio
>> working on HDMI, then i would want to use the S/PDIF output.

Here ...

http://uk.shuttle.com/news/productsDownload?productId=1409

... is the BIOS update page for the SH55.

I discovered that mine was at 106 and that there was a 107 available.

Installation of 107 fixed some USB problems. It was SUPPOSED to fix a
"hang after a CMOS reset" problem, but I guess they threw in some other
fixes, too.

I used the bootable USB flash drive method of updating.

This is where you make a flash drive ... 1.0 GB in my case ... bootable
and then using an application which also installs DOS (actually, it is DOS
from Win95, I think) on the flash drive.

Thereafter, all you have to do is download the BIOS updates for the
various mobos which you have and then boot the flash drive and "cd" into
the directory which has the flasher application, the BAT file which
invokes it and the image of the BIOS ROM.

I think I used a Windows 7 application to do the formatting of the flash
drive but it was NOT the HP application ... that one will only format an
HP-branded flash drive.

Anyway, I now far prefer the new Linux method of updating a BIOS ... you
download an ISO which includes ISO Linux and the application, burn it to a
CD and that then becomes a BIOS updater which is specific to that one
product.

Shuttle hasn't gotten that far, yet, it seems.

[Kris Tilford]

On Dec 26, 2011, at 8:53 PM, pete...@cruzio.com wrote:

> Installation of 107 fixed some USB problems. It was SUPPOSED to fix a
> "hang after a CMOS reset" problem, but I guess they threw in some
> other
> fixes, too.

You re-patch the new DSDT each BIOS update, or do you just use the old
DSDT for a while?

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> You re-patch the new DSDT each BIOS update, or do you just use the old
> DSDT for a while?

No.

The way I do DSDT hacks I don't need to re-hack with each new BIOS update.

This is not necessarily true of all, however.

For example, the Supermicro has a different DSDT for each RAM size.

In the case of the Shuttle SH55, I updated the DSDT to correct for the
EHC1/UHC1 error earlier this morning and I updated the BIOS this evening
and used the same DSDT.

[Kris Tilford]

I suspected you weren't using matched DSDTs. I've always thought the
DSDT had to match the BIOS version exactly, and that mismatched BIOS &
DSDT was a recipe for problems at the lowest levels.

[pete...@cruzio.com]

>> In the case of the Shuttle SH55, I updated the DSDT to correct for the
>> EHC1/UHC1 error earlier this morning and I updated the BIOS this
>> evening
>> and used the same DSDT.
>
> I suspected you weren't using matched DSDTs. I've always thought the
> DSDT had to match the BIOS version exactly, and that mismatched BIOS &
> DSDT was a recipe for problems at the lowest levels.

I usually DO, but I didn't in this case.

The problem with the USB port not working with the WiFi dongle was exactly
as I stated: the AAPL stuff was added to the EHC2 device but, by mistake,
was not to the EHC1 device, and instead was added to one of the UHCx
devices. In a more modern DSDT for MacOS X, you want the AAPL stuff in the
one or two EHCx devices (there will be one or two, and that's it), but not
in the UHCx devices (there could be three to seven of these). "Prior art"
was to put AAPL stuff in the EHCx AND the UHCx devices.

Once the AAPL stuff was moved from the UHCx device to the EHC1 device, the
WiFi dongle, which is a USB 2.0 device, started working.

The DSDT is a procedural-like language which maps the physical devices to
logical device names which the OS can find.

Updating the BIOS does not change the physical devices.

For my own piece of mind, I will dump the DSDT for the 107 level and then
do a compare.

I'd bet I won't find any differences in the physical devices between the two.

Remember: the reason for the BIOS change (106 to 107) was to correct an
error where the machine would hang when the CMOS was reset.

This has nothing to do with the DSDT.

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> For my own piece of mind, I will dump the DSDT for the 107 level and then
> do a compare.
>
> I'd bet I won't find any differences in the physical devices between the
> two.
>
> Remember: the reason for the BIOS change (106 to 107) was to correct an
> error where the machine would hang when the CMOS was reset.

The 107 DSDT has been compared to the 106 DSDT and they are IDENTICAL.

Just as I asserted, the 107 change was to the BIOS, for the CMOS reset
hang issue, and that had NOTHING to do with the DSDT.

[pete...@cruzio.com]

> The 107 DSDT has been compared to the 106 DSDT and they are IDENTICAL.

Not withstanding the above, I redid the SH55 DSDT using the 107 dump as
the basis.

The result, as expected, was identical to the 106.

The 107-based DSDT has been tested and is confirmed.

[PH]

Some more (final ?) comments about the Shuttle SH55 and a few on the
Shuttle SH67 ...

I HAD sound working on mine, using ALC8xxHDA and AppleHDA roll-back,
and also Silverlight (for Netflix Watch Instantly). That WAS working.

After an update which changed everything (thanks most probably to
tonymacx86's fiddling and farting around with the boot loader) sound
would no longer work.

The DSDT is correct and About This Mac... properly shows the ALC888
sound device, but System Preferences... will no longer show a sound
device as being present ... typically a kext issue.

IORegistryExplorer correctly shows the ALC888 being there as the HDEF
device.

Finally, I had not previously tested the combo card reader (SD, SDHC,
etcetera) which is actually connected internally as a USB device.

Well, I think I tested it and it didn't work.

However, in retesting it today ... AFTER I had corrected the USB
system in the DSDT ... and the card reader works with MacOS X

So ... all the ports, including the card reader, are working as USB
2.0 (or USB 1.1, if the device is 1.1).

I removed the "import" Firewire card (which was working) and installed
an "import" Mini PCI adapter and Broadcom 4318 802.11b/g WiFi card
(Dell branded, but really a Broadcom 4318 and supported natively by
MacOS X), and that is working, too.

I tested the SH55 with 4 x 2 GB = 8 GB of 1333 DDR3 and that worked. I
believe I also tested 2 x 4 GB = 8 GB of 1333 DDR3 and that worked,
too.

Basically, the SH55 comes out as a pretty darn good candidate for a
Hack for 10.6 or 10.7, although I have not tested it on 10.7 as yet.

Should Shuttle_Store have another blow-out of these, I would recommend
one to those who can be satisfied with an LGA 1156 Hack.

I also have a Shuttle SH67, which is an LGA 1155, and it is pretty
good, too, although it has the very same sound issues on account of
Chimera, I believe.

The SH67 has the advantage of an on-mobo mini-PCI-e slot for an
internal WiFi card, and my SH67 has a Broadcom 4322 WiFi card for
instant AirDrop compatibility without any hacks to MacOS X. Mine also
has two antennas, although I believe only one is really required.

Anyway, the Broadcom 4322 has 802.1a/b/g/n compatibility, and AirDrop
compatibility, although you probably will not get 802.11n data rates
out of it if your router is running WPA. However, if your router is
running a non-protected channel, you will most likely get 802.11n data
rates.

The DSDTs for the SH55 and the SH67 are good and are available upon
request.