whoo hoo! is that really it there? 15c on app store?

[Derek]

just want to confirm...i don't own a jailbroken ipT or iphone, so i
want confirm before plunking down $20. but if it's the real deal, i
want to support!

derek

[Thomas Fors]

Hi Derek,

Yes, the 15c just appeared in the app store. It's named SCI-15C.

I don't know why they didn't all appear at the same time, but the
others will be:

FIN-12C
PRG-16C
SCI-11C

Thank you to everyone for being so patient. Please feel free to
provide feedback and suggestions on the new "official" versions here
in this news group.

--Tom

[DavidR]

Hmm. Another bizarre AppStore stunt? It's 10:30pm Eastern US time, and
SCI-15C is nowhere to be seen in either iTunes or on the iPhone for
me.

Dave

On Sep 29, 9:09 pm, Thomas Fors <t...@fors.net> wrote:
> Hi Derek,
>
> Yes, the 15c just appeared in the app store. It's named SCI-15C.
>
> I don't know why they didn't all appear at the same time, but the  
> others will be:
>
> FIN-12C
> PRG-16C
> SCI-11C
>
> Thank you to everyone for being so patient. Please feel free to  
> provide feedback and suggestions on the new "official" versions here  
> in this news group.
>
> --Tom
>

[Thomas Fors]

Hi Dave,

I suspect there is some kind of caching going on. For me, it appeared
in iTunes several hours before appearing in the app store on the iPhone.

--Tom

[DotComCTO]

Hi Tom,

I've been waiting for these to make their way to the App Store. Glad
to see they're finally making their way out. Two quick questions
before I plunk down the money:

1. Can anyone comment on the responsiveness of the virtual keys? Is it
in line with the i41CX app (key quick and accurate with nice key
clicks) or more like the RLM 12C app (still not very responsive and
comes with an unpleasant key click)?

2. Based on your earlier post, it looks like all your HP-10 apps are
coming to the App Store. Are they all going to be priced at $19.99? I
have times when I prefer one calculator over another (e.g., 12C vs 15C
vs 16C). At $20 each, it becomes a pricey proposition to buy multiple
pieces of software.

Thanks again!
--DotComCTO

On Sep 29, 10:44 pm, Thomas Fors <t...@fors.net> wrote:
> Hi Dave,
>
> I suspect there is some kind of caching going on. For me, it appeared  
> in iTunes several hours before appearing in the app store on the iPhone.
>
> --Tom
>

[Thomas Fors]

Hello DotComCTO,

Thank you for your patience!

1. I believe the keys are very responsive. I've downloaded some of
the "competitor" HP-like calculators to my iPhone (only the free ones
though) and I believe the keys more responsive than any of those I've
tried. There have been a few very kind reviews posted so far about
the SCI-15C where at least two of the reviewers commented on the key
responsiveness. Regarding the key click, I guess pleasantness is a
somewhat personal decision, but I do use the same key click sound that
the built-in calculator uses.

2. SCI-15C, FIN-12C, and PRG-16C are $19.99. SCI-11C is $14.99.
There's not a lot I can do personally about the price since I'm not
the only party involved in setting it, but I do thank you for your
feedback on it. I'll definitely make a note of it if the issue of a
price adjustment does come up.

Thanks again, and if you have any further questions before purchasing,
please feel free to ask them here.

--Tom

[DotComCTO]

Tom,

Thanks a lot for the quick turnaround on the reply. That means a lot
to me as a consumer/user! I never went down the jailbreak route on my
iPhone, so I never had the chance to try your projects out. They look
great. I'm sure to buy at least one of the virtual calculators. Have
you given any thought to a demo/limited version as a "lite" version
for users to try out?

I'm OK on the price point. Would $9.99 be better? Sure, but then
there'd be people complaining that it should only cost $4.99 - or even
free because it used to be that way before the App Store came around.
You can't satisfy everyone. The reviewers are correct in pointing out
that buying one from eBay would cost a fortune, and comparable
products on the Windows Mobile platform range in price from $15 - $25.
So - $19.99 is a relative bargain if one of these calculators fits a
particular need.

Thanks again for your help!

--DotComCTO

On Sep 30, 2:09 pm, "Thomas Fors" <t...@fors.net> wrote:
> Hello DotComCTO,
>
> Thank you for your patience!
>
> 1. I believe the keys are very responsive.  I've downloaded some of
> the "competitor" HP-like calculators to my iPhone (only the free ones
> though) and I believe the keys more responsive than any of those I've
> tried.  There have been a few very kind reviews posted so far about
> the SCI-15C where at least two of the reviewers commented on the key
> responsiveness.  Regarding the key click, I guess pleasantness is a
> somewhat personal decision, but I do use the same key click sound that
> the built-in calculator uses.
>
> 2. SCI-15C, FIN-12C, and PRG-16C are $19.99.  SCI-11C is $14.99.
> There's not a lot I can do personally about the price since I'm not
> the only party involved in setting it, but I do thank you for your
> feedback on it.  I'll definitely make a note of it if the issue of a
> price adjustment does come up.
>
> Thanks again, and if you have any further questions before purchasing,
> please feel free to ask them here.
>
> --Tom
>

[Thomas Fors]

Hi DotComCTO,

I do plan to release a free calculator that provides the basic
functionality that the existing iPhone calculator does in scientific
mode, but it would be based on RPN entry and look and feel like these
pay models.

I don't have a timeframe for it's release, however, since it's not
finished yet -- it requires a major rewrite so it doesn't rely on any
code that comes with any license restrictions and, naturally, will
require lots of testing before release.

I'll probably post something here looking for beta testers once it's
ready, so if it's something you're interested in, stay tuned...

--Tom

[DotComCTO]

FYI - I just happened to check and you PRG-16c and FIN-12c are now
available on the App Store.

Congrats and best of luck!

--DotComCTO

On Sep 30, 3:36 pm, "Thomas Fors" <t...@fors.net> wrote:
> Hi DotComCTO,
>
> I do plan to release a free calculator that provides the basic
> functionality that the existing iPhone calculator does in scientific
> mode, but it would be based on RPN entry and look and feel like these
> pay models.
>
> I don't have a timeframe for it's release, however, since it's not
> finished yet -- it requires a major rewrite so it doesn't rely on any
> code that comes with any license restrictions and, naturally, will
> require lots of testing before release.
>
> I'll probably post something here looking for beta testers once it's
> ready, so if it's something you're interested in, stay tuned...
>
> --Tom
>

[Derek]

i bought the 15c app yesterday just before the 11c showed up. in
hindsight, i probably could have saved $5 and bought the 11c instead,
but no worries. i a am very happy with this sci-15c app. it works as
expected and even though the keys are smaller than the real thing, i
have found it haven't had any problems with mishit keys, etc.

nice job Tom!

my only thoughts on improving it would perhaps the option to have a
slightly zoomed in mode that might not looks as pretty but could give
15% bigger keys. again, i haven't had any problems yet in my first
usages, but given the size the iphone/ipod touch screen, it might be
good to forgo a little elegance and "exact facia" replication of the
Voyager series in the interest of larger keys and slightly better
functionality. but as is, it's worth the $19.99 i paid. :)

Derek

(who for the record owns two 15C and uses them regularly, but is glad
to have a 15C emulator on his ipod touch when he is not at home or in
the office, where these two 15C's reside. ;) )

On Sep 29, 6:09 pm, Thomas Fors <t...@fors.net> wrote:
> Hi Derek,
>
> Yes, the 15c just appeared in the app store. It's named SCI-15C.
>
> I don't know why they didn't all appear at the same time, but the  
> others will be:
>
> FIN-12C
> PRG-16C
> SCI-11C
>
> Thank you to everyone for being so patient. Please feel free to  
> provide feedback and suggestions on the new "official" versions here  
> in this news group.
>
> --Tom
>

[Thomas Fors]

Hi Derek,

I'm glad you're finding the calculator useful. The 15c is my preferred
model for my day job and it's the one that motivated me to create them
in the first place.

I probably should mention that the "hit" area for the buttons is
larger than the graphics would indicate. It's designed to meet Apple's
UI requirements document on minimum button size and I don't recall off
hand but I think I even exceed that requirement.

If you do find that you're having entry problems though, I'd really
like to hear about it.

Thanks for the feedback!

Tom

[Les]

Thomas, I just purchased the 15C app and it is a thing of beauty. I
have a near mint 15c that I paid too much for that I am afraid to look
at funny. Now, I feel as though I can really get to know the
calculator now without fear of dust, scratches, etc

I think the casual person will find the price a little high but for
devotees who want to support this work and who understand how you and
Eric have worked so hard to give us a little bit of history it is a
bargain. I have noticed in some of the crits for other HP simulators/
emulators the downers come from the occasional chowderhead who has no
clue about the significance of these machines and why we covet
emulation of them.

With this, i41cxp, RLM's offerings, and, in time, Thomas Okken's port
of Free42, iPhone users who are HP calc buffs will have a suite of
options available for amusement (like me) and serious use.

Les

[t.h.o.]

Hello Tom,
I was one of those "very kind reviews" at the app store.
Repeating it here: Thanks for the 15C app! It feels like an old
friend has returned.

I do have a request and a possible feature upgrade request:

a) There's just something about the keyboard and display layout where
it's just a tad smaller than other similar apps. I thought it was me
at first, but I put screen captures side by side with RLMs (12C)
display with yours, and indeed the keys, the overall layout, and the
display of your app are slightly smaller.
Would it be possible to increase the keyboard and display size in the
future?
Remember, your target audience of this app, may be 15C nostalgic
bifocal crowd (like me). : )

b) Like I said in my review, the 15C works so great, that at one point
I was inclined to flip the iPhone to reference the calculator's notes
on the back <LOL>. I thought about this afterwards, and such:
Can you have it so that with slight rotation or twist of the phone
while on this app, the display would change to this: http://www.hpmuseum.org/15cbk.jpg
...and a similar follow up twist, would put the calculator display
back ...that would be useful, and cool.

Thanks again, and best wishes.

[Thomas Fors]

Hi t.h.o.,

Thank you very much for the kind review.

There's been a number of requests for larger buttons, so you're not
alone! I should point out that the actual active button area is
larger than the graphic keyboard shows. So, as long as your finger is
close to the key, it should register properly.

I will, however, take a look at updating the graphics in a future
version to make things larger since this is a popular request. The
reference info on the back has also been a popular request. I'll also
look into implementing that as well.

Thanks again
--Tom

[Thomas Fors]

Hi Les,

Thanks for the comments! I agree that there are some out there that
just don't understand the power and utility of these calculators. I
had someone write a review in the App Store wanting more functionality
added to the 15c! I'm not sure what they're looking for, but I know
there's a generation of engineers and scientists that don't feel
comfortable if their calculator can't graph equations.

When I started this project, it was because I needed a square root key
while in a meeting, and at the time, the built-in iPhone calculator
was four functions only. I thought about what I really needed in a
calculator and realized that I *never* use the graphing feature of my
calculator anymore and I haven't used it since school.

So I started out just trying to build a more useful calculator and
ended up implementing what (to me at least) is the gold standard in
calculators (the 15c). It's been a great adventure and I've enjoyed
every minute of it.

Thanks again for the feedback. It makes me happy to see how much
people appreciate and enjoy them.

--Tom

[Les]

Hi Tom,

A couple of small bug reports so far:

1. The ON key toggles on/off like the real thing. Unfortunately, when
the calc is in the OFF state the display doesn't clear. It stays on,
but the keyboard won't accept input. Confusing! First time it happened
I thought the app had hung :(
2. When running a program, SOLVE, or INTEGRATE, the "r" in "running"
is offline. Your code seems to light up the wrong segments of the
graphic. Apart from that, the display is PERFECT, a miniaturized
version of the original.

I, like, t.h.o, would love to have the ability to see the crib sheet
from the underside of the real calculator. Anthony Lagana gives users
this functionality in i41cxp by tapping on mid display to see the
alpha template. You could implement this by having users tapping on
the SCI-15C graphic, analagous to what is done with RLM's 12c Classic
to access the listing of program memory and register contents.

If there is any way in the future for the user to adjust the speed,
that would be cool too. On of the advantages of, say, V41 is the
option to toggle Turbo mode if you really want to get to the point.
And Free42, being a software simulator and not a ROM based emulator,
has always run at the CPU speed of the host computer.

Les

Les

[Les]

Derek, if you are first and foremost a 15C fan, I am sure you will
have no trouble in time justifying the extra 5 bucks. My real 11C sees
more use, but this is only because it is a beater and my 15C is a near
mint collectible I paid too much for and am afraid to scratch :)
Collectors tell me I should just bite the bullet and get a
cosmetically flawed 15C cheaply for daily use, but this emulator is
pretty well just what I need and desire right now. The only
disadvantage of the real 15C versus 11C is a slightly slower CPU--
indeed, fans often forget that it really was the slowest HP made in
those days. But given its awesome powers in a small package for what
was then a cheaper price (compared to the more costly HP41), I guess
folks decided it was worth the wait :)

Les

[Derek]

Les, et al.

you've inspired me...time for me to share my story.

i have had my original HP 15C since 1984 when i got it freshman year
in High school...this calculator has served me through college, grad
school and a subsequent career in science. while i use matlab for
most of my research and heavy duty calcs these days, i still pull out
my 15C a couple of times a week for quick calculations or designing/
checking problems for problem sets for the classes i teach. sadly,
i've abused it over the years (lost the slipcase early on and let it
bang around with pens and pencils in a backpack/bag for many
years...although i very recently bought it a replacement slip case)

i also own a 42S which my parents bought for me in when i was in
college. this calculator (also worth lots on Ebay) never saw much
use...the key action was very good but i was so used to where the keys
were on my 15C by then (and also notably E^x being the default as
opposed to LN), i stuck with my 15C. (i could sell the 42S which is
mint and i have all the manuals, etc...but i keep it for sentimental
reasons since it was after all a kind gift :) )

fast forward to 2008 where my beat up, but still going 15C has keys
which are getting a little loose (as evidenced by a vintage but rarely
used 12C i picked up on ebay for $34 (!)). at about the same time as
the 12C purchase, a few months ago, a friend at church let me know she
has a 15C lying around unused. to make a long story short, i gave her
$190 for it (a few scratches and dings) and so now i have a 15C for
both home and work. (and if my original one dies, i won't be
completely devastated and without a very useful and beloved tool)

the 15C emulator is great; but that being said, i still love the real
thing. i think the HP 15C appeals to me for a variety of reasons:

- nostalgia of my life as a math/science/engineer geek
- nostalgia in things built to last
- my entire career and life as a student has used this "key pattern"/
layout so i am very comfortable with it.
- the tactile feedback of the Voyager series is 2nd to none.

of course, the emulator can't satisfy the fourth criteria, but i'm
very pleased with Thomas' app. i don't carry either of my 15C's
around with me for worry of losing either one of them and having the
app on my ipod touch is a God send.

the 11C emulator would have been fine because i only use my 15C's
these days for basic scientific calculator functions which are
identical for the 11c and 15c. but hopefully a few extra of the $5
went into Thomas' pocket. :)

cheers, Derek

ps Les -- i think if you are patient, you can find a 15C for a "semi-
reasonable" price on ebay. but depending on what you use it for, i'm
not sure the speed diff between the 11c and 15c is all that great.
(never having used an 11c for any extended time, myself)

[Derek]

thanks Thomas. while not needed (still haven't found any keystroke
errors in my usage this first week), i would welcome the slightly
larger buttons and more use of the screen for function. :)

derek

[Les]

Tom I entered a bug report regarding the "running" graphic at
code.google.com. I see the blanking display thing has already been
identified.