Texas Spends More On Inmates Than Students
Name withheld by request
Texas Spends More On Inmates Than Students
State Ranks 33rd Nationwide For School Spending
POSTED: 1:22 p.m. EDT April 30, 2004
UPDATED: 2:57 p.m. EDT April 30, 2004
DALLAS -- As state lawmakers in Austin, Texas, haggle over funding for
school children, a KXAS-TV in Dallas investigation shows Texas spends
far more on convicts than students, and far less than most other
states.
School budgets
The station's investigation didn't surprise Stanley Kendall, who has
been teaching for more 20 years, mostly in Texas but also in his
native Indiana.
Comparing the two states, Kendall said it's obvious to him that Texas
spends less on education.
"They're cutting teachers, they're making our class sizes bigger,
they're wanting us to cut out programs to help kids at risk," he said.
According to the National Education Association report, Texas ranks
33rd in the nation for spending per pupil. Indiana ranks 18th.
KXAS-TV found out that Texas spends far more on the average prison
inmate than the average school child.
The state spends $16,063 per inmate and $7,088 per student, according
to the station.
According to teachers like Aimee Bolender, president of the Alliance
AFT teacher's union, that spending practice is backwards.
"Students would have a better education and the chance of them
becoming prison inmates would be much less," Bolender said.
State Sen. Florence Shapiro, R-Plano, maintains that the prison
comparison is unfair, but agrees that schools need more money.
"I know they would not like to see one of those prisoners who's killed
somebody come out of prison because we didn't have the $16,000 to keep
them behind bars," Shapiro said.
According to lawmakers, they're looking for funding during the current
special session.
"We shouldn't just talk the talk, we should be walking the walk,"
state Sen. Royce West, D-Dallas, said. "We've got to fix public
education. We don't need to put a bandage on it, we need to fix it."
The talk at the Texas state capitol includes reducing local property
taxes, spreading franchise taxes to businesses that don't pay now and
broadening the sales tax.
Teachers remain skeptical. "I expect it to be a shell game. I expect
money to be moved, but not actually enhanced," Bolender said.
Shapiro favors the Texas governor's plan for teacher pay performance
incentives based on students' tests.
However, Bolender and others oppose that idea.
"That's ridiculous. Teachers do not support that. It's not viewed as
fair," she said.
"We teachers, if they would talk to us, we could give them some
ideas," Kendall said.
Meanwhile, the District of Columbia spends the most per pupil per
year, around $13, 000, followed by Connecticut and New York.
Distributed by Internet Broadcasting Systems, Inc.
http://www.nbc30.com/education/3255041/detail.html
________________________________________________________________
It Takes a Village Idiot
George Kerby
by request" <anon...@nyx10.nyx.net> wrote:
>
> Texas Spends More On Inmates Than Students
>
<snip>
THIS is NEWS to YOU????
Where have you been?!?
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Steven M (remove cola to reply)
request) wrote:
>
>Texas Spends More On Inmates Than Students
>
>State Ranks 33rd Nationwide For School Spending
>
> POSTED: 1:22 p.m. EDT April 30, 2004
> UPDATED: 2:57 p.m. EDT April 30, 2004
> According to the National Education Association report, Texas ranks
> 33rd in the nation for spending per pupil. Indiana ranks 18th.
>
> KXAS-TV found out that Texas spends far more on the average prison
> inmate than the average school child.
>
> The state spends $16,063 per inmate and $7,088 per student, according
> to the station.
Does that include the money that is raised and spent by local school
districts?
--
Steve M - uns...@houston.rrdirt.com (remove dirt for reply)
I allow my cats to express themselves, never interfere with their
romances, and raise them with dogs to broaden their outlook.
-- Murray Robinson
Mitchell Holman
news:2ru790d7id719dg53...@4ax.com:
> On 1 May 2004 12:32:50 -0600, anon...@nyx10.nyx.net (Name withheld by
> request) wrote:
>
>>
>>Texas Spends More On Inmates Than Students
>>
>>State Ranks 33rd Nationwide For School Spending
>>
>> POSTED: 1:22 p.m. EDT April 30, 2004
>> UPDATED: 2:57 p.m. EDT April 30, 2004
>> According to the National Education Association report, Texas ranks
>> 33rd in the nation for spending per pupil. Indiana ranks 18th.
>>
>> KXAS-TV found out that Texas spends far more on the average prison
>> inmate than the average school child.
>>
>> The state spends $16,063 per inmate and $7,088 per student, according
>> to the station.
>
> Does that include the money that is raised and spent by local school
> districts?
It doesn't include the money spent in local topless
bars - the ones conservatives want to shut down AND still
finance public education.
PS: Does Perry's "sin tax" apply to LaBare clubs?
Bill Walker
"Mitchell Holman" <ta2eene...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94DCA776...@204.127.199.17...
Are you kidding.. Damn.. Mitchell .. you keep up with Texas politics, don't
you ?? LOL
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Apes-Ma
> Meanwhile, the District of Columbia spends the most per pupil per
> year, around $13,000
Wow. I'll bet their crime rate is about zero.
Neal Atkins
wrote:
>> Meanwhile, the District of Columbia spends the most per pupil per
>> year, around $13,000
>
>Wow. I'll bet their crime rate is about zero.
Not to mention that their dropout rate should be zero and their SAT
scores should be the highest in the nation.
Grumpy au Contraire
<chuckle>
But it is rather disturbing that we spend more on housing criminals than
we do for education. Simplification of their mode of operation would go
a long way to reduce costs and provide results...
--
JT
Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4
Grumpy au Contraire
Sorta puts a damper on the premise that pouring money on the problem
cures all...
Neal Atkins
<Gru...@doofis.FAKEcom> wrote:
>
>But it is rather disturbing that we spend more on housing criminals than
>we do for education.
Your initial premise is wrong. Texas DOES NOT "spend more on housing
criminals that we do for education". By about 5-1.
There are several thousand felons in prisons around the state. There
are millions of kids. The state doesn't have to feed, clothe, house,
provide medical needs and keep track of the millions of kids 24/7/365
like they do prisoners.
Although I'm sure the educrat union and some parents would love for
the state to take that responsiblity.
Rod
The argument should be that we spend way too much on inmates. Though, it is
true that we don't actually feed and house the children.
Grumpy au Contraire
Neal Atkins wrote:
>
> On Sun, 02 May 2004 02:50:02 GMT, Grumpy au Contraire
> <Gru...@doofis.FAKEcom> wrote:
>
> >
> >But it is rather disturbing that we spend more on housing criminals than
> >we do for education.
>
> Your initial premise is wrong. Texas DOES NOT "spend more on housing
> criminals that we do for education". By about 5-1.
>
Now now, you know I meant per person (student vs. inmate). If we're
spending $12K plus for housing inmates, something is wrong with the
process as is the case for virtually every government entity. And I'm
speaking of the state's government contribution to both, not any local spending.
> There are several thousand felons in prisons around the state. There
> are millions of kids. The state doesn't have to feed, clothe, house,
> provide medical needs and keep track of the millions of kids 24/7/365
> like they do prisoners.
>
> Although I'm sure the educrat union and some parents would love for
> the state to take that responsiblity.
The state should pay for the basic cost of education including capital
assets. Education should be financed primarily through an income tax
rather than through property taxes.
cory
>
> Neal Atkins wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 May 2004 02:50:02 GMT, Grumpy au Contraire
>><Gru...@doofis.FAKEcom> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>But it is rather disturbing that we spend more on housing criminals than
>>>we do for education.
>>
>>Your initial premise is wrong. Texas DOES NOT "spend more on housing
>>criminals that we do for education". By about 5-1.
>>
>
>
>
> Now now, you know I meant per person (student vs. inmate). If we're
> spending $12K plus for housing inmates, something is wrong with the
> process as is the case for virtually every government entity. And I'm
> speaking of the state's government contribution to both, not any local spending.
It's called the "prison-industrial complex", and is well understood.
Mark T. Evert
"Apes-Ma" <shiny...@vliet.com> wrote in message
news:PaWdnZwZSLq...@texas.net...
Actually....while most people think that Texas has the greatest number of
prison inmates per capita.......in fact that distinction is actually held by
Washington, DC. Texas is 3rd
http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/prisons/rankings2.html
>
Neal Atkins
<mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>> > Meanwhile, the District of Columbia spends the most per pupil per
>> > year, around $13,000
>>
>> Wow. I'll bet their crime rate is about zero.
>
>Actually....while most people think that Texas has the greatest number of
>prison inmates per capita.......in fact that distinction is actually held by
>Washington, DC. Texas is 3rd
NO! Next you'll tell us the DC schools have the highest drop out
rate, the lowest graduation rate, the lowest SAT scores and the MOST
in-school crime in the nation.
But they have among the highest paid teachers and administrators.
Bill Walker
"Mark T. Evert" <mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:IVilc.52646$Dn1....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
> "Apes-Ma" <shiny...@vliet.com> wrote in message
> news:PaWdnZwZSLq...@texas.net...
> > Name withheld by request wrote:
> >
> > > Meanwhile, the District of Columbia spends the most per pupil per
> > > year, around $13,000
> >
> > Wow. I'll bet their crime rate is about zero.
>
> Actually....while most people think that Texas has the greatest number of
> prison inmates per capita.......in fact that distinction is actually held
by
> Washington, DC. Texas is 3rd
WHAT ?? You must be a troll, or something.. Don't you realize that comment
is going to thoroughly piss a bunch of Texans off ? Texans never settle for
third place in anything... LOL
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx..
>
> http://www.motherjones.com/news/special_reports/prisons/rankings2.html
> >
>
>
Brooks Gregory
<Steven C> wrote in message
news:5vdd909grhe13bk68...@4ax.com...
> >
>
> more spending on government schools argue their case by comparing what
> one state spends with what other states spend, instead of evaluating
> what kind of value we are receiving for what we are already paying
> for.
>
> The fact that 49 other states spend more on education than Texas does
> not mean that 49 other states are not *overspending.* This
> relativistic argument is bogus, and tells us nothing. Private schools
> consistently have significantly less administrative cost per student,
> per school year than public schools, while outperforming them
> academically, even in areas where the socio-economic distribution is
> similar between the two.
>
> It's time to break up the government school - teacher's union complex,
> and open the system to competition.
>
> Steven C
>
> Georgetown, Tx
>
I tend to agree with you. But, there is the matter of private schools being
able to choose their students where public schools have to take the ones
that are not quite as bright.
With the current session going on about school finance, I have always said
to hell with it, we all benefit from a smarter workforce so we all should
pay. And, truly there is only one tax method that we all pay. A sales tax.
Unless of course you can find a business that would no pass that through to
the customer. But, you get this argument that the poor would pay a higher
percentage of their income than the rich. Well, I don't really buy that
because the rich guy is buying Caddys, while the poor guy is buying
Hyundais. But, even if it is true, maybe the poor guy might discover that
paying for and getting a better education just might be the ticket out of
poverty.
I have thought a lot about this issue for many years. Before I retired, I
lived in DC for 15 years and saw first hand that money does not equal
educational excellence. And, I used to tell the school board up there that I
could take half the money they spent on a student, find a 9 year old street
hanger (gang member), and show him the money and tell him that by the time
he reached 17 if he could pass the exit exams that "X" high school required
I would buy him a new Z-28 with money, I bet he would do it without ever
seeing a teacher. To me, the motivation of the student matters a lot more
than the motivation of the teacher.
Just stop and think how much money we waste on school buildings. Every
neighborhood now has to have it's own school. Well, if that's the way it has
to be, only those in that neighborhood should pay for it. It would not take
them long to discover that a couple of buses would be a lot easier on their
pocket books.
But this is a really tough issue to get under control and the current
Governor is such a political coward I think we will just wind up with and
even bigger mess.
--
If you don't vote, you must be happy with the
way things are, so stop your belly achin.
Brooks Gregory
www.campaignline.com
http://www.theaapc.org/
Bill Walker
<Steven C> wrote in message
news:5vdd909grhe13bk68...@4ax.com...
> >On 1 May 2004 12:32:50 -0600, anon...@nyx10.nyx.net (Name withheld by
request) wrote:
>
> >
> >
>
> more spending on government schools argue their case by comparing what
> one state spends with what other states spend, instead of evaluating
> what kind of value we are receiving for what we are already paying
> for.
>
> The fact that 49 other states spend more on education than Texas does
> not mean that 49 other states are not *overspending.* This
> relativistic argument is bogus, and tells us nothing. Private schools
> consistently have significantly less administrative cost per student,
> per school year than public schools, while outperforming them
> academically, even in areas where the socio-economic distribution is
> similar between the two.
>
> It's time to break up the government school - teacher's union complex,
> and open the system to competition.
Yeah buddy.. let's just privatize this whole deal and get it over with.. If
you believe the corporate schools will provide the education of your
children, then your bubble is about to break.. Bush's plan to privatize the
prisons, military and education system is already in place and working..
Some of the results won't be known for years.. Other results are in.. and we
enjoy the consequences of a corporatist, police state and an authoritarian
government.. Much to your dismay, I'm sure.. those results are not too
complimentary to your mindset.. nor the successes of George Bush.. On the
contrary.. the list of failures for this maniac, are more apparent every
week..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
> Steven C
>
> Georgetown, Tx
>
Mark T. Evert
"Brooks Gregory" <brooks...@sbctelco.com> wrote in message
news:Mizlc.14559857$Id.24...@news.easynews.com...
the big city politicians are also scared to death of school vouchers.
Houston is a great example of why.......People are once again flocking to
live in the heart of the city, but a look at the demographics show that
they are either the very young childless....or the very old empty
nesters...both groups who often vote Democratic.....not too much movement of
families with kids (Typically Republican) and the reason for that is that
they don't want to put their kids in urban school systems....but throw
vouchers out as an option that could all change. This is sad because a
lot of people want to live closer to where they work and encouraging them to
do so can solve a lot of transportation and environmental problems as well.
Robert M.
wrote:
> This
> relativistic argument is bogus, and tells us nothing. Private schools
> consistently have significantly less administrative cost per student,
> per school year than public schools, while outperforming them
> academically, even in areas where the socio-economic distribution is
> similar between the two.
You want to know your children are receiving a good education, you can't
have 87 different schools deciding what the curriculum should be.
And have you seen all the corruption cases in Houston Charter schools.
You just have to go to New Orleans where Private Schools rule and a
"Good" school is measured by the percentage of Caucasian students.
Jeffrey E. Salzberg
says...
> When you think about it, that's all that the
> state *needs* to know anyway. They don't need to know if homosexual
> sensitivity is being advocated,
...Until the hospitals start treating the victims of gay-bashing and the
already overworked criminal justice system starts arresting and
prosecuting the perpetrators.
> or if the kids are being taught
> environmentalism
...Until we're all coughing our lungs out and old people are boring
their disbelieving grandchildren with tales of how the sky was once blue
and the rain didn't dissolve skin on contact.
Robert M.
> >On Tue, 04 May 2004 09:50:12 GMT, "Robert M." <r...@msn.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <5vdd909grhe13bk68...@4ax.com>, Steven C <>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> This
> >> relativistic argument is bogus, and tells us nothing. Private schools
> >> consistently have significantly less administrative cost per student,
> >> per school year than public schools, while outperforming them
> >> academically, even in areas where the socio-economic distribution is
> >> similar between the two.
> >
> >You want to know your children are receiving a good education, you can't
> >have 87 different schools deciding what the curriculum should be.
>
> I think that you can, though, especially if there is a standardized
> metric;
But you'd have 87 different interpretations of that metric.
Robert M.
"Bill Walker" <bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> <Steven C> wrote in message
> news:5vdd909grhe13bk68...@4ax.com...
> > >On 1 May 2004 12:32:50 -0600, anon...@nyx10.nyx.net (Name withheld by
> request) wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >Texas Spends More On Inmates Than Students
> > >
> >
> > I'm always amused when people who advocate less consumer choice and
> > more spending on government schools argue their case by comparing what
> > one state spends with what other states spend, instead of evaluating
> > what kind of value we are receiving for what we are already paying
> > for.
> >
> > The fact that 49 other states spend more on education than Texas does
> > not mean that 49 other states are not *overspending.* This
> > relativistic argument is bogus, and tells us nothing. Private schools
> > consistently have significantly less administrative cost per student,
> > per school year than public schools, while outperforming them
> > academically, even in areas where the socio-economic distribution is
> > similar between the two.
> >
> > It's time to break up the government school - teacher's union complex,
> > and open the system to competition.
>
> Yeah buddy.. let's just privatize this whole deal and get it over with.. If
> you believe the corporate schools will provide the education of your
> children, then your bubble is about to break.. Bush's plan to privatize the
> prisons, military and education system is already in place and working..
Well we saw what privatized prisons did in baghdad this week.
cory
>
> Well we saw what privatized prisons did in baghdad this week.
Would you like to carry on a dialog about whether prisoners in Baghdad
more humiliating experiences than the prisoners in federal prisons?
Robert M.
cory <postm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Federal prisons haven't been privatized yet. Just wait till they are.
Are you familiar with the Country Club Federal Pen in gettysberg, PA ?
Robert M.
"Brooks Gregory" <brooks...@sbctelco.com> wrote:
>
> I tend to agree with you. But, there is the matter of private schools being
> able to choose their students where public schools have to take the ones
> that are not quite as bright.
And when the Government gives "vouchers", its never 100% of what it
costs per pupil for a school anyway, so the "poor" (economically)
students end up in inferior Private schools.
Mark T. Evert
"Robert M." <robe...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:robert167-2F4C1...@news3.west.earthlink.net...
They could stay in public schools too......I don't think most voucher
proponents want to do away with publicly funded schools. Rather I think we
feel that the prospect of real competition will ultimately improve education
opportunities for everyone. In fact there is substantial evidence that
even just the threat of vouchers has led to additional self-examination and
even improvement in some public schools.
Bill Walker
You can also be assured that this administration fully intends to privatize
and eliminate the public education system in the United States of America..
Some of the hard line right wingers in our congress and senate have
advocated privatizing our school system for years.. This administration is
the "real" opportunity to do just that.. Sad mistake.. If you don't know who
those politicians are, you better make it your business to find out before
you chunk your next ballot at them..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
>
Mark T. Evert
"Bill Walker" <bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:T0Vlc.87428$G_.6...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
It may not be such a bad thing.....but private colleges have generally done
very well with respect to public universities.....but the two have also
coexisted very nicely and compete with each other for the best students.
Arguably we have the best higher education system in the world.....don't see
why these concepts wouldn't yield results at the K-12 levels as well.
>
> Bill Walker
> Irving, Tx.
> >
> >
>
>
Robert M.
"Mark T. Evert" <mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> They could stay in public schools too......I don't think most voucher
> proponents want to do away with publicly funded schools.
Thats exactly what they want to do.
Robert M.
"Mark T. Evert" <mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> It may not be such a bad thing.....but private colleges have generally done
> very well with respect to public universities
Some have, many haven't. Baylor lets its basketball students kill each
other.
Adam Weiss
That's true. I would add that the families who do live downtown are
often either very wealthy or very poor. The wealthy don't send their
kids to local public schools. The poor are the only ones left there -
stuck in lousy schools downtown because they can't afford to pay for the
freedom to choose.
The latter is the essence of the difference between the two sides. The
anti-voucher crowd would have school choice only for the rich (as is
presently the case). The pro-voucher crowd supports school choice for
all Americans.
Adam Weiss
Vouchers would make all schools use a combination of public and private
funds. Schools would recieve voucher funds per student, and some would
charge a tuition above and beyond that. Schools could augment those
sources of income through fund-raisers and grants; some might even build
endowments for themselves.
What I would do if I were in control of a voucher system, however, is
create a wide range of grants available only to schools that peg their
tuitions at the amount of the vouchers. This would ensure that there
would be schools available for those who cannot afford to pay a tuition
above the amount of the vouchers. And if the grants were generous
enough, you might even find some schools lowering their tuitions to the
amount of the vouchers in order to make themselves eligible.
Ultimately I agree with you. Public schools in the US are mediocre at
best. Our universities (public and private) are the best in the world.
Schools don't compete with each other. Universities do.
Bill Walker
"Adam Weiss" <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote in message
news:409984F4...@blockspam.org...
In deference to all the posts you have made.. I chose this to respond to..
With all due respect.. You are a fucking idiot apologist and alibi'er for a
corrupt and idiotic corporatist government that will privatize your entire
society right out from under your imbicilic little moronic ass...
>
Adam Weiss
>
> In deference to all the posts you have made.. I chose this to respond to..
> With all due respect.. You are a fucking idiot apologist and alibi'er for a
> corrupt and idiotic corporatist government that will privatize your entire
> society right out from under your imbicilic little moronic ass...
>
>
>
You are incapable of intelligent debate, and therefor you leave behind a
profanity-laced attack on my character.
It speaks to your intellect; not mine.
Robert M.
Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
> Vouchers would make all schools use a combination of public and private
> funds. Schools would recieve voucher funds per student, and some would
> charge a tuition above and beyond that.
That in itself guarantees the failure of a voucher system. You are then
creating a two tier system of schools. The ones that accept the voucher
as full tuition, and those that don't. How is a parent from a "poor"
inner city school supposed to get the funds to pay the tuition thats on
top of the voucher??
Bill Walker
Not really saying all that much for the "intellect", "character" and
"intelligent debate" capabilities of a moron that has bought into the
obvious lies and deceptions that you have swallowed and try to defend.. If
that's the limit of your intellectual skills, then you just keep on
"debating" while George Bush and the rest of those corrupt sons a bitches
are "poised" to get a lot more people killed and keep your intellectual
debating ass under their authoritarian "poised" government they have planned
for you.. Shrub is "poised" .. You are "debating" Meantime.. take a look
around you.. Whole bunch of Americans are tired of both of your bullshit ..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
Adam Weiss
You erased and did not respond to the portion of my post which
acknowledges that and would create a system to counteract it.
Robert M.
Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
> You erased and did not respond to the portion of my post which
> acknowledges that and would create a system to counteract it.
Sorry but that flat won't work:
> What I would do if I were in control of a voucher system, however, is
> create a wide range of grants available only to schools that peg their
> tuitions at the amount of the vouchers.
You guarantee cost cutting and poor schools by that. Using uncertified
teachers on an "emergency" basis to save money, etc.
Robert M.
Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
> That's true. I would add that the families who do live downtown are
> often either very wealthy or very poor. The wealthy don't send their
> kids to local public schools. The poor are the only ones left there -
> stuck in lousy schools downtown because they can't afford to pay for the
> freedom to choose.
By what basis are they lousy schools? By the typical Houston redneck
method of measuring? All White = good school, all-black = lousy school ?
George Kerby
<aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
Typical behavior for BillyBob Irving. An intellectual paramecium. And I mean
no offense to the multitudes of single-cell organisms out there reading
this..
_______________________________________________________________________________
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George Kerby
"Bill Walker" <bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> "Adam Weiss" <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote in message
> news:40999F4F...@blockspam.org...
>> Bill Walker wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> In deference to all the posts you have made.. I chose this to respond
> to..
>>> With all due respect.. You are a fucking idiot apologist and alibi'er
> for a
>>> corrupt and idiotic corporatist government that will privatize your
> entire
>>> society right out from under your imbicilic little moronic ass...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You are incapable of intelligent debate, and therefor you leave behind a
>> profanity-laced attack on my character.
>>
>> It speaks to your intellect; not mine.
> Meantime.. take a look
> around you.. Whole bunch of Americans are tired of both of your bullshit ..
>
> Bill Walker
> Irving, Tx.
>>
>
Stats? Documentation?
Thought not.
Just more noise a usual...
BillyBob, take your medication and prune-up!
George Kerby
<aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
Selective vision. The great tool of lying assholes like Irving.
cory
There always has been, and always will be, stratification in education
-- and it's not just two tiers. That said, most proponents of voucher
systems would argue that even the lowest tier of private education could
perform better with the same funding than some of the public schools.
Private enterprise has proven time and again to be capable of better
financial performance than the government.
I'll give you an interested, though somewhat unrelated example. In the
state of North Carolina, liquor stores are all operated by the state
government. The products are all sold at retail price. The hours are not
very convenient, because it's a government operation - IIRC, they close
at 9PM on Saturday. The selection is not very good either; specialty
products such as high-end single-malt scotches are totally unavailable
in North Carolina. But the clincher is this: some stores have actually
managed to LOSE MONEY SELLING LIQUOR. This is government in action.
Brooks Gregory
"cory" <postm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PEqmc.5870$8G3....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
Does anyone know what is included in the "per student" figure when the state
tells us they spend "X" per student on education? Does that include plant
and equipment, books, sports programs and such?
Mark T. Evert
"Robert M." <R...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Rmm-7DBB0A.0...@news6.west.earthlink.net...
By the grade assigned by the state....exemplary, recognized, acceptable,
etc.
Mark T. Evert
>
> > In article <409984F4...@blockspam.org>,
> > Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Vouchers would make all schools use a combination of public and private
> >>funds. Schools would recieve voucher funds per student, and some would
> >>charge a tuition above and beyond that.
> >
> >
> > That in itself guarantees the failure of a voucher system. You are then
> > creating a two tier system of schools. The ones that accept the voucher
> > as full tuition, and those that don't. How is a parent from a "poor"
> > inner city school supposed to get the funds to pay the tuition thats on
> > top of the voucher??
>
> There always has been, and always will be, stratification in education
> -- and it's not just two tiers. That said, most proponents of voucher
> systems would argue that even the lowest tier of private education could
> perform better with the same funding than some of the public schools.
> Private enterprise has proven time and again to be capable of better
> financial performance than the government.
I think more important is the catalyst that competition is for change.
There is evidence that just the threat of voucher systems competing with
public schools is driving changes......If you start losing customers to a
new competitor, you are much more likely to figure out why and make changes
to combat it.
Bill Walker
"Mark T. Evert" <mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Z6rmc.67350$NR5....@fe1.texas.rr.com...
>
> "cory" <postm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:PEqmc.5870$8G3....@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
> > Robert M. wrote:
> >
> > > In article <409984F4...@blockspam.org>,
> > > Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>Vouchers would make all schools use a combination of public and
private
> > >>funds. Schools would recieve voucher funds per student, and some
would
> > >>charge a tuition above and beyond that.
> > >
> > >
> > > That in itself guarantees the failure of a voucher system. You are
then
> > > creating a two tier system of schools. The ones that accept the
voucher
> > > as full tuition, and those that don't. How is a parent from a "poor"
> > > inner city school supposed to get the funds to pay the tuition thats
on
> > > top of the voucher??
Wanna privatize the education system in the US.. OK.. go ahead.. Invest the
money.. build the schools .. buy the books.. buy the advertising and
publicity to sell the product.. Don't ask for a dime of taxpayer money to
provide you with the tuition to pay for those students education... Don't
you dare go near the existing school facilities built with my money..Leave
the taxpayer equipment alone, and if you recruit my teachers who were
educated by some of my money, please treat them well and pay them a
competitive salary.. You silly shits really piss me off.. All this
privatization and voucher crap is only a smokescreen to cover your ass..
What you really want to do is set yourself up in a prosperous venture, that
has been built over many years, on the backs of taxpayers.. Got an idea.. do
what the private sector is supposed to do.. invest.. build it and stay out
of the taxpayers pocket..Do it with your own goddam money.. Don't try to
hijack my system that I helped pay for and call it privatization or vouchers
.. Call it what is .. hijacking..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
Brian Hofmann
> money.. build the schools .. buy the books.. buy the advertising and
> publicity to sell the product.. Don't ask for a dime of taxpayer money to
> provide you with the tuition to pay for those students education... Don't
> you dare go near the existing school facilities built with my money..Leave
> the taxpayer equipment alone, and if you recruit my teachers who were
> educated by some of my money, please treat them well and pay them a
> competitive salary.. You silly shits really piss me off.. All this
> privatization and voucher crap is only a smokescreen to cover your ass..
> What you really want to do is set yourself up in a prosperous venture, that
> has been built over many years, on the backs of taxpayers.. Got an idea.. do
> what the private sector is supposed to do.. invest.. build it and stay out
> of the taxpayers pocket..Do it with your own goddam money.. Don't try to
> hijack my system that I helped pay for and call it privatization or vouchers
> .. Call it what is .. hijacking..
>
> Bill Walker
> Irving, Tx.
Bill, you truly are as ignorant as anyone could be.
Is that all that matters here, Money? Who pays for it, and whatnot?
Not once have you said a damn thing about how SCREWED up the entire
public education is in this country right now.
This is not about money, maybe to a yellow dog goofy idiot liberal
such as your self it is, but to most people who pay school taxes, and
have kides in the public education system,it's about our
kids getting a very shitty education from your coveted taxpayer fed
schools.
shitty and getting shittier every year.
To me it's about the quality of education, it seems the more the gov
spends the dunmber the kids get. enough is enough, it has only gotten
worse over the last 30+years and all you can say is "throw more money
at it"
That is exactly what I would expect from an idiot such as yourself.
Most of the population can see that the public education system has
failed them and their children, and it's getting worse every year.
Privitizing schools is a step in a different direction, it may not be
the best soloution out there, but you cannot sit there with a straight
face and say that the current public education system works? it
doesn't. We have teachers
that are paid for with your damn money, that can't even pass a simple
exam to see if they are at all knowledgeable enough to teach at all.
Does that not tell you something? apparently not.
The public education system requirements for a teacher is about the
same today as it is to be a taxi driver, all you need is a face.
Are you afraid that kids might get a better education. that's what
this is about, better education for children, ALL CHILDREN!
Or would you have kids today grow up to be ignorant and close minded
like you?
What a dunmbfuck waste of human space you are.
cory
>
> Wanna privatize the education system in the US.. OK.. go ahead.. Invest the
> money.. build the schools .. buy the books.. buy the advertising and
> publicity to sell the product.. Don't ask for a dime of taxpayer money to
> provide you with the tuition to pay for those students education... Don't
> you dare go near the existing school facilities built with my money..Leave
> the taxpayer equipment alone, and if you recruit my teachers who were
> educated by some of my money, please treat them well and pay them a
> competitive salary.. You silly shits really piss me off.. All this
> privatization and voucher crap is only a smokescreen to cover your ass..
> What you really want to do is set yourself up in a prosperous venture, that
> has been built over many years, on the backs of taxpayers.. Got an idea.. do
> what the private sector is supposed to do.. invest.. build it and stay out
> of the taxpayers pocket..Do it with your own goddam money.. Don't try to
> hijack my system that I helped pay for and call it privatization or vouchers
> .. Call it what is .. hijacking..
All this, from someone whose primary source of income is probably Social
Security.
cory
> This is not about money, maybe to a yellow dog goofy idiot liberal
> such as your self it is, but to most people who pay school taxes, and
> have kides in the public education system,it's about our
> kids getting a very shitty education from your coveted taxpayer fed
> schools.
> shitty and getting shittier every year.
>
> To me it's about the quality of education, it seems the more the gov
> spends the dunmber the kids get. enough is enough, it has only gotten
> worse over the last 30+years and all you can say is "throw more money
> at it"
> That is exactly what I would expect from an idiot such as yourself.
>
True story: One of my wife's students is an immigrant from the Republic
of Ghana (that's central Africa, Bill). She managed to skip a grade when
she came to the United States, because the school system is one year
behind theirs. Let me repeat that. Our school system is one year behind
the Republic of Ghana's. (Bill, that means a bunch of African kids are
learning more than our kids are).
Mark T. Evert
I'm on your side Cory, but I wouldn't bet that your wife's student is
typical of Ghana education.....Adult literacy in Ghana is about 74%.
aw...@blockspam.org
Bill Walker
Hey moron.. you don't have to go to Ghana.. Cross the border into
Mexico..You want to send your kids to a private school, or you want to go
into the education business.. No one has ever objected.. There are many fine
private schools with impressive track records.. Go for it.. Don't do it on
the back of the taxpayers.. Invest your own damn money and go into business
for yourself.. Don't try to hijack the taxpayers education system or
piggyback on it.. Use your money and don't weasel around to get vouchers
from the taxpayers to finance your students.. Don't hijack the teachers that
the taxpayers pay the salaries to and the taxpayers educated them, in the
first place..Pay for the education of your own teachers...you anonymous
little shit head..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
Bill Walker
One idiot deserves the company of another.. I can guarantee the system in
that country is much like the system in Mexico.. Allotment of student
attendance depends on a lottery system.. If your number comes up, you go to
school.. if that number doesn't come up .. you sit that semester out.. If
you don't like the public education system and can afford to, send your rug
rats to a private school..When you do.. look around the capable teachers
there were educated in public schools.. They were recruited to that private
school.. Don't hold out your hand for some taxpayer financed voucher to pay
to send your brat to that private school.. Look around you.. the public
schools which are subcontracting to the private sector for some privatized
system to participate in their educational curriculum are paying those
privatized systems with taxpayer money.. The privatized system is recruiting
and hijacking teachers that came from the same taxpayer financed public
school.. Send your kid to an independent privatized school on your nickel..
don't touch the taxpayers money to finance your bullshit.. Thanks..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
>
Bill Walker
LMAO.. you little anonymous pipsqueak.. You are undoubtedly stupid as a tree
full of hoot owls..
cory
The difference is probably that not everybody goes to school, or that
not everybody finishes it, because they have more pressing concerns.
That's my guess.
cory
> Hey moron.. you don't have to go to Ghana.. Cross the border into
> Mexico..You want to send your kids to a private school, or you want to go
> into the education business.. No one has ever objected.. There are many fine
> private schools with impressive track records.. Go for it.. Don't do it on
> the back of the taxpayers.. Invest your own damn money and go into business
> for yourself.. Don't try to hijack the taxpayers education system or
> piggyback on it.. Use your money and don't weasel around to get vouchers
> from the taxpayers to finance your students.. Don't hijack the teachers that
> the taxpayers pay the salaries to and the taxpayers educated them, in the
> first place..Pay for the education of your own teachers...you anonymous
> little shit head..
Bill, learn how to compose proper sentences so that people will actually
want to read what you write. It's funny that you even think that you're
entitled to talk about the educational system, since you clearly did not
participate.
cory
> "cory" <postm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Mrwmc.24716$ry6....@newssvr22.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>All this, from someone whose primary source of income is probably Social
>>Security.
>
>
> LMAO.. you little anonymous pipsqueak.. You are undoubtedly stupid as a tree
> full of hoot owls..
Tellingly, you don't deny it.
Adam Weiss
> In article <409A2B3A...@blockspam.org>,
> Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
>
>
>>You erased and did not respond to the portion of my post which
>>acknowledges that and would create a system to counteract it.
>
>
> Sorry but that flat won't work:
Thank you for restoring this portion of my post.
>
>
>>What I would do if I were in control of a voucher system, however, is
>>create a wide range of grants available only to schools that peg their
>>tuitions at the amount of the vouchers.
>
>
>
> You guarantee cost cutting and poor schools by that. Using uncertified
> teachers on an "emergency" basis to save money, etc.
I never guaranteed cost cutting and poor schools in what I said, and I'd
be very interested in knowing what logic brought you to that conclusion.
The only thing that should be cut is the weighty bureaucratic
superstructures that control public schools, and it's what would be cut
under vouchers, at least by schools that would like to be competitve.
If you look at private schools and both public and private
univiersities, you'll find that none have such unweildy bureacracies on
top of them. And they succeed where public schools fail.
Bill Walker
Funny how those successful "private" schools push so hard to get their hands
into the taxpayers pockets with vouchers, isn't it ? The failed public
education system has done something right, even with all the shortcomings..
The heads and administrators of those successful private schools and most of
the teachers there, are products of that failed public school.. Evidently
they are smart enough to produce people smart enough to try to figure out
how to get their grubby little corporate and privatized fingers in the
taxpayers pockets.. Sorry jerkoff.. you ain't that fucking smart..
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
Bill Walker
Pretty good guess, I'd say you have some experience there, only in a
different degree.. That was you excuse for not ever engaging in military
service , as I recall.. You and Cheney should compare notes.. "other
priorities" I think is how you and him describe it.. I describe it another
way..
Adam Weiss
> Robert M. wrote:
>
>> In article <409984F4...@blockspam.org>,
>> Adam Weiss <aw...@blockspam.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Vouchers would make all schools use a combination of public and
>>> private funds. Schools would recieve voucher funds per student, and
>>> some would charge a tuition above and beyond that.
>>
>>
>>
>> That in itself guarantees the failure of a voucher system. You are
>> then creating a two tier system of schools. The ones that accept the
>> voucher as full tuition, and those that don't. How is a parent from a
>> "poor" inner city school supposed to get the funds to pay the tuition
>> thats on top of the voucher??
>
>
> There always has been, and always will be, stratification in education
> -- and it's not just two tiers.
Thank you for raising that point. Those who argue that vouchers would
create a two tiered school system are too often ignorant of this fact.
The stratification of schools today is far more insidious than it would
be in an intelligently designed voucher system. For one thing vouchers
would lower the economic bar to attending private schools. Furthermore,
a voucher system designed to guarantee that a large proportion of
schools do not charge tuitions above the level of vouchers would allow
students of all economic levels to choose among the schools that will
accept them without thought to the cost.
> That said, most proponents of voucher
> systems would argue that even the lowest tier of private education could
> perform better with the same funding than some of the public schools.
> Private enterprise has proven time and again to be capable of better
> financial performance than the government.
>
Schools should not be run as corporations but rather as miniature
universities. Private schools already are. They call their presidents
'headmasters' and the rules they ask students to abide by are far more
strict, but for all intents and purposes their administrations resemble
those of universities.
> I'll give you an interested, though somewhat unrelated example. In the
> state of North Carolina, liquor stores are all operated by the state
> government. The products are all sold at retail price. The hours are not
> very convenient, because it's a government operation - IIRC, they close
> at 9PM on Saturday. The selection is not very good either; specialty
> products such as high-end single-malt scotches are totally unavailable
> in North Carolina. But the clincher is this: some stores have actually
> managed to LOSE MONEY SELLING LIQUOR. This is government in action.
Better to compare private and public schools to your local private and
public universities. Has the University of Houston collapsed due to the
presence of Rice University a few miles away? Certainly not. UH has
more students than Rice, and it offers research opportunities for
faculty and graduate students that are equal to those offered by Rice.
There are differences, of course, UH is less selective in its admissions
than Rice; the campus isn't as nice. But failure? Absolutely not. If
anything the University of Houston is stronger because of Rice University.
Adam Weiss
>
>
> Funny how those successful "private" schools push so hard to get their hands
> into the taxpayers pockets with vouchers, isn't it ? The failed public
> education system has done something right, even with all the shortcomings..
> The heads and administrators of those successful private schools and most of
> the teachers there, are products of that failed public school.. Evidently
> they are smart enough to produce people smart enough to try to figure out
> how to get their grubby little corporate and privatized fingers in the
> taxpayers pockets..
<<snipped>>
The question to ask isn't how many private school teachers today are
themselves graduates of public schools. The question to ask is how many
private school teachers in 20 or 30 years will have graduated from
public schools.
You are also misguided to think that private schools are anxiously
waiting for public funds. The ones that would be are too busy fighting
off creditors to also enter a political battle.
Bill Walker
What the hell do you think all this voucher shit is about.. You are a lying
sack of shit..
>
Bill Walker
to, go ahead.. There's no law that says you can't and the rest of us don't
give a shit where those rug rats go..Just stay the hell out of the taxpayer
pocket to do it.. You and that moron in the white house aren't fooling
anyone anymore about your privatizing bullshit..
Mark T. Evert
narrow mind.
>
cory
>
> Pretty good guess, I'd say you have some experience there, only in a
> different degree.. That was you excuse for not ever engaging in military
> service , as I recall.. You and Cheney should compare notes.. "other
> priorities" I think is how you and him describe it.. I describe it another
> way..
>
FYI, there was never a draft during my lifetime, you old fart.
Bill Walker
Hit it outlaw.. Personally I got a damn good mouse and learned how to click
it.. hmmm wonder if I can privatize that and get the taxpayers to pay for
all the worn out ones.. You guys are funny as hell.. Get called on your
phony bullshit and you are gonna "killfie" someone.. Does it hurt.. you dumb
shit.. Ever google in to tx.politics.. Killfile that you silly prick..
ROTFLMAO
>
>
cory
> Hey dummy.. If you can afford those private schools to send your rug rats
> to, go ahead.. There's no law that says you can't and the rest of us don't
> give a shit where those rug rats go..Just stay the hell out of the taxpayer
> pocket to do it.. You and that moron in the white house aren't fooling
> anyone anymore about your privatizing bullshit..
You have an amazing talent for missing the point.
Bill Walker
Yeah and you damn sure ain't about to "volunteer".. LMAO.. There will soon
be a draft.. Keep on supporting Bush.. He'll take care of it for you... I
sure stupid littel smart shits like you are the first called up..Put your
wornmy ass right up front.. where you belong..
Bill Walker
Nope.. got a talent for focusing on "the point" and not being distracted by
some little shithead with an identity crisis..
cory
Whatever. You can have the last word, because you're just plain boring.
vonroach
<bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
>What the hell do you think all this voucher shit is about.. You are a lying
>sack of shit..
>>
with the impressive rhetoric learned in public baby sitters (schools),
Walker the Wacko stumbles for words to express his indignation that
schools should be expected to teach. He learned his line of thought
back in his good old days stumbling in the gutter, mumbling "Hell no
we won't go"
vonroach
He is incredibly dumb, but he didn't miss the point - he is a
political shill and thus had to find an excuse to work in his democrat
slant.
vonroach
<bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Hey dummy.. If you can afford those private schools to send your rug rats
>to, go ahead.. There's no law that says you can't and the rest of us don't
>give a shit where those rug rats go..Just stay the hell out of the taxpayer
>pocket to do it.. You and that moron in the white house aren't fooling
>anyone anymore about your privatizing bullshit..
>
They're already in the taxpayers pocket BillyBob, but I doubt that
bothers an ignorant bum like you. By far the biggest hand in the
taxpayers pocket steals money to support public schools - property
taxes to school district and to the State and US taxes spent for
subsidies. And the result is that we get big foul-mouthed ignorant
blow hards such as yourself.
vonroach
<bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Hit it outlaw.. Personally I got a damn good mouse and learned how to click
>it.. hmmm wonder if I can privatize that and get the taxpayers to pay for
>all the worn out ones.. You guys are funny as hell.. Get called on your
>phony bullshit and you are gonna "killfie" someone.. Does it hurt.. you dumb
>shit.. Ever google in to tx.politics.. Killfile that you silly prick..
>ROTFLMAO
Walker the Wacko and his wasted time in public school is the best
advertizement in the world for private schools.
Brian Hofmann
$Send your kid to an independent privatized school on your nickel..
> don't touch the taxpayers money to finance your bullshit.. Thanks..
Right, we would not want our kids to be educated enough to understand
that
morons like you don't seem to care about the education our children
aren't getting now. The betterment of society hangs in the balance and
you complain about money. What a dolt!
You seem only to worry about where the money comes from and where it
goes.
Childrens education be damned.
What about the fact that our current public education system is about
as screwed up as it can possibly be? One would guess that 30+ years of
failing
to give our children a quality education would matter in this
discussion.
You are dumber than a bag of hammers
(1$ to Ulysses S. McGill)
Donald X.
nas...@io.com (Brian Hofmann) wrote:
> Right, we would not want our kids to be educated enough to understand
> that
> morons like you
I love these USENET bullies that label anyone they disagree with "moron".
I think you must have been spot on with their wanting to get free
facilities to run a school for fun and profit.
Bill Walker
"Donald X." <D...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Dx9-47584F.1...@news4.west.earthlink.net...
Yessir.. these guys have been trying to "privatize" the school system in our
country for years.. They are trying to use this voucher thing, as a means to
increase attendance and enhance their bottom line.. Those vouchers will be
paid for by the taxpayers.. Many of the public schools have been conned into
subcontracting some of the workload to these "private" and corporate
entities.. They are paid by school taxes .. Again ..taxpayer money..If
anyone wants to send his kids to private school, that is ok by me.. I don't
want taxpayer money to finance that choice.. Unfortunately .. much of the
public is not affluent enough to send our kids to those schools.. Others of
us should not finance their choices.. Sincere solutions to the problem is to
dedicate ourselves to development of the best school systems that we can
afford..By development, I am certainly not including "privatization" as a
means.. Any school who receives any funding from public funding is not
"private".. and should not be allowed to taxpayer money.. Is our system
perfect.. No.. Does it need improvement and work Yes..Isn't it a bit
questionable how all the "private" schools are staffed by teachers who are
products of those deplorable public schools ?
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
Mark T. Evert
Huh? I guess by your definition then just about all colleges (and any
other business that does business with the government is not "private"????
Yes..Isn't it a bit
> questionable how all the "private" schools are staffed by teachers who are
> products of those deplorable public schools ?
What is your point here? I don't blame the teachers for the problems in
public schools....there are competent teachers there and I am sure there are
incompetent teachers in private schools.....One difference is that the
teachers unions make it difficult if not impossible to get rid of
incompetent teachers in public schools. Other problems include the
mindset of school administrators who have no motivation to streamline
processes, improve cirriculum and generally bitch about any type of public
accountability such as standardized testing.
Your arguments make no sense at all although I do agree with one
sentence...."Sincere solutions to the problem is to dedicate ourselves to
development of the best school systems that we can afford."
We differ on how to do that though. You seem hung up on the money side of
the issue which is a pretty shallow way to look at this issue.....Something
I suspect there is something deeper inside that really bugs you that you
haven't mentioned yet......Care to share?....or are you just shallow?
>
> Bill Walker
> Irving, Tx.
>
>
cory
>
> We differ on how to do that though. You seem hung up on the money side of
> the issue which is a pretty shallow way to look at this issue.....Something
> I suspect there is something deeper inside that really bugs you that you
> haven't mentioned yet......Care to share?....or are you just shallow?
Bill is a poor, bitter old man who resents people who are more
successful than him.
vonroach
<bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Yessir.. these guys have been trying to "privatize" the school system in our
>country for years.. T
That's right BillyBob, to save the system from bureaucrats and a
socialist teacher's union.
vonroach
<mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>Your arguments make no sense at all although I do agree with one
>sentence...."Sincere solutions to the problem is to dedicate ourselves to
>development of the best school systems that we can afford."
Flowery meaningless words without a clue as to what action is
recommended.
Mark T. Evert
"vonroach" <hadr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:014o90lnoiboo0m0c...@4ax.com...
That's why I agreed with it.....<smile>
Mitchell Holman
news:er3o901lrr7q5lo0p...@4ax.com:
You missed the memo. Bush's Education Sec. says that
teachers are TERRORISTS.
knowbuddy
On Fri, 07 May 2004 22:37:28 GMT, vonroach <hadr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
Why would teachers lean more towards social democracy than other
lesser educated people? Do you think that their long term exposure to
a wide variety of people in a learning environment may have
contributed to their view that the wellbeing of our society is much
more important to us all, than the vulgar accumulation of more and
more money, by people who just can't get enough?
Face it, some American billionaires are so stuffed with money and so
addicted to getting more of it that they are very much like the
horrifically obese people that you can occassionally read about in
supermarket tabloids - who are so obese that large cranes have to be
used to get them out of their rooms.
More and more American's are waking up to the fact that "One nation...
with liberty and justice for all" is an appalling lie that school
children are supposed to repeat every morning. That too will pass,
like stinky gas.
>8-()
XXXXXXXXXX
The American corporate news industry is a cash cow for the super rich
who also own the American politicians, the oil companies, and the 'war
machine' (defense) corporations. They want to make more and more and
more and more money, NOT to tell the people the truth about what's
going on, or to support democracy. To learn about what's going on in
the world, one must turn to other sources for information. Only the
truth will set us free from tyrants, fear, and needless bloodshed.
A good sources for daily news:
=================================
We cannot move on if we are entrapped in structures of economic or
cultural privilege. Sharing, especially in a world where most live at
or below the edge of misery, is as important and relevant as
disarmament; in fact, sharing the resources of the earth is
inseparable from the renunciation of war and violence. On such...
ground, the architecture of a new world order based on human unity
will be easy to conceive and enact." Richard Falk
============
"Without sharing there can be no justice; without justice there can be
no peace; without peace there can be no future." The World Teacher
http://www.share-international.org
Robert M
knowbuddy <know...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> A good sources for daily news:
no thank you comrade.
God Bless Texas
> Why would teachers lean more towards social democracy than other
> lesser educated people? Do you think that their long term exposure to
> a wide variety of people in a learning environment may have
> contributed to their view that the wellbeing of our society is much
> more important to us all, than the vulgar accumulation of more and
> more money, by people who just can't get enough?
No, because it is only the newly-minted, freshly brainwashed ones that
actually believe that all people have the capability to actually succeed in
life's lottery, that anyone can be President, and that all it takes is hard
work to make it to the top of the heap in America.
After a few years (in some cases, quite a few) reality begins to set in, and
they realize that no matter how hard you teach them, and how patiently you
explain to them, some children just plain old don't understand even the
simplest material. The bell curve begins to loom large, and with luck they
quit sacrificing the gains of the many to accomodate the inabilities of the
few.
And who the heck led you to believe that teachers, as a class, are among the
more educated of us? College professors, maybe, but anything below that -
good luck Jack.
Grumpy au Contraire
The pathetic thing is the politicos who come up with stupid slogans like
"no child left behind." Anyone with a trace of spongy gray matter knows
that this cannot be so.
Some will succeed and some won't. The simple truth is that all people
are not created equal and from that point, they will (or should) take
their appropriate place in the scheme of things that comprise a
realistic society. To think otherwise is absurd but then, we do hear
that shouldn't be so.
Public education will never improve until those that run the system
recognize the plain facts of life...
--
JT
Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4
mwsmith
You really think professors are among the most educated? Most of them
are educated in a specific niche, not in general knowledge. Get them
out of their limited area of education and they are mostly dumb as
dirt.
Mike Smith
Brian Hofmann
> nas...@io.com (Brian Hofmann) wrote:
>
> > Right, we would not want our kids to be educated enough to understand
> > that
> > morons like you
>
> I love these USENET bullies that label anyone they disagree with "moron".
Not only is he a moron, he is a lowley pussufied coward at that.
>
> I think you must have been spot on with their wanting to get free
> facilities to run a school for fun and profit.
Another typical response from a person who probably did not get
everything from their public education they could've.
None of you idiots have ever addressed the issue that is the failing
of the public education system as it is right now.
We have to do something other than throw money at the problem.
Throwong money at the problem has not worked. period.
You got a better idea, why not share it.
rather than demonizing those who would like to see change.
tell us what you democrats would do.
Again, Bill is a moron because he complains about everything yet never
has the balls to come up with solutions. It's all about hate, and anger
with Bill, never a solution, just a problem.
Robert M
Grumpy au Contraire <Gru...@doofis.FAKEcom> wrote:
> Some will succeed and some won't. The simple truth is that all people
> are not created equal and from that point, they will (or should) take
> their appropriate place in the scheme of things that comprise a
> realistic society. To think otherwise is absurd but then, we do hear
> that shouldn't be so.
But in the past sometimes it has been prejudged who would succeed, and
resources were allocated accordingly. Instead everyone should start with
an equal opportunity to succeed, and if some initially have difficulty,
it doesn't mean they should automatically be given the "vocational"
track; there are such children as "late bloomers" for whom extra help
initially may be entirely appropriate rather than assuming they deserve
a lower "appropriate place".
Mark T. Evert
"Robert M" <rmar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:rmarkoff-1CA5DC...@news1.west.earthlink.net...
It's interesting though......some management studies indicate that managers
and supervisors spend 80% of their efforts dealing with "problem" or
otherwise poor workers......some management consultants now suggest that you
get the biggest bang for the buck developing your best workers and preparing
them for the next level.
Robert M
"Mark T. Evert" <mte...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
> It's interesting though......some management studies indicate that managers
> and supervisors spend 80% of their efforts dealing with "problem" or
> otherwise poor workers......some management consultants now suggest that you
> get the biggest bang for the buck developing your best workers and preparing
> them for the next level.
What has worker training and mispositioning workers got to do with our
educational system?
Dusty Rhodes
> Bill Walker wrote:
>
>>
>> Pretty good guess, I'd say you have some experience there, only in a
>> different degree.. That was you excuse for not ever engaging in
>> military service , as I recall.. You and Cheney should compare
>> notes.. "other priorities" I think is how you and him describe it..
>> I describe it another way..
>>
>
> FYI, there was never a draft during my lifetime, you old fart.
So, you're under 21, are you, you fucking moron. Man, does THAT ever make
sense.
Cheers,
Dusty
cory
OK, every once in a while, I make a mistake. I was never eligible for a
draft during my lifetime.
Bill Walker
"Dusty Rhodes" <crustydusty1@THIS PARThotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vtRnc.78000$Dn1....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Hot damn, Dusty.. Now you've gone and done it.. He's gonna create another
alias.. LMAO.. This guy has already got about seven, that I've counted..
Shit.. he's got so many computers, he had to have a separate name for each
of them and he's so silly, he can't keep track... Way to go.. Dusty... Good
job..Sometimes he changes his identity three times a day...LOL.. Regards...
Bill Walker
Irving, Tx.
>
>
Robert M
"Bill Walker" <bill.w...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Hot damn, Dusty.. Now you've gone and done it.. He's gonna create another
> alias.. LMAO.. This guy has already got about seven, that I've counted..
> Shit.. he's got so many computers, he had to have a separate name for each
> of them and he's so silly, he can't keep track... Way to go.. Dusty... Good
> job..Sometimes he changes his identity three times a day...LOL.. Regards...
>
> Bill Walker
> Irving, Tx.
When did Master Walker become the arbiter of all of USENET?
Bill Walker
Man.. you really got shit in your craw.. Kept thinking you were just
misunderstanding me in some of your other response posts .. Apparently, that
isn't the case.. Hell.. boy.. you wanna take me on, don't you ??