Panduit Certification Australia
Karola Mura
Hi all.
I'm installing cable for a lan circuit in our new home and wondering if it's really worth buying Krone cable/patch panels vs buying all from 4cabling... As in, am i really going to notice the difference?
Obviously you get what you pay for but I suppose I'm asking if anyone has done a comparison test between Krone and 4cabling?...Will 4cabling gear be subjected to more attenuation, degradation over the years or is will it be good enough quality until it's ripped out and replaced by fibre in 5-10 yrs?
Back to my OP though. I'm having my house built and I'm curerntly in design stage to run 4 ports to most rooms over a 200m2 block. I've never purchased form 4cabling and wondered if any licensed cablers had and what their thoughts were to get some constructed feedbacka and read these comments whilst waiting for feedback on my post...
Again if people should goto the extremes of getting a licensed cabler with quality products then they should equally go to a certified network installer with quality products. Only then will you have a reputable network in place and not an half ass job...IMHO
Besides there is wiggle room between 4cabling and Krone/ panduit for home installs.. Clipsal, AMDEX, CABAC, all depends on what electrical wall plates you are having installed, and if you want match them or make the house less attractive for resale value
I have never run a tester over 4cabling cables so can't give you a 100% accurate answer.
The data sheets on ADC Krone and Clipsal Titanium cables are available on their websites, and the construction (pair seperation, twist rates, etc etc) are definitely much better than some other 'similar' products.
And dont use cable ties...I have seen many a good job ruined with cable ties.
Cable ties depress 'pinch' the cable and stuff up its electrical characteristics and hence data speeds...use velcro strips or electrical tape
As pointed out...if you rave on about how clients should use quality licensed cablers and equipment then would you compromise on the gateway/switches....unless of course you install inferior cable then it doesn't make sense....still i've seen some dodgy cablers so this...skip on the buying decent hardware to profit themselves.
There appears to be a common misconception that the definition of 'quality' is 'really expensive and solid'. It's not. You need to think more along the lines of 'meets specification'. 'Fit for purpose'. etc.
For my own purposes (i.e. my own domestic install and others), the 4cabling stuff appears to meet this level. While I've stuck to their Krone-style termination gear, it does the job, and provides me with connections throughout the home that pass the standards for Gigabit according to the Fluke.
At the end of the day, it comes down to using something that's appropriate for the job. I would argue (and I'm sure many would agree) that specififying Krone gear simply because it's Krone is nothing more than w*nk, and probably overkill in a domestic situation.
People always bag out 4cabling but in a home situation there is nothing wrong with it.
Yes 4cabling are just a white label china importer with their logo wacked on the side.
In a home where the roll out is small and not mission critical then 4cabling the way to go.
If your wiring up a small business/enterprise or large area then get the brand name simply for known quality and support.
The benefit of using "brand" name components, is that the system as a whole is tested so that, cable mates nicely with the IDC's on the back of the Jack. The structured cabling system has been designed from end to end including patch / fly leads. I've seen manufacturing intolerances between noname and brand name cause intermittent connectivity issues.
Additionally the characteristic impedance of the network components are matched meaning that the transmission line has fewer reflections and impedance mismatches. Reduces CRC errors (who cares in domestic) but ensures the best transmission characteristics for analogue signals such as component AV (important specifically in domestic).
Although Linksys are not Cisco/HP, neither are their prices. I have quite a few Linksys devices at my offices, and have not had a single fault. On the other hand, stacking 830 series routers was a bad idea!
Cabling infrastructure should be considered a 10-15 yr investment (depriciations under 10 yrs could be questioned by ATO). Cabling (STP) I did in 1990 is still in use commercially, and I know of some that are older still in use.
I called their Mechs shit house..
well call a spade "a spade" huh?
I've never bought or used any 4 cabling products. Being ex-Telstra I've been using Krone since the 1980's. The difference between Krone mechs and "the rest" is in long term usage and re-usage. I've seen Krone ids blocks re-terminated/re-punched a dozen 100 times over with never a failure!...I have absolutely no hesitation re-using secondhand Krone 5e patch panels but I would never trust a seondhand re-terminated Clipsal mech...from my experience I wouldn't even trust a new one! But Clipsal Titanium cable is ok!
What amuses me is seeing a job spec that insists on Krone and then watch a bunch of cowboys string out the cables across ceiling tiles and tngled up with 3 phase power, etc...wtf?
I call it like I see it. If most installers could get 4cabling to stop selling to the public and make their pricelists private they'd be recommending and installing them by the truckload. Unfortuantely for them the pricing is easy to see and the public can buy it cheaply so there is NO margin in it from an installer perspective that he can markup like the other brands.
Patch panelling and sockets are a basic technology these days. They have become a commodity. Everyone knows how to make a decent set. It's not new tech and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if some of the kron stuff isn't coming out of some of the same factories just rebadged.
Why re-install old shit when the new stuff works great and is cheap in price to boot. You'd be crazy. For the price difference I'd rather install a new patch panel each time than try to re-use old krone's..
Hold the line... I wondered how long it would be before someone would start talking ahead of themselves....did i even mention CISCO or even any Hardware equipment???...I purely said...If the client can afford cabling gear like Krone then they should consider inserting into the network equally quality tested dsl hardware...or if not you may as well put crap in like TP-Link/Linksys etc along with cat5...that is cat5 not cat5e or cat6 or cat6a...crap with crap or good with good to better the partnership that is networking.
u would not notice the difference cause the cable u have wont have been test to the aus standandard for cat5e or cat6 so why bother spending the money on the good gear when u wont know if ur terminations are upto scratch.
Again thx Junctionbox...As our home is custom built and will be built in stages i forsee that the comms room as such will be moved again in 1-2yrs. So having feedback about a quality product is useful to take in.
I've seen exactly this through my years which is what prompted me to learn and attain my cable license myself. I don't hire out my services but use the knowledge on my own network plus the companies that i manage. That way i know it's done right from scratch...Just that there's more out there that have far more cabling experience than me and this is what prompted my thread.
ATM I only offer TP Link as I don't need to have access to good pricing on other brands such as Billion and Linksys or even Cisco gear, yet all the mum and dad installs which is 90% of my Business don't care even after trying to educate them they go for the cheaper option. same goes for managed and unmanaged switches.. not everyone wants to run a lab at home.. they just want it to work and sit ina the cabinet and not have to worry about configuring it every other day
That's all quite valid. but my point is that i've seen cablers on this forum obnoxiously not answer legimate questions regarding cabling if they aren't licensed and rave on about how the cabler should be using cat6 quality cable then install inferior dsl equipment.
So you've got this more expensive cable plus cable install fee and then it craps itself at the gateway because the damn thing melted 13 months later, if that.
...I call it like I see it. If most installers could get 4cabling to stop selling to the public and make their pricelists private they'd be recommending and installing them by the truckload. Unfortuantely for them the pricing is easy to see and the public can buy it cheaply so there is NO margin in it from an installer perspective that he can markup like the other brands.
I manage the communications for a mine site which apart from the plant and mine itself also has 4,700 rooms with an occupancy of 83% that I look after IPTV, IP Fire Detection, VoIP telephone handsets, ADSL2 and IP video security for...all cabled with krone and more recently Clipsal Titanium products....hence my recommendations for it...as it works very well for these applications.
comes down to peoples budgets... and when you dealing with Clients who are trying to penny pinch at the best of times.. try when you are offering a "luxury service". for example.. sure when I build all my house will be krone from end to end on Clipsal or what ever is the bees knees wal plates when I build. I'll also be a "krone master installer" then so hey it will have warranty for the life of the house.
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