泣き別れ in electrical insulation

[Jon Johanning]

OK, here's a strange one (to me, at least). In a report on a breakdown
in the insulation of an electrical cable at a low voltage, the cause is
inferred to be a 泣き別れ. Sounds like a very sad situation, but what
would it be called in English? Certainly nothing to do with crying.

TIA,

Jon Johanning

[Hào Anh Lê 黎英豪]

俗に、一緒にしておくべきものが別れ別れになること。「イラストがページの間で―になる」「首と胴が―になる」

First Google hit:

http://kotobank.jp/word/%E6%B3%A3%E5%88%A5%E3%82%8C

Hào Anh Lê

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[Herman]

It is not a technical term, just a figurative expression, like saying
"the insulation and wire parted company", so depending on how exactly
the term is used, 'coming apart', 'separation', 'becoming separated
from' or the like may be appropriate.

Herman Kahn

[Alan Siegrist]

As far as I can tell, 泣き別れ (literally a "tearful parting") is something
of a rather informal and melodramatic way of saying that two things that
should remain together are separated (or perhaps "rent asunder" if we are
going to use a similarly melodramatic English idiom).
(I got this from the same source cited by Hao Anh Le.)

Apparently this same idiom is used for a type of railroad accident where a
switch is inadvertently switched while the train is still passing through,
so there is a "tearful parting" where the front section goes one way but the
rear section goes the other way, often leading to a derailment. In English,
this type of accident is called "splitting the switch."

Unfortunately, from your description I cannot tell exactly what is separated
from what.

Regards,

Alan Siegrist
Carmel, CA, USA

[Jon Johanning]

Thanks for the quick help. I can't quite tell what is separating either,
except that there was an insulation breakdown. Probably the insulation
broke apart, but it might be a separation between the conductor and the
insulation.

Jon Johanning

[Dr. M. S. Niranjan]

(2012/10/06 5:53), Jon Johanning wrote:
> I can't quite tell what is separating either, except that there was an
> insulation breakdown. Probably the insulation broke apart, but it might be
> a separation between the conductor and the insulation.

In that case I suppose that the separation is occurring due to some
indirect reason, or "due to an unavoidable but indirect cause" which
itself was caused by some other events.

Anyway, there is a definite reason for the author to use the words 泣き
別れ other than implying emotional trauma between the conductor and the
insulator.
How sad. Without knowing what is being separated from what and why, I
am feeling sad about the fate that has befallen us.

Dr. M. S. Niranjan

[John Stroman]

Jon,

> Anyway, there is a definite reason for the author to use the words 泣き 別れ
> other than implying emotional trauma between the conductor and the
> insulator.

I think Dr. Niranjan has a valid point, but it is impossible to verify
without seeing the rest of the sentence.

What occurs to me is perhaps the author is suggesting (in overly
dramatic terms) that some kind of mechanical force by some kind of
agent was applied that caused the insulation to be "torn asunder" from
the conductor. Hence, the painful parting.

John Stroman

[Steven P. Venti]

John Stroman <stromana...@gmail.com> wrote:
> What occurs to me is perhaps the author is suggesting (in overly
> dramatic terms) that some kind of mechanical force by some kind of
> agent was applied that caused the insulation to be "torn asunder" from
> the conductor. Hence, the painful parting.

My experience with this term , which admittedly might not bear any relevance
to Jon's situation, is that whatever pain there is is being suffered by the
engineers, who were planning on using a certain conductor with a certain
insulator but as a result of testing have found it is impracticable to do so and
now must however reluctantly change their plans.

Anyway, that is how the engineers that I worked with use the term.
YMMV, of course.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Venti
spv...@bhk-limited.com

You want to squeeze my nose? Go ahead! I think we're all bozos on this bus.
-- The Firesign Theatre
------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Dr. M. S. Niranjan]

(2012/10/06 6:35), Steven P. Venti wrote:
> My experience with this term , which admittedly might not bear any relevance
> to Jon's situation, is that whatever pain there is is being suffered by the
> engineers, who were planning on using a certain conductor with a certain
> insulator but as a result of testing have found it is impracticable to do so and
> now must however reluctantly change their plans.

In that case, the 泣き別れ is not between the conductor and the
insulator, but is the 泣き別れ of the designing engineer(s) and their
pet idea(s). Does the rest of the sentence and the context suggest this
kind of 泣き別れ?

Dr. M. S. Niranjan

[John Stroman]

Steve's interpretation also makes good sense, i.e., we reluctantly
gave up on this design.

Jon, please provide more context.

John Stroman

[Tom Donahue]

I think it's a technical term, colloquial but technical.

ディスプレイ用光学フィルムを帯状シートから打抜き加工
によって枚葉シートに切断後、セパレータフィルムを剥離
するときに、粘着剤層も剥離される所謂泣き別れが生じない
様な、ディスプレイ用光学フィルムの切断方法とこれを
用いた製造方法を提供する。
http://www.ekouhou.net/disp-fterm-5G435LL07.html

Here's another referring to layers in a film coming apart.
http://www.ekouhou.net/チップ保護用フィルム/disp-A,2011-228637.html

And I saw a patent yesterday that had 19 instances of
泣き別れ not occurring, without defining what it is.
I didn't say anything because I thought someone would
have a better answer, but I do think it's technical.

--
Tom Donahue

[ymkmym]

Hello

I happened to find this. It possibly might help...

http://www.j-tokkyo.com/2008/C09J/JP2008-169281.shtml

>いわゆる「泣き別れ」（所定の界面で剥離・・・・・・）

Yumiko Matsuda

[Jon Johanning]

On 10/5/12 6:27 PM, John Stroman wrote:
> Steve's interpretation also makes good sense, i.e., we reluctantly
> gave up on this design.
>
> Jon, please provide more context.
>
>

I don't know that there is much more helpful context. The sentence
containing the word is

破壊起点は絶縁体中(内導から6-16mm範囲のどこか)であり，泣き別れ破壊と推測
される。

The breakdowns appeared in two samples (one breakdown in each). The
cause that this report suggested was that bits of "agglomerated carbon"
were incorporated in the insulation material when it was made; the
authors point out that when the material was extruded it was passed
through a very fine mesh which would have removed large metal particles,
etc. An analysis of the electrical trees in the material showed that
metal particles which would produce such breakdown sites would be so big
that the mesh would have removed them.

I decided that just calling it a "separation" and not bothering with the
weeping part was the thing to do.

Jon Johanning

[Steven P. Venti]

Jon Johanning <jjoha...@igc.org> wrote:
> I don't know that there is much more helpful context. The sentence
> containing the word is
>
> 破壊起点は絶縁体中(内導から6-16mm範囲のどこか)であり，泣き別れ破壊と推測
> される。

Well, clearly, my suggestion doesn't apply to 泣き別れ破壊と推測される, that
actually is helpful context.

CHeers,

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Venti
spv...@bhk-limited.com

A word is not a crystal--transparent and unchanging; it is the
skin of a living thought, and may vary greatly in color and
content according to the circumstances and time in which it is
used. --Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
-----------------------------------------------------------------