Daku = just an embrace?
Nora Stevens Heath
This is something I've been wondering about for a while: the verb 抱く
（だく）and its relatives 抱きしめる and the more abstract 抱く
（いだく）. In my Japanese literature classes, I was told that 抱く had
a double meaning, both the tame "embrace" and the more salacious "have
sexual intercourse with"--or, given the rather florid contexts in which
I've heard it, perhaps a euphemism like "make love to" would be more
appropriate.
I have heard 抱く in contexts where either meaning would make sense,
such as moody シャンソン的 Itsuwa Mayumi songs. Is there any tried-and-
true way to tell the difference, or is it just one of those things, like
the sometimes unclear use of the word "know" in the King James Bible?
I'd hate to put unintentionally shocking words in anyone's mouth should
such a dilemma cross my desk; I bet some NJSes can set me straight.
Thanks for any insight--
Nora
--
Nora Stevens Heath <no...@fumizuki.com>
J-E translations: http://www.fumizuki.com/
Eric Tschetter
> sense,
> such as moody シャンソン的 Itsuwa Mayumi songs. Is there any
> tried-and-
> true way to tell the difference, or is it just one of those things,
> like
> the sometimes unclear use of the word "know" in the King James Bible?
> I'd hate to put unintentionally shocking words in anyone's mouth
> should
> such a dilemma cross my desk; I bet some NJSes can set me straight.
I don't think you'll find any tried and true way to tell which meaning
is which, but I think that you can portray the same euphemistic sense
with the word "hold":
"I want to hold you."
"I want to hold you close."
"I want to hold you in my arms."
"Hold me."
Could all be references to just wanting to cuddle as well as
references to wanting to participate in the act (and then perhaps
cuddle?).
--Eric
Fred Uleman
Also, I suspect a reader poll to identify 一番抱きたい女優 would be titled "sexiest actress" in English.
And with small children, it can be "pick up" as much as "hug."
So it is a very wide range, and you can only tell/guess from context.
--
Fred Uleman
Jon Allen
Except with young children, the word "dakou" not "daite" would be used to infer (pick me up and carry me).
Daite used among adults could mean hug or something else, I seem to remember an old girlfriend used to say daite to me to mean "hug" unfortunately...
Jon Allen
--- On Wed, 17/9/08, Fred Uleman <ful...@gmail.com> wrote:
Marc Adler
> Except with young children, the word "dakou" not "daite" would be used
I think you mean dakko, not dakou.
Marc Adler
Shinya Suzuki
> This is something I've been wondering about for a while: the verb 抱く
> （だく）and its relatives 抱きしめる and the more abstract 抱く
> （いだく）. In my Japanese literature classes, I was told that 抱く had
> a double meaning, both the tame "embrace" and the more salacious "have
> sexual intercourse with"--or, given the rather florid contexts in which
> I've heard it, perhaps a euphemism like "make love to" would be more
> appropriate.
"Embrace" seems to have a similar double meaning (see below). Is the
euphemistic usage obsolete or uncommon?
[Merriam-Webster Unabridged]
embrace [1, verb]
1 a : to clasp in the arms usually as a gesture of affection : HUG
b : to copulate with
[OED]
embrace, n.
1. The action of folding in the arms, of pressing to the bosom.
(Sometimes euphemistically for sexual intercourse.)
...1750 Johnson Rambl. No. 91 37 Pride .. by whose embraces she had
two daughters.
> I have heard 抱く in contexts where either meaning would make sense,
> such as moody シャンソン的 Itsuwa Mayumi songs. Is there any tried-and-
> true way to tell the difference, or is it just one of those things, like
> the sometimes unclear use of the word "know" in the King James Bible?
> I'd hate to put unintentionally shocking words in anyone's mouth should
> such a dilemma cross my desk; I bet some NJSes can set me straight.
As you may know well, non-sexual/affectionate embraces between adults
(who are not lovers or couples) are rather rare in Japan. Another thing
is that sexual intercourse is physically difficult without embracing
each other. So the question is how much sexual intercourse is implied by
the word 抱く. My brief answer is: minimally when it is uttered or used
by women, but contex-dependently by men.
In all examples below (from her songs), the sexual implication seems
minimal.
(1) 抱きしめて
・・・
だから抱きしめて
何も言わずに
別れを告げるその前に
・・・
(Note that in most cases, 抱きしめて, in contrast to 抱いて, is literal
rather than euphemistic.)
(2) 熱いさよなら
・・・
恋のはじめはロマンス
ふざけあい抱きしめあった
そんな春だった
・・・
(3) 運命
・・・
まぶたとじれば
あなたに抱かれている
そう想えるとき
寂しさいつも越えられた
・・・
Shinya Suzuki
Nora Stevens Heath
> "Embrace" seems to have a similar double meaning (see below). Is the
> euphemistic usage obsolete or uncommon?
I can't say I've seen it much, if at all, but then again I don't read
romance novels, and I can see it (and "clasp") cropping up in that
medium quite a bit. My husband (not a Japanese speaker) suggests that
抱く is like "sleep with" or "spend the night with", which can go from
innocent to shocking depending on context--especially what comes after
"with".
> In all examples below (from her songs), the sexual implication seems
> minimal.
> だから抱きしめて
> 何も言わずに
> 別れを告げるその前に
I had thought of the examples you gave, as well as a few more (she
really does use that verb a lot); this excerpt in particular struck me
as providing a good contrast:
(愛の蜃気楼）
だまって私を
抱いてほしいの
罪も情けも束縛も
ここにはないと言って
Maybe what little context we have here--her asking her partner for
verbal reassurance--would steer us away from the sexual meaning of 抱く,
since there's a limit to how chatty pillow talk really can be. Then
again, is 言う so literal that the reassurance must only be verbal?
Incidentally, there are some interesting language themes in Itsuwa
Mayumi's lyrics, a lot of ～て欲しい, a lot of 抱く, a lot of "tell me
something I want to hear". I would have liked to have written a whole
paper on her in my Music in Modern Japan class, but we had only just
been introduced.
Jon Allen
You're right, it should be dakko 抱っこ,
apologies
Jon
--- On Wed, 17/9/08, Marc Adler <marc....@gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Marc Adler <marc....@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Daku = just an embrace?
> To: hon...@googlegroups.com