Animation, or animated film/content/production (etc)?
Jim Lockhart
Now I've got an _English_ question for all you natives out there!
When I was a kid, we always called animated shorts (the ones that get
projected onto a screen or shown on TV, not the ones some people wear)
_cartoons_ and the feature-length ones _animated films_.
Walt Disney Animation Studios (http://www.disneyanimation.com/aboutus/history.html)
and other industry players still refer to _animated films_, and the
Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animation) and
Wiktionary entry (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/animation) on animation
suggest that _animation_ still refers to only the techniques, and that content
created with these techniques is still usually called _animated [noun
for type of content].
But several translators I know (NESs living in NZ and Japan)
consistently render アニメーション as _animation_, even though アニメー
ション is referring to content (films and videos), not the technique.
I'd like to know whether this usage is becoming common in
English-speaking countries, and if it is whether only in the spoken
language or in writing as well. What do you think? Could some of you
folks kinda sharpen your antennae and keep and ear and eyeball out for
this usage?
Curiously yours,
--Jim Lockhart
Hachioji, Tokyo, JPN
Wolfgang Bechstein
> Now I've got an _English_ question for all you natives out there!
I'm sure the natives will jump out of the woodwork presently, but in the
meantime, allow me to point out that the IMDB has a whole section on the
genre:
http://www.imdb.com/Sections/Genres/Animation/
They do talk about "Animation movies" and the "Animation genre" though.
I personally am more comfortable with "animated feature" or "animated
film", but this may well be a generational thing. Anime is an English
noun by now, and by analogy, animation in the sense of animated film
might be as well.
Wolfgang Bechstein
Dan Burgess
(with Super 8 mm...), animation was indeed the process, and what you
watched on TV were cartoons, and a full-length movie at a theatre was
an "animated movie". I would maybe call something shorter (say 30
mins. or less) an animated film.
A quick look at the Ottawa International Animation Festival site
indicates that "film" is used. http://ottawa.awn.com
Don't know if that's much help.
- Dan Burgess, in Yokohama
-----------------------
Dan Burgess
canuck....@gmail.com
Derek Lin
> I personally am more comfortable with "animated feature" or "animated
> film", but this may well be a generational thing. Anime is an English
> noun by now, and by analogy, animation in the sense of animated film
> might be as well.
>
Merriam-Webster:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/animation
Derek Lin
minoru
a type of movies among others, such as Action, Adventure and Thriller.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_genre
Minoru Mochizuki
Anthony Bryant
On Oct 2, 2008, at 8:56 PM, minoru wrote:
>
> If you look into Film Genre (Wikipedia), you will find "animation" as
> a type of movies among others, such as Action, Adventure and Thriller.
> See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_genre
Yes, as a genre. But, not all genre terms -- "action adventure," for
example -- are used as collective terms for a movie.
I don't know anyone who says "I want to see *A* science fictiion" --
anymore than I know anyone who says "I want to see *AN* animation."
They are "science fiction films" or "action adventure films" or
"animated films."
Tony
Carl Freire
>Yes, as a genre. But, not all genre terms -- "action adventure," for
>example -- are used as collective terms for a movie.
>
>I don't know anyone who says "I want to see *A* science fictiion" --
>anymore than I know anyone who says "I want to see *AN* animation."
>
>They are "science fiction films" or "action adventure films" or
>"animated films."
Jim's question in part asked what people say in conversation. I
can't think of anyone who would talk about going to see "animation"
or an "animated film," though they might talk about seeing "an
animation festival," say (anyone a Spike & Mike fan?). American fans
of Japanese animation will talk about seeing "anime"; otherwise, I'm
pretty sure most people are off to see "cartoons."
Written language is another matter, especially among fans of animated
films who think "cartoon" signfies just "kid stuff" like all those
mostly crappy Saturday morning Hanna-Barbera cartoons (an analogy
that may be meaningful is how serious science fiction fans view the
phrase "sci-fi"). "Animation" as a term is seen as more dignified
than "cartoon." For that matter, as an exception to the opening graf
I wouldn't be surprised if these animation fans consciously use
"animation" rather than "cartoon" when they are talking.
The question, I suppose, is to what degree this usage is spreading
out among the general public. I also wonder how much Pixar and its
products have been changing the way people talk about these movies
(off the top of my head, I think I for one would be more likely to
simply say, "I'm off to see the latest Pixar movie" rather than use
either "animated film" or "cartoon"). Anyone in North America with
high school or college age children care to comment? What do your
offspring say when they talk about going to see the latest Pixar
movie?
Random observationally yours,
Carl
--
**********
Carl Freire
cfreire /[@]* ix.netcom.com
Tokyo, Japan
Anthony Bryant
I just remembered another one. "Foreign." That's a very broad genre
that one ALWAYS sees on movie catalogues and lists, and there is no
one who says "I really loved that new foreign."
That sort of thing is really irrelevant into what these films are
actually CALLED.
Tony
Sarah Alys
localizing Japanese TV shows and films, almost exclusively animated
ones. So here's what I can say about usage in the industry (and in its
related fandom) in the United States:
For a Japanese animated film/show, one says "anime," just as one would
in Japanese. This usage is sometimes extended to all Asian animation.
For non-Japanese/non-Asian animation, usage is divided according to
the perceived target audience. If the target audience is perceived to
be children or youth, the TV shows are still "cartoons." Thus, we talk
about the Aladin TV cartoons, the X-Men cartoons, the Batman
cartoons, etc. (If it contains a superhero, it is almost always called
a "cartoon" regardless of target age group.) Some Japanese anime such
as Digimon or Pokemon are often called "cartoons" because they are for
young children and also have widespread audiences in the US who are
unaware they even came from Japan. If the content is very
"mature" (code for violent or graphic in our oh-so-mature United
States), many people will use "animated short," "animated sketch,"
etc. instead of "cartoon," though "cartoon" is still okay. These
animated shorts are usually found in theaters or on the internet
rather than on TV.
As far as films, while Japanese animated films are still "anime," non-
Japanese films are not called "cartoons" unless they're literally
movie-length compilations of the Bugs Bunny variety. They're called
"animated movies" or just "movies" (or even "kids' movies" ;) ). The
computer animated movies by Dreamworks and Pixar can be somewhat
special, since many people don't actually realize they can be referred
to as "animated" just like your average Disney movie. I'm not sure
we've settled on a good term for them yet. Some people call them "CG
movies," etc.
I very rarely hear anyone refer to a film as an "animation," though I
believe that's happened once or twice.
Alys @ anime translator at your service
Sarah Alys
> in Japanese. This usage is sometimes extended to all Asian animation.
creators, we usually translate アニメーション as "anime" as well, not
"animation," when it's used in reference to an animated show (as
opposed to conceptually as in sentences like, "In animation, you can
do things that you can't do in live-action shows" or "The animation
process is composed of many steps," etc.). The American anime audience
is comfortable with "anime" as a term because they recognize it as a
"foreign word" that describes a unique genre, but since "animation"
can be used in everyday English conversation and is not used in the
same way as it is in Japanese, it can sound awkward to that same
audience.
Alys
Franzi
> (off the top of my head, I think I for one would be more likely to
> simply say, "I'm off to see the latest Pixar movie" rather than use
> either "animated film" or "cartoon"). Anyone in North America with
> high school or college age children care to comment?
US. Generally, we say "cartoons" for all that stuff we watched in the
80's as kids, "anime" for anything that could even vaguely be
construed as Japanese animation, and studio or program names for
anything else, especially if it's not in a super traditional style. I
don't, for example, usually hear people describing The Nightmare
Before Christmas, South Park, or 300 as "animation". They'll either
use a more technical term for what kind of animation is involved or
they'll say "You know, like South Park with the little cutouts". I'm
with Alys (hi, Alys!): The average person doesn't think of any of
those other styles as "animation".
--Franzi Dickson
ka...@vsuccess.com
a longtime a Spike and Mike fan, I have to say that Alys and Franzi
are right on with their explanations of usage of cartoon verses anime.
Their explanations fit in with not only how the professionals I work
with describe animated films, but also how all the kid fans I know
talk about the films and TV programs as well.
Katy @ likes Spike and Mike but draws the line at Sick and Twisted...
minoru
On 10月3日, 午前11:05, Anthony Bryant <anthony_bry...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 2008, at 8:56 PM, minoru wrote:
>
>
> > If you look into Film Genre (Wikipedia), you will find "animation" as
> > a type of movies among others, such as Action, Adventure and Thriller.
> > See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_genre
>
> Yes, as a genre. But, not all genre terms -- "action adventure," for
> example -- are used as collective terms for a movie.
>
> I don't know anyone who says "I want to see *A* science fictiion" --
> anymore than I know anyone who says "I want to see *AN* animation."
>
It's a sentence you fabricated yourself trying to prove your point.
I simply said there is a film genre called "animation."
> They are "science fiction films" or "action adventure films" or
> "animated films."
In the meanwhile, there will be an event called
International Animation Film Festival to be held
June 13, 2009. For details, see
http://www.annecy.org/home/index.php?Page_ID=2
So, you see, the term "animation film" has citizenship in
the world you are not familiar with. In other words, you just
proved to yourself and everybody that you don't even know
too well about your own mother tongue.
A language changes everyday. Furthermore, a language is
simply a communication tool to communicate with another
person. Therefore, so long as the other party knows what
you are talking about, you can call a third person a dog or
shit. It's useless to apply the rule you happen to be familiar
with as a golden rule and try to curb other person's usage
in accordance with your rule. You will be called a snob, if
you do.
Minoru Mochizuki
>
> Tony
Richard VanHouten
France, I think its name in English speaks more to its official
translation than to the status of the term "animation film" in English.
Richard VanHouten
Jim Lockhart
Thanks for all the responses to my question--I found them all useful and
informative in one way or another (no sarcasm intended).
Sarah Alys's posts were especially helpful for their depth and breadth
and because of her background, but the diversity of them in aggregate (even
Minoru's, for those who might think otherwise) provided just the sort of
insight I was looking for.
I hope I'll be able to return the kindness some time soon.
--Jim Lockhart