Patent translation question...

[Warren Smith]

Funny thing to ask after doing this for nearly 40 years....

 

In the section of the MPEP (Manual of Patent Examining Procedure) there are examples of correct wording for multiple dependent claims:

 

Claim 5. A gadget according to claims 3 or 4, further comprising ---

 

Claim 5. A gadget as in any one of the preceding claims, in which ---

 

Claim 5. A gadget as in any one of claims 1, 2, and 3, in which ---

 

Claim 3. A gadget as in either claim 1 or claim 2, further comprising ---

 

Claim 4. A gadget as in claim 2 or 3, further comprising ---

 

Claim 16. A gadget as in claims 1, 7, 12, or 15, further comprising -

 

While of course the meaning is clear to me (the dependent claim must refer to multiple independent claims individually as alternates only, and NEVER refer the group together), from a translator perspective, I am confused to why they use the plural "claims 3 or 4" instead of "claim 3 or 4." For nearly 4 decades I have always used the SINGULAR form (except when using the form in the third line above, "... any one of claims...."). "Claims 3 or 4" seems grammatically incorrect to my ear. Am I wrong in this?

 

The second to last line of the above seems inconsistent with the last line and with the first line -- do they just not care?

 

Do my colleagues usually use singular or plural in a statement such as "claim(s) 3 or 4"?

 

Thanks,

 

Warren

[Matthew Schlecht]

I write it as "claims 3 or 4" in the plural, or sometimes write it all out as "...claim 3 or claim 4...".

I have always figured that the patent lawyers would adjust those aspects to their own particular style in their final review/revision.

Matthew Schlecht, PhD
Word Alchemy Translation, Inc.
Newark, DE, USA
wordalchemytranslation.com

[Warren Smith]

Thanks, Matthew. Your "take" on this carries weight!

 

W

[Herman]

On 3/13/23 17:42, Warren Smith wrote:
> Funny thing to ask after doing this for nearly 40 years....
>
> In the section of the MPEP (Manual of Patent Examining Procedure) there
> are examples of correct wording for multiple dependent claims:
>
> Claim 5. A gadget according to claims 3 or 4, further comprising ---
>
> Claim 5. A gadget as in any one of the preceding claims, in which ---
>
> Claim 5. A gadget as in any one of claims 1, 2, and 3, in which ---
>
> Claim 3. A gadget as in either claim 1 or claim 2, further comprising ---
>
> Claim 4. A gadget as in claim 2 or 3, further comprising ---
>
> Claim 16. A gadget as in claims 1, 7, 12, or 15, further comprising -
>
> While of course the meaning is clear to me (the dependent claim must
> refer to multiple independent claims individually as alternates only,
> and NEVER refer the group together), from a translator perspective, I am
> confused to why they use the plural "claims 3 or 4" instead of "claim 3
> or 4." For nearly 4 decades I have always used the SINGULAR form (except
> when using the form in the third line above, "... any one of

> claims...."). "Claim_s_ 3 _or_ 4" seems grammatically incorrect to my

> ear. Am I wrong in this?
>

I can see how this may be grammatically wrong, but it is a common usage.
Laws also often using wording such as "articles 1 or 2".

Herman Kahn

[Jon Johanning]

When it comes to lawyers and grammar, I always assume that lawyers use a special grammar based on principles known only to them. I prefer using the grammar rest of us know, and concur with Matthew. Would that we were translating into Japanese and didn't have to worry about number at all.

Jon J.

[Philip Schnell]

I think you have it right, Warren. Classically speaking, “claims 1, 2, or 3” is a grammatically peculiar way to refer to a single claim. I think it happens because of a category confusion when people have “any one of [the group consisting of] claims 1, 2, and 3” in mind and so the plural still feels subconsciously “right” even though it’s no longer appropriate with an “or” construction. This becomes a little more apparent if you try to attach a verb to it: Claims 1, 2, or 3 is ...? Claims 1, 2, or 3 are ...?

Philip Schnell