特平

[Sneha Bhave]

Hello Yakkers,

I'm translating a patent in which there a term "特平" followed by the number as the header.
There are Google hits for the word, but they just render the Japanese text.
I could find an equivalent word for 特平 in English.

What could be the best translation for this? Is it an abbreviation of some word?

Waiting for your valuable inputs.

Regards,
Shinu

[jmarc...@comcast.net]

Bhave-san asked:

I'm translating a patent in which there a term "特平" followed by the number as the header.
There are Google hits for the word, but they just render the Japanese text.
I could find an equivalent word for 特平 in English.

What could be the best translation for this? Is it an abbreviation of some word?

Bhave-san,

It is probably just abbreviation for 特許 and 平成, but it would be nice to see more context. Is there a number after 平? If so it is going to be something like "Japanese Patent Application No. H__-______".

HTH,


John Marchioro

[Sneha Bhave]

Thank you Marchioro -san.
It would be difficult to provide you the context of the text since this term follows under the header of the document. There is a number after Hei. As you said this might be an abbrevation for the same.

Thanks for your inputs once again.

Regards
Shinu

2010/4/14 <jmarc...@comcast.net>

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[Alan Siegrist]

Sneha Bhave writes:

> I'm translating a patent in which there a term "特平" followed by the
> number as the header.

This is somewhat unusual. The most likely explanation is that this refers to
the publication number of a Kokai document.

One more typically sees the abbreviation "特開平" as the publication number
of a Kokai, in order to distinguish this from "特願平" which is the
application number or "特表平" which is the Japanese translation of a PCT
publication. There are also other possibilities.

Since "特平" is somewhat ambiguous, I suggest you might want to simply use
"Tokuhei" and include a translator's note.

Regards,

Alan Siegrist
Carmel, CA, USA

[Marc Adler]

2010/4/14 Alan Siegrist <AlanFS...@comcast.net>

This is somewhat unusual. The most likely explanation is that this refers to
the publication number of a Kokai document.

Actually, you see this a lot on the cover letters of priority certificates in the form 出証特平XX-XXXXXX.

One of my clients has instructions to translate this as "Priority Certificate No. HXX-XXXXXX."

--
Marc Adler
http://www.linkedin.com/in/adlerpacific

[菊地健一]

>This is somewhat unusual. The most likely explanation is that this

> refers to the publication number of a Kokai document.

特開平 is a most common expression for an abbreviation of

特許公開公報平成, and特開平 cannot be any other type of 公報.

However, there are many possibilities for 特平.  I'm not very

confident, but特平 is an expression that is used only locally in a

particular patent office or the like.

 

 

[Alan Siegrist]

Marc Adler writes:

> > 2010/4/14 Alan Siegrist <AlanFS...@comcast.net>
> >
> > This is somewhat unusual. The most likely explanation is that this
> > refers to the publication number of a Kokai document.
>
> Actually, you see this a lot on the cover letters of priority certificates
> in the form 出証特平XX-XXXXXX.

Well, that is certainly a possibility also.

It would be most helpful if the original poster could tell us what type of
patent document they are translating. But absent this information, I would
not want to make the assumption that this is a priority certificate.

[Marc Adler]

I'm pretty sure that's the only place I've ever seen it, but more info from the OP would be nice.

Marc Adler
www.linkedin.com/in/adlerpacific

On Apr 14, 2010 10:25 AM, "Alan Siegrist" <AlanFS...@comcast.net> wrote:

Marc Adler writes: > > 2010/4/14 Alan Siegrist <AlanFS...@comcast.net> > > > > This is somewha...

Well, that is certainly a possibility also.

It would be most helpful if the original poster could tell us what type of
patent document they are translating. But absent this information, I would
not want to make the assumption that this is a priority certificate.

Regards, Alan Siegrist Carmel, CA, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed t...

[Sneha Bhave]

Thank you all for your inputs.

I am still thinking as to what should be written.

I am exploring different options as well.

I would probably keep it as Tokuhei and give a translator's note for the same.

Regards,

Shinu

--

[Marc Adler]

On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:21 AM, Sneha Bhave <sneha...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am still thinking as to what should be written.

You could also just tell us what else it says on the document, and clear this up.

[Sneha Bhave]

At most context I could provide you is that this the header of the document and the footer has 出証特平---.

The rest of the patent has the description of the patent.

--

[Marc Adler]

2010/4/14 Sneha Bhave <sneha...@gmail.com>

 

At most context I could provide you is that this the header of the document and the footer has 出証特平---.

The rest of the patent has the description of the patent.

If it has PATENT OFFICE / JAPANESE GOVERNMENT at the very top, and "This is to certify that the annexed is a true..." in English and Japanese, followed by Date of Application, Application Number, Applicant(s) below that, and then a big signature and seal (of "Commissioner, Patent Office") at the bottom (and probably a Bates number at the very bottom), followed by 出証番号　出証特平XX-XXXXXX, then it's a priority application, and the 出証特平 can be translated "Priority Certificate No. HXX-XXXXXX".

[Alan Siegrist]

Sneha Bhave writes:

> At most context I could provide you is that this the header of the
> document and the footer has 出証特平---.

OK, terrific. Now we know that this is in fact a priority certificate and so here 出証特平 should be translated Priority Certificate No. H--- (or Hei ---).

This appears in the patent glossary here:
http://www.horsefrog.com/japanese-translator-patent/mod/glossary/view.php?id=2041&mode=cat

When 特平 appears by itself, I suppose you can just write "No. H---."

[Kirill Sereda]

Interestingly, the JPO website contains just one instance of  特平,  i.e.:

 

出願番号特平１０－１９０９３８

 

which is automatically translated as “Application No. Patent 1998-190938”.  It seems that 特平 is an abbreviation for “特許平”, as John suggested. I would translate it as “Japanese Patent No. [Western year calculated by adding 1988]-…”.

 

Kirill

[Alan Siegrist]

Kirill Sereda writes:

Interestingly, the JPO website contains just one instance of  特平,  i.e.:

 

出願番号特平１０－１９０９３８

 

Would you mind pointing us to where this appears on the JPO web site?

 

which is automatically translated as “Application No. Patent 1998-190938”.  It seems that 特平 is an abbreviation for “特許平”, as John suggested. I would translate it as “Japanese Patent No. [Western year calculated by adding 1988]-…”.

 

Well, I suppose this illustrates two things. One: never trust automatic translation.

And two: Your proposed translation of “Japanese Patent No. xxxx-xxxxxxx” is very misleading. It implies a granted patent which is completely wrong. In the case above, 出願 means a patent application number, not a granted patent.

 

Granted (or registered) Japanese patents are numbered serially, not by year, and so they are given numbers like 特許第XXXXXXX号. The presence of the year in the number above would give the astute reader a clue to the effect that this was not in fact a granted patent, but then they would not know if it is a Kokai publication number or an application number, or some other type of publication number.

 

Regards,

 

Alan Siegrist

Carmel, CA, USA

--

[Kirill Sereda]

Alan writes:

>>Would you mind pointing us to where this appears on the JPO web site?

特開2000-050447.

 

>>One: never trust automatic translation.

Thanks to your astute guidance, from now on, I’ll stop blindly trusting automatic translation.

 

>> Your proposed translation of “Japanese Patent No. xxxx-xxxxxxx” is very misleading. It implies a granted patent which is completely wrong.

Wow, do you really believe I don’t know what “出願” means? I think you completely misread what I wrote, Alan, because I was talking about the translation the OP could use, -- and in his situation the implication of a granted patent is quite reasonable.

 

Regards,

 

Kirill Sereda

[Kirill Sereda]

I wrote:

>> and in his situation the implication of a granted patent is quite reasonable

I should have written “her situation”. Sorry!

 

Kirill

[Alan Siegrist]

Kirill Sereda writes:

lan writes:

>>Would you mind pointing us to where this appears on the JPO web site?

特開2000-050447.

 

Thanks. I will look into it.

 

>>One: never trust automatic translation.

Thanks to your astute guidance, from now on, I’ll stop blindly trusting automatic translation.

 

Sorry if I implied that. I just could not understand what relevance the automatic translation has on the current question.

 

>> Your proposed translation of “Japanese Patent No. xxxx-xxxxxxx” is very misleading. It implies a granted patent which is completely wrong.

Wow, do you really believe I don’t know what “出願” means? I think you completely misread what I wrote, Alan, because I was talking about the translation the OP could use, -- and in his situation the implication of a granted patent is quite reasonable.

 

No, a granted patent is impossible. As I pointed out, granted Japanese patent numbers do not include the date, so if 平 appears in the number it cannot be a granted patent.

 

Regards,

 

Alan Siegrist

Carmel, CA, USA

--

[Kirill Sereda]

Alan writes:

>>No, a granted patent is impossible…. if 平 appears in the number it cannot be a granted patent.

Do you have any proof to substantiate your opinion, or we just have to believe it because you pointed it out to us? Alan dixit and that’s it!

 

Kirill

[Alan Siegrist]

Kirill Sereda writes:

Alan writes:

>>No, a granted patent is impossible…. if 平 appears in the number it cannot be a granted patent.

Do you have any proof to substantiate your opinion, or we just have to believe it because you pointed it out to us? Alan dixit and that’s it!

 

Please show me one example of a granted Japanese patent that has a patent number containing the year and I would be very happy to reconsider my opinion.

 

You don’t have to believe me.

 

Regards,

 

Alan Siegrist

Carmel, CA, USA

--

[Kirill Sereda]

Alan writes:

>> Please show me one example <snip>

No, Alan, first, you show me some proof, then we’ll talk.

 

>> You don’t have to believe me.

And I don’t.

 

Kirill

[Alan Siegrist]

Kirill Sereda writes:

 

>> Please show me one example <snip>

No, Alan, first, you show me some proof, then we’ll talk.

 

OK, picking a granted Japanese patent at random, let's try number 4402596, which is found by going here:

http://www.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/Tokujitu/tjsogodb.ipdl?N0000=101

Enter B as the document type and 4402596 as the number.

 

You will see that the patent number contains no year, but rather it is simply given as 特許第4402596号.

 

Now please offer a counterexample. Just one will do.

 

Regards,

 

Alan Siegrist

Carmel, CA, USA

--

[Kirill Sereda]

Alan, your example does _disprove_ the possibility that  特平 may refer to a granted patent. Since you can’t provide any definitive proof to support your opinion, I would like to stop the discussion at this point and do something more productive with my time.

 

Kirill

[Kirill Sereda]

>>Alan, your example does _disprove_ the possibility

does NOT disprove

[Alan Siegrist]

Kirill Sereda writes:

> Alan, your example does _disprove_ the possibility that 特平 may refer to
> a granted patent. Since you can't provide any definitive proof to support
> your opinion, I would like to stop the discussion at this point and do
> something more productive with my time.

I have no interest in wasting your time. But if you will humor me, I cannot understand your logic.

On the one hand you admit that my example disproves the possibility of tokuhei referring to a granted patent.

But on the other hand you say that I have not provided any definitive proof of my opinion.

I cannot see how logic may support both positions simultaneously.

Sorry, but I am confused.

[Alan Siegrist]

Kirill Sereda writes:

> >>Alan, your example does _disprove_ the possibility
> does NOT disprove

Thank you for the correction. At least now your logic is reasonable.

At that, I will end the discussion.

[Kirill Sereda]

Alan writes:
>>On the one hand you admit that my example disproves the possibility of tokuhei referring to a granted patent.

I intended to write "does not disprove", but I omitted the particle "not" while typing my response. I've already sent a correction.

I hope you understand the logic now and we can put the matter to rest.

Kirill