Is John Doe related to Jane Doe?

[Mika J.]

This may be an idle question, but I have a nagging suspicion that:

1. John Doe and Jane Doe are not assumed to be related to each other.

2. If translated as 山田太郎 and 山田花子, the output adds an assumption that they are both from the same family.

I'm pretty certain about the Japanese interpretation of the #2 above, but what about the #1 in English? 

Mika Jarmusz 

清水美香
 

[Kirill Sereda]

This article appears to suggest that the family names might be arbitrary (tilde):

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E4%BB%AE%E5%90%8D_(%E4%BA%BA%E5%90%8D)

 

Kirill Sereda

[Mika J.]

なるほど。 〜太郎と 〜花子なら家族関係を気にする必要はないですね！

Thank you, Kirill.

Mika Jarmusz 

清水美香
 

[Fred Uleman]

That said, they do not need to be 山田. They could just as easily be, if this is part of an advertisement, whatever company is paying for the ad. For example, 日立太郎 or 三井花子. This shows up a lot on how-to-fill-out-the-form explanations, for example.

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Fred Uleman

[Mika Gmail]

True, and no problem there. I just didn’t like the fact that both John and Jane having the same last name.  Oh well.  It is what it is.

Mika Jarmusz 🌎

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[Jens Wilkinson]

> On Apr 1, 2018, at 3:29, Mika J. <mik...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This may be an idle question, but I have a nagging suspicion that:
>
> 1. John Doe and Jane Doe are not assumed to be related to each other.
>

Yes, I think that’s correct. John or Jane Doe are used to mean that you don’t know the name, and I’ve never assumed that they are related.

Jens Wilkinson

[Christopher Frederick]

Hi Mika,

Although not as common, it appears that "Roe" can also be used in place of "Doe". This naming convention was actually used in the famous "Roe v. Wade" Supreme Court case.

Hope this helps!

Christopher Frederick

[Mika J.]

Christopher, that would be useful when translating into English.

Jens, thank you validating my understanding.  I thought so too.

 

Mika Jarmusz 

清水美香
 

On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 6:47 PM, 'Christopher Frederick' via Honyaku E<>J translation list <hon...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Mika,

Although not as common, it appears that "Roe" can also be used in place of "Doe". This naming convention was actually used in the famous "Roe v. Wade" Supreme Court case.

Hope this helps!

Christopher Frederick

On 1 Apr 2018, at 10:26, Mika Gmail wrote:

True, and no problem there. I just didn’t like the fact that both John and Jane having the same last name.  Oh well.  It is what it is.

Mika Jarmusz 🌎

On Mar 31, 2018, at 5:00 PM, Fred Uleman <ful...@jpnres.com> wrote:

That said, they do not need to be 山田. They could just as easily be, if this is part of an advertisement, whatever company is paying for the ad. For example, 日立太郎 or 三井花子. This shows up a lot on how-to-fill-out-the-form explanations, for example.

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Fred Uleman

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[Alan Siegrist]

I have not thought deeply about this before, but it occurs to me that “John Doe” and “Jane Doe” are not the only names that could be chosen as a placeholder to refer to people whose real names are not known. As mentioned by Christopher Frederick, “Jane Roe” could also have been used as the name of the woman, for example. Or the man could be called “Richard Roe,” who would not be presumed to be related to “Jane Doe.”  

 

If two dead bodies, those of a man and woman, are found together, they might be called “John Doe” and “Jane Doe” until they are identified. Naturally the relationship between the two people is not known, but someone might have a suspicion that they are related as man and wife or brother and sister, or whatever.

 

The use of “Doe” as the surname of both people might in fact suggest that the writer suspects that the two people might be related, although this might be mere conjecture on the part of the writer.

 

Best,

 

Alan Siegrist

Orinda, CA, USA

[John Stroman]

Mika,

Have you looked at the entry for John Doe on Wikipedia?

The historical background might answer your question.

Regards,

John Stroman​

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[Richard VanHouten]

On occasion, when multiple anonymous persons are referred to in a legal
setting, they may be referred to as John Does 1 through 5 (or however
many there are.) No relation is implied.

I have no idea how similar cases are handled in Japanese.

Richard VanHouten

>> email to honyaku+u...@googlegroups.com.

[Mika J.]

I'm happy to report that my editor accepted the rendition of 山田太郎 and 田中花子.

Since it is obvious in our source (English) text that John and Jane are not related in our case, we came to a 一件落着.

Thank you everyone for chiming in!

Mika Jarmusz 

清水美香
 

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[Edward Lipsett | Intercom]

A bit late, but another comment by a practicing attorney in the US:

... in the handful of times I have seen John and Jane Doe in the same indictment or complaint they are invariably not related by blood or marriage. If they were, likely the indictment or complaint would say that in some fashion. By saying nothing further the implication to me as a lawyer reading the document is that they are unrelated by blood or marriage.

Edward Lipsett

[Mika J.]

Excellent. That's exactly what I wanted to hear.  Thank you!

Mika Jarmusz 

清水美香
 

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