"gas engine" vs. "gasoline engine"

[Marc Adler]

The document I'm working on right now mentions in passing that there
is a difference between a ガスエンジン and a ガソリンエンジン. Could this be
gasoline vs. diesel engines?

Thanks in advance.

--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com

[Richard VanHouten]

Marc Adler wrote:
> The document I'm working on right now mentions in passing that there
> is a difference between a ガスエンジン and a ガソリンエンジン. Could this be
> gasoline vs. diesel engines?
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

How about natural gas vs. gasoline engines?

[Marc Adler]

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Richard VanHouten <ric...@citlink.net> wrote:

> How about natural gas vs. gasoline engines?

Well, the overall context is turbochargers which deliver compressed
air. Would natural gas vs. gasoline be relevant in that case?

--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com

[Richard VanHouten]

Marc Adler wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Richard VanHouten <ric...@citlink.net> wrote:
>
>> How about natural gas vs. gasoline engines?
>
> Well, the overall context is turbochargers which deliver compressed
> air. Would natural gas vs. gasoline be relevant in that case?
>

Google returns over 400,000 hits for "natural gas" turbochargers, so I
don't see why not.

[Kirill Sereda]

Sure, gasoline engines natural gas engines used in cars are very similar and
can be turbo-charged.

k

[Adam Rice]

Marc Adler wrote:

>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Richard VanHouten
> <ric...@citlink.net> wrote:
>
>> How about natural gas vs. gasoline engines?
>
> Well, the overall context is turbochargers which deliver compressed
> air. Would natural gas vs. gasoline be relevant in that case?

Best as I can tell, ガスエンジン is an engine that runs on
natural gas. I think the turbocharger is a red herring (at least as
far as this distinction goes). In the auto trade turbocharging aren't
said to deliver compressed air, but "forced-air induction" (not that
there's any difference. And never mind the fact that superchargers in
German are called "kompressors").

Adam Rice :: Austin TX USA :: adam...@8stars.org :: http://8stars.org

[Stephen A. Carter]

On 09/03/06 07:19, Adam Rice wrote:
> Best as I can tell, ガスエンジン is an engine that runs on
> natural gas.

FWIW, the gas-engine industrial equipment I'm familiar with all runs on
LP gas (propane), not natural gas (methane).

--
Stephen A. Carter
sca...@hticn.com
Nagoya, Japan

[Stephen A. Carter]

On 09/03/06 10:28, Stephen A. Carter wrote:
> FWIW, the gas-engine industrial equipment I'm familiar with all runs on
> LP gas (propane), not natural gas (methane).

Viz. Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane#Vehicle_fuel

-----
Vehicle fuel
Main article: Autogas

Propane is also being used increasingly for vehicle fuels. In the U.S.,
190,000 on-road vehicles use propane, and 450,000 forklifts use it for
power. It is the third most popular vehicle fuel in America, behind
gasoline and diesel. In other parts of the world, propane used in
vehicles is known as autogas. About 9 million vehicles worldwide use
autogas.
-----

[John Brannan]

Stephen A. Carter wrote:
> Vehicle fuel
> Main article: Autogas
>
> Propane is also being used increasingly for vehicle fuels. In the U.S.,
> 190,000 on-road vehicles use propane, and 450,000 forklifts use it for
> power. It is the third most popular vehicle fuel in America, behind
> gasoline and diesel. In other parts of the world, propane used in
> vehicles is known as autogas. About 9 million vehicles worldwide use
> autogas.
>

Um, not sure about this. "Autogas" in Australia is liquid-petroleum gas
(LPG). (Unless LPG and propane are the same thing...)

John Brannan

------------
Canberra, Australia
Email: john.b...@netspeed.com.au
Phone: (+612) 6258 6038 Fax: (+612) 6258 6238

[Stephen A. Carter]

On 09/03/06 12:33, John Brannan wrote:
> Um, not sure about this. "Autogas" in Australia is liquid-petroleum gas
> (LPG). (Unless LPG and propane are the same thing...)

They are.

[John Brannan]

Stephen A. Carter wrote:
> On 09/03/06 12:33, John Brannan wrote:
>
>> Um, not sure about this. "Autogas" in Australia is liquid-petroleum gas
>> (LPG). (Unless LPG and propane are the same thing...)
>>
>
> They are.
>
>

Yeah? So my car runs on propane! Well I'll be...

John Brannan
(never was any good at chemistry)

[Marc Adler]

On Thu, Mar 5, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Kirill Sereda <kvse...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Sure, gasoline engines natural gas engines used in cars are very similar and
> can be turbo-charged.

Thanks to you and everyone! I went with gasoline and natural gas.

--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com

[Wolfgang Bechstein]

Marc Adler wrote:

> Thanks to you and everyone! I went with gasoline and natural gas.

Not that I'm picking on you, Marc, but didn't you see Stephen Carter's
contribution which questioned the "natural"? In fact, I think the
situation is even more complicated than Stephen indicated, since both
Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) and Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) are used
as vehicle fuels, the former (more common one) mostly in passenger cars
and the latter in larger vehicles such as trucks and buses. This page
explains it quite well:

http://www.envocare.co.uk/lpg_lng_cng.htm

So, if you only have ガスエンジン to go on, limiting it to "natural gas"
may not be appropriate, I think.

Wolfgang Bechstein

[Marc Adler]

On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Wolfgang Bechstein
<bech...@netprisma.com> wrote:

> Not that I'm picking on you, Marc, but didn't you see Stephen Carter's
> contribution which questioned the "natural"? In fact, I think the

I did. However, the phrase is just a passing reference in the
document, irrelevant to the larger picture, so I thought going with
more detail than the original provided would be inappropriate. Also,
there are many Google references for "natural gas" engines which are
turbocharged by compressing air, which is basically what the document
is all about.

I can still contact the client, if you think there's some reason
"natural gas" is absolutely wrong.

--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com

[Alan Siegrist]

Wolfgang Bechstein writes:

I believe "natural gas" is the general name in English for all hydrocarbons
that are extracted from the earth or could be and that are gaseous at normal
temperature and pressure, so this is really a large category that includes
propane, butane, methane and the various other gaseous hydrocarbons
contained in the fuels you mention. There is even the strange bird called
"synthetic natural gas" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one) which is also
included in the "natural gas" category.

And even in liquefied form, they are still called "natural gas" although
they are of course no longer gases. (Don't shoot me -- I'm only the
messenger.)

So I think a "natural gas engine" is appropriate, since this does not put
any restrictions upon the exact fuel or mixture of hydrocarbons used.

Regards,

Alan Siegrist
Orinda, CA, USA

[Stephen A. Carter]

Alan Siegrist wrote:
> I believe "natural gas" is the general name in English for all hydrocarbons
> that are extracted from the earth or could be and that are gaseous at normal
> temperature and pressure, so this is really a large category that includes
> propane, butane, methane and the various other gaseous hydrocarbons
> contained in the fuels you mention.

That might be a layman's logical take, but in reality, "natural gas" is
methane-based.

Didn't we go over this already?

> There is even the strange bird called
> "synthetic natural gas" (an oxymoron if I ever heard one)

That should be a clue that the phrase means something other than "any
old naturally occurring gas," and in fact, it means "fuel gas
synthesized through methanation."

If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe the Natural Gas Association:

http://www.naturalgas.org/overview/background.asp

"In its purest form, such as the natural gas that is delivered to your
home, it is almost pure methane."

Or maybe the American Gas Association:

http://www.aga.org/Kc/aboutnaturalgas/glossary/default.htm?id={8386A285-8D17-48D9-BF16-DB7F058B61A6}

"Methane (CH4) -- The first of the paraffin series of hydrocarbons. The
chief constituent of natural gas."

http://www.aga.org/Kc/aboutnaturalgas/glossary/default.htm?id={230733AB-3A50-4FCB-9242-8468049EF134}

"Gas, Natural -- A naturally occurring mixture of hydrocarbon and
nonhydrocarbon gases found in porous geologic formations beneath the
earth's surface, often in association with petroleum. The principal
constituent is methane."

So if it's not principally methane, it's not natural gas.

And here's how the American Gas Association defines LP gas:

"Gas, Liquefied Petroleum (LPG) -- A gas containing certain specific
hydrocarbons which are gaseous under normal atmospheric conditions but
can be liquefied under moderate pressure at normal temperatures. Propane
and butane are the principal examples."

[Wolfgang Bechstein]

Marc Adler wrote:

> I can still contact the client, if you think there's some reason
> "natural gas" is absolutely wrong.

No, it's certainly not that clear-cut, and in the light of Alan's
contribution, I guess you are fine.

Wolfgang Bechstein

[Alan Siegrist]

Stephen,

I understand what you are saying. The most common non-gasoline and
non-diesel fuel for engines is probably propane (LP gas) right now, but
there are definitely engines that run on natural gas (mostly methane as you
note) as well as other gases.

If we want to include all of these alternative fuels and not give the
impression that we are limiting the term to those that run only on what is
normally known as natural gas (methane), perhaps it might be best to use an
alternative term such as "gaseous fueled engines" which does get a small but
respectable number of hits.

[kanji saito]

確かにLPGの方が多いですが、CNG（methene）で走る車もあります。
つい最近までニュージーランドでは珍しくなかったですし。

AUTO LPG & CNG GAS CONVERSION KITS
http://www.unitaxgasequipment.com/auto_lpg_cng_valve.htm

CNG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressed_natural_gas

斉藤　完治