Translation battles in the anime fansubbing community (Japan Probe)
Wataru Tenga
http://www.japanprobe.com/?p=1985
wataru
Evan Emswiler
I discovered after translating some video games that they had fan
translations available on the net. Since I was very familiar with the
source material, I could judge the quality of these translations
better than most. In general, they tend to be overly literal and often
miss out on cultural references or misinterpret figures of speech. For
example, I can't help but think that both versions of the first
example on that page stumbled over the phrase 泣く子も黙る. Still, when you
consider that they're mostly done by student amateurs for no pay, you
have to give them credit. I'm sure it's a great learning experience
for them. I wonder if many of these fan translators ever go on to do
it professionally.
Evan Emswiler
Michael House
[...]
Still, when you
>consider that they're mostly done by student amateurs for no pay, you
>have to give them credit. I'm sure it's a great learning experience
>for them. I wonder if many of these fan translators ever go on to do
>it professionally.
I did, a long time ago. And it was a learning experience, eventually.
Most of what I learned was the basics of how much I thought I knew
but really didn't--a study course that I've been on ever since. Just a
point on the graph...
--
Be Seeing You...
--Michael House, mac...@gol.com
Opinions expressed are my own unless otherwise specified.
"Perfection is achieved only by institutions on the point of collapse."
--C. Northcote Parkinson
Nora Stevens Heath
> I discovered after translating some video games that they had fan
> translations available on the net. Since I was very familiar with the
> source material, I could judge the quality of these translations
> better than most. In general, they tend to be overly literal and often
> miss out on cultural references or misinterpret figures of speech.
I'll never forget a fan-written guide for a Japanese-only video game
that parsed a snotty prince's exlamation of フン！ as "Excrement!" Not
everything is in the dictionary.
> I wonder if many of these fan translators ever go on to do it
> professionally.
I did, though I'd only translated a couple games/parts of games before
hitting the big time (heh).
Nora
--
Nora Stevens Heath <no...@fumizuki.com>
J-E translations: http://www.fumizuki.com/
Alan Siegrist
> For example, I can't help but think that both versions of the first
> example on that page stumbled over the phrase 泣く子も黙る.
I think you are quite right. The phrase is used to indicate just how
terrifying a presence the person is, as if the mere mention of the name of
the person is sufficient to make even a child stop crying. I think parents
everywhere have used tactics on the order of "If you don't stop crying, the
bogeyman (Tonton Macoute, etc.) will get you."
Regards,
Alan Siegrist
Orinda, CA, USA
AlanFS...@Comcast.net
Marc Adler
> I'll never forget a fan-written guide for a Japanese-only video game
> that parsed a snotty prince's exlamation of フン！ as "Excrement!" Not
> everything is in the dictionary.
If the exclamation is actually "フン！", then wouldn't it be appropriate
to translate it as "excrement!" since the original is a non-existent
high-register (and funny) version of "くそ！" which would be "shit!"?
I like it!
--
Marc Adler
Austin, TX
Michael Hendry
> If the exclamation is actually "フン！", then wouldn't it be appropriate
> to translate it as "excrement!" since the original is a non-existent
> high-register (and funny) version of "くそ！" which would be "shit!"?
I think Nora is talking about ふん which Edict gives as "(int,n)
hmm/humph/huh/pshaw/pish." Rather than an exclamation, it's more like a
noisy sigh. I don't know the etymology of the word, but I don't think shit
or excrement are appropriate in this context.
Michael Hendry, in Newcastle Australia
Wolfgang Bechstein
Marc Adler
> I think Nora is talking about ふん which Edict gives as "(int,n)
> hmm/humph/huh/pshaw/pish." Rather than an exclamation, it's more like a
> noisy sigh. I don't know the etymology of the word, but I don't think shit
> or excrement are appropriate in this context.
Well, we'd need the context for this one, but if it is indeed ふん as in
"hmmm," then the translator really would have had to be out of his depth
to miss the context.
Either way, I like フン！ qua くそ！
Nora Stevens Heath
> Well, we'd need the context for this one, but if it is indeed ふん as in
> "hmmm," then the translator really would have had to be out of his depth
> to miss the context.
It was definitely a "Hmph!" moment--not a くそ！ one. It was spoken by
a snotty, spoiled boy prince and directed at a grubby son-of-a-fisherman
type kid. When I saw it in-game (before I read the bad translation in
the fan guide), I read it as "Hmph!" without a second thought.
Warren Smith
I was well into my career before I let someone talk me into localizing some
version of Tony Hawk for the Game Boy. It was the lowest paying couple of
weeks of the previous decade. I had no idea how difficult localizing pop
culture could be. It ended up quite an interesting anthropological study of
the American teenager. I was forced to constantly query my teenage son --
"What do you call it when you 'fall down' when riding a skateboard? 20 years
ago we called it 'wiping out...' 'Bail'? Are you SURE about that?"
My son thought it was cool when I came back from the video store with a
stack of similar games for research. It was one of the few times I actually
got to be "cool" in the eyes of my teenager, and he thought he had the
ultimate bragging rights with his jr. high school colleagues.
The Tony Hawk job was only eclipsed by the time I ended up interpreting for
the visiting artists during the national Duel Masters promotional tour,
where I made it a condition of my employment that my son got to be part of
the volunteer staff at the promotional events each weekend... The pay wasn't
great but you can't get any better compensation than visiting a different
city (Orlando, Dallas, Long Beach, Minneapolis, etc.) each weekend with your
teenage son, hanging out in Nerdvana with folks from Wizards of the Coast.
For one summer I was elevated to hero status in the eyes of my son.... In a
sense it was a bit demeaning -- a PhD from Harvard interpreting for a guy in
a mall as he signed his name on kiddies playing cards -- but in another
sense it was the pinnacle of my career. I would not have missed it for
anything.
Warren
Anthony Bryant
Don't you think "hmph!" would be better, since that's what "フ
ン！" is?
Tony
Jeremiah Bourque
> I wonder if many of these fan translators ever go on to do
> it professionally.
Apparently it's happened a lot. Not just translation but US anime
localization in general. Nowadays, a lot more people aspire to that but
never make it. But some do.
Jeremiah Bourque
(Novels & manga J>E translation)
mroe...@gmail.com
I had a friend who translated じゃあな！as "Well, a hole!"
日本に住んだこと無いなら、翻訳しない方がいいんじゃない？でも、無学の大学生が居ないと、オタクが"fan-subbed"アニメ見られないよね？無
料でアニメや漫画を訳してなかったら、僕たちにもっと仕事があればいいのにな。残念。。。というけど、本当は翻訳の仕事をやったこと無いんだから、文句
は言えないな。昔、"fan-subs"を見てたしね。。。恥ずかしい。
摩周
Nora Stevens Heath
> I had a friend who translated じゃあな！as "Well, a hole!"
I once had to edit a video game script where じゃあな！ was translated
as "Back in the hole!" despite a glossary offering suggesting perfectly
lovely English renditions like "Ciao!" and "Peace out!" Because the
translation was so bad (it was done by someone whose native language was
neither English nor Japanese), I strongly suspected the translator had
parsed it as including the word 穴, as your friend had.
ericfe...@excite.co.jp
I've seen a few such fansubs before (partially due to my younger brother being interested in Japanese animation) and I remember one specific film being HORRIBLY mistranslated. I can't remember many examples, but the "translator" kept misunderstanding a lot of very basic terms. For example, someone shouted something like あいつは裏切り者だ！ and the response was 違う。あいつは俺らの味方じゃねーか！ The fansub was like "He's a traitor!" and "You're wrong! That's just your point of view!" (he probably imagined 味方 as 見方).
As for the website in the original post, I call some of those "half-translations." If you leave Japanese words such as "sama" or "sen-nin" (as I saw in an animation my brother watched), you haven't translated the entire text. Something like "Ichigo-kun, you're a shinigami! Use your zanpakutou!" would be a great example of a lazily half-translated piece of slop. A half-English half-Japanese abomination (okay, that's going a little overboard). These kinds of things are rampant in that fansubbing community and the reason is, as many people mentioned, the fansubbers are inexperienced, most likely haven't been to Japan, and haven't studied Japanese to an advanced level yet.
Just my comments on the issue.
Eric
Jacqueline W
On Jun 13, 4:27 pm, <ericfetter...@excite.co.jp> wrote:
> ...
>
> As for the website in the original post, I call some of those "half-translations." If you leave Japanese words such as "sama" or "sen-nin" (as I saw in an animation my brother watched), you haven't translated the entire text. Something like "Ichigo-kun, you're a shinigami! Use your zanpakutou!" would be a great example of a lazily half-translated piece of slop. A half-English half-Japanese abomination (okay, that's going a little overboard). These kinds of things are rampant in that fansubbing community and the reason is, as many people mentioned, the fansubbers are inexperienced, most likely haven't been to Japan, and haven't studied Japanese to an advanced level yet.
>
> Just my comments on the issue.
>
> Eric
Just thought I'd add... I don't think that just because a translator
came out with something like the line, "Ichigo-kun, you're a
shinigami! Use your zanpakutou!", that it is necessarily a result of
their inexperience and/or laziness.
In many cases, fans of the series or of the fansubbers explicitly
express a desire for the translations to preserve some of what they
believe to be the original meaning of the source text. This they feel
would be done exactly by leaving words intact such as "shinigami" or
"zanpakutou". I think this is because it is thought that translating
such words into English would sound tacky, and ultimately less
natural. And this is not necessarily because the translation may make
it sound unnatural, mind you, but because these fans already have that
knowledge of what words like "-sama" and "shinigami" mean, and they
hate to see it in a translation they don't agree with. Of course you
shouldn't just change your translation in order to indulge a few fans,
but I think it depends on how much of the target audience they make
up. After all they're the ones who are going to be reading your work!
I've seen commentary where fans and reviews have openly criticized
"overzealous" translation, suggesting instead that some words should
be left in their romanized Japanese form. While I am far from one of
these, I admit I also prefer to see such things such as titles left
behind a person's name in manga and in anime translations.
Just my two cents,
Jacqueline
Frode Aleksandersen
realize that these fan translations actually have an effect on the
professional and commercial market. In manga for instance honorifics are not
only accepted, but actually demanded by the customers these days - those
very same fans who download manga scans and fansubs also buy the manga and
anime on DVD. It's not exactly prevalent in anime yet (just one company
releasing titles with honorifics intact), but for manga it's practically
become jargon.
/frode
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21:42
Anthony Bryant
On Jun 13, 2007, at 5:31 AM, Jacqueline W wrote:
>
> In many cases, fans of the series or of the fansubbers explicitly
> express a desire for the translations to preserve some of what they
> believe to be the original meaning of the source text. This they feel
> would be done exactly by leaving words intact such as "shinigami" or
> "zanpakutou". I think this is because it is thought that translating
> such words into English would sound tacky, and ultimately less
> natural. And this is not necessarily because the translation may make
> it sound unnatural, mind you, but because these fans already have that
> knowledge of what words like "-sama" and "shinigami" mean, and they
> hate to see it in a translation they don't agree with. Of course you
> shouldn't just change your translation in order to indulge a few fans,
> but I think it depends on how much of the target audience they make
> up. After all they're the ones who are going to be reading your work!
> I've seen commentary where fans and reviews have openly criticized
> "overzealous" translation, suggesting instead that some words should
> be left in their romanized Japanese form. While I am far from one of
> these, I admit I also prefer to see such things such as titles left
> behind a person's name in manga and in anime translations.
For the record, I am 100 percent i agreement with this. There are few
things I hate more than attempts to translate Japanese honorifics.
Sama does not mean "Sir (XYZ) nor "Lord (XYZ)." But they *DO* provide
important relationship/milieu context. I also particularly dislike
attempts at shorthand (e.g., stuff in subtitles) adhoc translations
for difficult concepts like "shinigami" or "byakkou" and so on. I'd
rather see them left in italics like the unique cultural elements
they are -- or would one also prefer "sake" be translated as "[rice]
wine," "sushi" as "vinegared rice [with other things]," and "shogun"
as "supreme military commander"?
Admittedly, it's a fine line. Some decent fansubbers provide culture
notes for things like that. Others hope viewers are either already
familiar enough with Japaese culture, or intelligent enough to look
up words they don't know.
Tony
Warren Smith
There are few things I hate more than attempts to translate Japanese
honorifics.
Sama does not mean "Sir (XYZ) nor "Lord (XYZ)."
-------------------
フン
I had a short exchange with a gamer about some of the screenshots in the
original posting (wherein one left in the "Sama" and two did not). From the
particular gamer's perspective (one who is very familiar with the game in
question, the one that did NOT use a "localized" (not "translated")
honorific was the least preferred (as the use of "The Great," or whatever it
was, was most consistent with the character's personality in the context.)
While I have been known as the king of chokuyaku, in anime, computer games,
etc., often the point is NOT to provide a "translation," but to provide an
entertaining experience to the customer. Some customers (especially those
that fancy themselves as knowing some Japanese) pretend to want strict
chokuyaku (which , in my opinion, may not be as much because they want
chokuyaku as it is because they relish the opportunity to show off to their
friends that they have found a "mistake" in the localization). Other
customers want a smoother product that is more palatable to the masses. I
doubt that it is possible to satisfy both camps. Because of this, I think
that there will often be more than one translation for many works from
Japan, with futile debate about which one is "better."
Personally, while I choose to be quite chokuyaku in my translations of
patents for litigation, I was very impressed once when I saw a Pokemon
cartoon, or Sailor Moon, or some such anime, and the character said
something about eating "popcorn balls" while clearly eating onigiri. Clearly
the show was trying to be accessible to very young American kids who lacked
cultural understanding. Was it a good translation? Depends who you ask, I
guess.
In response to the link that was originally posted, this non-translator
wrote the following:
-----------------
It shows that the proper background is necessary for a good translation.
In this case, Laharl is indeed a prince, as the son of king Kriechefscoy.
(He's from Disgaea, so I know him.) Sama probably wouldn't be translated as
"Prince" in all instances, but in the Disgaea game, Laharl always refers to
himself as "the Great Prince Laharl."
Also, if I recognize the situation, Laharl is in the process of telling
Flonne he's from the royal family. In the original Japanese, I'll bet Laharl
is probably telling Flonne he's Laharl-sama as opposed to Laharl-san. (Which
would explain why, in the second sub, sama is in all caps.) If the intent of
the sentence is to communicate "I have a title," then "Prince Laharl" makes
more sense as a translation than "The Great Laharl" because it's easy to
call oneself great, but not as easy to call oneself a prince.
Looking at the youtube posting,, I think "The great" would probably be the
best translation, because Laharl is upset that Flonne didn't use the correct
title. (Flonne called him San instead of Sama.) To Americans, "The great" is
an easier title to ignore than "Prince" (For the reasons mentioned in the
last E-mail) so that's how I would adapt "Sama." Of course, I'm no
translator.
------------
Warren
Jeremiah Bourque
has complained to me in the past about fansubbers leaving "kisama"
untranslated.
...
No, seriously...
Almost as good was my hearing about a group that considered requiring
viewers to understand the meaning of -tachi so that it too could be left
untranslated. The proposal was shot down.
General rule I have learned about the entertainment business: when
people read English subtitles, they expect the Japanese (or any other
foreign language) to actually be translated. If they could understand it
in raw Japanese they wouldn't need subtitles to begin with.
Jeremiah Bourque
Alan Siegrist
> I also particularly dislike
> attempts at shorthand (e.g., stuff in subtitles) adhoc translations
> for difficult concepts like "shinigami" or "byakkou" and so on.
I think this is an excellent illustration for why simply Romanizing such
obscure references is often not an effective means of translation. Few
people, even Japanese people, will realize that _byakkou_ is a reference to
白鵠, also read _shiramidori_, a literary term for a white bird of legendary
beauty, perhaps a type of swan. Unfortunately, the 白鵠 is so obscure that
it is not in most dictionaries, so anyone attempting to determine what
"byakkou" refers to will most likely be stymied. Using _byakkou_ in
Romanization like this also invites confusion with _byakko_, which could
mean either 白狐 (a white fox) or 白虎 (a white tiger).
So ultimately, using _byakkou_ in Romanization conveys either no information
or misleading information to the consumer of the translation. Changing this
to "white swan" or such conveys at least some useful information to the
reader, which I hope is the purpose of a translation.
Marc Adler
> obscure references is often not an effective means of translation. Few
> people, even Japanese people, will realize that _byakkou_ is a reference to
> 白鵠, also read _shiramidori_, a literary term for a white bird of legendary
> beauty, perhaps a type of swan. Unfortunately, the 白鵠 is so obscure that
Why do you think that byakkou refers to 白鵠 in a manga context?
Anthony Bryant
Hmmm.
Actually, I *was* referring to 白虎, but it is not *any* white
tiger, it is a very specific one in terms of geomantic myth (being
one of the guardians of a compass point). Any "normal" white tiger is
a shiroi tora (or such is my understanding).
Yeah, I'm kinda into onmyou stuff right now. ;)
Tony
Alan Siegrist
> > _byakkou_ is a reference to 白鵠
>
> Why do you think that byakkou refers to 白鵠 in a manga context?
Well, I am not exactly sure what Tony was referring to, but I am guessing
that he was talking about the name of one of the "oversouls" from Shaman
King. The name of that oversoul was スピリット・オブ・ソード白鵠, if I am
not mistaken.
Do you think it refers to something else? If so, what?
Alan Siegrist
> > Using _byakkou_ in
> > Romanization like this also invites confusion with _byakko_, which
> > could mean either 白狐 (a white fox) or 白虎 (a white tiger).
>
> Hmmm.
>
> Actually, I *was* referring to 白虎
Then it should be _byakko_ not _byakkou_. I think you have illustrated my
point. If you are going to use Romanization, I think it is important to at
least try to spell it right to avoid sending people off on wild goose
chases.
> but it is not *any* white
> tiger, it is a very specific one in terms of geomantic myth (being
> one of the guardians of a compass point).
I think "White Tiger" is sufficient to allow people that are reasonably
familiar with Chinese astrology to realize that the White Tiger refers to
one of the Chinese constellations.
If you are writing in English, using "White Tiger" instead of _byakko_ also
has the advantage of being able to convey the Chinese cultural associations
to Chinese people who can read English but may not be familiar with
Japanese.
Marc Adler
> Do you think it refers to something else? If so, what?
No, I was wondering where you got this arcane information. I just didn't
pin you as a manga-reader.
Alan Siegrist
> No, I was wondering where you got this arcane information. I just didn't
> pin you as a manga-reader.
Well, guess again. I used to read various types of manga when I was learning
Japanese (I loved Urusei Yatsura in particular), although I can't seem to
find the time to read much lately. I have translated the in-game text for
many video games, and in this work I found a lot of references from anime
and manga, so I have to look around to figure them out.
Franzi
> Hmmm.
>
> Actually, I *was* referring to 白虎, but it is not *any* white
> tiger, it is a very specific one in terms of geomantic myth
I've heard a large number of American manga/anime fans remarking on
how one series or another "stole" the byakko/seiryuu/suzaku/genbu
etc. characters from another. (Most recently, I heard this
accusation leveled at the Onmyouji movies by fans of Fushigi Yuugi,
if anyone is curious.) Leaving the names in Japanese obviously
helped viewers notice that there was a connection between the various
white tigers, but I'm not sure it actually added much to their
understanding of onmyou jargon.
A number of fan translations I've read seem to be trying to give the
reader/viewer the feeling of being able to understand the original
Japanese by translating as little as possible. (I'm also basing this
on the translators' own comments about their stylistic choices.)
This strikes me as self-indulgent nonsense, but I suppose that's what
their audience wants.
--Franzi
ericfe...@excite.co.jp
Very good point there. Someone else mentioned that subtitles are made because the viewers do not understand Japanese. I've always been of the philosophy of putting everything into English that can be put into English unless ABSOLUTELY necessary (for example, with words like "samurai," "ninja," "sushi," "tenpura," etc. And, even then, I would consider finding English words to use instead). People might say "Hey, this concept is native to Japanese and can't be found in English." If so, then approximate it to English. For example, the "wabi" and "sabi" idea may be native to Japanese, but there is no need to suddenly stop your animation and spend a minute explaining the concept when you can just get something close to it in English. You'd end up doing that for everything from "aishuu" to the perception of "semi" in Japan or the history of "onsen."
Leaving things in romaji can really hurt the reader/viewer's understanding. For example, the viewer might see an animation with "white tiger" and say "No, it's byakko! It doesn't mean 'white tiger'! That's just his name!" But that comes from a lack of understanding of the terms. You get a bunch of people who don't understand Japanese words using words that they think were uniquely created specifically for one animation series. They just come across as a bunch of cool-sounding foreign words that they only associate with images in an animation but not with any specific meaning. Using my previous example, I'm sure there are a lot of animation fans out there that think Death Note stole the "shinigami" concept from Bleach, because they don't understand that "shinigami" is a completely regular Japanese word.
And, if you're going to put "-sama," "-san," "-kun," and "-chan" in the subtitles, you have to realize that what you're writing ISN'T English, but a very very basic element of Japanese. You might as well just throw "da yo," "da ze," "da be," "da ne," "daro," "deshou," and such words because English "doesn't have such word endings." Or, because you don't want to miss the subtleties of the original Japanese, you should include the many different words for "I" and "you": "ore," "washi," "atashi," "watakushi," "boku," "kono oresama," "wagahai," "watashi," "sessha," (Hey, the viewers must understand that he's emphasizing that he's a samurai, right?) "omae," "omee," "temee," "anata," etc. Then again, the people making these subtitles have forgotten that the viewers have ears and don't need it spelled out in front of them. If they want those words, fine. They can heard them. The "we have to explain the subtleties" argument doesn't have any end. I'd say 98% of the words in an animation can be put into English
And you're not making these "subtitles" correctly if you're requiring your audience to have an understanding of Japanese grammar and unimportant words (why does the audience have to know the words for "purple crystal" or "magical barrier"?)
Just my two cents.
Eric
Akebono Translation Service
Dear Franzi,
> A number of fan translations I've read seem to be trying to give the
> reader/viewer the feeling of being able to understand the original
> Japanese by translating as little as possible.
It's a well-known phenomenon that occurs in any niche market that is going mainstream; there are Dutch gamers for example who refuse to play any game translated to Dutch, because "nothing can captivate the meaning of the original English" and "Dutch sounds so clinical and uncool". Of course Dutch for the Dutch is associated with real-life (which might explain the clinical aspect) while English is associated with kewl Hollywood movies and all that, but in my humble opinion this is taking things a bit too far.
One translation suggested by these people was for example (and I'll reverse this to English to show you how stupid it sounded): "The schutter sprong op from his vossenhol, peeked through het vizier, richtte on the enemy and schoot the vijand dead." I don't know what this is, but it sure ain't English and it sure ain't Dutch.
Some quotes from these people (they think they're English is so good that they even post in this language on Dutch forums):
"I think i'm on of the best english speaking person on these forums, since i AM english. though, i'm quite sure, i am not the only one here."
"yeah Dutch peeps...a game in Dutch whahahah u make me laugh... [...] ...I Love this language but not in game man its [censored] U hear it from the best and feel the game in ENGLISH...the best language. I can imagin french but neffe Dutch or how u say it : Nederlands"
Impressive eh. Now I've been translating from English to Dutch for years and obviously my English will never reach native level, but these peeps have seen two episodes of Die Hard and think their English is the best in the world. It's almost like some contest: those people whose English is best, are like God.
We also saw this phenomenon when a movie adaptation was made of The Lord of the Rings and Peter Jackson introduced a few small cinematographic changes in the movie version. The die-hard Tolkien fans wanted to see him burn on the stake for that, as changing any element of the story was like heresy. There was also huge criticism when Peter announced that Sir Ian McKellen would play Gandalf, "as Ian was gay and could therefore never portray the god-like Gandalf".
IMHO what is really behind this is something very psychological: people having locked up themselves in a small cosy niche market in which they can play God, spread their arcane knowledge and be adored by their own little fanbase. Once that market is broken open and goes mainstream, their very position as king in this world is threatened. And of course they will do anything needed to preserve their status.
Anyway, this is what I tell my clients:
"Note that Dutch translations are a very sensitive subject for hardcore gamers. For some of them, playing games in English is a way of life. It is therefore extremely important to offer both English and Dutch language options, so that hardcore gamers can play the game in English, and casual gamers can play the game in Dutch. If you don't offer two options, you will aggravate your community and be ridiculed in all reviews (mostly written by hardcore gamers). Offer two options, and you will earn the respect of both camps. This phenomenon is one of the peculiarities of the Dutch game market.
Do not underestimate casual gamers (those who crave for a Dutch localization) by the way. According to research by Macrovision Corporation, these people still play 20 hours per week on the average."
Best regards,
Loek van Kooten
--
Akebono Translation Service
Rijnstraat 32
2311 NK Leiden
The Netherlands
Tel: +31-71-5128026
Fax: +31-84-7390618
Algemene voorwaarden: www.akebono.nl/algemeen.doc
Terms and conditions: www.akebono.nl/terms.doc
Chamber of Commerce reg. no.: 28066372
Akebono Translation Service
Dear all,
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they think they're English is so good |
I so hate it when that happens.
their