Japanese keyboard

[Monja Isshin]

Hello, everyone,

This is somewhat off-topic, but I would appreciate your help:

I am a Soto Zen female priest in Brazil.

When we write romanized Japanese on our English or Portuguese configured keyboards, we use the circumflex to represent the macron for the long vowels (おう、おお = ô , うう = û).

While I was in Japan, I used a Japanese computer (Japanese keyboard and Japanes Windows) and I know that I found how to get the o+circumflex and the u+circumflex, but that was four years ago and I don´t remember if I had to switch the computer to English/Portuguese input and then use certain keys on the keyboard or if I had found a way to get the same characters while set for Japanese input in alphanumeric mode.

I would like to e-mail instructions to our Sôkan about how he can write the longs sounds, but no longer have access to a Japanese computer with Japanese keyboard.

Can somebody tell me what instructions I should send him?

Thank you very much,
Monja Isshin

 --
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http://aguasdacompaixao.wordpress.com/
http://interconexao.wordpress.com/
=====================================================
A paz começa com cada um de nós - aqui, agora.
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====================================================

[BJ Beauchamp]

Hello,

 

  You don't have to switch over the input system, there is a quick and easy shortcut to do it. In order to get the o with the circumflex, simply hold down the ALT key and push 0244 (ALT + 0244) and then release it and it will appear as ô (the capital is ALT + 0212). To get the u, simply hold down the ALT key again and push 0251 (ALT + 0251) and release again to get û. (the capital is ALT + 0219). Just make sure you are using the keypad input otherwise it won't show up.  

 

   Hopefully this will help you. It should be fairly universal for everyone.

 

-- BJ B.

--
--
BJ Beauchamp
University at Buffalo
/ Linguistics Major / Intended Japanese Major /
---
この生が残してくれたものから、けして目をそらさない
それが、君の知る世界の終わり
僕は一人で、立ち向かう
砂となりて降りつむ
光の向こう

for what life has left for me, never will I look away
this is the end of all you know
i'll have to stand alone
words fall to become the sand
see beyond the light
---

[Derek Lin]

Here's a table that might be useful to some on the list.

http://www.forlang.wsu.edu/help/keyboards.asp

It lists the codes for other extended characters as well (including €,
â, ã, ø, etc), along with a link to how to get them for Mac users.

A trick to avoid having to memorise arbitrary numerical codes on Windows
is to open up the Character Map (Start menu > Run... > "charmap" if you
can't find it) and set up keyboard shortcuts for the ones you use most,
e.g. CTRL+SHIFT+^+i = î. However, this is unnecessary on a Mac as the
built-in input method is intuitive enough on its own (e.g. opt+i,
<vowel> for vowels with circumflexes).

Derek Lin

[Mark Spahn]

BJ,

This is useful information.  Thanks.

There must be a whole list of non-standard characters and

how to input them, such as the degree sign or the euro sign.

Where does one find this list?

-- Mark Spahn  (West Seneca, NY)

 

----- Original Message -----

From: BJ Beauchamp

To: hon...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 10:38 AM

Subject: Re: Japanese keyboard

Hello,

 

  You don't have to switch over the input system, there is a quick and easy shortcut to do it. In order to get the o with the circumflex, simply hold down the ALT key and push 0244 (ALT + 0244) and then release it and it will appear as ô (the capital is ALT + 0212). To get the u, simply hold down the ALT key again and push 0251 (ALT + 0251) and release again to get û. (the capital is ALT + 0219). Just make sure you are using the keypad input otherwise it won't show up.  

 

   Hopefully this will help you. It should be fairly universal for everyone.

 

-- BJ B.

--

[Alan Siegrist]

BJ Beauchamp writes:

| You don't have to switch over the input system, there is a quick and easy
| shortcut to do it. In order to get the o with the circumflex, simply hold
| down the ALT key and push 0244 (ALT + 0244) and then release it and it
| will appear as ô (the capital is ALT + 0212). To get the u, simply hold
| down the ALT key again and push 0251 (ALT + 0251) and release again to
| get û. (the capital is ALT + 0219). Just make sure you are using the
| keypad input otherwise it won't show up.  
| 
| Hopefully this will help you. It should be fairly universal for everyone.

These shortcuts may work, but they may be confusing or impractical for
someone using a computer in Japan, because many Japanese computers are
laptops which generally do not have a separate keypad. Keypad input can be
simulated on a laptop, but with a sometimes byzantine set of modes which are
often unique to the individual computer. It is also necessary to have Num
Lock on, and it may not be clear how to turn on Num Lock on a laptop or the
user of a standard keyboard may not realize the significance of Num Lock
being on or off.

Another set of shortcuts which should be available in either English input
mode or Romaji input mode (but not hiragana input mode) without resorting to
keypad input are:
Ctrl-Shift-^, o: ô
Ctrl-Shift-^, u: û

These are typed by holding down the Ctrl and Shift keys at the same time
while pressing the 6 (^) key and then releasing Ctrl and Shift and typing
just the letter o or u.

But this is probably exactly how our correspondent is typing these symbols,
so I am a little confused by the question and am thus unsure as to the best
advice that can be given to the Sôkan.

Regards,

Alan Siegrist
Orinda, CA, USA

[Alan Siegrist]

Mark Spahn writes:

| There must be a whole list of non-standard characters and
| how to input them, such as the degree sign or the euro sign.
| Where does one find this list?

There might be a list somewhere, but you can easily find the shortcut key
for almost any character or symbol by going to Insert > Symbol and then
looking through the symbols available in that particular font and clicking
once on the character of interest. Down at the bottom left of the symbol
screen you will find "Shortcut key:" followed by the current shortcut
available for that character. For example, Alt+Ctrl+E should give the euro
sign (unless it has been reassigned).

You can also assign or reassign shortcut keys to symbols you use frequently
by clicking on the [Shortcut key...] button.

[Nathan]

In addition to using the ASCII codes, as others have suggested, you
can also simply use the Character Map if the machine is running
Windows.

スタート→すべてのプログラム→アクセサリ→システムツール→文字コード表

The filename is charmap.exe and should be in the path, so you can also
just choose ファイル名を指定して実行 from the Start menu and type in charmap and
it should bring up the same table. Here you'll be able to see and copy
(to the clipboard) all characters that you can possible input.

As for seeing a list of these codes that someone asked about, just do
a Google search for ASCII chart/codes. Hasn't anyone around here been
using PCs long enough to have a long forgotten love of ASCII and ANSI
(and making funny pictures pop up using your autoexec.bat file)?

[BJ Beauchamp]

These shortcuts may work, but they may be confusing or impractical for
someone using a computer in Japan, because many Japanese computers are
laptops which generally do not have a separate keypad. Keypad input can be
simulated on a laptop, but with a sometimes byzantine set of modes which are
often unique to the individual computer.

   This is true, however, most laptops do have a separate keypad that can be activated by holding down the function key. My HP computer has one that is in between the start and control key. The same input system works, you merely have to use the function key and the keys that correspond to the "keypad keys" (in addition to the ALT key). But then again, this isn't something that the everyday common computer user will look for/utilize. =)

-- BJ

Nathan: Why use that when you can just memorize the numbers? =) Oh the former days of multimedia/web design and programming... how I sometimes miss them...

[Aaron Madlon-Kay]

Hello.

On a Mac it's as simple as Option+^, then the appropriate letter key.
But I take it you're talking about Windows (I couldn't get Alan's Ctrl
+Shift+^ combos to work on WinXP Pro).

People have suggested a number of ways to input those characters, but
failing the Option+^ solution, I always find the easiest is to
register the characters as words in the 単語/用例登録 dictionary. Example:

読み： おー
語句： ô
品詞： その他自立詞

And likewise for û. Then you can input them as if they were Japanese
characters, without memorizing arcane codes or mousing through
annoying character palettes.

-Aaron

On 10月23日, 午後8:31, "Monja Isshin" <monjaiss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello, everyone,
>
> This is somewhat off-topic, but I would appreciate your help:
>
> I am a Soto Zen female priest in Brazil.
>
> When we write romanized Japanese on our English or Portuguese configured
> keyboards, we use the circumflex to represent the macron for the long vowels
> (おう、おお = ô , うう = û).
>
> While I was in Japan, I used a Japanese computer (Japanese keyboard and
> Japanes Windows) and I know that I found how to get the o+circumflex and the
> u+circumflex, but that was four years ago and I don´t remember if I had to
> switch the computer to English/Portuguese input and then use certain keys on
> the keyboard or if I had found a way to get the same characters while set
> for Japanese input in alphanumeric mode.
>
> I would like to e-mail instructions to our Sôkan about how he can write the
> longs sounds, but no longer have access to a Japanese computer with Japanese
> keyboard.
>
> Can somebody tell me what instructions I should send him?
>
> Thank you very much,
> Monja Isshin
>

>  --http://monjaisshin.wordpress.com/http://aguasdacompaixao.wordpress.com/http://interconexao.wordpress.com/

[Alan Siegrist]

Aaron Madlon-Kay writes:

> But I take it you're talking about Windows

That is what the original poster Monja Isshin was asking about.

> (I couldn't get Alan's Ctrl+Shift+^ combos to work on WinXP Pro).

That is odd. I wonder why not. You do have to be using MS Word or one of the
other Office programs for this to work, though.

> People have suggested a number of ways to input those characters, but
> failing the Option+^ solution, I always find the easiest is to
> register the characters as words in the 単語/用例登録 dictionary.

Yes, that is also another very handy option. Again in MS Word, you can use
AutoCorrect to register any character with an abbreviation you can remember
and it will expand it with the proper symbol. You don't need to be in
Japanese 変換 mode.

[Tom Donahue]

This has been an interesting thread. A preliminary
summary of the methods mentioned so far, with pros
and cons. (They should all work on a Japanese keyboard).

1) Alt + 0 + code
Pro: Works in any Windows application, lots of other
codes (Google on "Alt" "Shortcut" "special characters"
for various lists)
Con: Hard to remember the codes, requires keypad
(inconvenient on notebooks).

2) charmap.exe
Pro: Works in any Windows application.
Con: Tedious (Derek suggested assigning shortcuts, but I
can't find that button on my Japanese XP system).

3) Word Insert Symbol command + scroll to the character
Pro: Easy
Con: Tedious, only works in Word

4) Standard Word shortcut (Ctrl + ^, then character)
Pro: Easiest for circumflex macrons
Con: Only works in Word, no preassigned shortcut for
bar macrons

5) Custom Word shortcut (Assign shortcut from Insert
Symbol window)
Pro: Allows shortcuts for bar macrons
Con: Custom (won't work on another PC)

6) Custom IME shortcut
Pro: Sounds very convenient if you are typing in
Japanese input mode
Con: Custom, inconvenient in other modes

7) AutoCorrect shortcut
Pro: Easy to remember, convenient
Con: Word won't expand it unless you type a
non-alphabetic character (space, period, etc.)
before and after, so inconvenient for letters
inside words

So for working in Word, it looks like method 4) is the
easiest.
Otherwise method 1). You can learn the codes if you use
them often enough... I know one, and used to
know more.

--
Tom Donahue

[Edward Lipsett /t]

on 08/10/24 16:18, Tom Donahue wrote:

> This has been an interesting thread. A preliminary
> summary of the methods mentioned so far, with pros
> and cons. (They should all work on a Japanese keyboard).

Not Windows, but on the Mac it used to be possible to select the Hawaiian
keyboard and have all the vowels with macrons at your fingertips. I don't
know if this is available on the Windows platform or not, but if so it might
be the easiest approach... Anyone with Windows and a lot of spare time
around to have a look?

----------
Edward Lipsett, Intercom, Ltd.
translation€@intercomltd.com
Publishing: http://www.kurodahan.com
Translation & layout: http://www.intercomltd.com

[Ryan Field]

This isn't completely related to the topic at hand, other than being
about Japanese keyboards, but I'll ask anyway.
(Sorry to the OP for hijacking the thread!)

I was just wondering if there's a way to map a single key to switch
between input languages.
You can't through the standard "Settings" window, but is there a way to
force-map a single key?

Alt+tilde-ly yours,

Ryan Field
ryan....@shaw.ca

[Derek Lin]

> 2) charmap.exe
> Pro: Works in any Windows application.
> Con: Tedious (Derek suggested assigning shortcuts, but I
> can't find that button on my Japanese XP system).
>

I don't use Windows anymore and don't have access to a Windows machine,
so I can't look it up for you, I'm afraid, but it's one of those things
that I remember doing.

It could have been a Word feature rather than a Character Map one, though.

Derek

[Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven]

To add to your list Tom:

if you add another IME for, say, English, you can select as keyboard US
International. This keyboard allows you to type ' and then o to get ó, for
example. Same for " + o -> ő, , + c -> ç and so on.

And switching IMEs is as simple as pressing ALT + SHIFT once.

--
Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven <asmodai(-at-)in-nomine.org> / asmodai
イェルーン ラウフロック ヴァン デル ウェルヴェン
http://www.in-nomine.org/ | http://www.rangaku.org/ | GPG: 2EAC625B
Losing your life is not the only way to die...

[Roland Hechtenberg]

Edward Lipsett /t schrieb:

> Not Windows, but on the Mac it used to be possible to select the Hawaiian
> keyboard and have all the vowels with macrons at your fingertips. I don't
> know if this is available on the Windows platform or not, but if so it might
> be the easiest approach... Anyone with Windows and a lot of spare time
> around to have a look?

Windows has no Hawaian keyboard listed, but Microsoft offers a utility
which lets you map your own keyboard the way you want it, and when you
select that keyboard, all Windows applications recognize it.

Have fun (and the keyboard of your choice),

[BJ Beauchamp]

Hello,

   I don't believe you can force it to one particular key, however if you hold down alt + shift, that will toggle different input languages. I'm fairly certain it should be the same for a Japanese keyboard, but I could be wrong...

-- BJ

[Isshin]

Thank you so much to all you wonderful people with your various
suggestions.

Yes, he is using Windows - I think it's Vista (he's in São Paulo and
I'm in Porto Alegre, a city way to the south, so I can´t hop over to
check...). And it´s a notebook - a beauty of a super lightweight model
(he travels back and forth between Brazil and Japan on a monthly
basis...).

Since I´m not sure if he actually tried using Ctrl-Shift-^, o: ô, Ctrl-
Shift-^, u: û while in romaji or English input, that´s what I´ve sent
him first.

Now, if he goes to English input, the mapping of the keys changes,
which means that the letters and symbols that are printed on the keys
can no longer guide him. When I saw him (and his computer) last, I didn
´t if the keyboard itself was hiragana or romaji. The question is, if
he configures his computer for English input, usind the International
English input method, will the circumflex still be on the key where it
is printed or will it change places?

Thank you, all of you,

Gasshô,　合掌
Monja Isshin

[Alan Siegrist]

Isshin writes:

> Yes, he is using Windows - I think it's Vista (he's in Sao Paulo and

> I'm in Porto Alegre, a city way to the south, so I can´t hop over to
> check...). And it´s a notebook - a beauty of a super lightweight model
> (he travels back and forth between Brazil and Japan on a monthly
> basis...).
>

> Since I´m not sure if he actually tried using Ctrl-Shift-^, o: o, Ctrl-
> Shift-^, u: u while in romaji or English input, that's what I've sent
> him first.

Let us know if it works.

> Now, if he goes to English input, the mapping of the keys changes,
> which means that the letters and symbols that are printed on the keys
> can no longer guide him.

It sounds like he has some sort of keyboard driver problem. There should be
no reason to use a keyboard driver that does not match the labels printed on
the keys. Even in "Japanese" input mode, it is possible to change to "direct
input" (直接入力) mode that lets you input English whenever necessary. If he
only needs to input Japanese and English, there is no need for a special
"English input" mode using a driver that does not match the keys on the
keyboard. I am using "direct input" mode right now and there are no
problems.

Now, if he needs to input Portuguese or another language with accented
characters, he might want to use a different keyboard driver that makes it
more convenient to enter the accented characters. It is still possible to
input the special characters with the Japanese keyboard driver in "direct
input" mode, but it might be slightly less convenient.

Perhaps the problem is that someone has installed a keyboard driver that
does not match the computer and its key layout. He should look into that or
have someone uninstall that driver.

> When I saw him (and his computer) last, I didn't see if the keyboard

> itself was hiragana or romaji.

Most Japanese keyboards have both hiragana and romaji on the keys.

> The question is, if
> he configures his computer for English input, usind the International
> English input method, will the circumflex still be on the key where it
> is printed or will it change places?

I would suggest that fixing the keyboard driver problem is more important
than trying to guess where the keys might be mapped on the incorrect
keyboard driver. That sounds confusing.