Principal as a job title

[hishii]

Hi All,

I have three business card to translate for an organization, and would
like to ask for your help. The job title of all three people is
"Principal," and their titles were changed from President and Vice
President to "Principal." Since "Principal" is the top of the
company, 社長 would be a possible translation, but I do not think having
three people in 社長's position is not appropriate. Another possible
translation could be something like 首席, but that does not sound a
position in a company. 代表取締役 does not seem to fit for Principal.
What would be a good translation for "Principal" in a for-profit
organization? Any input would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Steve Venti]

<his...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> 代表取締役 does not seem to fit for Principal.

Could you explain why not? FWIW, my own business cards say "principal"
on one side and "代表取締役" on the other.

--
Steve Venti

The source of all unhappiness is other people.
--Wally
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Alan Siegrist]

Steve Venti writes:

> <his...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > 代表取締役 does not seem to fit for Principal.
>
> Could you explain why not? FWIW, my own business cards say "principal"
> on one side and "代表取締役" on the other.

How many people have that same title at your company?

Regards,

Alan Siegrist
Orinda, CA, USA
AlanFS...@Comcast.net

[Steve Venti]

Alan Siegrist wrote:

> How many people have that same title at your company?

Since it is a one-man company, only me, but what has that got to do
with the issue at hand? Surely you aren't suggesting that a company
can have only one principal, are you? If you are, I suggest that you
disabuse yourself of that fallacy immediately by googling on "three
principals."

[Alan Siegrist]

Steve Venti writes:

> Surely you aren't suggesting that a company
> can have only one principal, are you?

Of course not. I am suggesting that it might be odd for a company to have
more than one 代表取締役.

[Andy Taylor]

You may be trying to be too Japanese.  You could do it in Katakana.  Solves the problem.  If the firm is a architectural firm, principal may be accepted in Japan already.  For example:  プリンシパルアーキテクト  from the Japan Home Show website.

Andy

---

--

---

Andrew Taylor
Japan Pacific Publications, Inc.
PO Box 3092 -- 519 6th Ave. S., Suite 220 -- Seattle, WA 98104
Tel: 206-622-7443 -- Fax: 206-621-1786

Translations and Typesetting in Japanese - Chinese - Korean
Publishers of the Soy Source -- Seattle's Japanese language newspaper

[Steve Venti]

Alan writes:
> Of course not. I am suggesting that it might be odd for a company to have
> more than one 代表取締役.

Wow, I have no idea why you would think that. I'm sure that there are
exceptions, but to the best of my knowledge, most kabushikigaisha have
multiple daihyou-torishimariyaku.

In any case, the point I would like to make is that if these
"principals" each have the authority to enter the company into
contractual agreements, then 代表取締役 is a legitimate candidate.

[B. Hyman]

On Thu, 3 May 2007 18:04:32 -0700
"Alan Siegrist" <AlanFS...@Comcast.net> wrote:

> > Surely you aren't suggesting that a company
> > can have only one principal, are you?
>
> Of course not. I am suggesting that it might be odd for a company to have
> more than one 代表取締役.

Companies can have more than one 代表取締役.

I think that the possibility of 共同代表 went when the 新会社法 was
enacted, but there is still no limit on the number of 代表取締役.

---------------------------------------------
Brian Hyman
mli...@yokomoji.com
---------------------------------------------

[Richard Thieme]

----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "Steve Venti" <jsn...@gmail.com>
宛先 : <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2007年5月4日 10:23
件名 : Re: Principal as a job title

> Alan writes:
>> Of course not. I am suggesting that it might be odd for a company to have

>> more than one 莉」陦ィ蜿也キ�蠖ケ.

>
> Wow, I have no idea why you would think that. I'm sure that there are
> exceptions, but to the best of my knowledge, most kabushikigaisha have
> multiple daihyou-torishimariyaku.
>

Really? My experience is that most don't, although you certainly can.

Anyway, regarding Principal as a job title, it seems to me that this is more
likely to be used for entities that were formerly organized as partnerships,
like accounting firms, or actuaries, or something like that.

For a regular company you are more likely to see President and CEO in
English.

Of course that doesn't solve the situation of when there are more than one
代表取締役, because two CEO's strikes me as strange.

Regards,

Richard Thieme

[Fred Uleman]

"Principal" in a corporate context, including unincorporate contexts,
is often 代表.

This avoids the 取締役 part, which a non-incorporated entity would not
have, but conveys that the person is able to speak for the entity.
There is no problem with having plural 代表.

--
Fred Uleman

[Tom Donahue]

Richard Thieme writes:

> Anyway, regarding Principal as a job title, it seems to me that this is more
> likely to be used for entities that were formerly organized as partnerships,
> like accounting firms, or actuaries, or something like that.

I agree. In architecture, "principal" (by itself) is almost synonymous with
"partner". But here we have a company that has a President and wants
to call him a Principal, which seems odd to me since a partnership
doesn't have a president.

Anyway, if I were translating it into Japanese I would go with 代表取締役.
The OP could also suggest that instead of Principal they use "Representative
Director" as the English job titles.
That works only in Japan, but since the business cards are going to be
used in Japan it wouldn't hurt to use titles that people expect.

--
Tom Donahue

[Richard Thieme]

(snip)

> Of course that doesn't solve the situation of when there are more than one

> $BBeI=<hDyLr (B, because two CEO's strikes me as strange.
>
How did that happen テスト

[Richard Thieme]

----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "Richard Thieme" <rdth...@gol.com>
宛先 : <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2007年5月4日 13:21

件名 : Re: Principal as a job title

>
>

OKそれでは日本語は大丈夫かな

[hishii]

Many thanks for people who responded to my posting. There is
something I didn't know here. I was not aware that a company can have
more than one 代表取締役. This is why I initially thought the translation
was not a good fit for three Principals. But I still think 取締役 is
very specific to incorporated organizations. Unfortunately, 代表 only
would not work well because there is additional business card from
this same company, and this additional card, which is for a Japanese
man working in Japan for this US-based company, has a title of "Japan
Representative" and I was asked to use "日本代表" for this title. The US-
based company is an LLC, so I am not sure if the concept of 取締役
applies...

Hideki

[Minoru Mochizuki]

I wonder what kind of an organization it is. More information
on the organization itself may be helpful.

Minoru Mochizuki

[Alan Siegrist]

H Ishii writes:

> The job title of all three people is "Principal,"

You might want to just call them all プリンシパル.

This is used as a job title for many people in the Japanese branch of
McKinsey & Company. See:

http://www.mckinsey.co.jp/services/leadership/index.html

I am afraid that I have no clue as to whether this rank is higher or lower
than that of ディレクター.

[T. Miracle]

The giants in the consulting business, especially McKinsey & Co.,
started calling their worker bees "principals" back in the 1970s.
It's basically consultant-speak for another job title that also
became fairly widespread, the "associate." Some have even said that
it was set up to be purposely vague in order to foil the intelligence
gathering activities of Japanese companies who purportedly wanted to
scope out the hierarchical relationships among the competition, but
there may also have been an egalitarian element in there somewhere,
dreamed up by the HR people. Top dogs among the principals are the
"managing prinicipals."

Tom Miracle

[Alan Siegrist]

T. Miracle writes:

> The giants in the consulting business, especially McKinsey & Co.,
> started calling their worker bees "principals" back in the 1970s.
> It's basically consultant-speak for another job title that also
> became fairly widespread, the "associate."

If you look carefully on that same web site, you will also find the title:
アソシエイト プリンシパル.

Now put that in your hookah and smoke it.

Regards,

Alan Siegrist
Grand Poo-Bah and Head Dog Walker
Siegrist Translations
Orinda, CA, USA
AlanFS...@Comcast.net