目合わせ

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Warren Smith

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Nov 17, 2021, 1:06:52 PM11/17/21
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XX殿との目合わせをしたい

 

In English, "seeing eye-to-eye" means to come to a consensus or reach an shared understanding.

Is there an idiomatic meaning for "" in Japanese? Does this just mean "I want a face-to-face meeting," or is there another implication?

 

Thanks.

 

Warren

Herman

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Nov 17, 2021, 4:38:28 PM11/17/21
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> --

I really can't say what the detailed contextual implications of the term
would be just from the above short sentence, but if forced to translate
it without further context, perhaps I would say "I would like to see
where we stand on this with XX" or "I would like to look at this
together with XX". It generally seems to have something to do with
comparing and/or agreeing some position, evaluation, goal, policy, etc.
among several parties.

Herman Kahn

Warren Smith

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Nov 17, 2021, 5:05:40 PM11/17/21
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Thanks, Herman.
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56%40lmi.net.

Eri Hara

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Nov 17, 2021, 9:03:23 PM11/17/21
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Would you please provide its context?
I googled 目合わせ combining 業界用語 ビジネス and found it's
used as a printing/bookbinding term
to inspect binding pages visually:
https://sei-hon.jp/glossary/words/%96%DA%8D%87%82%ED%82%B9.html

and also it's popularly used as a manufacturing term (mainly for exposure and parts)
but it may not be right for this case:
So I believe the sentence "XX殿との目合わせをしたい" means
this person wants to arrange the precise product inspection with the company XX
during/before/after the maintenance/production process or he/she wants to meet XX directly
for the further discussion.   So that's why I need the context for easier
assumption.


Eri





Dr. M. S. Niranjan

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Nov 17, 2021, 9:05:11 PM11/17/21
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This does not seem to be a commonly used phrase, and from my search in Yahoo! Japan, I find that this means to have an honest, sincere, open, heart-to-heart discussion, perhaps implying hiding nothing and disclosing everything.

I feel that this usage probably originated from the English "seeing eye-to-eye", since looking a person in the eye while talking to that person used to be considered 失礼, particularly when you are conversing with someone superior to you. However, the meaning in Japanese seems to have a slightly different nuance, that of expressing one's own sincerity and frankness.

See:
https://www.weblio.jp/content/%E7%9B%AE%E3%82%92%E5%90%88%E3%82%8F%E3%81%9B%E3%82%8B

Of course, 目合わせ is also used in photo-lithography for semiconductors, etc. in a totally different sense.

Niranjan
(Dr. M. S. Niranjan)

Warren Smith

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Nov 17, 2021, 10:04:01 PM11/17/21
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Thanks Hari and Dr. Niranjan,

 

The context is pretty clear that he wants to hold a meeting with Company XX. I wonder if what he is looking for is, as Dr. N said, a "heart-to-heart."

 

Thanks for the help!

 

Warren

 


From: hon...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hon...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Dr. M. S. Niranjan
Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2021 9:05 PM
To: hon...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re:
目合わせ

 

On 2021/11/17 23:36, Warren Smith wrote:

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Herman

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Nov 18, 2021, 5:04:06 AM11/18/21
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On 11/17/21 7:03 PM, Warren Smith wrote:
> Thanks Hari and Dr. Niranjan,
>
> The context is pretty clear that he wants to hold a meeting with Company
> XX. I wonder if what he is looking for is, as Dr. N said, a
> "heart-to-heart."
>

Dr. N cited a reference to the expression 目を合わせる, which I agree
can have a nuance of "heart-to-heart" (as in "to look into somebody's
eyes"). However, I don't think 目合わせをする is generally synonymous to
"目を合わせる", but is rather of the same genre as すり合わせ、目線合わ
せ、認識合わせ, etc.

Herman Kahn

John Stroman

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Nov 18, 2021, 6:01:32 AM11/18/21
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Warren,
Others have offered good suggestions by focusing on the term 目を合わせる, I think it is important to remember that in Japanese culture people have raised intentional vagueness to a high art, and it comes out naturally in their use of language.  Therefore, rather than coming up with a specific phrase in English, Why not opt for a higher level of abstraction such as "discuss this with X to be sure we understand each other," or going even higher, simply "discuss this with X," or "see what X has to say." These phrases are less restrictive than meeting in person or even agreeing. Given the lack of context, we cannot be sure exactly what the speaker/writer means. To the speaker/writer, 目合わせをする may actually imply a simple phone call or email. We can't expect average speakers/writers to pay attention to language details like translators. Sometimes it is wiser to step back and not take the words of the source language too literally.
John Stroman
----------------

Shuichi Yamakawa

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Nov 18, 2021, 7:35:30 AM11/18/21
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Hi everyone,

Honestly, I have never seen this expression "目合わせ" in my whole private or professional life. To me, "eye-to-eye" does not seem to be  a very convincing way of interpreting it. So I googled it and through the cluttering of "eye-to-eye" hits, I finally found the following usage of "目合わせ."

出荷目合わせ会 is being held by members of an agricultural cooperative to develop a common quality measurement standard for the produce they are going to ship. https://ja-niigata.or.jp/wp/agrinews/15160

目標目合わせ会議 is being held by department heads of an organization to develop a shared view of management goals across different departments. http://gyousei-design.jp/column/2018/05/post-102.php

Guess alert: I am just wondering if "目合わせ" in question means something like "getting on the same page, sharing a common understanding, getting alignment with Mr. X" by any chace.

Sorry if I am wrong.

Shuichi Yamakawa (aka Shu)

Tony McNicol

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Nov 18, 2021, 9:25:31 AM11/18/21
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We also say "a meeting of minds", which is perhaps more appropriate in a business context than "heart to heart". Or possibly "get our ducks in a row" :-)

Tony

Mika J.

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Nov 18, 2021, 12:54:53 PM11/18/21
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The source text has a tone of a request or a wish.
XX殿との目合わせをしたい
The use of 殿 suggests to us that the author is, or has a habit of,
placing himself being lower, or equally high-up in position while
keeping distance from the person being referred to.
Also, the author is writing to someone who can approve/arrange the meeting.

The anticipated response to the above is something like:
はい、かしこまりました。
では、先方に打診します。
OK, I'll get that arranged.

お目通り collocates well with 殿 in samurai speak, but that wouldn't work
in today's email correspondence.
目合わせ would, as shown in examples aptly found by Shu-san.

So, the translation of the source text might be something like:
"I'd like to see Mr. XX sometime."

Mika Jarmusz




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From: hon...@googlegroups.com <hon...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of
Shuichi Yamakawa
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2021 4:35 AM
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Subject: Re: 目合わせ
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Warren Smith

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Nov 18, 2021, 1:14:13 PM11/18/21
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Thank you all for your responses. Even in my 5th decade doing this, I still
learn a lot from my colleagues. I think Mika's analysis at the end was
particularly interesting, and Tony's comment about having the right tone was
spot-on. Shuichi's research was quite interesting as well, because it hits
the context quite well (of people in an industrial setting who need to get
on the same page about specifications), which ties well into Eri's
observation. As John pointed out, the high-art of vaguery may be at work as
well (likely why these emails are driving me nuts...) And of course I always
learn from Herman and Dr. N.

Thank you all for your help!

Warren

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