Sunflare Academy-Worth it?

[Cary Strunk]

Okay, I read everything on these boards about Sunflare (which wasn't
much) before posting this, so here goes nothing.

I have just started out as a full-time patent translator at a law firm
in Japan. Even though I was trained in the field before accepting the
job, I am a slight bit disappointed in my own lack of ability. My
problem is with collocations, which I don't think any amount of
training can solve. In short, no course, no matter how thorough, can
possibly cover every combination of every noun and verb the human mind
can design.

In hopes of improving my efficiency (and not bothering everyone on
here with ridiculous questions all the time), I visited Sunflare
Academy yesterday with an eye towards enrolling in Special Course B
(IIRC). My reservations are as follows:

1) The course objective is to get a job...which I have already done.
2) Half of the work is translating into Japanese...which I don't do
and would NEVER attempt by choice.
3) It would be 2k down the drain if not worth it.
4) As relates to 2) and 3), I'd be spending half of my tuition on
stuff I don't ever want to do.
5) Looking over their texts, I found something with which I don't
necessarily agree (the use of "characterized in that" in a US
specification).

Anyway, has anybody been through their program? What I probably need
to do is just relax and give myself more time. Nobody starts out
perfect, and nobody improves overnight. I just get daunted when I see
patent translators who claim to crank out 7-8 words/day or more (as
one guy on Proz routinely does).

Any input would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Cary Strunk

[Ginstrom IT Solutions (GITS)]

> [mailto:hon...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cary Strunk

> Anyway, has anybody been through their program? What I
> probably need to do is just relax and give myself more time.
> Nobody starts out perfect, and nobody improves overnight. I
> just get daunted when I see patent translators who claim to
> crank out 7-8 words/day or more (as one guy on Proz routinely does).

I haven't been through the program, but I wonder if you've heard of
horsefrog?

http://www.horsefrog.com/japanese-translator-patent/

I haven't been through this one either, but I know some people who took/are
taking the courses and recommend them.

Just out of curiousity, if you've already seen horsefrog and decided against
it, would you mind saying why?

Also, not to brag but I routinely crank out more than 7 or 8 words a day --
sometimes even double. <G>

Regards,
Ryan

--
Ryan Ginstrom
trans...@ginstrom.com
http://ginstrom.com/

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Ginstrom:

 

Yes, I am aware of Horsefrog and have been through the course to my satisfaction.

 

Thank you for the input.

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Ginstrom:

 

If you would like to know more about my experience with Horsefrog, you are more than welcome to PM me. I do have reservations about making things public, however, because the gentleman who runs the site has always treated me with the utmost integrity. It is only fitting that I return the favor.

[Matthew Fitsko]

> patent translators who claim to crank out 7-8 words/day or more (as
> one guy on Proz routinely does).

Heh, I do that much before breakfast. ;)

Cary, it sounds like you've already talked yourself out of taking the
Sunflare course, and are looking for people to support your decision.

I don't know anything about the Sunflare course itself, but I always
find doing real work is the best way to get better at doing real work.
Once thing that might help is to read more patents originally written
in English. That will help you master the style and pick up some of
the syntactic tricks patent attorneys use to make complicated
sentences more manageable.

Another thing that helps a lot is steady clients. I don't always know
the names of the particular engineers and attorneys who write the
patent applications I translate, but I do know their writing styles
and have adapted ways of handling their Japanese. This has definitely
helped me improve my daily volume. This might apply even more so to
you since you're working in-house. If you're translating a lot of
stuff from the same people, start profiling their writing styles so
you can translate their work faster and with more consistency.

> I just get daunted when I see
> patent translators who claim to crank out 7-8 words/day or more (as
> one guy on Proz routinely does).

First: it's Proz. I wouldn't worry about what people are claiming in
order to try and find work.
Second: Give it time. For reference, I did 3500 words today in about 5
hours. That's a pretty normal workload for me when I'm doing familiar
subject matter from clients I know well. I could have worked for
around 10 hours today and translated over 7000 words (and occasionally
I have), but that's exhausting and unfun, and I don't need to work
that hard to make my deadlines and maintain my standard of living. I
don't consider myself a blazingly fast translator, either - I just try
to work steadily while minimizing distractions.

Matthew Fitsko

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Fitsko:

 

Thank you for the input.

 

My only question is: How long did it take you to get to this level?

 

Best,

 

Cary Strunk

[Matthew Fitsko]

> My only question is: How long did it take you to get to this level?

Not that long, in fact. I've been translating for money since 2006,
and only switched to freelancing full-time in early 2008, almost
exactly one year ago. Of course, for six months before that I was
regularly translating nights, weekends, and lunch hours while also
trying to hold down a day job at a large corporation in Tokyo. Trying
to finish a job by Saturday afternoon so I could have the rest of the
weekend off definitely helped improve my overall speed :).

Matthew Fitsko

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Fitsko:

 

Lord have mercy. You are indeed superhuman.

[Cary Strunk]

...but, back on topic, anyone have any opinons on Sunflare itself?

[Fred Uleman]

The unanswered (unasked?) question about SunFlare is: who teaches the course? How good are they? Are they people you want to emulate? If they are, that is a plus. If they are not, that is a minus.

Can you opt out of (and opt out of paying for) the E2J part? Can you audit that part?

I suspect we do "patents" a disservice by talking about translating patents as though there were no content -- mechanical engineering, biomedicine, electronics, and more -- that also has to be understood before you can understand what the patent is all about and that has to be understood before you can worry about the "how patents should be written" part.

If you have a steady job at a law firm that will keep you busy and will give you feedback, I suspect that might suffice.

--
Fred Uleman, who is commenting in general because he has not taken the SunFlare course

[William Taylor]

Carry,

Just for your reference the ILC国際語学センター offers a course called the特許日英翻
訳コース. If you are only interested in 日英　this might give you more bang
for your buck. I am attending a証券金融翻訳コース at the same school and feel
that the curriculum is of high quality.
http://www.ilc-japan.com/tokyo/trans/bond.html

Regards,
William Taylor

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Taylor:

 

Infinite thanks. I will indeed check it out.

 

Mr. Uleman:

The instructors (this is from memory, mind you) are individuals who have been working in the field for years. IIRC, they all have a technical background. They have to be at least good enough to earn a living. Can't definitively say whether or not I'd like to emulate them. Cannot to my knowledge opt out of the E2J part, although I will confirm this when I go to view a sample class next week.

 

Thanks to all for the feedback.

[Cary Strunk]

Durn. The ILC course seems to have started in October. Whoops. A little slow on the draw, there, Cary boy...

[Richard Thieme]

Can't speak about the quality of the course, but I feel quite strongly that
an E to J component in a translation course would be very useful in doing J
to E in the future.

Even if you never actually translate into Japanese (and I never have, at
least for money), forcing yourself to go through this exercise will enable
you to learn a lot about how the two languages interact.

Regards,

Richard Thieme

----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "Cary Strunk" <cary....@gmail.com>
宛先 : <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2009年1月26日 15:58
件名 : Re: Sunflare Academy-Worth it?

[Chikuma Teshi]

>>The instructors (this is from memory, mind you) are individuals who have been working in the field for years. IIRC, they all have a technical background. 

>Durn. The ILC course seems to have started in October. Whoops. A little slow on the draw, there, Cary boy...

Note that they said in the field, not specifically the ILC course.

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Theime:

 

That may well be true, but I doubt I want to pay a grand for it! Who can say? I'll try it out and see.

 

Thanks for the input.

[Marc Adler]

On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:22 AM, Cary Strunk <cary....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Mr. Theime:
>
> That may well be true, but I doubt I want to pay a grand for it! Who can
> say? I'll try it out and see.

The best advice I got when starting out translating patent
applications was to read as many written in English as possible.
Before starting a job, I read at least two or three applications filed
in the US for (what amounts to basically) the same invention. It helps
you understand the technology, learn the common terminology, and get a
feel for locutions.

When I say "what amounts to basically the same invention," what I mean
is that if you search hard enough, you can find an application for an
almost exactly identical invention in the USPTO database.

--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com

[Doreen Simmons]

Now there's a blast from the past! I worked for the earlier incarnation
of ILC for my first five years in Japan. It did indeed have standards,
and teachers trained in its London school, a couple of minutes away
from Piccadilly Circus. The basic idea was always good -- minimize
Teacher Talking Time and maximize Student Talking Time (but always with
the teacher giving a clear demonstration first , getting the students
to respond, and then getting into the middle and monitoring all the
talk (still useful for yet another play which I am doing in the
round!).

Naturally with well-trained teachers specially imported from the UK it
temporarily went out of business here when overwhelmed by less picky,
but much cheaper, Japanese-owned schools. I was happy when a
reorganized form started up again (and was invited to the start-up
party) and this looks like the same quality, though with a new
organization and aiming at a new clientele. Does anyone happen to know
what became of the class I commissioned for the House of Reps
Secretariat? I've lost touch with that.

Doreen

Doreen Simmons
jz8d...@asahi-net.or.jp

[Mark Spahn]

Cary Strunk used the word "collocations", which I had to

look up.  It means "an arrangement of things side by side,

like words in a sentence".  I had the nagging feeling that

there was a similar-sounding word that Cary probably

meant (even though "collocations" makes perfect sense).

And then Marc Adler use the word "locutions".

Ah, that was it -- the word I was trying to think of

(locution = word, phrase, or expression).

Had Marc not mentioned this word, it would have

preyed on my mind for days and days.  What a relief!

-- Mark Spahn, colluding in a collation of colloquial

collocations and locutions

 

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Spahn:

 

No offense intended, but I meant precisely what I wrote.

[Cary Strunk]

Mr. Spahn:

 

...but I am glad you felt relieved all the same ;)

[Matthew Hammill]

"Collocation" is common term in the field of language study; I don't think it was used incorrectly or vaguely in the OP's message.

[Mark Spahn]

Just to close out this side-topic with good feelings,

yes, Cary Strunk's use of "collocation" is quite correct,

and now we know that it was exactly what he meant to say.

But it reminded me of a similar word that I could not

exactly recall.  Then, a few minutes later, Marc Adler

used the very word -- "locution" -- that I was trying to

call to mind.  (For a second, I wondered whether Marc's

choice of "locution" was deliberate, recalling the same

similar word that I failed to recall.)  Anyway,

we can bring to an end this colloquy about two

similar words of nearly identical meaning.

-- Mark Spahn  (West Seneca, NY)

[Doreen Simmons]

Indeed. In Japan there is an excellent dictionary of collocations which
is very handy for checking examples of which words do or do not go with
others. (But make sure it's the revised edition.)

Doreen

On 2009/01/27, at 8:46, Matthew Hammill wrote:

> "Collocation" is common term in the field of language study; I don't
> think it was used incorrectly or vaguely in the OP's message.
>

> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:41 AM, Mark Spahn <mark...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>>>> Cary Strunk used the word "collocations", which I had to
>>>> look up.

Oh dear.

Doreen Simmons
jz8d...@asahi-net.or.jp

[Jim Lockhart]

I was wondering whether Cary meant English collocations or Japanese
collocations.

If the latter, he might find the following useful:

知っておきたい 日本語コロケーション辞典
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E7%9F%A5%E3%81%A3%E3%81%A6%E3%81%8A%E3%81%8D%E3%81%9F%E3%81%84-%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC%E8%AA%9E%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B1%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8-%E5%AD%A6%E7%A0%94%E8%BE%9E%E5%85%B8%E7%B7%A8%E9%9B%86%E9%83%A8/dp/4053021308/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233020882&sr=8-1

HTH,
Jim Lockhart

--Jim Lockhart
Hachioji, Tokyo, JPN

[Cary Strunk]

If that's the dictionary I'm thinking of, one of my former Japanese teachers helped write it. Too lazy to check right now. At any rate, it wouldn't be of much assistance in the present situation.

 

@Mark Spahn:

 

No hurt feelings here. No worries. I just wanted to know about Sunflare...