Capitalization of prefecture etc

[Geoff Trousselot]

When using a rule to capitalize prefecture, I am thinking it is normal to write Tochigi Prefecture but Tochigi and Fukushima prefectures. Prefecture with lower case. I don't know how to verify this.

Geoffrey Trousselot

[Fred Uleman]

Would you capitalize Texas State? California State?

I suspect this

​desire to capitalize is a hang-over from some tourist agency or ministry's desire to capitalize the repetitive "river" in Tamagawa River --- as though people would not know it is a River if it were not capitalized.

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Fred Uleman

[Carl Freire]

On Sep 15, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Fred Uleman <ful...@jpnres.com> wrote:
>
> Would you capitalize Texas State? California State?

Chicago Manual of Style 7.40 (14th edition): Yes, in fact you would, though the exact form should depend on the proper name of each state. The two examples in 7.40 are "Washington State" but "the State of California." When I was editing Asian Survey, formal names of internal political divisions in all countries were always capitalized based on 7.40, hence Chiba Prefecture, etc. (and again there are examples in 7.40, though not of Japanese units specifically). Similarly, I can't think of any academic writing on Japan in which you don't see this. The same goes for rivers, lakes, oceans, etc. Nothing to do with the Japanese government; everything to do with standard editing conventions (the problem there is more one of resisting the urge to write, for example, Sumidagawa River instead of Sumida River). I can't find my AP Style Manual to see how they handle it, but this be how CMOS handles it.

And back to the original post, it gets complicated as CMOS 7.43 in the 14th ed. made a switch in recommended practices. "The University of Chicago Press now recommends that when a generic term is used in the plural either before and after more than one proper name, the term should be capitalized if, in the singular form and in the same position, it would be recognized as part of each name. Formerly such plural terms were capitalized on when preceding the proper names.

Lakes Erie and Huron
Mounts Everest and Rainier
the Adirondack and Catskill Mountains
the Hudson and MIssissippi Rivers
but
the rivers Hudson and Mississippi"

I still go by the old style and would write "Chiba and Saitama prefectures," but there's the argument for "Chiba and Saitama Prefectures." Maybe in newer eds. of CMOS there are more changes--anyone with a more recent edition at hand care to pipe in?

Muddying the waters,
Carl

**********

Carl Freire
Tokyo

mailing list address:
cpfl...@carlfreire.com

[Alan]

I would capitalize "State of California" if I was referring to the government entity in a formal context. But I would not use the word "state" or capitalize it if I was just referring to the geographical area bounded by the state lines.

Best,

Alan

---

From: Fred Uleman
Sent: ‎9/‎14/‎2015 7:39 PM
To: hon...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Capitalization of prefecture etc

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[Fred Uleman]

And this gets further complicated if you look at New York City, which I intentionally did not cite as an example. <grin>

Wonder about, say, Pennsylvania. The state of Pennsylvania = ok. Pennsylvania State = not okay unless you mean the university. Pennsylvania state = maybe okay. But technically, it is a Commonwealth.

[Lipsett Edward]

I think NYC is a special case, because there is a New York State, and they need (often) to make the difference clear. 

Saying Los Angeles City2 or “Chicago City” is unheard of, because there’s no confusion.

So your first thought was correct: leave NYC out of it!

Edward Lipsett

From: Honyaku Group <hon...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Fred Uleman <ful...@jpnres.com>
Reply-To: Honyaku Group <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 2015年9月15日火曜日 12:51
To: Honyaku Group <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Capitalization of prefecture etc

[Fred Uleman]

Leaving NYC out is good for clarifying English style.

     But there are many Japanese prefectures where we have both the city and the prefecture by the same name (a la New York City and New York State). Osaka is just one that comes to mind. Which is why I thought NYC/NYS might be instructive if it were not so confusing. <g>

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Fred Uleman

​ @ glad he's not doing that translation

[Lipsett Edward]

Yes, living in Fukuoka as I do, I am often forced to specify city and prefecture in jobs, and since the end client is often the local government, they are almost always capitalized. 

Edward Lipsett

From: Honyaku Group <hon...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Fred Uleman <ful...@jpnres.com>
Reply-To: Honyaku Group <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Date: 2015年9月15日火曜日 13:32
To: Honyaku Group <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: Capitalization of prefecture etc

[Geoff Trousselot]

> the Hudson and MIssissippi Rivers
> but
> the rivers Hudson and Mississippi"

Just thought to look in the National Geographic Style Guide. It concurs on the former but suggests capital for the latter. It also has an entry for prefecture (says to capitalize but doesn't mention plural).

Anyway, I think I will change to capitalizing prefectures on both fronts. For corporate clients at least.

BTW, the Wikipedia article on Japanese prefectures seems to capitalize.

Geoffrey Trousselot

[Jens Wilkinson]

> On 2015/09/15, at 11:27, Geoff Trousselot <geoff.tr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When using a rule to capitalize prefecture, I am thinking it is normal to write Tochigi Prefecture but Tochigi and Fukushima prefectures. Prefecture with lower case. I don't know how to verify this.
>

I guess the justification I use is to consider whether the second part is part of a proper noun or merely a description. NYC is actually an interesting case because the "city" is not formally part of the name but functionally is. When I lived in another part of the state, people called it "the city," never "New York." In cases like Salt Lake City or Carson City I would alway capitalize the city since it is clearly part of the name.

I would normally write Saitama Prefecture because I feel the "prefecture" is part of the names. When you say "Saitama and Chiba prefectures" it seems ambiguous whether it's part of the names or a description, so I could go either way.

Jens Wilkinson