Chief Factor and governor
mika jz
Factor and governor in the snippet below should be translated into
Japanese?
Googling ハドソン湾 マクラフリン renders a variety of titles, but which one
should it be?
I find one googit 総裁 for ハドソンベイ カンパニー シンプソン but could this be it?
Fort Vancouver: Cultural Landscape Report (Chapter 1, Volume 1)
In 1824, George Simpson, the governor of the Hudson's Bay Company's
Northern Department, ordered the ... Under the leadership of Chief
Factor Dr. John McLoughlin, Fort Vancouver dominated the fur-trade
industry and became the ...
清水美香 Mika Shimizu Jarmusz
Salem, Oregon USA
David Farnsworth
For factor, my Kenkyusha E-J actually has this meaning of factor in it.
Suggestions in Kenkyusha include 代理人 仲買人 問屋 委託販売人
I think that any of these are OK. 代理人 sounds most modern. The others
sound a little more archaic, which may be better, since factor is itself an
archaic term no longer used much in this sense.
David Farnsworth
Tigard OR 97224
mika jz
figure in the Pacific Northwest history.
To me, Chief Factor has to be more important than that....?
http://www.reference.com/search?q=John%20McLoughlin
Oregon Country
In 1824 the Hudson's Bay Company appointed McLoughlin as Chief Factor
of the Columbia District (which Americans know as the Oregon Country),
which comprised 600,000 square miles (1,600,000 km²) between Mexican
California and Russian America (Alaska), with Peter Skene Ogden
appointed to assist him. At the time, the region was under cooperative
settlement of both the United States and Britain. Upon his arrival, he
determined that the headquarters of the company at Fort Astoria (now
Astoria, Oregon) at the mouth of the Columbia River was unfit. As a
replacement he built Fort Vancouver (now Vancouver, Washington) across
the Columbia at the mouth of the Willamette River.
Mika Jarmusz
Mullins Douglas
From a Wikipedia entry on, Opperhoofd, a similar title in Dutch
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opperhoofd):
...this article is devoted to its more former, historical use as a
gubernatorial title, comparable to the English Chief factor, for the
chief executive officer of a Dutch factory (in the sense of trading
post, as lead by a Factor, i.e. agent)
A simple Internet dictionary search also gives the definition as 'One
who acts for someone else; an agent', and in fact is the second meaning
given in a list of six (below definition simply chosen from the Google
'definition' line:
http://www.answers.com/factor&r=67
And then there is the following Wikipedia article on Dr. John
McLoughlin ('the father of Oregon') himself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McLoughlin
Douglas Mullins
Tom Donahue
> Thak you David, but we're talking about the Dr. McLoughlin, a key
> figure in the Pacific Northwest history.
> To me, Chief Factor has to be more important than that....?
I liked David's suggestion of 代理人, but another way to put it
would probably be "chief trader". Factor is still sometimes used
in the financial side of trading, as in "export factoring".
Anyway here's a reference for the Hudson's Bay Company.
Chief Factor: Head HBC official appointed to oversee all social,
economic, political aspects at major fur trade posts.
http://metisstudies.dev.kcdc.ca/glossary.php
--
Tom Donahue
Benjamin Barrett
地管理人.
However, the Wikipedia entry for the HBC has this interesting snippet:
The company founded its first headquarters at Fort Nelson at the mouth
of the Nelson River in present-day northeastern Manitoba. The location
afforded convenient access to the fort from the vast interior waterway
systems of the Saskatchewan and Red rivers. Other posts were quickly
established around the southern edge of Hudson Bay in Manitoba and
present-day Ontario and Quebec. Called "factories" (because the
"factor", i.e. a person acting as a mercantile agent, did business from
there), these posts operated in the manner of the Dutch fur trading
operations in New Netherland.
Based on that, Shogakuan includes 口銭問屋・商事代理業者 as glosses for
the 商業 meaning of factor. These appears to come from the meanings of
(as DF mentions) 問屋・仲売人・代理人・代理業者 classified as 英・古.
HTH
Benjamin Barrett
a cyberbreath for language life
livinglanguages.wordpress.com
David Farnsworth
But we are looking for a translation of the word "factor" are we not?
I looked it up, and found that it is derived from the word "factory", which
in those days did not mean a "manufacturing plant" but rather a "trading
station" where traders set up shop with the natives. Which is exactly what
Astoria and then Vancouver were. McLoughlin was "head of station".
The East India Company also used the word "factor". Perhaps you could Google
that company's history as well, to see how it is used there.
David Farnsworth
----- Original Message -----
From: "mika jz" <mjz-...@comcast.net>
To: "Honyaku E<>J translation list" <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Mika Jz
question your knowledge.
It was that I had a problem with the fact that the Japanese terms
presented by you and Benjamin all seem to describe "types of
occupation", or what they do, whereas I realize I was (and still am)
looking for a TITLE that describes Dr. McLoughlin himself.
?????, ?????
????·??????
??·???·???·????
I know, Chief Factor IS an occupation, you say, but when written in
Japanese, the "importance" of the Chief Factor seems to be lost with the
upper case letters...
What I can glean online to choose from are:
?????????
????
?????
????
?????
Given the link Tom found us:
Chief Factor: Head HBC official appointed to oversee all social,
economic, political aspects at major fur trade posts. Example, York
Factory and Lower Fort Garry. These men often returned to Europe after
their term in office. This position was coined after the term Factory,
which was used to describe posts at one point in the early stages of
trade.
I am in favor of ????. I really appreciate the help you have given me.
Mika Jarmusz
Salem, Oregon USA
mika jz
---------------------------
Thank you Tom, Mullins and Benjamin, and sorry David I didn't mean to
question your knowledge.
It was that I had a problem with the fact that the Japanese terms
presented by you and Benjamin all seem to describe "types of
occupation", or what they do, whereas I realize I was (and still am)
looking for a TITLE that describes Dr. McLoughlin himself.
口銭問屋・商事代理業者
問屋・仲売人・代理人・代理業者
I know, Chief Factor IS an occupation, you say, but when written in
Japanese, the "importance" of the Chief Factor seems to be lost with
the upper case letters...
What I can glean online to choose from are:
太平洋地域総責任者
総支配人
現地責任者
交易所長
最高責任者
Given the link Tom found us:
Chief Factor: Head HBC official appointed to oversee all social,
economic, political aspects at major fur trade posts. Example, York
Factory and Lower Fort Garry. These men often returned to Europe
after their term in office. This position was coined after the term
Factory, which was used to describe posts at one point in the early
stages of trade.
I am in favor of 交易所長. I really appreciate the help you have given
Mullins Douglas
> Could someone well-versed in history shed some light on how Chief
> Factor and governor in the snippet below should be translated into
> Japanese? Googling ハドソン湾 マクラフリン renders a variety of titles, but which
> one
> should it be?
Googling 'ハドソン湾会社' and 'McLoughlin' yields the following paper by a
Prof. Nakagawa Misao from the Osaka Univ. of Economics:
http://www.osaka-ue.ac.jp/gakkai/pdf/ronshu/2005/5601_trans_nakagawa.pdf
There are specific references to McLoughlin, and the chosen Japanese
for 'Chief Factor John McLoughlin' is '総支配人ジョン マクローリン'. Not intuitively
connected closely in meaning with 'representative', but since the line
of command would run from the king of England to the governor of the
Hudson's Bay Company to the Chief Factors, I think the meaning can be
made to fit with a translation like that chosen by Nakagawa in the
paper above. (After all, the Chief Factors were in direct charge of
huge colonial territories.)
> Googling ハドソン湾 マクラフリン renders a variety of titles, but which one
> should it be?
My particular search strategy result in only one hit (out of 46 total)
with both Japanese and English. I'd be more interested to see what you
have found.
HTH,
Douglas Mullins
Alan Siegrist
> I am in favor of 交易所長.
I think 交易所長 is a great translation for "factor" but you were asking
about the "chief factor" which is in charge of many of these factors and
factories in a large geographical area. In a modern company, this would be
something like a regional vice president.
Regards,
Alan Siegrist
Orinda, CA, USA
AlanFS...@Comcast.net
Mika Jz
I might modify it a bit to read like:
Dr. McLaughlin
Regional Vice President, Hudson's Bay Company
This project is not academic, so the choice is not that critical (phew),
and 太平洋地域総責任者 may not be so off, except it just sounds too, um,
global.
Thanks!
Mika