CHAT: Saying "Great minds think alike" in Japanese
Kirill Sereda
英雄所見略同
is the Chinese version. What would be a concise Japanese one? Something that is a correspondence, and not simply a translation?
Kirill Sereda
DJB
No guarantee that is just a translation, but most results that I found
point to 賢人は皆同じように考えるものだ。 as the equivalent Japanese
proverb.
This Wiki site lists the English, Chinese, and Japanese (and other) versions.
http://www.thefullwiki.org/great_minds_think_alike
- Dan in Yokohama
-----------------------
Dan Burgess
canuck....@gmail.com
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Kirill Sereda
Thanks a lot! 賢人は皆同じように考えるものだ does not look like a true Japanese proverb; it appears to be a translation from English.
What I am surprised about is that the general idea is present in Europe, in the Arabic/Persian liguistic world, in India, and in China, but not in Japan.
I am sure there is a correspondence, but to find it you have to let go of words and hold on to the meaning.
Kirill
Marc Adler
is the Chinese version. What would be a concise Japanese one? Something that is a correspondence, and not simply a translation?
My gut feeling is that it would be rather un-Japanese to say something like that?
以心伝心、異口同音, etc. might be the closest.
--
Michael Hendry
> Obviously, my question is how do you say "great minds think alike" in
> Japanese?
I've heard "あっ！一緒一緒！" in a similar situation where we might use the
proverb in English.
Michael Hendry, in Newcastle Australia
Kirill Sereda
Yes, the suggestions are fantastic, thanks Marc. However, “以心伝心” is very much about nonverbal communication in Chinese and I suppose in Japanese, while “異口同音” appears to have been strongly attached to the meaning “[proletarian?:)] masses saying one thing with one mouth” (something like that must be published in NK newpapers these days), WHEREAS, in Chinese “異口同音” is in fact very close to the western “great minds think alike”.
Kirill Sereda
Fred Uleman
--
Fred Uleman, translator emeritus
Mika J.
「賢者だけに通じるものがある」という表現、今ぱっと思いつきません。
以心伝心には
意思疎通できるようになれ、それで普通。
あたりまえになれ、というとらえ方がありはしないでしょうか。
Mika Jarmusz 清水美香
English to Japanese Translator
http://inJapanese.us
James Lazo
WHEREAS, in Chinese “異口同音” is in fact very close to the western “great minds think alike”.
Kirill Sereda
As far as I know, in Chinese (and since recently I’ve been reading only Ancient Chinese, I may be wrong about modern usage) the emphasis is on happy coincidence of opinions (mind to mind, P2P), not on any kind of overwhelming political majority or unison (group vs individual):
不同人说同样的话，形容看法、意见完全一致
http://baike.baidu.com/view/2322997.htm
“DIFFERENT people saying the same thing, refers to views, opinions being exactly the same.”
Kirill Sereda
-----Original Message-----
From: hon...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:hon...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of James Lazo
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2010
8:35 PM
To: hon...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: CHAT: Saying
"Great minds think alike" in Japanese
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 20:21, Kirill Sereda <kvse...@att.net> wrote:
--
James Lazo
James Lazo
Rene
From: "Kirill Sereda" <kvse...@att.net>
Obviously, my question is how do you say "great minds think alike" in Japanese?
I've heard "あっ！一緒一緒！" in a similar situation where we might use the proverb in English.
That does not suggest any great minds, though :-)
Regards
Rene von Rentzell
Kirill Sereda
What I am trying to say here is that the expression (yi kou tong xin) does not have to refer to a massive group of people having similar views (or slogans), and it can be used to indicate a coincidence between two minds only.
Kirill Sereda
James Lazo
What I am trying to say here is that the expression (yi kou tong xin) does not have to refer to a massive group of people having similar views (or slogans), and it can be used to indicate a coincidence between two minds only.
Kirill Sereda
--
Kirill Sereda
Besides, look at the expression carefully: “異口” tells us that a single basic idea is delivered through different language, definitions, etc. This not not exactly “unison” to me, not a very group-like behavior, which would involve adopting set phrases (同口) that everybody repeats to show their membership in the group.
Kirill Sereda
James Lazo
Besides, look at the expression carefully: “異口” tells us that a single basic idea is delivered through different language, definitions, etc. This not not exactly “unison” to me, not a very group-like behavior, which would involve adopting set phrases (同口) that everybody repeats to show their membership in the group.
Kirill Sereda
--
Doreen Simmons
as a proverb; it's simply an ironic rejoinder meaning "I'm glad you agree with me".
Finding something on Wiki, too, is no guarantee that it's correct; why, the Wiki
article on Japan's Imperial Family can't even get the titles of the Emperor and Empress right.
(I'll give you a clue: only the Princes and Princesses have 'Imperial' in the middle of their titles.)
I wrote to the Japan imes a few weeks ago pointing out that they were making the same mistake in
their paid-for National Day messages from ambassadors; the effect last one week.
FWIW,
Doreen
>Kirill,
>
>No guarantee that is just a translation, but most results that I found
>point to 賢人は皆同じように考えるものだ。 as the equivalent Japanese
>proverb.
>
>This Wiki site lists the English, Chinese, and Japanese (and other) versions.
>http://www.thefullwiki.org/great_minds_think_alike
>
>- Dan in Yokohama
>
Doreen Simmons
jz8d...@asahi-net.or.jp
Mika J.
偶然であれ意図的に口をそろえているのであれ、
単なる現象なのであって
「傑出している」という意味合いはないと思います。
なので"great minds think alike"には不適切なはずです。
以心伝心の方は「伝わる自分は偉いのだ」などと思い上がらない分だけ
余計にgreat mindsだと思うのですが、そう思うのは私だけでしょうか。
>it's simply an ironic rejoinder meaning "I'm glad you agree with me".
B. Hyman
JZ8D...@asahi-net.or.jp (Doreen Simmons) wrote:
> I'm mystified. I've been hearing it since I was a kid, but certainly not
> as a proverb; it's simply an ironic rejoinder meaning "I'm glad you agree with me".
This is the closest explanation that agrees with my (UK) experience of
the usage. It was often followed by the second half, which then gives
you the full version:
"Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ."
FWIW,
---------------------------------------------
Brian Hyman
Email: mli...@yokomoji.com
URL: http://www.yokomoji.com/en/
Blog: http://www.yokomoji.com/en/blog/
---------------------------------------------
Tom Donahue
Right. I might offer something like さすがに天才の考え方が違う。
--
Tom Donahue
Rene
Come again? Isn´t that the opposite of the saying, or am I missing something?
Best,
Rene von Rentzell
Mark Spahn
> I might offer something like さすがに天才の考え方が違う。
> -- Tom Donahue
Is this ambiguous? What is different from what? Two possibilities:
(1) Geniuses think differently from each;
each genius has his own unique perspective.
(2) Geniuses think differently from non-geniuses;
we geniuses all come up with the same brilliant solution.
(This meaning (2) is analogous to the saying in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina
that "Happy families are all alike;
every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.")
The さすがに is a good (a great-mind) touch.
In my experience, "Great minds think alike" is almost
always used in a humorous or an ironic, self-mocking way:
"Oh, you had the same idea that I had? Well, great minds think alike."
-- Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
Mark Spahn
Right. I might offer something like さすがに天才の考え方が違う。
Best, Rene von Rentzell
Chika Kamiya
Alexandru Pojoga
What an interesting phrase. I suppose it's somewhat close to "It takes
one to know one".
Alexandru Pojoga
2010年12月27日17:29 Chika Kamiya <chik...@smile.ocn.ne.jp>:
>
> 名将は名将を知る
>
> とかもこの格言の類ですかな．．．
> http://www.sanabo.com/kotowaza/arc/2001/11/post_1240.html
>
>
> Chika
Mika J.
Chika さんにお座布団です！
The previous suggestion had grammatical issues, although to me さすがに part successfully carries, say, 67% of the message.
The following should both translate well from "great minds think alike" in the sense that common folks can't think like the great minds do, which I believe is the original interpretation for which Kirill was looking translation for.
さすがに天才は考え方が違う。
さすがに天才の考え方は違う。
Chika Kamiya
「Chika さんにお座布団です！」
わーい！
Marc Adler
On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 7:55 PM, Kirill Sereda <kvse...@att.net> wrote:is the Chinese version. What would be a concise Japanese one? Something that is a correspondence, and not simply a translation?
My gut feeling is that it would be rather un-Japanese to say something like that?
以心伝心、異口同音, etc. might be the closest.
Set phrases aside, in Japanese an emphatic そうでしょう！ or ほらやっぱりね！ or ほら！ね？ or でしょう？でしょう？ is what I'd use. :)
--
Rene
> 名将は名将を知る
Chika さんにお座布団です！
The previous suggestion had grammatical issues, although to me さすがに part successfully carries, say, 67% of the message.
The following should both translate well from "great minds think alike" in the sense that common folks can't think like the great minds do, which I believe is the original interpretation for which Kirill was looking translation for.
さすがに天才は考え方が違う。
さすがに天才の考え方は違う。
I think you completely misunderstand the orginal interpretation of the expression! Or is it me who has heard this all wrong every time I am in English-speaking company?
Afaik, it has nothing to do with admiring great minds at all; it is simply an ironic comment on people having the same idea at the same time. So if anything, your translation should be:
さすがに天才は考え方がいっしょう。
I have never that in Japanese company, but I´ll try it at the next opportunity.
Rene von Rentzell
Tokyo
Mika J.
Although 名将は名将を知る may not get much usage compared to the English expression, it can take on a suitable tongue-in-cheek quality, with a bit of a stretch.
>さすがに天才は考え方がいっしょう。
What does that mean? (Even after removing the う, and spelling the last 4 characters into 一緒, that is.)
>I have never that in Japanese company, but I´ll try it at the next opportunity.
Rene
>さすがに天才は考え方がいっしょう。
What does that mean? (Even after removing the う, and spelling the last 4 characters into 一緒, that is.)
That was your phrase, remember? I simply tried to point out that it is the opposite of the meaning of the English phrase, so if it is to make sense at all, you´d have to replace the "chigau" with "isshou",
Again, you said:
"The following should both translate well from "great minds think alike" in the sense that common folks can't think like the great minds do, which I believe is the original interpretation for which Kirill was looking translation for."
Just my 2 yen
Best
Rene von Rentzell
Andreas Rusterholz
> 2010/12/28 Mika J. <mik...@gmail.com>
>
> > >さすがに天才は考え方がいっしょう。
> > What does that mean? (Even after removing the う, and spelling the last 4
> > characters into 一緒, that is.)
>
> all, you´d have to replace the "chigau" with "isshou",
>
> Just my 2 yen
> Best
> Rene von Rentzell
Probably you intended to write いっしょ （一緒）, but that wouldn't be correct
Japanese (～が同じです or something similar would fit).
Andreas R.
Andreas Rusterholz
> Mika J's question was: What does いっしょう (isshou) mean?
> Probably you intended to write いっしょ （一緒）, but that wouldn't be correct
> Japanese (～が同じです or something similar would fit).
>
> Andreas R.
... but that wouldn't be used in written Japanese (～が同じです or something
similar would fit).
Of course you can say that in spoken Japanese.
Andreas R.
Rene
Well. Was anybody thinking about writing here? The only time I hear the phrase in English is when one (usually lubricated) great mind says that jokingly to another great mind.
Best
Rene von Rentzell, Tokyo
Tom Donahue
> Well. Was anybody thinking about writing here? The only time I hear the
> phrase in English is when one (usually lubricated) great mind says that
> jokingly to another great mind.
I think you could handle that in the previous sentence. Something like
僕と一緒！さすがに天才は考え方が違う。
It is interesting that as you said it's backwards.
--
Tom Donahue
Chika Kamiya
(｢蜀書・龐統伝」注「江東伝｣).
「君は以前周瑜の元に居たが、私が呉に赴いたとき、周瑜が孫権に、私を呉に留め置くように進言していたときいたがそれは事実か」
龐統は「事実です」と答えた。
劉備は溜息をつきながら「天下の知謀の士というものは大体同じことを考えるものだな。そのとき孔明は、私に呉に行くなと諌めていたのだが、やはりそのことを心配してのことだったのだ」と語った。
Chika Kamiya
--
demayer
> Is "GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE" a joke to tease another great mind? Oh my... I don't think I knew it. And this is what I don't want to know.
I've joked this way many times, and can assure you that on no occasion was there any great mind involved in the conversation. <g>
> If "Great minds think alike" is the translation of
英雄所見略同, it is very sad for 歴女 (women who like history-based literatures) like me. If NES say we must use this English phrase as interpreted by NES, NJS will do as needed, although it sounds very disrespectful to great Chinese history. At least, for me.
I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and all agreed that you can use the phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
Regards,
Dave Mayer, Taipei
Chika Kamiya
Dwight Van Winkle
work？
Chika Kamiya
I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and all agreed that you can use the phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
Chika Kamiya
I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and all agreed that you can use the phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
Marc Adler
So for the British retort "fools seldom differ," would 「さすがに馬鹿の考え方が一緒」
work？
Marc Adler
さすがに天才は考え方がいっしょう。
You've misunderstood what 違う refers to in 考え方が違う. It's comparing geniuses to normal people: さすがに天才の考え方は[普通の人の考え方と]違うね。
Also, it's いっしょ (一緒), not いっしょう.
As for the larger topic, I think we have come close to approximating something that might suit Kirill, but, again, how often do you hear 名将は名将ぞ知る? I'm guessing not very often, which is why even our resident 名将 Mika J didn't come up with it. And as for the 天才 version: my gut feeling is that this is more likely to be interpreted as a self-effacing compliment to someone else, just as almost all さすが[...]違うね comments are: さすがシェフの味覚は違うね、さすが師範の筆の持ち方は違うね, etc., etc.
Marc Adler
>
> Is "GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE" a joke to tease another great mind? Oh my... I don't think I knew it. And this is what I don't want to know.
> 呂范亦勸留之。權以曹操在北，方當廣攬英雄，不從。 備還公安，久乃聞之，歎曰「天下智謀之士 (great minds)，所見略同。時孔明諫孤莫行，其意亦慮此也。孤方危急，不得不往，此誠險塗，殆不免周瑜之手」
> (｢蜀書・龐統伝」注「江東伝｣).
>
> ある時、劉備は龐統にたずねた。
> 「君は以前周瑜の元に居たが、私が呉に赴いたとき、周瑜が孫権に、私を呉に留め置くように進言していたときいたがそれは事実か」
> 龐統は「事実です」と答えた。
> 劉備は溜息をつきながら「天下の知謀の士というものは大体同じことを考えるものだな。そのとき孔明は、私に呉に行くなと諌めていたのだが、やはりそのことを心配してのことだったのだ」と語った。
--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com
Marc Adler
> > If "Great minds think alike" is the translation of 英雄所見略同, it is very sad for 歴女 (women who like history-based literatures) like me. If NES say we must use this English phrase as interpreted by NES, NJS will do as needed, although it sounds very disrespectful to great Chinese history. At least, for me.
> I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and all agreed that you can use the phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
So, obviously, there is some confusion here. And I think the source of the confusion is this: the phrase "great minds think alike" is, yes, indeed used ironically when including oneself in the "great minds" category, but can be used without any irony---indeed, with respect---when referring to others. And I'll bet this applies to the Chinese phrase as well.
--
Marc Adler
www.adlerpacific.com
Mika J.
It occurs to me that the "great minds" tends to be replaced with the "common characteristics" in Japanese; lower the denominator the better.
やっぱ貧乏人！
さすが5連敗！
さすが主婦ぅ～！
さすがバイト！
関西人でんな！
さすが＿＿校生！
やっぱり＿＿校出身は違うね！
And yes, the verb 違う can fit in all of the above.
As Marc pointed out, when positive words like 天才 or 名将 is used, the utterance is more likely towards others, as in "wow, I hadn't thought of that," which indeed MEANS the opposite of our English expression. I must admit it took me a while to see this topsy-turvy aspect of our word usage.
>Chika＠がっかり、がっかり
でもねChikaさん、レトリックってそういうものじゃないですか。
さりげなく褒めながら当てこすりするとか、
英語にも「日本語と同じぐらい」あると思います。
（そう書きながら自分でショック受けてますが。）
私なんぞおめでた過ぎて、まだほとんど英語わかってないです、絶対。
この「言葉の使い方」に対する文化の違いに気づいておかないと、
いい翻訳はできないですね、きっと。
Chika Kamiya
> That's fascinating! I particularly love the ほぼおなじ qualification---so practical, so realistic. :)
I am so glad. ご同輩 (歴男) とお見受けいたします！
And you wrote:
So, obviously, there is some confusion here. And I think the source of the confusion is this: the phrase "great minds think alike" is, yes, indeed used ironically when including oneself in the "great minds" category, but can be used without any irony---indeed, with respect---when referring to others And I'll bet this applies to the Chinese phrase as well.
Confusion, indeed. 英雄所見略同 and "Great minds think alike" are interpreted in an sarcastic way as well as an respectful way.
I got it. Thank you.
For the former, '下手の考え休むに似たり' is close, perharps.
Ah, 一つ賢くなりました。ありがとうございます。 m(_ _)m
Chika
Chika Kamiya
>でもねChikaさん、レトリックってそういうものじゃないですか。
Marc Adler
女性をからかう意味で？女の浅知恵ってわけですか？
不是！：）
ほめ言葉としての使い方において、女性に対しても使える、ということです。
皮肉な使い方においても女性に対して使うこともあるでしょうけれども、デーヴさんの言わんとする（と僕が母語者の勘を頼りに推測する）意味は男女平等にこの中国語のフレーズは使える、ということだと思います。アイロニックな謙遜だろうとも、褒め称えだろうとも、大っぴらな蔑みだろうとも、男女平等に、と。
Mika J.
幾通りの解釈がある表現と。
どちらととるかの見極めは、常に翻訳する者の迷いですね。
Let me present my "rough" translation for the archive.
やっぱ貧乏人！ Poor people think alike.
さすが5連敗！Losers think alike.
さすが主婦ぅ～！Housewives think alike.
さすがバイト！ Part time workers think alike.
関西人でんな！Kansai locals think alike.
さすが＿＿校生！Students of the ___school think alike.
やっぱり＿＿校出身は違うね！Alumni of the ___school think alike.
Richard Thieme
In other words, if "great minds think
> alike" is just an ironic one-off whose meaning is actually "we're all the
> same" or something, then to say that this phrase is the same as 英雄所見略同
> is to
> disrespect Chinese history, since the Chinese phrase is definitely
Hmm. Well wait a minute.
Certainly we use it in an ironic sense. But the statement "great minds think
alike" about Newton and Liebnitz wouldn't be out of place in a book about
the development of calculus. So yes, we do use it in that direct sense when
we are truly talking about "great minds."
Regards,
Richard Thieme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc Adler" <marc....@gmail.com>
To: <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2010 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: CHAT: Saying "Great minds think alike" in Japanese
> 2010/12/28 demayer <dem...@oop.gov.tw>
>
>> > If "Great minds think alike" is the translation of 英雄所見略同, it is
>> > very
> sad for 歴女 (women who like history-based literatures) like me. If NES
> say we
> must use this English phrase as interpreted by NES, NJS will do as needed,
> although it sounds very disrespectful to great Chinese history. At least,
> for me.
>
>> I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and
>> all
> agreed that you can use the phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
>
> I think what she meant was that it would be sad for a history fanatic like
> her, because if what people in this thread are saying about the English
> phrase is true, then the English phrase and the Chinese phrase are at
> extreme variance with each other (in her eyes), and yet everyone is
> claiming
> that they correspond to one another. In other words, if "great minds think
> alike" is just an ironic one-off whose meaning is actually "we're all the
> same" or something, then to say that this phrase is the same as 英雄所見略同
> is to
> disrespect Chinese history, since the Chinese phrase is definitely
> *not*just some cocktail party quip.
>
> So, obviously, there is some confusion here. And I think the source of the
> confusion is this: the phrase "great minds think alike" is, yes, indeed
> used
> ironically when including oneself in the "great minds" category, but can
> be
> used without any irony---indeed, with respect---when referring to others.
> And I'll bet this applies to the Chinese phrase as well.
>
> --
> Marc Adler
> www.adlerpacific.com
>
Roland Hechtenberg
> Certainly we use it in an ironic sense. But the statement "great
> minds think alike" about Newton and Liebnitz wouldn't be out of
> place in a book about the development of calculus. So yes, we do
> use it in that direct sense when we are truly talking about
> "great minds."
Have you ever heard, read, or used it in this sense?
I haven't, and did Leibnitz and Newton really think alike?
Have fun,
Roland
--
Roland Hechtenberg
Technical translator
Japanese > English <> German
rol...@ictv.ne.jp
Richard Thieme
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Hechtenberg" <rol...@ictv.ne.jp>
To: <hon...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2010 9:55 AM
Subject: Re: CHAT: Saying "Great minds think alike" in Japanese
> On 2010/12/29 8:51, Richard Thieme wrote:
>
>> Certainly we use it in an ironic sense. But the statement "great
>> minds think alike" about Newton and Liebnitz wouldn't be out of
>> place in a book about the development of calculus. So yes, we do
>> use it in that direct sense when we are truly talking about
>> "great minds."
>
> Have you ever heard, read, or used it in this sense?
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/great-minds-think-alike.html
> I haven't, and did Leibnitz and Newton really think alike?
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_and_Newton_calculus_controversy
> Have fun,
Have google,
>
> Roland
Richard
Kirill Sereda
>>Have you ever heard, read, or used it in this sense?
minds:
Great Minds Think Alike
How Alfred Wallace Came to Share Darwin's Revolutionary Insight
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/great-minds-think-alike.html
But not everyone watches PBS.
k
demayer
>> I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and all agreed that you can use the phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
> え？ ほんとですか？
> やだなぁ、ほんとがっかりだわぁ。
> 女性をからかう意味で？
> 女の浅知恵ってわけですか？
Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to get you all upset, Chika. Marc has already cleared up what I was trying to say, but just to repeat, I wasn't trying to suggest anything like 女の浅知恵. The five native speakers I talked to were all women, by the way, and the joking at issue is just good-natured banter, not mean-spirited sarcasm.
Ciao
Dave M, Taipei
demayer
2010/12/28 demayer <dem...@oop.gov.tw>
> > > If "Great minds think alike" is the translation
of 英雄所見略同, it is very sad for 歴女 (women who like history-based
literatures) like me. If NES say we must use this English
phrase as interpreted by NES, NJS will do as needed, although it
sounds very disrespectful to great Chinese history. At least, for me.
> > I asked five native Chinese speaking co-workers about 英雄所見略同, and all agreed that you can use the
phrase to joke about a woman's great mind.
> I think what she meant was that it would be sad for a history fanatic like
her, because if what people in this thread are saying about the English phrase
is true, then the English phrase and the Chinese phrase are at extreme variance
with each other (in her eyes), and yet everyone is claiming that they
correspond to one another. In other words, if "great minds think
alike" is just an ironic one-off whose meaning is actually "we're all
the same" or something, then to say that this phrase is the same as 英雄所見略同 is to disrespect Chinese history, since
the Chinese phrase is definitely not
just some cocktail party quip.
You've done an excellent job of channeling everybody on this one, Marc. Hats off!
Dave M, Taipei
Roland Hechtenberg
>> Have you ever heard, read, or used it in this sense?
>
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/great-minds-think-alike.html
So now I also have read it, but I don't expect to hear it in this
sense.
> Have google,
Good point.
Have fun (and Google),
Roland Hechtenberg
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leibniz_and_Newton_calculus_controversy
>
>> Have fun,
>
> Have google,
>
>>
>> Roland
>
> Richard
>
Marc Adler
Hmm. Well wait a minute.
Just to clarify, I was describing the confusion, not stating my views.
--
Chika Kamiya
Mika J.
新年の発展繁栄を願いつつ年末の題材を継いでみます。
１）偉人の意味でのGreat minds
"Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ."
「賢人は共鳴する。愚人は同調する。」などはいかがでしょうか。
２）自分事としてのGreat minds
英語表現を教える場合は直訳でもこと足りますが、
http://eigo-eddy-blog.seesaa.net/article/170195857.html
これは「解説」であって翻訳とはまた違いますね。
通常の日本語環境の会話に使う場合は、
「賢人・偉人・名将」を自称することは芸人的、お芝居的になるので、
単に「同じ意見です」と相づちを打つだけであれば、
所属グループ名に置き換えるなどがやはり一案かと。
貧乏人や関西人のほかに「勝ち組」も
冗談まじりに使うにはいいかもしれませんが
Great minds と「勝ち組」はやはり意味的には雲泥の差ですので
使う場合は要注意です。
３）「違う」と「一緒・同じ」
個人的な意見ですが「さすが関西人だね。」または「さすが関西人は違うね。」は文脈が特になくても相づちとして完結しています。
ところが「違う」を「同じ/一緒」に入れ替えて「さすが関西人は同じだね。」としてみると、文脈依存の割合が大きくなるのか、伝わらない部分を残すようです。（何が同じなワケ？一体何の話なの？）会話の話題が「考え方の地域差」である旨をはなから双方が理解しているときには前記のままでも通じるかも知れませんが、そうでない場合は「さすが関西人は【考え方が】同じだね。」などと補足の必要があるようです。
とりあえず思いつくままに書いてみました。
今年もよろしくお願いします。