Takekurabe by Higuchi Ichiyo

[Mary Kennard]

Does anyone have either of the translations of this book? I need to know the first line of the book -

廻れば大門の見返り柳いと長けれど…

Of if someone could help me figure out a reasonable translation...

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,

Mary Kennard

[Susan Murata]

Don't have the book, but for what it is worth, here is one version: The way around to the Grand Gates and the turn-back willow is rather long,...

From http://no-sword.jp/takekurabe/chapter-one.html

Susan Murata

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Honyaku E<>J translation list" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to honyaku+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

Susan Murata
smu...@gmail.com

[Geoffrey Trousselot]

Seidensticker's version:

It is a long way around to the main gate of the Yoshiwara, the licensed quarter, to the willows with their trailing branches; but the Yoshiwara moat, dark like the smiles of the black-toothed beauties, reflects the lights and the sport in the three-storied houses near enough to touch.

(From Donald Keene's anthology via Google books)

Geoffrey Trousselot

Mary Kennard <mske...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Herman]

On 14/03/16 01:36, Geoffrey Trousselot wrote:
> Seidensticker's version:
>
> It is a long way around to the main gate of the Yoshiwara, the licensed
> quarter, to the willows with their trailing branches; but the Yoshiwara
> moat, dark like the smiles of the black-toothed beauties, reflects the
> lights and the sport in the three-storied houses near enough to touch.
>
> (From Donald Keene's anthology via Google books)
> Geoffrey Trousselot
>

> Mary Kennard <mske...@gmail.com <mailto:mske...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have either of the translations of this book? I need to
> know the first line of the book -
>
> 廻れば大門の見返り柳いと長けれど…
>

Not that this has any practical significance, but it is curious to note
that the two English translations that have been cited both reverse the
geography when compared to the source text: namely, the translations
suggest that you go through the gate to get to the willow, while the
Japanese text suggests that you would go past the willow to get to the
gate.

Herman Kahn

[Kevin Steinbach]

>he two English translations that have been cited both reverse the geography when compared to the source text: namely, the translations suggest that you go through the gate to get to the willow, while the Japanese text suggests that you would go past the willow to get to the gate.

I think the two translations are both a bit ambiguous, actually; "to the [gates]...and the willow" and "to the gates...to the willows" both seem to locate the "gates" and "willows" in roughly the same spot, but not any particular order.

As I look at the Japanese, I think the phrase 大門の見返り柳 is really "the look-back willows at the main gates" (whether the trees be inside or outside the gates).

Kevin

[Herman]

On 14/03/16 11:40, Kevin Steinbach wrote:
> >he two English translations that have been cited both reverse the
> geography when compared to the source text: namely, the translations
> suggest that you go through the gate to get to the willow, while the
> Japanese text suggests that you would go past the willow to get to the gate.
>
> I think the two translations are both a bit ambiguous, actually; "to the
> [gates]...and the willow" and "to the gates...to the willows" both seem
> to locate the "gates" and "willows" in roughly the same spot, but not
> any particular order.
>
> As I look at the Japanese, I think the phrase 大門の見返り柳 is really
> "the look-back willows at the main gates" (whether the trees be inside
> or outside the gates).
>

To make a play on words between いと長い＝とても長い and いと長い＝糸柳
の糸が長い, which Seidensticker attempts to capture with "to the willows
with their trailing branches", the author places the verb at the
beginning of the sentence, but logically, the most likely relationship
would have to be 大門の見返り柳を廻ればいと長い, which would in turn
logically expand to 見返り柳を廻れば大門から入ると道のりがいと長い, i.e.
a circuitous path whereby you have to go past the look-back willow to
get to the main gate.

Also 大門の見返り柳 would suggest 大門を見返るところの柳. It would make
much more sense for people to look back at a special place after leaving
it than to look back at the gate/road after entering, so this also
suggests that the willow must be a certain distance outside the gate.

By contrast, the two English texts, by virtue of the sequence of words,
"to the gates and the willows" suggest that the willows come after the
gates (or are at the same place).

Herman Kahn