[OT] How do you spell 'kapeesh'?
Alan Siegrist
Please indulge me and let me ask a question that, while not directly related
to translation, may be indirectly related.
I have heard the expression 'kapeesh?' used as an informal or slang way of
asking 'do you understand?' for most of my life, but I don't think I have
seen it in print. I cannot find it in any dictionary so I don't really know
how the word should be spelled.
I believe it comes from the Italian word 'capisci' (the tu form of capire,
to understand) but should the word be spelled in the Italian manner when
used to represent the English slang?
On the web, I find various spellings such as 'kapeesh' 'capeesh' or
'capiche' but nothing definitive.
Any advice?
Regards,
Alan Siegrist
Orinda, CA, USA
AlanFS...@Comcast.net
Brian Watson
'capisce': 3rd person singular present indicative of the verb 'capire'
Brian Watson
http://www.studiomomo.com
+1.604.395.4202 (home office), +1.425.246.7888 (cell), +1.425.484.6429 (fax)
Nora Stevens Heath
> I believe it comes from the Italian word 'capisci' (the tu form of capire,
> to understand) but should the word be spelled in the Italian manner when
> used to represent the English slang?
I believe "capisce" is the most accepted spelling.
Nora
--
Nora Stevens Heath <no...@fumizuki.com>
J-E translations: http://www.fumizuki.com/
Karen Sandness
of Italian dialects, and they are indeed varied. I can't remember any
specific examples, except one from real life: most of the
Italian-Americans in New Haven, Connecticut trace their ancestry to the
same region of Italy, one where "pizza" is "apizza" and Mozzarella
cheese is pronounced "mootsarell." (My encounters with the Italian
immigrant community there were mostly in restaurants.)
Pepperonily yours,
Karen Sandness
Alan Siegrist
> It may be a dialect form of "capisce."
Thank you, Karen, Brian and Nora. It may very well be a dialect form of the
word and not necessarily an authentic Italian word in its form as appearing
in Italian-American slang.
I just found this item in Wiktionary:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capisce
The interesting bits were:
| English
|
| Alternative spellings
| capice, capicé, capiche, capeesh, capisch, capishe, coppish, kabish,
| kapeesh, kapiesh, kapisch, gabbishe, gabishe, gabeesh.
and
| 1997 Eric Bogosian. Notes from Underground, page 138
| It's very simple, George, you forget about this whole licensing lawsuit
| pipe dream of yours or you can forget about your buddy working in my
| factory for the next couple of years. I will be that angry. Capiche?
|
| 2003 Richard Chiappone. Water of an Undetermined Depth
| I mean, if you were coming into the plant for the long haul, God forbid,
| then you'd have to think seriously about the money. Capiche?
and
| It is important to underline that this is NOT an Italian word, in the
| use in American English here described.
|
| It is one of a set of Italian-American words not part of the use of the
| Italian language.
I found it interesting to note that the spelling "Capiche?" was used in the
two citations of the word as appearing in edited literature.
If the word is in fact a dialect form, it may very well be justifiable to
use an anglicized spelling that differs from the standard spelling of the
word capisce in Italian.
Capiche, paisano?
Warren Smith
|
| Alternative spellings
| capice, capicé, capiche, capeesh, capisch, capishe, coppish, kabish,
| kapeesh, kapiesh, kapisch, gabbishe, gabishe, gabeesh.
---------------
This is the type of thing to which the Google plebocracy is ideally suited.
It looks to me like Nora's and Brian's suggestion ("capisce") is the
hands-down winner, capisce?
W
Matthew Schlecht
> It may be a dialect form of "capisce."
Thank you, Karen, Brian and Nora. It may very well be a dialect form of the
word and not necessarily an authentic Italian word in its form as appearing
in Italian-American slang.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
I believe that "capisce" as a word is full-blooded Italian. I heard
this word used by Italian tourists at the Bolshoi Theater in Moscow (ca.
1978) when an attendant accused them gruffly (in Russian) of having damaged
the opera glasses they had rented, to which the accused replied "Chi
capisce?" "Who understands?"
Maybe was is meant in the extensive Wiki citations that I snipped is
that the use of the single word "capisce" in the sense of an admonition,
warning or implied threat is an American invention, in which case it is
equivalent to "versteh" in Yiddish, and "get it" or the more lengthy "you
know what I'm talkin' about" in English; all likely products of gangland
culture that flourished here since the late 19th century. Isn't the melting
pot wonderful?
The variety of orthographical representations could derive from
regional accents or dialects (Neapolitan, Sicilian, Genovese, etc.)
Matthew Schlecht
Alan Siegrist
Capisce. It certainly looks so, but an awful lot of the hits on the spelling
'capisce' are on pages written in Italian, since this appears to be the
correct spelling of a common Italian word. I am really only interested in
the use and spelling of the word in English, not Italian. I am not sure how
to filter out those Italian hits.
The spellings capice (capicé) and capiche are roughly tied for second,
followed by capish, kapeesh, capeesh, kapisch and capisch in this order,
with the others trailing far behind.
Regards,
Alan Siegrist
> an awful lot of the hits on the spelling
> 'capisce' are on pages written in Italian, since this appears to be the
> correct spelling of a common Italian word. I am really only interested in
> the use and spelling of the word in English, not Italian. I am not sure
> how to filter out those Italian hits.
When I used the Google language tools to set the language to English before
searching, I find that 'capisce' is still most numerous, but 'capiche' is a
close second. The difference (131K vs 78K) is not nearly as overwhelming as
when no language was specified.
Kirill Sereda
Capisce = "he/she understands" OR "your honor understands = you understand"
(in FORMAL speech, using Lei)
I personally doubt that "kapeesh" comes from the formal "capisce".
k
TimL...@aol.com
Jacqueline W
FWIW, I'm going to throw my vote in with "capiche".
Kirill Sereda wrote:
> "You understand" = capisci (in informal speech using tu)
>
> Capisce = "he/she understands" OR "your honor understands = you understand"
> (in FORMAL speech, using Lei)
>
> I personally doubt that "kapeesh" comes from the formal "capisce".
>
> k
Actually, I'm fairly certain that "kapeesh" derives from a bastardised
version of "capisce". Pop culture can do such a thing to a word, and
when something becomes a catch phrase, then you're going to see an
awful lot of different varieties come of whatever was the original
term. I'm sure that "capisce" is the formal Italian word as the more
informed can educate me, but in terms of English slang, then I assure
you there will be many who will barely understand "capisce", but may
freely use variations of "kapeesh", "capiche" or "capich" in casual
conversation. They didn't learn the meaning of the word as an Italian
verb, they learnt it from their friends or from movies, comics,
books... and simply emulate the usage as they see it occur in that
context.
Alan Siegrist wrote:
>
> > an awful lot of the hits on the spelling
> > 'capisce' are on pages written in Italian, since this appears to be the
> > correct spelling of a common Italian word. I am really only interested in
> > the use and spelling of the word in English, not Italian. I am not sure
> > how to filter out those Italian hits.
Something else may well be the proper and accepted spelling, but in
terms of slang, well anything goes! With no knowledge of Italian, all
I can tell you is that "capiche" is the spelling I have seen most used
in the (English only) mediums that I have encountered it in.
HTH,
Jacqueline Woo.
Marc Adler
> I believe that "capisce" as a word is full-blooded Italian. I heard
> this word used by Italian tourists at the Bolshoi Theater in Moscow (ca.
> 1978) when an attendant accused them gruffly (in Russian) of having damaged
> the opera glasses they had rented, to which the accused replied "Chi
> capisce?" "Who understands?"
So "capisce" is the third person, but as our resident polyglot Kirill
(rubish'?) pointed out, when you're talking to someone, it's "capisci?"
in standard Italian. The phrase in question is Sicilian, tho, so who
knows. Brazilian Portuguese has almost completely gotten rid of the
second-person forms, so if something similar happened in Sicilian, then
"capisce" would do double duty as second and third person.
> equivalent to "versteh" in Yiddish, and "get it" or the more lengthy "you
> know what I'm talkin' about" in English;
I prefer "dig?" for its conciseness, although of course it probably
wasn't around in 1920's Chicago.
> The variety of orthographical representations could derive from
> regional accents or dialects (Neapolitan, Sicilian, Genovese, etc.)
In the Hollywood version of "Mafiaworld", it's Sicilian. In fact, an
Italian friend in high school told me that when they dubbed "The
Godfather" into Italian, they used standard Italian for the English
parts, and Sicilian for the parts spoken in Italian (ostensibly spoken
in Sicilian in the movie, too, but apparently it wasn't very well done -
accents, etc.), adding subtitles in standard Italian for those parts,
since Sicilian it pretty much opaque to your Giovanni on the street in
Rome.
--
Marc Adler
Austin, TX
Karen Sandness
"Lei," the polite second person pronoun, is used with third-person verb
forms, just like its Spanish counterpart, "usted."
Given the contexts in which "kapeesh" is used, I suspect that its
origin is more likely to be the informal second person form "capisci."
After all, Italian-Americans who still retain their ancestral language
are likely to have picked it up at home, not in the types of formal
contexts in which people address one another as "Lei."
As far as the misspelling "capiche" is concerned, that could come from
writers who don't know Italian and think that the word comes from
French.
Surmisingly yours,
Karen Sandness
Matthew Schlecht
>
>> I believe that "capisce" as a word is full-blooded Italian. I heard
>> this word used by Italian tourists at the Bolshoi Theater in Moscow (ca.
>> 1978) when an attendant accused them gruffly (in Russian) of having
>> damaged
>> the opera glasses they had rented, to which the accused replied "Chi
>> capisce?" "Who understands?"
>
> So "capisce" is the third person
The character of the final vocalic sound is doubtless also subject to
regional variation. I left it on because I recall the speaker ending with
at least a hint of it.
> In the Hollywood version of "Mafiaworld", it's Sicilian. In fact, an
> Italian friend in high school told me that when they dubbed "The
> Godfather" into Italian, they used standard Italian for the English
> parts, and Sicilian for the parts spoken in Italian
Now, _that's_ a clever use of language!
> (ostensibly spoken
> in Sicilian in the movie, too, but apparently it wasn't very well done -
> accents, etc.), adding subtitles in standard Italian for those parts,
> since Sicilian it pretty much opaque to your Giovanni on the street in
> Rome.
A normal evolutionary approach would suggest that geographical
proximity correlates with dialectic similarity, but Sicily has been a
Mediterranean crossroads for millennia, and simple linguistic models don't
hold. No wonder they feel like a different people from the mainland
Italians.
Matthew Schlecht
James Sparks
> I personally doubt that "kapeesh" comes from the formal "capisce".
This, which has been pointed out by several people now, is the key
point. The "Kapeesh?" that is used in modern Amlish is synonymous with
"You feeling (pronounced "fillin") me?," both of which have a very
informal tone, whereas capisce has a more formal register. This
difference is akin to わかった? (or even いいか？) versus わかりますか.
Plus, the final I of capisci is almost completely unvoiced in standard
Italian (I know little about the Sicilian flavor, so I can't comment on
that), just like the final vowel sound in です. The final E of capisce,
on the other hand, is more vocalized. This also makes it more likely
that the "kapeesh" we use comes from capisci (which is indeed pronounced
almost exactly as kapeesh in Italian).
Finally, "ch" in Italian (all dialects, as far as I know) is pronounced
as K, so "capiche" would be ka-PEE-kay. That version, therefore, is
unacceptable to me.
Of course, Alan is asking about how to spell this in English, and
foreign words sometimes change their spelling upon immigrating. For
example, the Japanese word 少し is romanized as sukoshi, but in its
English mode the proper spelling is skosh, as in "Give me a skosh more
coffee." Therefore, all bets are off when it comes to how English
speakers who don't know Italian will write Italian words.
Incidentally, given the enormous influence of Italian immigrants in
this country, I find it interesting that Italian is so routinely
mispronounced by Americans, even Italian-Americans. To give just two
examples, the names of baseball player Jason Giambi and musician Chuck
Mangione are pronounced as gee-AM-bee and man-jee-OH-nee, respectively,
instead of JAHM-bee and man-JOAN-nay (and I don't mean with the exact
Italian pronunciation, but rather the Amlish approximation thereof).
Nevertheless, since we on this list pride ourselves as professional
writers, I'd like to think that we will want to use the most correct
form, and since no real standard spelling of this word "kapeesh" has
been established in English (unlike the case of skosh), I think it
behooves us to spell it as in Italian, or capisci. I mean, we are,
after all, the cognoscenti, not the conyoshenti or, God forbid, the
cog-no-SEN-ti.
James Sparks
Alan Siegrist
> In the Hollywood version of "Mafiaworld", it's Sicilian.
Now that might be a promising tack to take. If it is indeed a word in the
Sicilian dialect, I suppose the "correct" spelling would be how the word is
spelled in Sicilian. I am not quite sure how to determine that, though.
Some extremely anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that some Sicilians (or
Sicilian wannabees) prefer to spell it "capice". See:
http://www.fencing.net/forums//archive/index.php/t-14572.html
> what the hell is capisce? it's Capice, goddamnit! C-A-P-I-C-E!
> If you are speaking with a Sicilian accent, it is pronounced "gabeesh."
http://www.thedonovan.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=5733
> The word: Capice (pronounced cap-ish and not spelt Capiche),
Regards,
Adam Rice
> 'capiche' but nothing definitive.
>
> Any advice?
Personally, I spell it "fershtay." But "capisce" would be a good
alternative.
Adam Rice | adam...@8stars.org
Austin TX USA | http://www.8stars.org
Marc Adler
> been established in English (unlike the case of skosh), I think it
> behooves us to spell it as in Italian, or capisci. I mean, we are,
But this is Sicilian, which, as the Sci.-lang. ver. of Wikipedia points
out, is considered a different language from Italian.* The question is
how an Italian writer writing in standard Italian would communicate how
the word is pronounced, to an audience of native Italian speakers.
* http://scn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_siciliana
"Ethnologue (viditi sutta) discrivi lu sicilianu comu na lingua
abbastanti distinta di l'italianu tantu di putìrilu cunziddirari na
lingua siparata." (Of course, the fact that anyone with even a modicum
of Italian can read that sentence would indicate that it really isn't
that different.)
James Sparks
>>been established in English (unlike the case of skosh), I think it
>>behooves us to spell it as in Italian, or capisci.
>
Yes, I agree that the English use of this word probably comes from
Sicilian, or at least the Hollywood version thereof. And as has been
noted, the spelling in Silician may be capice. If that is the case, and
it can be verified,* then I would concede that that spelling variant
might be more appropriate than the capisci spelling of standard Italian.
However, Italians from all over Italy utter this phrase regularly, so
it's hardly unique to Sicilian, and in the movies where I have heard it
used, it is always pronounced as capisci/kapeesh.
My point, though, is that we should try to use SOME correct version, as
opposed to something like "capiche," which is a bastardization of French
pronunciation (with which Americans are more familiar; e.g., quiche) and
Italian grammar.
* Check out the following site, where a presumedly native Italian
answers this question as follows.
Italian term or phrase: capice
Italian
English translation:do you understand? do you get it?
usually in the form of a question; the standard Italian form should be
"capisci" (second person, informal) or "capisce" (third person, formal)
In the American form the last vowel is dropped, but in Italian all
vowels are pronounced.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/174623
That last part about all vowels being pronounced may be technically
true (I won't argue with a native), but I can attest to the fact that
the final I in capisci is very, very hard to hear, if it's voiced at all.
James Sparks
Benjamin Barrett
> Incidentally, given the enormous influence of Italian immigrants in
> this country, I find it interesting that Italian is so routinely
> mispronounced by Americans, even Italian-Americans. To give just two
> examples, the names of baseball player Jason Giambi and musician Chuck
> Mangione are pronounced as gee-AM-bee and man-jee-OH-nee, respectively,
> instead of JAHM-bee and man-JOAN-nay (and I don't mean with the exact
> Italian pronunciation, but rather the Amlish approximation thereof).
>
differently. BB
Marc Adler
> noted, the spelling in Silician may be capice. If that is the case, and
> it can be verified,* then I would concede that that spelling variant
> might be more appropriate than the capisci spelling of standard Italian.
http://scn.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verbi_Rigulari
The correct conjugation of capire in Sicilian is capiscu, capisci,
capisci, (etc.), and I imagine that in real life this is realized as
[kapisku], [kapiS], [kapiS].
There is evidence on the web for "capisc'" being used by Italians
amongst themselves to indicate how it's pronounced in Sicilian (google
[capisc siciliano]), although that wouldn't make any sense to an American.
The problem I have with "capisci" is that it's too "normal," too
"correct" to really express the Mafioso-ness of the word in an
American/Hollywood/Sopranos context.
For American consumption, I'd probably compromise with "capeesh."
James Sparks
> For American consumption, I'd probably compromise with "capeesh."
And I would have no trouble with that, as it is obviously an American
coinage. I just don't like capiche (ka-PEE-kay) or capische
(ka-PEE-skay). Those two are just not right. <g>
Striving to uphold the purity of the Italian language <w>,
Giacomo Scintille
Alan Siegrist
> Italian is so routinely
> mispronounced by Americans, even Italian-Americans. To give just two
> examples, the names of baseball player Jason Giambi and musician Chuck
> Mangione are pronounced as gee-AM-bee and man-jee-OH-nee, respectively,
> instead of JAHM-bee and man-JOAN-nay
But the point here is that these are Italian-American names that have been
anglicized. The same thing happens to the names of immigrants from all over
the world. When the names of Italians from Italy are pronounced, I think
there is more effort to pronounce the names with the Italian pronunciation.
For example, when the designer Gianni Versace was murdered, his first name
was consistently pronounced in the media not like gee-AN-nee but more like
the English name Johnny. Is this not closer to the Italian pronunciation?
Kirill Sereda
Sicily, and he says it's definitely the informal "tu" form, which is written
"capisci" in Calabrian, with the final "i" almost inaudible.
k
-----Original Message-----
From: hon...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hon...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Benjamin Barrett
>>> Those two are just not right. <g>
>>>
> Agreed! :) By the way, I asked a guy from Calabria, which is across from
> Sicily, and he says it's definitely the informal "tu" form, which is written
> "capisci" in Calabrian, with the final "i" almost inaudible.
>
Kirill Sereda
unvoiced.
k
-----Original Message-----
From: hon...@googlegroups.com [mailto:hon...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Benjamin Barrett
Sent: 2007?5?3? 20:41
To: hon...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [OT] How do you spell 'kapeesh'?
Benjamin Barrett
citations for it.
Thanks for that comment, which once again corrected phonology and
phonetics for me. I just can't keep those two straight! BB
Karen Sandness
language. Phonology is about how the sounds function within that
language. For example, "r" and "l" are different phonetically, no
matter what language one is speaking. They are produced with different
movements of the tongue and flows of air.
In English, these sounds also differ phonologically, because we have
what are called "minimal pairs," words that are distinguished only by
the difference between those two sounds, such as "lake" and "rake."
However, Japanese features a sound somewhere between "r" and "l" that
can drift in either direction without changing the meaning of a word.
In Japanese, "r" and "l" do not differ phonologically.
Linguistics reviewingly yours,
Karen Sandness