riyou vs shiyou
Adam Rice
source software, and the author makes a very precise distinction
between 利用 and 使用:
利用と使用を区別する
著作物の*利用*とは、印刷したり録音したり、それ
を配布するといった使い方を指します。例えば、本誌
のような冊子であれば、印刷・出版することが利用に
なります。
ところが、本を読むことは利用にはあたりません。
著作権の考え方では、このような使い方を使用として
区別します。*使用*については、著作権者の許可は必
要なく自由に行えます。また、利用についても、教育
や引用などの特定の用途であれば自由に行えます。
This is an interesting translation challenge. I could certainly
translate around it, but I like the way he's phrasing this and would
like to stay close to it in my translation.
Also, I'm curious if this distinction sounds intuitively correct to
native Japanese speakers. I've always vaguely understood that 利用
carries a nuance of more potency than 使用, but I've never been aware
of such a sharp and distinct difference between the words.
thanks in advance,
Adam Rice :: Austin TX USA :: adam...@8stars.org :: http://8stars.org
Richard Thieme
imports of copyrighted goods that were not actually reprinted or copied on a
computer other than into virtual memory.
He wound up using "exploit" for 利用 but it really requires a paragraph of
explanation as introduction.
Regards,
Richard Thieme
----- Original Message -----
送信者 : "Adam Rice" <adam...@8stars.org>
宛先 : "Honyaku" <hon...@googlegroups.com>
送信日時 : 2008年9月11日 12:41
件名 : riyou vs shiyou
Kirill Sereda
Sometimes, esp. when dealing with digital content, 利用 can rendered as "usage" and 使用 as "access".
>>I've always vaguely understood that 利用 carries a nuance of more potency than 使用, but I've never been aware of such a sharp and distinct difference between the words.
利用 contains 利, which means "advantage", "profit", therefore 利用 means "use X to one's advantage, for profit". On the other hand, the word 使用 contains 使, which originally meant "command", "send" ("使" or "使者" meant "messenger" in Ancient Chinese), or "employ" (as a servant). E.g. in The Analects, Duke Ding asks Confucious how a prince should employ his ministers, and how ministers should serve their prince："君使臣，臣事君，如之何?"
Accordingly, I normally tend to translate 利用 as "utilize" and 使用 as "employ".
k
"Kume Etsuko (久米悦子）"
調べてみました。
「利用」と「使用」の違い
http://www.kisc.meiji.ac.jp/~pz03013/report/word/use.html
「フェアユース」fair use
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%85%AC%E6%AD%A3%E4%BD%BF%E7%94%A8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use
私なら、
利用をuse for profit
使用は、個々に限定された目的での利用だと思うので
本を読むことは、personal use
教育的な利用は、educational useなどと限定した形で訳すか
単にuseとすると思います。
sls
Some time ago i had come up with two (not quite mutually compatible)
hypotheses, before other things took over my mind and this issue faded
away somewhat (but since it is still unresolved in my mind, Adam's post
has re-awakened my interest). :-)
One hypothesis was/is that "利用" tends to work well when one talks
about something that (in principle) does not change, degrade, or
disappear in the process of being used (like a salt-shaker, a toilet, a
telephone) while "使用" tends to work well when one talks about
something that or is somehow rendered less usable or unusable in the
process (like salt, toilet paper, a telephone card), and the other
hypothesis was/is that "利用" tends to apply to things or facilities
that one lends or makes available to others while "使用" tends to apply
to things belonging to, and being used by, oneself or one's in-group.
I hope i will learn more or something new now. :-)
Regards: Hendrik
--
--------------------------------------
Enjoy MLB with MAJOR.JP! Ichiro, Matsuzaka, Matsui, and more!
http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/mlb/
sls
> Sometimes, esp. when dealing with digital content, 利用 can rendered as "usage"
> and 使用 as "access".
[...]
> [...] I normally tend to translate 利用 as "utilize" and 使用 as "employ".
Hi,
how would you distinguish these terms in a non-technical and
non-translation context, say, in regards to goods and services that
people use (use up/ utilize/ make use of/ employ/ take advantage of/
etc.) in the course of daily life activities?
Thanks: Hendrik
Laurie Berman (Sekiguchi)
On 2008/09/11, at 7:15, sls wrote:
> how would you distinguish these terms in a non-technical and
> non-translation context, say, in regards to goods and services that
> people use (use up/ utilize/ make use of/ employ/ take advantage of/
> etc.) in the course of daily life activities?
As was mentioned, 利用 carries the implication of profiting from
use, while 使用 is neutral. Depending on the context, 利用する
could be translated "make use of," "put to use," or "take advantage
of," or even "tap," all of which carry some nuance of profiting from
use, or using profitably.
But (needless to say) the nuance of 利用 varies according to
context, just as the nuance of "use" differs in the following examples:
"Use the automatic setting."
"He used me!"
As for other possibilities you mention--
"Use up" means to use something until there's nothing left to use,
i.e., 使い切る, so I would not ordinarily use it to translate
either 使用 or 利用.
"Utilize," to my ears, is a word one utilizes <g> when one wants more
syllables. I try to steer clear of it--unless, of course, I'm working
for a client with an unshakable preference for multi-syllabic words. ;-)
Laurie Berman
berma...@comcast.net
Shinya Suzuki
> "Utilize," to my ears, is a word one utilizes <g> when one wants more
> syllables. I try to steer clear of it--unless, of course, I'm working
> for a client with an unshakable preference for multi-syllabic words. ;-)
That's what most usage books (e.g., Fowler) say. But "utilize" and "use"
can have different nuances as explained below.
<Quote>
A number of critics have remarked that utilize is an unnecessary
substitute for use. It is true that many occurrences of utilize could be
replaced by use with no loss to anything but pretentiousness, ... But
utilize can mean *to find a profitable or practical use for.* Thus the
sentence "The teachers were unable to use the new computers" might mean
only that the teachers were unable to turn the computers on, whereas
"The teachers were unable to utilize the new computers" suggests that
the teachers could not find ways to employ the computers in instruction.
<Unquote>
(American Heritage Dictionary)
Interestingly, the above distinction between "utilize" and "use" seems
somewhat similar to the distinction between 利用する and 使用する.
Shinya Suzuki
Laurie Berman (Sekiguchi)
On 2008/09/11, at 9:39, Shinya Suzuki wrote:
> <Quote>
> A number of critics have remarked that utilize is an unnecessary
> substitute for use. It is true that many occurrences of utilize
> could be
> replaced by use with no loss to anything but pretentiousness, ... But
> utilize can mean *to find a profitable or practical use for.* Thus the
> sentence "The teachers were unable to use the new computers" might
> mean
> only that the teachers were unable to turn the computers on, whereas
> "The teachers were unable to utilize the new computers" suggests that
> the teachers could not find ways to employ the computers in
> instruction.
> <Unquote>
> (American Heritage Dictionary)
Well, that IS interesting. I was not aware of that definition, and it
helps explain why "utilize" comes up so often as an English
translation for 利用する. Even so, I think the reason the style
books admonish against the use of "utilize" (an admonition of which I
was not conscious) is that that specific meaning has been lost in
current usage (at least current American usage), with the result that
even well-educated native speakers would tend to interpret "The
teachers were unable to utilize the new computers" as a stuffy way of
saying "The teachers were unable to use the computers." For that
reason I will continue to steer clear of it when I can, but I will be
more sympathetic towards those who use it as a translation of 利
用する。
Laurie Berman
berma...@comcast.net
Marc Adler
> even well-educated native speakers would tend to interpret "The
> teachers were unable to utilize the new computers" as a stuffy way of
> saying "The teachers were unable to use the computers."
Actually, I think it depends on how the rest of the document is
written. If the writer demonstrates a predilection for overutilization
of multisyllabic locutions :-), then the reader is probably pretty
safe in assuming that "utilize" is being used as a highfalutin synonym
for "use." If the writer uses plain, unadorned language in the rest of
the document, on the other hand, then the reader can be pretty sure
that the writer is using the word "utilize" correctly.
This is one of the pitfalls of bad writing.
Marc Adler
sls
>
> On 2008/09/11, at 7:15, sls wrote:
>
>> how would you distinguish these terms in a non-technical and
>> non-translation context, say, in regards to goods and services that
>> people use (use up/ utilize/ make use of/ employ/ take advantage of/
>> etc.) in the course of daily life activities?
>
> As was mentioned, 利用 carries the implication of profiting from
> use, while 使用 is neutral. Depending on the context, 利用する
> could be translated "make use of," "put to use," or "take advantage
> of," or even "tap," all of which carry some nuance of profiting from
> use, or using profitably.
>
> But (needless to say) the nuance of 利用 varies according to
> context, just as the nuance of "use" differs in the following examples:
> "Use the automatic setting."
> "He used me!"
>
> As for other possibilities you mention--
>
> "Use up" means to use something until there's nothing left to use,
> i.e., 使い切る, so I would not ordinarily use it to translate
> either 使用 or 利用.
profiting from use
自然（天然）塩をご利用ください
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neutral
自然（天然）塩をご使用ください
シャワーをご使用ください
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地図をご利用ください
sls
entering search data in preparation for a post, the unfinished message
was sent out when i hit "enter" to add an empty line...
Puzzled in stormy Ishigaki: Hendrik
William Taylor
>for "use." If
In the same sense couldn`t 利用be though of as a highfalutin synonym for
使用？
William Taylor
sls
>
> On 2008/09/11, at 7:15, sls wrote:
>
>> how would you distinguish these terms in a non-technical and
>> non-translation context, say, in regards to goods and services that
>> people use (use up/ utilize/ make use of/ employ/ take advantage of/
>> etc.) in the course of daily life activities?
>
> As was mentioned, 利用 carries the implication of profiting from
> use, while 使用 is neutral. Depending on the context, 利用する
> could be translated "make use of," "put to use," or "take advantage
> of," or even "tap," all of which carry some nuance of profiting from
> use, or using profitably.
Hi (and following up on a previous topic), many thanks for the comment.
If the distinction between 使用 and 利用 is _only_ this kind of
emphasis, then i would hypothesize that it should be possible to find
usage samples for either in any given context - but that does not seem
to be the case, thus i already know taking a narrow (binary) view does
not work (as i would expect when it comes to language). In any case, i
have a third "road map" to work with now...
Thanks & regards: Hendrik