Working with ttx files

[Steven P. Venti]

A client has asked me to do a translation directly in a ttx file. I
don't use Trados but find that I can open and edit the file in Excel
without problem. My question is: Does anyone know if Excel, when saving
the edited file, adds extraneous data that might cause problems for the
next person who tries to use it as a ttx file?

TIA

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Steven P. Venti
Mail: spv...@bhk-limited.com
Rockport Sunday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCPpd20CgXE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Rene]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Steven P. Venti <spv...@bhk-limited.com> wrote:

A client has asked me to do a translation directly in a ttx file. I
don't use Trados but find that I can open and edit the file in Excel
without problem. My question is: Does anyone know if Excel, when saving
the edited file, adds extraneous data that might cause problems for the
next person who tries to use it as a ttx file?

I have never even heard or thought of editing a TTX file in Excel. I am glad that it works for you.
Basically, TTX is RTF format with added information, so I would have suggested to you to copy it into Word, work on it, save it as RTF and rename to TTX.

Regards
Rene von Rentzell
 

TIA

-----------------------------------------------------------------
  Steven P. Venti
  Mail: spv...@bhk-limited.com
  Rockport Sunday
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCPpd20CgXE
-----------------------------------------------------------------

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Honyaku Mailing list.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to honyaku+u...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku?hl=en?hl=en

[Ginstrom IT Solutions]

> On Behalf Of Rene

> Basically, TTX is RTF format with added information, so I would have
suggested
> to you to copy it into Word, work on it, save it as RTF and rename to TTX.
>

Actually, I believe that TTX is a (not quite standards-conformant) XML file,
in a bilingual (or multilingual) format.

The modern standard, which TTX predates, is XLIFF.
http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/xliff-core/xliff-core.html

I'm not aware of any published standard for TTX, although it may be possible
to find a schema file for it.

Trados usually puts the text-segment formatting in its own dialect of rich
text format (RTF), but this isn't always the case. It depends on the format
of the source document.

Ryan Ginstrom

[Steven P. Venti]

Thanks to Rene and Ryan for their comments.

This was something of a rush job with a file format that I was
unprepared for, so I really wasn't sure what I was dealing with.

It seems that the file was (some kind of) xml format, and it kept
crashing Excel for me. Through trial and error, I finally was able to
copy the text into Word and do the translation that way, but I'm afraid
the people at the agency got stuck cutting and pasting the text into the
ttx file.

Anyone interested in starting a "Just say No to Excel" campaign for
translators? lol

[Rene]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Steven P. Venti <spv...@bhk-limited.com> wrote:

Thanks to Rene and Ryan for their comments.

This was something of a rush job with a file format that I was
unprepared for, so I really wasn't sure what I was dealing with.

It seems that the file was (some kind of) xml format, and it kept
crashing Excel for me. Through trial and error, I finally was able to
copy the text into Word and do the translation that way, but I'm afraid
the people at the agency got stuck cutting and pasting the text into the
ttx file.

Anyone interested in starting a "Just say No to Excel" campaign for
translators? lol

Excel is a horrible format for text. Don´t even get me started listing all the reasons why a spreadsheet program should never be used for text editing.

Excel No Thanks

Regards
Rene von Rentzell

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

On Aug 9, 2011, at 9:06 AM, Ginstrom IT Solutions wrote:

> The modern standard, which TTX predates, is XLIFF.
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/xliff/xliff-core/xliff-core.html

TTX is a proprietary Trados format and as such does not predate XLIFF. In fact, I am pretty sure XLIFF was created when Trados was still using "bilingual RTF".

Trados has chosen to use XLIFF in the latest version of its software (Studio 2009 & following). The file extension is .sdlxliff.

> I'm not aware of any published standard for TTX, although it may be possible
> to find a schema file for it.

Nothing published. I am not even sure there is a schema for it but a while ago I found a file explaining the tags somewhere in a help file package.

Jean-Christophe Helary
----------------------------------------
fun: http://mac4translators.blogspot.com
work: http://www.doublet.jp (ja/en > fr)
tweets: http://twitter.com/brandelune

[Peter Clark]

Just for future reference.
 
There is no reliable way of using ttx outside of Tageditor. Somebody at some stage is going to get burnt.
 
My recommendation is to request the sender to Analyze the TTX in workbench, export unknown as RTF, and send the resulting file for translation.
 
The translator can be most helpful by returning a bilingual format file with trados segment tags (produced with trados, wordfast or a macro). If they can't do that, then return the translations in a table format, which can then be converted.
The sender can then translate the ttx quite comfortably in tageditor.
 
Peter Clark

[Minoru Mochizuki]

I am interested in the subject as I share the frustration in translating
documents constructed using Excel but I also wish to offer an advice.

It is not the fly-by-night translation outfits you would be dealing with.
Your job might be convincing large automobile manufacturers and such and
they can easily find more obedient translators.

Minoru Mochizuki in response to Steven's suggestion

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

On Aug 9, 2011, at 10:04 AM, Peter Clark wrote:

> Just for future reference. There is no reliable way of using ttx outside of Tageditor.

Indeed, but there are "good enough" workarounds. The TTX filter from Okapi is available as a plugin for OmegaT. Swordfish provides a converter to XLIFF etc.

> Somebody at some stage is going to get burnt.

If something does not work, report to the developers.

> My recommendation is to request the sender to Analyze the TTX in workbench, export unknown as RTF, and send the resulting file for translation. The translator can be most helpful by returning a bilingual format file with trados segment tags (produced with trados, wordfast or a macro). If they can't do that, then return the translations in a table format, which can then be converted.The sender can then translate the ttx quite comfortably in tageditor.

That implies that the sender is willing or able to go through all the loops in place of the translator.

[Doreen Simmons]

This must be why some of my clients still insist on using the fax (for which I have to pay...) 8-{

Doreen who tries to serve at all levels

>Just for future reference. There is no reliable way of using ttx outside of=
> Tageditor. Somebody at some stage is going to get burnt. My recommendation=
> is to request the sender to Analyze the TTX in workbench, export unknown a=
>s RTF, and send the resulting file for translation. The translator can be m=
>ost helpful by returning a bilingual format file with trados segment tags (=
>produced with trados, wordfast or a macro). If they can't do that, then ret=
>urn the translations in a table format, which can then be converted.The sen=
>der can then translate the ttx quite comfortably in tageditor. Peter Clark

[Baiz Yeh]

Hi Steven,

By now you should already find a way to translate the TTX file so not sure how helpful this would be but.

By all means, if you don't have the right editor (in this case TagEditor) and your client accept that you send them only the translated strings, as long as you can identify what needs to be translated you can use any tool of your choice.

If your client does want you to submit a legitimate TTX file, like many have already advised there are many ways you can translate the TTX without using TagEditor. However, I think this kind of conversion should be planned by whoever that sent you the job, because there are just too many considerations to be made when it comes to exchanging language data with users without the right tool, and in my opinion they are something you really shouldn't take account into (or it's too much for you, maybe.)

Call me conservative, but as a localization professional at the agent side I tend to manage every risk possible - if I was your client I'd either planing the whole process our side or we just send the work to people with the right tool, because I afraid you might break it (LOL.) After all, it's the translation quality that impress the customer the most, if you have good quality output to impress your client, personally file format or tool used are not that important. (if it's a huge or long project that you're doing then investing the right tool would be ideal of course.)

Hope it helps...

Baiz from Japan

[B. Hyman]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2011 16:24:05 +0900

"Steven P. Venti" <spv...@bhk-limited.com> wrote:

> Anyone interested in starting a "Just say No to Excel" campaign for
> translators? lol

Count me in!

English:
http://www.yokomoji.com/en/blog/?p=95

日本語:
http://www.yokomoji.com/jp/blog/?p=99

---------------------------------------------
Brian Hyman
Email: mli...@yokomoji.com
URL: http://www.yokomoji.com/en/
Blog: http://www.yokomoji.com/en/blog/
---------------------------------------------

[Evan Emswiler]

On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:38 AM, Rene <Yoi...@gmail.com> wrote:

Excel is a horrible format for text. Don´t even get me started listing all the reasons why a spreadsheet program should never be used for text editing.

I wouldn't say that. I use it all the time for translating video games, and it works rather well for that, especially since you can set it up to automatically calculate the number of characters in a cell (or its total "width").

But I agree that it's certainly not suitable for everything. I've had some people request that I do things in Excel that were clearly more suited for Word, and I told them so.

Evan Emswiler