就業形態計 and 産業計

[Dan Kanagy]

I wonder how you would translate 就業形態計 and 産業計 in the following
sentence. I've translated for many years, but I'm not sure I've run
across these terms before.

時間当たり賃金（就業形態計）は産業ごとに算出され、産業別のウェイトを固定して産業計が集計されるラスパイレス指数。

Thanks.

Dan Kanagy

[Motohiro Kojima]

Dan Kanagy様

https://www.mhlw.go.jp/toukei/itiran/roudou/koyou/keitai/03/kekka5.html

このページの最初にある表８の下の（注）に、

「１）（　）は、職種ごとの就業形態計を１００とした、正社員及び非正社員の割合である。」

と書かれています。

この「注」から推測すると、就業形態計とは、「就業形態別の合計」という意味では
ないでしょうか。

2023.12.01 09:34:35
===================================
小島基弘 <mthr...@imoduru.net>

[Motohiro Kojima]

Dan Kanagy様

すみません。訂正します。

「就業形態別の合計」ではなく、「就業形態すべての合計」と思われます。

"就業形態計"でGoogle検索すると、いろいろな資料がヒットしますので、
参考にしてください。

On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 09:45:26 +0900
Motohiro Kojima様 wrote:
|Dan Kanagy様
|
|https://www.mhlw.go.jp/toukei/itiran/roudou/koyou/keitai/03/kekka5.html
|
|このページの最初にある表８の下の（注）に、
|
|「１）（　）は、職種ごとの就業形態計を１００とした、正社員及び非正社員の割合である。」
|
|と書かれています。
|
|この「注」から推測すると、就業形態計とは、「就業形態別の合計」という意味では
|ないでしょうか。
|
|
|On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 15:49:32 +0900
|Dan Kanagy様 wrote:
||I wonder how you would translate 就業形態計 and 産業計 in the following sentence. I've translated for many years, but I'm not sure I've run across these terms before.
||
||時間当たり賃金（就業形態計）は産業ごとに算出され、産業別のウェイトを固定して産業計が集計されるラスパイレス指数。
||
||Thanks.
||
||Dan Kanagy

2023.12.01 11:21:31
===================================
小島基弘 <mthr...@imoduru.net>

[Richard Sadowsky]

Dan, that's the kind of question to ask ChatGPT (4), as in:

How you would translate the Japanese terms 就業形態計 and 産業計 in the following sentence: 時間当たり賃金（就業形態計）は産業ごとに算出され、産業別のウェイトを固定して産業計が集計されるラスパイレス指数。

Answer:

In the provided Japanese sentence, the terms "就業形態計" and "産業計" can be translated as follows:

- "就業形態計" (shūgyō keitai-kei) translates to "by employment type" or "employment type-based." It refers to the categorization or calculation of data based on different types of employment.
- "産業計" (sangyō-kei) translates to "by industry" or "industry-based." This term refers to the categorization or calculation of data based on different industries.

Therefore, the sentence "時間当たり賃金（就業形態計）は産業ごとに算出され、産業別のウェイトを固定して産業計が集計されるラスパイレス指数" can be translated as:

"The hourly wages (calculated by employment type) are computed for each industry, and the Laspeyres index is compiled with fixed weights for each industry (industry-based)."

------

Dan, you can be the judge of the answer, based on your experience.

------

I also asked Claude.ai...

What are the meanings of the Japanese terms 就業形態計 and 産業計 in the following sentence: 時間当たり賃金（就業形態計）は産業ごとに算出され、産業別のウェイトを固定して産業計が集計されるラスパイレス指数。

Answer:

This sentence is discussing how an index called the "Laspeyres index" is calculated for hourly wages in Japan. Let me break down the key terms:

就業形態計 (shūgyō keitai kei) - Refers to the "employment status basis". This means the hourly wage data is categorized by employment status (e.g. full-time, part-time, contract, etc.).

産業計 (sangyō kei) - Refers to the "industry basis". This means the data is aggregated at the industry level.

So in summary, the sentence is saying:

Hourly wages (by employment status basis) are calculated for each industry. Then the industry-level data is aggregated using fixed industry weights to produce the industry basis Laspeyres index.

So it's explaining the two-step process of first calculating hourly wages by industry and employment status, and then aggregating the industry-level data into an overall index. The key point is that industry categories are fixed as the data is compiled into the Laspeyres index.

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[Richard Sadowsky]

Bard is also quite helpful:

In the sentence "時間当たり賃金（就業形態計）は産業ごとに算出され、産業別のウェイトを固定して産業計が集計されるラスパイレス指数。",

• 就業形態計 (shokugyo keitai kei) means "employment status classification". It refers to a classification of workers based on their employment status, such as regular employees, non-regular employees, or the self-employed.
• 産業計 (sangyo kei) means "industry classification". It refers to a classification of businesses based on their industry, such as manufacturing, services, or agriculture.

The sentence can be translated as follows:

"The hourly wage (employment status classification) is calculated for each industry, and the industry index is compiled by fixing the weights for each industry using the Laspeyres index."

In other words, the hourly wage is calculated separately for each industry, based on the employment status of the workers in that industry. The industry index is then compiled by combining the hourly wages for each industry, using the Laspeyres index.

The Laspeyres index is a price index that measures the change in prices of a basket of goods or services over time, using the prices of the base period as the weights. In this case, the basket of goods or services is the hourly wages for each industry. The base period is the time period for which the hourly wages are first calculated.

By using the Laspeyres index, the industry index reflects the change in the average hourly wage for each industry, taking into account the relative importance of each industry.

[Kevin Johnson]

First of all, Motohiro Kojima's second answer (not included in this thread) is correct.

But I think it's odd that all three AI answers kind of miss the mark on the explanation of the meaning. Might I suggest a good ol' Google search of "就業形態計とは" with the quotation marks included?

You'll get two references that both make it clear it's just saying that all employment status categories (often translated as "employment types") are aggregated for the industry-specific hourly wage calculation, i.e. the hourly wage used is for all categories of workers (full-time, part-time, etc.) in the aggregate.

So 就業形態計 does not mean "by employment type"; it means "aggregated across all employment status categories" or "aggregated across all employment types," meaning full-time and part-time workers are all aggregated into a single population for the purpose of calculating industry-specific hourly wage here. 

"By employment type" would be 就業形態別, which is a different concept. So the AI explanations and translations are all wrong in this regard. 

Just to finish off the question, 産業計 is referring to the aggregation across industries, i.e. the Laspeyres index used covers all of the industries and the industries are weighted. So you're probably looking at a number like 104, which will just mean a 4% increase in hourly wages in the aggregate across all industries (weighted) and all employment types (aggregated) relative to the hourly wages in the base period.

You can see why the above distinctions might be relevant by glancing over this: https://www.jtuc-rengo.or.jp/activity/roudou/shuntou/2024/wage_report/wage_report_summary.pdf?17

 Go to 3-3: 

For example, the nominal indices are generally above 100 when calculating "by" employment type but below 100 when calculating in the aggregate. The paper indicates the reason for this being that part-time workers have increased their proportion of the total, bringing the overall index down. 

Needless to say, the AI translations of "by employment type" would squash this crucial distinction. Hope my long-winded point is clear :-)

Kevin Johnson
Osaka

[Richard Sadowsky]

Kevin Johnson proves how field-specific knowledge is far superior to the approximations that LLM-based AI can come up with...again. Thanks.

Richard Sadowsky

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[Dan Kanagy]

Thank you, Motohiro, Richard, and Kevin. That was very helpful.

Dan Kanagy

[Dan Kanagy]

Thank you, Motohiro, Richard, and Kevin. You were very helpful.

Dan Kanagy

[Dan Kanagy]

[Dan Kanagy]

That's odd. My replies to the list are taking two to three days to show up. Is anyone else experiencing similar delays? This reply I'm sending directly from Google Group's web interface, so there should be no delay.

Dan Kanagy

[John Stroman]

Dan,

I don't know if this makes any difference, but I'm in the US and get the mailing list via a gmail account in Chrome. On average it takes about 30 seconds for my posts to appear on the list and get forwarded to Outlook on my desktop PC running WIN 10.

John Stroman

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